Vietnamese Exchange BitcoinVN Is Seeking Investors For 12 New Bitcoin ATMs

[layer1gfx]

           

FOLLOW US
FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TELEGRAM | WEBSITE

Disclaimer:
This post has been created and published by layer1gfx on behalf of the company BitcoinVN for information purposes only.
To get involved as an investor please contact the company directly via the posted contact email.

[layer1gfx]

reserved for further announcements

[BTMBitcoinVN]

Announcement via Twitter:

https://twitter.com/BitcoinATMHCMC/status/1191248683007799297

[BTMBitcoinVN]

Announcement on official BTM page: https://btm.bitcoinvn.io/updates

And on official Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/BitcoinATMHCMC/

[layer1gfx]

Here is an interview with Vedran Kajic - a long-time crypto veteran and one of the Bitcoin pioneers in Croatia.
Back in 2016 he also became one of the investors who funded the first Bitcoin ATM in Vietnam.

Read the full interview on news.bitcoinvn.io

[Bttzed03]

May I ask why you want to push for this when the central bank and the government still do not recognize bitcoin as a legal payment method?

[BTMBitcoinVN]

May I ask why you want to push for this when the central bank and the government still do not recognize bitcoin as a legal payment method?

Dear Bttzed03,

That is a good & valid question!  

Currently Bitcoin ("Digital Assets") in Vietnam remain unregulated; the Ministry of Justice has been tasked since early 2018 with drafting&coordinating a regulatory draft proposal.
The initial date for the release was announced for summer 2019 - however, due to lack of urgency and the need for further industry consultations the draft release has been delayed until 2020.

The leadership of BitcoinVN has been regularly attending the industry workshops organized by the MoJ over the past two years and feels confident, that Vietnam will not chose the "China way" as a regulatory approach.

As for the payment methods: State Bank of Vietnam classified Bitcoin similar to Forex (like USD, EUR), Gold etc. and prohibited them to be used as payment method. There remain a few questions about this matter (e.g. it is possible to use USD-based credit cards - so possibly having merchant processor converting "Digital Assets" into VND might be a workaround; but grey area remains for now) regardless which will need further specification in the future.

While we can't fully exclude any future legal risks due to changes in regulations, it is currently not restricted to buy/sell/hodl Bitcoin in Vietnam. Limitations of it being used as "payment method" don't affect the main use case of these machines (to buy/sell Bitcoin); it might limit the use of the machines to pay for certain services (e.g. enable to use the bill payment functionalities via Bitcoin)

That said - since these machines are multi-purpose (they can be used as traditional bill payment kiosks) even a complete required shutdown of the Bitcoin functionalities of these machines would not make them "useless" (it would have an impact on the profitability/revenue, but the machines would still be able to generate $ with the other non-crypto functionalities).

I hope this answers your question sufficiently.  

[Bttzed03]

Thanks for the reply.

Where can I see the information about the postponement of the crypto draft regulation until 2020? I've been trying to look for an article  but I can't find one.

[BTMBitcoinVN]

Thanks for the reply.

Where can I see the information about the postponement of the crypto draft regulation until 2020? I've been trying to look for an article  but I can't find one.

That was direct information from the last workshop meeting with the responsible MoJ people in charge of the matter (took place in Hanoi in mid-September of this year and was attended by leading Vietnamese Crypto firms such as BitcoinVN, VCC Exchange etc.).

This information might not have been widely published though.

[Bttzed03]

That was direct information from the last workshop meeting with the responsible MoJ people in charge of the matter (took place in Hanoi in mid-September of this year and was attended by leading Vietnamese Crypto firms such as BitcoinVN, VCC Exchange etc.).

This information might not have been widely published though.

May I know when was that last workshop meeting?

[BTMBitcoinVN]

That was direct information from the last workshop meeting with the responsible MoJ people in charge of the matter (took place in Hanoi in mid-September of this year and was attended by leading Vietnamese Crypto firms such as BitcoinVN, VCC Exchange etc.).

This information might not have been widely published though.

May I know when was that last workshop meeting?

It's right in our previous reply you quoted  - Mid September this year in Hanoi; so almost 2 months ago.

[buwaytress]

Actually, this might get a lot more traction if you move it to Securities section. It's already got quite a bit more for due diligence than most other projects.

Since you've been around for a while, care to share some information on the money side of things? A simple annual financial statement for the 4 BTMs you have already. I didn't know it cost that much for a machine though! I'm only curious why people would choose a BTM when p2p like Localbitcoins is not restricted. BTMs are popular in US precisely because p2p isn't legal, but why Vietnam?

