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Author Topic: Impeachment: Is Greg Maxwell the best choice for being a mod in bitcointalk?  (Read 369 times)
aliashraf
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November 01, 2019, 07:20:08 AM
Last edit: November 01, 2019, 07:39:51 AM by aliashraf
 #1

Hi,
I'm not starting this to attack Gregory Maxwell, on the contrary, it is about praising him.

Gregory Maxwell is a techno/political icon and a legend. He has full rights to be biased in favor of or against any single topic in the bitcoin ecosystem, actually, he should be biased, otherwise, who is in charge of taking care of hypes, FUDs and scams?

My point is, such a figure doesn't need any authority in this forum to do his job as a think tank, and this forum doesn't need a biased moderator on the other side.

I understand; bitcoin is money and money was born with blood on his hands but believe it or not, bitcoin needs to evolve and nobody is in charge of its evolution path, it is not Ethereum, there is no Foundation and no Vitalik neither any stupid roadmap in bitcoin because it is not a project. It needs space and opportunity for divergent ideas and out of the box thinking.

I don't want to go to the details and put forward how Greg's biased point of view is affecting his job as a forum moderator, it would be absolutely unnecessary, it is not about this or that evidence supporting or refuting my concerns, it is about a general situation we are dealing with: a conflict of interests.


Hereby, I officially ask Gregory Maxwell to step down from his moderation positions in this forum.

Edit: I'm not and won't be campaigning for this to happen, please don't terrorize me or try to make me quite. I have no plan to argue about what I said and won't answer stupid attacks by shills.
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November 01, 2019, 08:05:59 AM
Merited by AdolfinWolf (1)
 #2

Let me get this straight:

1. You won't provide any evidence of why he is a biased moderator, and

2. You refuse to explain yourself any further.

That's not really a strategy for winning over minds.

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November 01, 2019, 08:18:16 AM
 #3

I don't want to go to the details and put forward how Greg's biased point of view is affecting his job as a forum moderator, it would be absolutely unnecessary, it is not about this or that evidence supporting or refuting my concerns, it is about a general situation we are dealing with: a conflict of interests.



Without going too far into any of these pesky "details" that you're so against going into, would you care to explain what specifically you think Gregory Maxwell's professional interests are, and how they are in conflict?

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November 01, 2019, 08:29:44 AM
 #4

I don't want to go to the details and put forward how Greg's biased point of view is affecting his job as a forum moderator, it would be absolutely unnecessary, it is not about this or that evidence supporting or refuting my concerns

I don't want to go into details either, I don't want to come with evidence that are clearly supporting my point of view and refuting your concerns as I deem it all unnecessary, but I ask you officially to .....stop!

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November 01, 2019, 08:43:57 AM
 #5

Just a quick and short entry here.

It's just a forum and Theymos and Cyrus own it, they decide who will be a moderator, so basically there are no public ellections, you can't impeach anyone, the only way is to convince the admins that he is on the wrong way, but I really doubt they will bite it.

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November 01, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
 #6

Hereby, I officially ask Gregory Maxwell to step down from his moderation positions in this forum.

Edit: I'm not and won't be campaigning for this to happen, please don't terrorize me or try to make me quite. I have no plan to argue about what I said and won't answer stupid attacks by shills.
Honestly, i am not even sure what the purpose of this post is. You are trying to show that you are not against Gregory Maxwell and yet you seem to be against him in other parts of the post... Basically it's just a mixture of emotions. Maybe because you are scared of a backlash or something like that.

My point is why even bother making such a post on Meta if you are not ready to produce more details about your claims?

If you are also not ready to get different reactions from people then i don't think posting in Meta was a clever idea. Maybe PMing Gregory Maxwell asking him to step down would be a much better idea... right?

