Bitcoin: "Maybe Is a Partial Store of Value"

[Kyraishi]

This is a little bit funny. While admitting that Bitcoin can be a store of value -- at least partially -- Mr Roubini remains adamant on his old position against Bitcoin, in other words nothing has changed despite his admission which can just be influenced by people he was with in that conference. Well, as they are saying, there will always be two sides to the coin and in any human innovations there will be people whose role is to warn of possible impeding doom if we continue the change we are into. I have a great respect for this man because he is actually making some sense in many areas and I think we should also give space for people like him as their inputs can still be useful. However, don't get me wrong, it does not mean we have to follow what he is saying.

I feel like this is when someone finally realised they are incorrect, but they are still trying to stick to their old opinion and not sound weak.

He clearly understands the currency a lot more, and I'd argue that he knows bitcoin is a store of value, but the problem is, he'd rather not make a public 180 turn on his previous turn, there is no term for a "partial store of value".

depends on the users .  if he mainly use his btc for investing then he can honestly say that btc is a store of value ( 100% or full ) but for those who only use btc for both use ex. for 50 % for investing and 50% for paying and buying then he can also say that btc is a partial store of value . actually there are few simillar threads like this but they are comparing gold if what is a better store of value

It's still a store of value then, otherwise, you wouldn't be able to spend a currency that has no value. An item being a payment method doesn't mean it can be a store of value.

[Sithara007]

"a partial store of value"? I think it is neither entirely true nor completely false.
because it depends on each person's thoughts. like me, I just see bitcoin as a trading tool and it's not something valuable for me to hold it.
And for long-term investors who believe in the future of bitcoin, they will buy it and store it in a cold wallet and see it as an intangible asset.

Well... Bitcoin exchange rates went down by 85% in 2008. This does not happen to assets which we consider as usage as "store of value", such as gold and platinum. If gold loses 85% of its value in 12 months, then it will be no longer considered as a store of value. Because when an asset is classified as store of value, it means that the holder can exchange it for fiat currency at any point of time, without incurring a significant loss. Bitcoin is a very good asset for speculative investment. But IMO it can't be used as a store of value.

[Wintersoldier]

Bitcoin existed as a store of value, and further when it gained more and more value it got used as a transition medium. From my understanding it is completely a store of value. Quoting the scalability, and lack of mainstream usage it was mentioned as partial store of value. Everything won't get such a level of growth, it takes time. On such a thought process I believe in future everyone will realize it a complete store of value.

Considering bitcoin as a tool for transition of will not be even possible since bitcoin is very unstable and when huge population adopt to it as their main cryptocurrency, economy will collapse as market prices of goods, services and every transaction will not have a consistent basis, not everone will know how much each transaction will be without comparing the value to fiats.

[BitHodler]

If gold loses 85% of its value in 12 months, then it will be no longer considered as a store of value. 

I'm not sure if you have followed gold's performance throughout the last years, but it had a terrible crash from $1.9k back to $1k, where today the price of gold is hovering around the $1.5k mark.

If you put the gold and Bitcoin charts side by side, you'll see how similar the price activity actually is.... the important difference is that cycles within Bitcoin play out much faster than they do within the gold market.

I don't know when gold will take out its $1.9k high.... its recent price surge was due to economical turmoil, which means that when the situation calms down again, gold will be sold off hard.

[Suslived]

Personally, I wouldn't take seriously anything that comes out of Nouriel Roubini's mouth. He's just riding on the popularity of bitcoin and playing the role of antagonist just to increase his fame and popularity. However, if you take a closer look, his arguments are always non-sense and only serve to prove how ignorant he is about the actual workings behind crypto and blockchain.

Thats just my opinion tho, also bitcoin is a great store of value.

[Sithara007]

If gold loses 85% of its value in 12 months, then it will be no longer considered as a store of value. 

I'm not sure if you have followed gold's performance throughout the last years, but it had a terrible crash from $1.9k back to $1k, where today the price of gold is hovering around the $1.5k mark.

Yes... I have charts with me which track the gold prices for the last 150 years. And since gold is a long term asset, we should not be looking at these short-term variations. If you check the charts of gold over the last 150 years, it is clear that that particular asset have been successful in maintaining its purchasing power over the years. It is true that the prices fell from $1,800 per oz to $1,200 per oz. But before that, gold was priced somewhere around $600 per oz, and the current price is close to $1,500 per oz (which is just 20% lower than the ATH level).

[NathanJB]

Bitcoin is partly a currency at the same time partly a store of value. Bitcoin has transformed into different things depending on the way people take it. Bitcoin is also viewed by others as securities at the same time a digital gold. Others treat Bitcoin as a speculative asset. After several years, Bitcoin has deviated a lot from the original Bitcoin according to the whitepaper of Satoshi Nakamoto. This is not totally bad for me for as long as it remains a currency more than any other.