[Theb]

I've read some of your FAQs in your website and I have some concerns regarding on how you will process this in the foreseeable future legally speaking.

Are there any transaction limits?

BTMs do not have any transaction limits. Occasionally, BTM may automatically limit the order size (always notifying the customer beforehand) for orders larger than 50mil (buy) and 30mil (sell) due to technical reasons.

Do BTM require verification or KYC?

BitcoinVN, as the operator of the BTMs, does not require any verification or KYC on transactions executed via a BTM.

A mobile number is required for the operation of the BTM. It allows customers to

pre-sell cryptocurrencies online to reduce the wait time at the BTM and to
privately view links with the latest status of the transaction.

KYC process is something that a lot of countries with Bitcoin ATMs require for their users some do it not directly with the ATM itself but from a crypto wallet associated to them, if you don't have it now then expect that you will forcibly have one when the Vietnamese government starts to get more involve with the industry. Having transaction limits is also inevitable since it is a standard procedure for most country to issue limits as a precaution regarding AML procedures, think about the abuse your machines will have if a customer can literally have unlimited transactions with it. Yes it's good that you don't have KYC and transaction limits as of the moment but think about the potential legal issues you will have because of it.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

KYC process is something that a lot of countries with Bitcoin ATMs require for their users some do it not directly with the ATM itself but from a crypto wallet associated to them, if you don't have it now then expect that you will forcibly have one when the Vietnamese government starts to get more involve with the industry.

That's probably true, though if the government doesn't require it now there's no reason why the bitcoin ATM operator should ask for that information.  Don't do it until it's required, that's my take on it.

This is a great idea, and if I had a spare $5000 laying around I'd probably invest in the project.  I have kind of become a fan of bitcoin ATMs after discovering that there was one in my town (who knew!), even though it was malfunctioning when I tried to use it.  They offer an excellent way of buying bitcoin, even if the fees are generally high. 

The only issue I see with this succeeding in Vietnam is the problem of merchants accepting bitcoin.  Tourists were mentioned in the infographic, but bitcoin won't do them much good if they can't spend it, right?  And is it hard to convert foreign currency to whatever the local Vienamese one is?  I don't remember the name of it, my bad.  Tourists generally don't have a problem converting their money when they arrive in the country I would imagine.  But all that aside, good luck with this.

[BTMBitcoinVN]

Actually, this might get a lot more traction if you move it to Securities section. It's already got quite a bit more for due diligence than most other projects.

Since you've been around for a while, care to share some information on the money side of things? A simple annual financial statement for the 4 BTMs you have already. I didn't know it cost that much for a machine though! I'm only curious why people would choose a BTM when p2p like Localbitcoins is not restricted. BTMs are popular in US precisely because p2p isn't legal, but why Vietnam?

Thank you for the suggestion and the questions!

We are a private company and for competitive and other reasons we are not disclosing our financials publicly.

We believe we have actually managed to secure a very competitive price on the machines for the security and features they provide. Vietnam does not boast record low crime rates hence we take security seriously. Unfortunately many BTM manufacturers offer lightweight and compact machines which are not optimal for the environment we are operating in.

Our customers tend to have different reasons for why they've chosen to use our BTMs. For many people it's the convenience - a BTM offers the quickest way to convert between cryptocurrencies and cash, which is important in the cash-based Vietnamese economy. Many others trust our brand, customer service, and the reputation we've established in Vietnam, a country notorious for con artists in the cryptocurrency space, more than any other player in the market. From our inception in 2013, we have taken the more difficult road, where we prioritised reputation over uncountable short-term gain opportunities, which is one of our key sustainable competitive advantages as a company.

[BTMBitcoinVN]

KYC process is something that a lot of countries with Bitcoin ATMs require for their users some do it not directly with the ATM itself but from a crypto wallet associated to them, if you don't have it now then expect that you will forcibly have one when the Vietnamese government starts to get more involve with the industry.

That's probably true, though if the government doesn't require it now there's no reason why the bitcoin ATM operator should ask for that information.  Don't do it until it's required, that's my take on it.

This is a great idea, and if I had a spare $5000 laying around I'd probably invest in the project.  I have kind of become a fan of bitcoin ATMs after discovering that there was one in my town (who knew!), even though it was malfunctioning when I tried to use it.  They offer an excellent way of buying bitcoin, even if the fees are generally high. 

The only issue I see with this succeeding in Vietnam is the problem of merchants accepting bitcoin.  Tourists were mentioned in the infographic, but bitcoin won't do them much good if they can't spend it, right?  And is it hard to convert foreign currency to whatever the local Vienamese one is?  I don't remember the name of it, my bad.  Tourists generally don't have a problem converting their money when they arrive in the country I would imagine.  But all that aside, good luck with this.

