Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff

[ecnalubma]

Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.   

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.   

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

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[mu_enrico]

Peter Schiff is a gold bug, not an economist
About the manipulation stuff, yes, it is a legit concern since many exchanges are not regulated. Economists like to echo the "95% of reported bitcoin trading volume is fake" article. Hence, we will have this debate over and over if the situation doesn't change, i.e., not all (major) market regulated.

Trying to guess what caused the pump or the dump is useless in this "mixed" market since there is severe asymmetric information in the inefficient market.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Yawn. When are people going to stop listening to Schiff?

In October 2012, when gold was around $1,700 he said it was going to $5,000 within 2 years: https://www.cnbc.com/id/49550053. Not only did it not hit $5,000, but it never went higher than the $1,700 it was when he made his prediction. In fact, all gold did over the next two years was slowly lose value down to around $1,200.

In December 2015, having been proved monumentally wrong, he made the same prediction that gold was heading for $5,000: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/17/gold-is-still-going-to-5000-peter-schiff.html. Now, 4 years on from that, again not only has gold not hit $5,000, but it has never gone higher than the $1,700 it was when he made his original prediction 7 years ago, and is currently sitting around $1,500.

Having been proved completely wrong again, earlier this year he made the same prediction yet again: https://schiffgold.com/videos/peter-schiff-gold-will-go-much-higher-than-5000-video/. Let's see how that turns out for him.

Looking at his predictions for bitcoin, in July last year when bitcoin was around $6,000, he said bitcoin was heading for $1,000 and would then collapse entirely: https://hacked.com/peter-schiff-tells-joe-rogan-bitcoin-price-will-hit-1000/. Needless to say we never came close to $1,000, and yet again the exact opposite of what he has predicted has happened, and we are up 50% from when he made his prediction.

Even last month he said we had hit a "major top" and were rapidly heading for $4,000: https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1176577713412419589. Yet again, wrong.

He is so completely invested in gold that he rubbishes anything and everything that isn't gold, and refuses to see past his catalogue of errors. I would hate to think what his returns over the last decade have been since he is so consistently wrong all the time. If you did the exact opposite of what he said over the last 10 years, you would be sitting on a nice profit.

TL;DR: If Schiff says bitcoin is going to collapse, that makes me bullish.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

Since 2011 I've heard the same goddamn argument about the precious metals market.  Everything is being manipulated, blah blah blah.  And exactly how these "deep-pocketed whales" do the manipulation, or why, or who they are will always remain a mystery--just like any BS conspiracy theory.

If you think the game is rigged, you shouldn't play.  I happen to think that the bitcoin market isn't any more or less manipulated by people with huge amounts of money than any other market I've got some money invested in.  Sure, those anonymous whales could drive the price up and down depending on how much dough they're willing to risk, but ultimately we don't know that this is what's happening.  At all.

I never listened to Schiff in the first place, but he's become somewhat an object of scorn for me over the years.  If you're constantly telling people it's a great idea to invest in something regardless of what it's doing or what it's prospects are (talkin' about gold here), you're either bat-shit crazy or a knave, trying to deceive people.  Sadly a lot of goldbugs do exactly that.  So screw Schiff and his comments on crypto.

TL;DR: If Schiff says bitcoin is going to collapse, that makes me bullish.

I don't know about that.  He'll probably say it whether we should be bullish or not.  I think it's best just to tune him out altogether.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't know about that.  He'll probably say it whether we should be bullish or not.

Well, since I don't day trade, the time scales I tend to think in are years rather than days or weeks, and so I'm pretty much permanently bullish about bitcoin on a several year timescale. And since Schiff is a perma-bear on everything that isn't gold, there's so far been a 100% correlation between him being bearish on bitcoin and me being bullish on bitcoin.

But you're right, and I do generally ignore everything he says. His name just keeps popping up on this forum every month or two, so it's always useful to point out that he ignores the facts and has just said the same thing on repeat for 10 years despite being constantly wrong.

[avikz]

Any market that is not regulated, is prone to manipulation! Crypto market is also not beyond the reach of such risk! Especially when cryptos don't have much real world applications, majority of the cryptos are being used either in gambling or in trading! That's how the market and its participants are surviving! And the fluctuation jn price actually provides lot of opportunities to a trader to make profit if he/she knows how to play it right! But you know, loosers will always complain!

If you really want to thrive in crypto economy, you must cut down listening to all type of speculations from different people. Stay focused and use your own brain!