[toast]

Bitcoin is partly a currency at the same time partly a store of value. Bitcoin has transformed into different things depending on the way people take it. Bitcoin is also viewed by others as securities at the same time a digital gold. Others treat Bitcoin as a speculative asset. After several years, Bitcoin has deviated a lot from the original Bitcoin according to the whitepaper of Satoshi Nakamoto. This is not totally bad for me for as long as it remains a currency more than any other.

investing in crypto currencies has many ways and it all depends on the investors themselves with the belief they are entitled to choose a way to invest and maybe in conditions like now investors must be clever in utilizing every opportunity to invest in crypto currencies and each choice will certainly bring benefits.

[fullhdpixel]

At first btc was considered as store of value and investment option by all but slowly when it grows and more people start adopting btc it became the medium of exchange and transacting business with its help and it was integral part of its growth and it became partial store of value but it is similar to fiat and other currencies in many ways.

I don’t think that bitcoin was even initially deigned to serve mainly as store of value, the main purpose of bitcoin was to serve as payment of process, but it was overtime that people begin to see it as an asset that can increase for them overtime, which they started to accept it as store of value gradually, but this was not supposed to be the main reason why we should use bitcoin.

The main purpose of bitcoin that satoshi created is really this peer to peer payment system, that would give people lots of independence on their financial transaction, but as we take this, it is meant to start having its second benefit as store of value, which I am sure that till bitcoin becomes a little bit stable before we can actually start seeing this reflect in the market.

[kooboat]

Bitcoin has faced a lot of criticism in the past and present times but it is still dominating all digital currencies. The dream and mission of bitcoin still lives on in spite of the many critics from economic experts across the globe. Looking at major achievement in the world of economy, there has never been a successful story that faced no challenges or critics.

[alyssa85]

If gold loses 85% of its value in 12 months, then it will be no longer considered as a store of value. 

I'm not sure if you have followed gold's performance throughout the last years, but it had a terrible crash from $1.9k back to $1k, where today the price of gold is hovering around the $1.5k mark.

If you put the gold and Bitcoin charts side by side, you'll see how similar the price activity actually is.... the important difference is that cycles within Bitcoin play out much faster than they do within the gold market.

I don't know when gold will take out its $1.9k high.... its recent price surge was due to economical turmoil, which means that when the situation calms down again, gold will be sold off hard.

If you look at the charts going further back, gold also had a collapse in the 1990's:

https://www.thebalance.com/gold-price-history-3305646

By 1980, traders had bid the price of gold to $594.92 as a hedge against double-digit inflation. The Fed ended inflation with double-digit interest rates but caused a recession. Gold dropped to $410 per ounce and remained in that general trading range until 1996 when it dropped to $288 per ounce in response to steady economic growth.

Given that house prices are about 10 times what they were in 1980, then gold really hasn't kept it's value compared to 1980.

[huu78]

Such a junction of arguments above where the financial crisis is not merely an eye and behind by Crypto. I think Crypto makes my life and people better than ever and it makes crypto very useful for the future even though some people don't argue like this. In Crypto, there is certainly a name of profit and loss we can not resist the sustenance which we can later on. So if talking about a future crisis maybe just an expert who can explain more in than I do.

[jseverson]

If gold loses 85% of its value in 12 months, then it will be no longer considered as a store of value. 

I'm not sure if you have followed gold's performance throughout the last years, but it had a terrible crash from $1.9k back to $1k, where today the price of gold is hovering around the $1.5k mark.

Yes... I have charts with me which track the gold prices for the last 150 years. And since gold is a long term asset, we should not be looking at these short-term variations. If you check the charts of gold over the last 150 years, it is clear that that particular asset have been successful in maintaining its purchasing power over the years. It is true that the prices fell from $1,800 per oz to $1,200 per oz. But before that, gold was priced somewhere around $600 per oz, and the current price is close to $1,500 per oz (which is just 20% lower than the ATH level).

Shouldn't we also be looking at Bitcoin as a long term asset though?

I'm not arguing that it looks unfit to be a store of value, because it fluctuates a lot more than you'd want it to. It's bound to be more stable as the market grows though, and we're actually seeing improvements on that end in recent months, outside some wild swings here and there.

Most people who refer to Bitcoin as a store of value are in it for the long game, and aren't really fazed by the short fluctuations. It serves a very niche portion of the population at the moment, but it does work for that niche. Things are only going to be better.

[Cnut237]

I'm not arguing that it looks unfit to be a store of value, because it fluctuates a lot more than you'd want it to. It's bound to be more stable as the market grows though, and we're actually seeing improvements on that end in recent months, outside some wild swings here and there.

Most people who refer to Bitcoin as a store of value are in it for the long game, and aren't really fazed by the short fluctuations. It serves a very niche portion of the population at the moment, but it does work for that niche. Things are only going to be better.

