{LIST}of the Merit Sources asking for more smerit. New Round.

[JayJuanGee]

Active Merit sources can't make up for inactive sources, so the inactive users should be replaced.

For what? So that new merit sources to the same users throw their merit? The current sources have already raised the rates for evaluating posts, it is already rare that anyone throws 1 merit per post, at least 2, 4, or even more. What problems will new merit sources solve? None.

It makes no sense to change inactive sources to active ones so that they just exist.

Generally, my most recent practice has been to attempt to give 1 merit to almost anything that seems to have some contributory value even if I might not personally agree with the points being made - but then I do not generally attempt to go out of my way to look for posts to merit - except maybe every once in a while when I feel that I have enough extra time to explore around the forum a bit.

By the way, maybe only about 1 out of a 100 of my sent merits are 2 merits or more, probably 1 out of 1,000 are 3 merits, which is the max that I ever have given to date.. hahahahahaha.. mine is a wee bit of a differing philosophy that might not be as suitable to other members who are deciding how many merits to send to any given post or member.

This just seems like a dead end for now. I gave up on applying for a Merit Source, it's no use and I have no free time lately. Seems like the merit correction will be at the same intervals as the bitcoin halving.

I haven't visited this thread since I replied here in January (and I should have, since I got a couple of replies to my post), but it does look like Theymos isn't tapping any new merit sources for now.  I do wonder why that is and if he thinks that there's sufficient merits circulating for it to be less of a burden to rank up.  

On a related note, if you're reading this Theymos, I could use my source sMerits replenished a bit more quickly.  I've been handing out a lot of merits as of late and have had to almost exhaust my earned sMerits in doing so.  My plan is to continue the spree, though there are days when I do less reading and don't find anything worth meriting--but that's always been the case.  Hopefully Theymos will grant my request, but if not it's not a huge deal.

In essence, you are really asking theymos for an increase in the quantity of your source merits, Pharmacist.  

Even if theymos decides to tweak the merit system in a variety of ways, I really doubt that he is going to tweak the 30-day replenishment matter - which seems to work pretty decently and any of us should be able to figure out ways to manage that, but I do agree that there may be some of us who feel that we do not have enough source merits being issued because we are frequently running out (which seems to be the point that you are making about yourself, Pharmacist) - versus those merit source members who may well be not even using all of their source merits which causes those source merits to expire after not using them within 30 days of being issued..

I am merely speculating that there may well be those kinds of merit source members, too.. who are seeming to be quite inactive as you guys have already mentioned, but theymos likely is able to completely break those kinds of matters down because the quantity of merits that merit sources have is not public information, even if some have disclosed their levels and some of that information can be somewhat extrapolated through some of the threads on the topic, including the Coin-1 "generosity" thread.

Sure, theymos has not really said anything on the topic either, as far as I know, so sometimes we might try to speculate what he is thinking based on his lack of saying anything or anything that he said or done that relates to the topic that might seem to be getting long in the tooth, at this point.  I do like the idea of getting more active merit sources, but I don't even feel very qualified to know what might be some of the trade offs that are being considered, but if overall the number of merits that are being sent is going down and maybe even that some deserving posts, threads (or members) are not getting merits, then there may be some good contributions that are being missed, perhaps? perhaps?

By the way, I can see why some source members might not be sending merits because sometimes it can take some time to read through some threads (or posts) and figure out if that post might seem to be adding some value whether objective or subjective impressions are used to determine if there might be any "value" there, but if some members might have more scattered use of the forum, they might not even feel comfortable enough to conclude value on a subjective level.. and sure I agree that there may also be some members who may well be considering way too high of standards before even squeaking out the sending of one smerit.

I recall early in the merit system, one source member who had stated that he would ONLY send merits if blah blah blah was met, which sometimes might seem a bit extreme of considerations for a source to have such rigid standards, but still there has been a considerable amount of latitude that theymos has left with source members and may well result (even to this day) that source members end up being a wee bit too stingy in what they would like to see before they send an smerit to a post, thread or member.

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[Findingnemo]

Active Merit sources can't make up for inactive sources, so the inactive users should be replaced.

For what? So that new merit sources to the same users throw their merit? The current sources have already raised the rates for evaluating posts, it is already rare that anyone throws 1 merit per post, at least 2, 4, or even more. What problems will new merit sources solve? None.

It makes no sense to change inactive sources to active ones so that they just exist.

New merit sources should give preference to the good quality posts no matter who made it, if Theymos made any changes in the merit sources lists. Even if theymos is not interested in adding new sources, its better to reallocate some since some merit sources have very few smerits to spend from their source which was even less than 100 for some.

[JayJuanGee]

Active Merit sources can't make up for inactive sources, so the inactive users should be replaced.