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November 01, 2019, 10:13:23 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), nutildah (1)
 #7

Lemme guess, he banned franky from dev'n'tech because he talks a load of crap. He rubbished anonymint to the ground because he talks a load of crap. You are worried you'll be next because oh yes you talk a load of crap.
Instead of looking to get gmax to 'step down' why don't you take some action you can control, namely, stop talking (a load of crap) and start studying so that one day you can make a coherent argument.

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November 01, 2019, 10:31:02 AM
 #8

If you want Maxwell impeached as a forum moderator and at the same time you do not want to go into details as to why he should, neither do you want to deliberate with the community based on facts as to why he should step down.

Then I think you should send a private message to theymos, he is the only person who can act on such request, also you need to lock this thread because when you bring forth this sort of argument to the community, you need to go into details, argue on it and try to prove beyond reasonable doubts the facts you'd have presented, but obviously you've presented none.

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November 01, 2019, 10:37:39 AM
 #9

conflict of interests

From what I know, Greg's interest's are basically the same as the interests of any honest Bitcoiner.
So going by your logic no honest Bitcoiner would be OK for the moderator tasks.

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November 01, 2019, 11:26:21 AM
 #10

Hereby, I officially ask Gregory Maxwell to step down from his moderation positions in this forum.

Edit: I'm not and won't be campaigning for this to happen



Hmm... Something is a bit fishy.
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November 01, 2019, 11:30:22 AM
 #11

How can you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even get to the point? How's that different from trolling?

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November 01, 2019, 11:40:30 AM
 #12

I don't want to go to the details and put forward how Greg's biased point of view is affecting his job as a forum moderator, it would be absolutely unnecessary, it is not about this or that evidence supporting or refuting my concerns, it is about a general situation we are dealing with: a conflict of interests.
Without going too far into any of these pesky "details" that you're so against going into, would you care to explain what specifically you think Gregory Maxwell's professional interests are, and how they are in conflict?
For Your (and other users posted above) Information:
I'm not campaigning for "moderacy" neither any "liberal" party in this site and more importantly: I have no time for such stuff. I just said what I think everybody is already aware of:
Gregory Maxwell is the lead developer of the client software that is, almost exclusively, used in bitcoin, he has enough power to follow his visions and philosophy both personally because of his expertise and socially because of his social capital. He doesn't need a moderation position in this forum to do or not to do anything about bitcoin.

On the other hand, Bitcointalk is not the official site of Gregory Maxwell neither a representative of his visions. Reserving "bitcoin" brand for the legacy/not-forked blockchain with its huge market share is best practice and has nothing to do with any biased moderation policy in this site, IMO and it is the most favor bitcointalk could and have ever done for Core devs, i.e. Nothing!

So, bitcointalk shouldn't look like being "their site" because it is not! It is what Greg understands and puts him in a bad situation: Every move he makes as a moderator in this site is considered a political move and he needs to re-think it over and over. It is not good for Maxwell neither for bitcointalk.


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November 01, 2019, 12:09:39 PM
 #13

I thought Linus was the lead dev.

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November 01, 2019, 12:21:28 PM
 #14

conflict of interests

From what I know, Greg's interest's are basically the same as the interests of any honest Bitcoiner.
So going by your logic no honest Bitcoiner would be OK for the moderator tasks.

Bitcoin is not a sect and there is no such thing in the universe: a sect named honest Bitcoiners.

Bitcoin is ways more decentralized in terms of culture than in technology(exclusive client software, pools, ASICs) it is because of divergence, without divergence, there would be no bitcoin ecosystem. Remember what you have been taught in high school and college, human beings and mother nature have paid enough for this lesson and it deserves to be taken as serious.

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November 01, 2019, 12:21:50 PM
 #15

I thought Linus was the lead dev.
I thought there was no lead dev  Huh

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November 01, 2019, 12:41:12 PM
 #16

Even if he's biased, I don't even think that's such a bad thing for a moderator on technical boards about Bitcoin on a forum about Bitcoin to be biased in favor of Bitcoin.