Totally agree that at the moment it is not a very good store of value because of the price fluctuations, and also agree that things will improve and the volatility will fade as the market matures.
But I would say it is a store of value right now, otherwise why are people holding it? It is a store of value that currently has some big problems that will be resolved in the longer-term, but it is still a store of value.

[Jating]

Is there such a thing called "partial store of value", it's either bitcoin is being used as SoV or not, there's no middle grounds there.

The thing is that this kind of debates has been on-going for many years now and actually people are seeing bitcoin as good leverage, hence store of value. That's why the term HODL came up, because early bagholders chooses not to sell a single bit of their coins because they know that the price could shoot up in the future, and it did at the end of 2017.

[zhekinsp]

I'm not arguing that it looks unfit to be a store of value, because it fluctuates a lot more than you'd want it to. It's bound to be more stable as the market grows though, and we're actually seeing improvements on that end in recent months, outside some wild swings here and there.

Most people who refer to Bitcoin as a store of value are in it for the long game, and aren't really fazed by the short fluctuations. It serves a very niche portion of the population at the moment, but it does work for that niche. Things are only going to be better.

Totally agree that at the moment it is not a very good store of value because of the price fluctuations, and also agree that things will improve and the volatility will fade as the market matures.
But I would say it is a store of value right now, otherwise why are people holding it? It is a store of value that currently has some big problems that will be resolved in the longer-term, but it is still a store of value.

It could be a store of value in future but at the moment people who were holding it are in highly risk of losing their asset value any time,if there were here for long time and made lot more profits than how much they invested then it will be okay for them to lose but new investors needs to be very careful that is why long term is more suggested.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

you should stop listening to what mass media has to say about something that you are confident about. Manipulators are everywhere. You need to weed out the one that you dont need and keep your eyes on the prize.

You got that right--I don't know what this guy's agenda is, or if he even really has one, but he's not entirely wrong. 

What is a good store of value?  Dunno, to me it means something you own that at least holds its value in the face of inflation.  Everyone always says gold & silver are stores of value, and that might be true for certain periods of time, but it's not always true.  I don't think there really is an ideal store of value unless it's some financial instrument that was created to keep pace with inflation.  Treasury bonds are supposed to do that--but you have to trust the government.

And bitcoin?  I've never thought of it as a safe-haven asset or a true store of value.  That value is constantly changing, and the volatility is freakin' notorious.  If it ever became stable, it might be able to store some value but as it is it's a huge gamble.  Anyway.  It's a gamble that I fell in love with, so I'm not knocking bitcoin by any means.

[BartS]

Is there such a thing called "partial store of value", it's either bitcoin is being used as SoV or not, there's no middle grounds there.

The thing is that this kind of debates has been on-going for many years now and actually people are seeing bitcoin as good leverage, hence store of value. That's why the term HODL came up, because early bagholders chooses not to sell a single bit of their coins because they know that the price could shoot up in the future, and it did at the end of 2017.

Even if we were to assume that bitcoin is a partial store of value then we need to question what kind of function other currencies can have.

Using that kind of standard then this means that gold is a partial store of value as well because as we know its price can go up and down, and what about fiat? Fiat doesn't even reach that standard, if anything fiat is a sure way to lose your wealth over time and yet you do not hear that from economists.

[FanEagle]

Next stop would be "bitcoin could be awesome but I still think it will go down to zero" or something, how could you still believe that something will go down to zero when you believe it has a partial store of value? I mean if it can store value that means it can't go down. It is like saying "this is a rare painting of van gogh, there is no other one like it, it is very valuable and whoever buys it could store it and sell it for a lot higher in the future, I think it will worth zero one day".

Do you realize how idiotic that sounded? Like really, HOW idiotic that sounds, well this dude sounds as moronic as that sentence if not more. Bitcoin is a digital commodity that has a store of value and a way of spending it as well that rivals anything ever in history of mankind and can't go down that much.

[TheUltraElite]

And bitcoin?  I've never thought of it as a safe-haven asset or a true store of value.  That value is constantly changing, and the volatility is freakin' notorious.  If it ever became stable, it might be able to store some value but as it is it's a huge gamble.  Anyway.  It's a gamble that I fell in love with, so I'm not knocking bitcoin by any means.

Volatility is there with stocks and commodities too. It did not make bitcoin any different but the good thing about bitcoin is its deflationary supply and decentralization which makes it a somewhat safer than those controlled by banks and government organizations. Again it is correct that no "store of value" is prefect, they all have their pros and cons.

Hence it becomes a personal opinion. But not to mention what J Dimon did last to last year and bought bitcoin at a low price. The dumpers literally gave away their coins to his employees by selling at low. Therefore any opinionated article should be chuckled at and not taken seriously.