Thank you for your comments. To add, as outlined in our previous messages, we have participated in and are open to further discussions with the legislative bodies. Currently we are complying with the legislative framework. Should it change, we are prepared to adapt our business in order to continue operating in line with the law. Our business model does not rely on BTMs being KYC-less.

One of the main, if not the main, use case for cryptocurrencies continues to be trading and international value transfer. This use case has already created a market large enough that it does not need merchants to accept bitcoin. Vietnam is placed #8 globally by the number of cryptocurrency traders and speculators even though paying for goods and services with cryptocurrencies has been illegal locally (trading cryptocurrencies is not prohibited though). Hence merchants accepting bitcoin would be strictly an upside scenario, on which we are not currently relying in our business model.

Regarding the comment on the tourists, it's more about convenience, security, and cost. Although tourists are free to exchange cash for the local currency, in practice it's highly cumbersome, given 1) limited acceptance and high cost of using a foreign credit card in Vietnam (so people prefer to rely on cash), 2) the need to withdraw home currency cash from the bank account, which often requires a visit to the branch, 3) need to pre-convert home currency to USD and bring the USD to Vietnam (creating a risk of theft as well of a hassle to declare it if bringing larger sums of money), 4) converting USD to Vietnam Dong at a high cost often (due to lack of transparency in this business dominated by jewellery stores), 5) having to do the inverse process for any left-over USD. Compare that to doing nothing in the home country, then once in Vietnam, just sending BTC from your wallet to BTM's wallet and withdrawing the cash directly.

[buwaytress]

BATMs -- or any machines really -- as you say, often not built for tropical climates like Vietnam (I worked and live in global south so I get this 100%). Humidity and heat drastically lowers performance and even lifespan. It is a high-risk country for fraud (and again I come from Southeast Asia so I know the risks!) -- have you had any incidents with your machines?

The tourist use case is very real also, but I still doubt tourists themselves have picked up enough on using BTC to reliably withdraw cash overseas but let's see this trend!

Thank you for the quick response. Do add this thread to Securities as I suggested, you might find more serious investors there. Edit: as I entered I saw it was already moved =)

[BTMBitcoinVN]

BATMs -- or any machines really -- as you say, often not built for tropical climates like Vietnam (I worked and live in global south so I get this 100%). Humidity and heat drastically lowers performance and even lifespan. It is a high-risk country for fraud (and again I come from Southeast Asia so I know the risks!) -- have you had any incidents with your machines?

The tourist use case is very real also, but I still doubt tourists themselves have picked up enough on using BTC to reliably withdraw cash overseas but let's see this trend!

Thank you for the quick response. Do add this thread to Securities as I suggested, you might find more serious investors there. Edit: as I entered I saw it was already moved =)

Thank you for your reasonable questions and suggestions. We will try our best to be as open in our responses as possible, but for competitive and other reasons we may limit our disclosure on this public forum.

We prefer to place the machines in air conditioned indoors locations. This not only reduces tear and wear but also provides enhanced security and privacy for our customers. The sun and heat can have a detrimental affect on the electronics, however this is mitigated by placing the machines under a shade in a well ventilated outdoors environment. We haven't seen any performance deterioration or signs of increased tear and wear in such locations.

Fraud is also an important consideration for us as mentioned earlier. We rely on a number of mitigating factors to minimise this risk, including placing the machines in secure indoors locations, partnering with BTM vendors offering excessively heavy machines produced using thick metal and advanced locks. We have not had any fraud incidents since 2016 with our current machines.

[layer1gfx]

In this video, Tai Zen chats with German bitcoin entrepreneur Dominik Weil about the unexpected risks & challenges of starting the 1st bitcoin exchange, running Bitcoin ATMs & organizing the Bitcoin Saigon Meetup in an exotic emerging market such as Vietnam, where crypto has very little rules:

Risk Takers #5 – Dominik Weil On Starting The 1st Bitcoin Exchange & Bitcoin Meetup In Vietnam

[layer1gfx]

John Riggins did an interview with Dominik Weil and Bao-Phuong Nguyen to discuss the history and current state of Bitcoin in Vietnam.

You can listen to the whole story in Episode 3 of the Bitcoin in Asia podcast:
http://bitcoininasia.btc.libsynpro.com/bia3-bringing-bitcoin-to-vietnam-with-dominik-weil-and-bao-phuong-paige-nguyen