[alyssa85]

This reminds me of December 2017 and January 2018 - loads of "important people" like Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan popped up to say bitcoin was a bubble and it was about to crash and so on.

Turns out they all had shorts in place and were talking their book.

When the crash finally happened, they popped up again to say they were making bitcoin investing available to their clients.

Bottom line: these types of people are always talking their book. Always ask what their agenda is. They're not making these statements because they care about the little people.

[BChydro]

Since 2011 I've heard the same goddamn argument about the precious metals market.  Everything is being manipulated, blah blah blah.  And exactly how these "deep-pocketed whales" do the manipulation, or why, or who they are will always remain a mystery--just like any BS conspiracy theory.

The whales in the market is a mystery that no one can figure out and you will hear about them only when you see a massive rally or correction in the market and yet no one can figure out the so called ghosts in the market  . Everyone likes a good conspiracy theory and the flash market movement are still a mystery and during those time the magical whales will be blamed for the movement because it is impossible to figure out the real reason .

[o_e_l_e_o]

They're not making these statements because they care about the little people.

Bingo.

Big players use their influence to manipulate the market to improve their own position, and yet every time they do, people fall for it. Peter Schiff, who is all in on gold, says bitcoin is a bubble and people should sell and buy gold instead. Well, color me shocked! Big bankers, whose fortune depends on the fiat system, warn people not to buy bitcoin. Well I never!

These people with an audience of thousands or even millions use their influence for their own gain. They don't care about the weak hands losing money - in fact, they are counting on it, so they can profit. Stop doing what they want you to.

[gantez]

Always ask what their agenda is. They're not making these statements because they care about the little people.

Haha... Always about personal gains. That is also an economic strategy but in crypto business, is kind of, spread the fud/fear and wait for a drop to scoop. Is unfortunate that hodlers will keep failing. For my view, hodlings in bitcoin is safer so I won't buy into such trick.

[Harlot]

Aren't we all know this by now that the market is indeed manipulated by whales for their own liking? One of the reasons why we have a very volatile market is because we are under in heavy manipulation from whales and even news. Not only are they doing this during profit taking but also in accumulation of the cryptocurrencies when it has bottomed out. In fact from the news I have seen is they never had sold their position when BTC was in the bearish market for a while and they hodl it until it rise back up again. With the heavy influence of the position of the whales have we are in fact at their mercy always and we can't really do anything about that. But pretty soon whales won't be happy about this price levels anymore and I think they will strive for BTC to achieve onto a all new ath in the future

[figmentofmyass]

Peter Schiff, who is all in on gold, says bitcoin is a bubble and people should sell and buy gold instead. Well, color me shocked!

i don't think his primary aim with these prognostications is to get people to sell bitcoin. it's to keep his flock from straying.

he knows that bitcoin's monetary properties are attractive to gold bugs---it's a direct competitor on the store-of-value front. he's got a loyal following (many of whom are customers of his gold brokerage) and he's terrified of losing them.

he uses fear of monetary loss to persuade people to exit fiat and buy gold. in the same way, he uses it to persuade his followers against exiting gold to buy bitcoin.

[ashmodeus]

Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.   

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.   

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

of course, whoever he is, I totally agree with such statements.
but about this one :
"The whales must make sure the hodlers don't lose faith and cash out so that they can cash in!"
i disagree about this statement, it seems like propaganda for me.

[deisik]

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

What would you really expect from this guy given his background?

Peter Schiff seems to be a famous gold bug advocating possession of physical gold:

I have long recommended that investors put aside 5-10% of their portfolios in physical precious metals. But I was troubled to hear stories of my clients getting swindled by dishonest gold dealers

So now it is because of dishonest gold dealers that gold has been massively underperfoming last years (or so it feels). Okay then. But let's not be too hard on him. It is difficult to maintain your composure when you see Bitcoin rising from "rags to riches", metaphorically speaking, in less than no time, while gold couldn't even beat the US dollar inflation during the last 40 years or so (you will remember that Dimon dude from JPMorgan). Gold is likely the best investment option if you want to preserve your wealth (well, maybe at some small expense but still), but when it comes to multiplying it (since this is what most of us are looking for), gold is definitely not an investment of choice

[Wexnident]

Yawn. When are people going to stop listening to Schiff?