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November 01, 2019, 12:50:46 PM
 #17

If we adopted the rationale that developers can't be mods because it's a conflict of interests, we'd lose both mods of the Development and Technical sub.  Personally, I'd rather see devs in a mod position of that particular board, because they are best suited to know the difference between genuine technical discussion and "technobabble".

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November 01, 2019, 12:53:44 PM
Merited by aliashraf (2)
 #18

How can you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even get to the point? How's that different from trolling?

Where are you when we need you? Yes indeed if people refuse to drill down and have their opinions scrutinized but insist on still voicing them over and over as valid rebuttals it is TROLLING. Not that alia is a troll at all really, they are known to be quite a good poster by a few quality members. He is just painting in broad strokes right now, he likely will drill down eventually. Perhaps just testing the waters first.

In this case though, GM should likely not be removed as moderator since he seems to be only concerned with the tech based forums where his knowledge and skill is likely suitable and who else can really be in a position to moderate what is valuable and valueless noise. I mean surely that is the moderators job to ensure the valuable information (for the entire movement and all members) remains and the valueless and net negative junk removed.

Of course many mods are corrupted by their sigs, and keeping in with those that control those sigs and have influence over other rev streams and desirable positions. I don't see GM being one of those bottom feeders and requires no such back scratching.

The best thing may be to add an moderator with (equal skill level or as near too as possible) that has not such a strong incentive to push in one direction. Possibly a skilled developer that has been known to voice opposing views and pushing in a different direct to GM.  That could balance things up but could cause a few issues too.  In the tech areas ( arguably the most important area (well meta should be very important but is fucked beyond all help now)) one must tread carefully and with diplomacy. Extremely smart people can also be kind of super volatile also. I also notice super smart people tend to get super angry when confronted by other super smart people rather than your general bod who they feel are of no real threat.

I just don't see how you can sensibly moderate a forum optimally unless especially a tech specific forum without being one of the smartest and skilled people there. So how many other options do we have that are near that skill and knowledge level in the essential fields that have been known to take a different view to GM on certain things that is not instantly going to ensure both parties get upset and leave.

When you only have a very limited number of people that can push things forward in certain areas then it can be hard to replace them, so it takes a lot more consideration than replacing the drooling tourettes suffering morons that you can switch out on other boards with immediate net benefit.

To be fair, when previously a friend of ours spoke directly to him he seem pretty courteous and pretty clear minded even when in clear opposition to his point.  He seemed the sort of person that would totally explain and justify his actions. Of course that was one anecdotal experience. If you have others where you believe he is super heavy handed or the bias is net negative then you will need to present those instances for review. Specifics as always must be analysed before the correct action can be taken.

Perhaps bring anonymint back and make him a mod there with GM, he could fit the bill perfectly. I'll bring the pop corn. haha  or what about we throw craig into the mix for like the big brother celebrity edition. That should even things up. Then nobody else would need to even post, could just enjoy the tone and odd funny and clever insult here and there since the rest would be beyond the understanding of 99% of the other members.

No impeachment vote here for now. Since we carry such sway here with theymos,  that will obviously be a load off for GM.


edit - i see doomad already stolen my prime point, time travelling scoundrel.

 

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November 01, 2019, 12:55:30 PM
 #19

If we adopted the rationale that developers can't be mods because it's a conflict of interests, we'd lose both mods of the Development and Technical sub.  Personally, I'd rather see devs in a mod position of that particular board, because they are best suited to know the difference between genuine technical discussion and "technobabble".
I do agree. But Greg is too much of a dev and he is more usefull as a usual poster.
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November 01, 2019, 01:11:29 PM
 #20

there is no such thing in the universe: a sect named honest Bitcoiners.

Bitcoin is ways more decentralized in terms of culture than in technology(exclusive client software, pools, ASICs) it is because of divergence, without divergence, there would be no bitcoin ecosystem.

So you claim that there are no honest people and then write some unrelated blah-blah about people having divergences? Really?
I'll stop. You are definitely trolling and I won't feed the troll any longer.

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