For what? So that new merit sources to the same users throw their merit? The current sources have already raised the rates for evaluating posts, it is already rare that anyone throws 1 merit per post, at least 2, 4, or even more. What problems will new merit sources solve? None.

It makes no sense to change inactive sources to active ones so that they just exist.

New merit sources should give preference to the good quality posts no matter who made it, if Theymos made any changes in the merit sources lists. Even if theymos is not interested in adding new sources, its better to reallocate some since some merit sources have very few smerits to spend from their source which was even less than 100 for some.

Your first point about quality can be subjective or objective, so source members are going to come to very differing conclusions about those kinds of matters, and I doubt that theymos would have any problems with that and the standard does seem to be more concerned with either potential abuse or even being inactive.. but lots of latitude seems to be allowed in determining posts/members to merit. .. .so in other words, findingnemo, if theymos wants to consider your merit distribution philosophy, he may well either add you (or your type of a member) as a source or increase your smerits if you already are a source, to the extent that theymos even wants to do any incremental changes to what is already happening.

I do agree with you that there does seem to be a number of merit sources who have decently (or would it be relatively) small source allocations, and of course, relative to a non merit source member, anything might seem like a lot, but relative to some other members, it may seem like a little.. 100 is actually not a bad quantity.. and even 50 or 60, which would still be 2 source merits per day.. so sure, it might be difficult to know or to hypothesize if tweaking a few members might be helpful or if theymos might be considering that if he does it, then he is going to do something BIGGER.. (so speculating again, regarding what theymos might be thinking in terms of tweaking, big changes or even total overhall - which would also be potentially scarie, until it were to actually happen and we know what we would be dealing with - under such a total overhall scenario, were it to occur).

[Findingnemo]

Your first point about quality can be subjective or objective, so source members are going to come to very differing conclusions about those kinds of matters, and I doubt that theymos would have any problems with that and the standard does seem to be more concerned with either potential abuse or even being inactive.. but lots of latitude seems to be allowed in determining posts/members to merit. .. .so in other words, findingnemo, if theymos wants to consider your merit distribution philosophy, he may well either add you (or your type of a member) as a source or increase your smerits if you already are a source, to the extent that theymos even wants to do any incremental changes to what is already happening.

I do agree with you that there does seem to be a number of merit sources who have decently (or would it be relatively) small source allocations, and of course, relative to a non merit source member, anything might seem like a lot, but relative to some other members, it may seem like a little.. 100 is actually not a bad quantity.. and even 50 or 60, which would still be 2 source merits per day.. so sure, it might be difficult to know or to hypothesize if tweaking a few members might be helpful or if theymos might be considering that if he does it, then he is going to do something BIGGER.. (so speculating again, regarding what theymos might be thinking in terms of tweaking, big changes or even total overhall - which would also be potentially scarie, until it were to actually happen and we know what we would be dealing with - under such a total overhall scenario, were it to occur).

Defining post quality is highly subjective and it only depends on the merit sources but what I am saying is merit sources should encourage the new users as well if they are making some contribution similar to what kind of encouragement is given to the established members but they should also be careful with the abusers which is real tasks.

I never thought about being a merit source and I am to far from being a one.

I am kind of person who doesn't wants to create guides and useless stats which are kind of boring since these are same things are posted again and again in different formats from different users, since forum is actually meant for discussions so we also encourage discussions which contribute to the cryptos in someway with some merits (like you are doing in WO and to me in this thread).

[vapourminer]

The current sources have already raised the rates for evaluating posts, it is already rare that anyone throws 1 merit per post, at least 2, 4, or even more.

Rare? I send 1 merit/post almost half of the time (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=359716), even though i focus on specific board/topic without being too generous.

same here. 90+ percent of mine are 1 merit sends as i try to spread it out as much as possible. i think the most ive given out was 3 or 4 (rare, those) except for a couple fat finger sends.

[DdmrDdmr]

If anyone wants to take a look at their (or others) average sMerit sending habits, they can get a glimpse here:
Overall:
https://public.tableau.com/profile/ddmrddmr#!/vizhome/BitcointalkMeritDashboard/PotentialMeritSources
Restricted to 2021:
https://public.tableau.com/shared/848DMMFCG?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

Specifically, the column “Avg. Merit TX” is the interesting one, although the complementary stdDevSentTx may be interesting to take a look at too (the higher this value is, the more variable the amount send in relation to the average).

The list is not delimited to Merit Sources, but the top members on the list are bound to be. There are a bunch of people with an average in the 1s range, going all the way up to 5s (and beyond).

For example, my average for the running 2021 is of 1,04, with a standard deviation of 0,2. So basically, I’m a regular (mean) 1 sMerit per Tx type of person.