You'd expect him to be the guy that says "Don't say I told you so" after one corrct predictions from the hunded fails he had. He's famous though, in the opposite way that was supposed to be. Listening to his predictions and doing the opposite of them could net you in some profit.

Gold is likely the best investment option if you want to preserve your wealth (well, maybe at some small expense but still), but when it comes to multiplying it (since this is what most of us are looking for), gold is definitely not an investment of choice

Yep. Even banks would like to fall into gold when a market crashes. Sadly, it's because of this, this attribute of gold which still constantly holds a steady value that makes it a good source to fall back into.
But sadly, its pretty difficult for the old to defeat the new. BTC was pretty fresh in the eyes and a lot accepted it, so naturally, it would exceed the ones before it.

[Webetcoins]

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

Since 2011 I've heard the same goddamn argument about the precious metals market.  Everything is being manipulated, blah blah blah.  And exactly how these "deep-pocketed whales" do the manipulation, or why, or who they are will always remain a mystery--just like any BS conspiracy theory.

If you think the game is rigged, you shouldn't play.  I happen to think that the bitcoin market isn't any more or less manipulated by people with huge amounts of money than any other market I've got some money invested in.  Sure, those anonymous whales could drive the price up and down depending on how much dough they're willing to risk, but ultimately we don't know that this is what's happening.  At all.

I never listened to Schiff in the first place, but he's become somewhat an object of scorn for me over the years.  If you're constantly telling people it's a great idea to invest in something regardless of what it's doing or what it's prospects are (talkin' about gold here), you're either bat-shit crazy or a knave, trying to deceive people.  Sadly a lot of goldbugs do exactly that.  So screw Schiff and his comments on crypto.

TL;DR: If Schiff says bitcoin is going to collapse, that makes me bullish.

I don't know about that.  He'll probably say it whether we should be bullish or not.  I think it's best just to tune him out altogether.

I am not going to believe anyone, even the creator of bitcoin if he appears from somewhere and says that bitcoin will collapse. Only those who lack knowledge and cannot see the future can pass such comments. If ever, bitcoin was some bubble, it would have cared less about making millionaires. This digital currency is the future of money, staying in this world longer than most of us will.

[blckhawk]

It could be. The thing about these whales is that they're unpredictable and can do artificial pumps and dumps whenever they please. However, during these pumps, it could also have induced FOMO and brought in a surge of demand that further increased the prices. These scenarios can't be stopped from happening since no regulation ever exists. And looking at the charts and the current scenario, there's not much really happening that could trigger another demand increase 'naturally', thus explains why the prices are gradually going down since people who opened from $7k range are starting to sell rather than lose more.

[hello_good_sir]

Price manipulation happens in all investments though, just because crypto-currencies are a new decentralized version of money, doesn't mean the market is regulated enough to stop this.

Insider trading and price manipulations, as well as dumping share purposely, etc, all occur in the real stock market. Market manipulation from whales happens in the crypto market, so both sides have ways to change the market.

[mu_enrico]

Schiff is a perma-bear on everything that isn't gold

Peter Schiff, who is all in on gold, says bitcoin is a bubble and people should sell and buy gold instead.

Peter Schiff seems to be a famous gold bug advocating possession of physical gold:

^^Sum up of Peter Schiff reputation

By the way, I just realized there are "levels" of gold bug, just like bitcoin:

Gold bugs fall on a spectrum. Mild gold bugs may keep a hedge in gold and increase holdings in times of volatility. Using gold as a preferred safe haven has worked in many challenging markets, and gold bugs of this type can hardly be faulted for having a preference. In fact, in high value portfolios holdings of gold and other precious metals can make sense from a diversification perspective. On the extreme end, however, gold bugs obsession with gold often has more to do with distrusting the modern banking system than trying to protect the value of a diversified portfolio.

Source: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goldbug.asp

I think Peter Schiff is a gold maximalist (the extreme end). His logic:
- Interest rate up > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis
- Interest rate down > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis
- Interest rate unchanged > bad for the economy > market crash > economic crisis

[Strongkored]

Just look at the history of his predictions, of all the only predictions about the economic recession that occured in 2008 that really happened the rest is just nonsense especially about BTC, and it seems he is just a BTC haters who constantly make bad statements about BTC and Crypto to bring investment funds in BTC turn to gold.
Manipulation is always there not only in the BTC or Crypto market as well as in the gold market too, news for reference https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2019/05/20/yes-gold-is-being-manipulated-but-to-what-extent/#425548062865