Additionally, the Sent TX summary (top right of the following screen) shows that I (Username is changeable) award 1 sMerit 89,92% of my sMerit TXs, 2sMerits 9,3%, and my max is that of 10 sMerits (0,04%):
https://public.tableau.com/shared/QTY32FDHP?:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link

[LoyceV]

The real concern is merit source send same amount of merit for almost all posts, ignoring the quality or how useful is the post.

That's not really a problem: If the post is very useful, it's likely to receive Merit from other users too.

[Quickseller]

With @DdmrDdmr statistic, we can see there are some people who did same thing. But i problem with sending more merit per post. The real concern is merit source send same amount of merit for almost all posts, ignoring the quality or how useful is the post.

As a merit source, I tend to give out a varying amount of merit, depending on a number of factors, including the amount of total sMerit I have to give out, and my mood, but also the effort put into the post, and the importance of the information in the post.

Merit sources should do their best to keep their available source merit close to zero (ie spend all their source merit), and doing so is not always easy if they do not read a lot of good posts. This means they may need to send a lot of merit per post.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Merit sources should do their best to keep their available source merit close to zero (ie spend all their source merit), and doing so is not always easy if they do not read a lot of good posts. This means they may need to send a lot of merit per post.

No punishment to merit sources if they don't use all sourced smerit so they should not force themselves to send sourced smerit more than a post deserves to get.

1, 2 or any number can be sent to a good post but each source can bind with their rules. If their rules are.
Good post: 1 merit
Above good post: 2 merit
Excellent post: 3 merit.

They can bind with their rules. If is not fair if they send 1 merit to a good post usually but when their source is full, they send a good post 10 merit.

[Quickseller]

Merit sources should do their best to keep their available source merit close to zero (ie spend all their source merit), and doing so is not always easy if they do not read a lot of good posts. This means they may need to send a lot of merit per post.

No punishment to merit sources if they don't use all sourced smerit so they should not force themselves to send sourced smerit more than a post deserves to get.

There is no punishment, but theymos has encouraged the merit sources to spend all their source merit. If I do not spend all my source merit, it will go to waste, so I might as well give more merit on a per post basis so all my source merit is depleted. Theymos has said in the past that it is better to give one post 50 merit if you can only find one merit-worthy post in a month and have 50 source merit rather than let your source merit go to waste.

[JayJuanGee]

This means they may need to send a lot of merit per post.

Alternatively merit source could send more merit per post (including post which already merited) only for posts which considered better than most merited post.

If is not fair if they send 1 merit to a good post usually but when their source is full, they send a good post 10 merit.

Merit system has never been fair and each source is allowed to have their own rules/preference.

I will kind of go along with your point that the merit system might not be the most fair system, but I doubt that creating additional requirements for merit sources would be very helpful.  There seems to be a decent amount of subjectivity and even lack of imposition of requirements for merit sources which likely causes it to be kind of less centralized... even though sure, having the same merit sources for a long time, likely gravitates towards greater centralization, so what would be the solution to make it more fair?  Have more merit sources or rotating merit sources, which is something that theymos could do.. perhaps?

Sure there could be more clear guidelines for merit sources too, including that they spend their merits or lose their position or lose their allocation, and if there seems to be needs for tweaking and ongoing monitoring and tweaking of the system in order to attempt to make it more fair, then maybe theymos should appoint a merit system czar?  Not sure if that would help, or if theymos's seeming choice to NOT change the system very often is more fair from his perspective, which seems that NOT making changes very often seems to be where he is at, at this time.

[El duderino_]

The current sources have already raised the rates for evaluating posts, it is already rare that anyone throws 1 merit per post, at least 2, 4, or even more.

Rare? I send 1 merit/post almost half of the time (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=359716), even though i focus on specific board/topic without being too generous.

same here. 90+ percent of mine are 1 merit sends as i try to spread it out as much as possible. i think the most ive given out was 3 or 4 (rare, those) except for a couple fat finger sends.

Only send 1 isn't bad but a bit of BS imo.... sorry...

I like to send more as 1 so a rewarded person can resent some as well, its hard to write only merit'able' posts and so difficult to earn merits which can be resent by someone who isn't a source, good members still need some kind of motivation to rank up etc...

Beside that, as sources we can detect a lot of good members which are more as capable of sending merits for good posts as well... so I don't mind giving 5-10 to some good senior, hero etc members so they can resent and rank up both... Also a lot of good Legendary posters whom fancy some merits as well but have difficulties with earning, so for members we know are good members, its not wrong for meriting them on there posts a bit more from time to time imho

[vapourminer]

same here. 90+ percent of mine are 1 merit sends as i try to spread it out as much as possible. i think the most ive given out was 3 or 4 (rare, those) except for a couple fat finger sends.

Only send 1 isn't bad but a bit of BS imo.... sorry...

I like to send more as 1 so a rewarded person can resent some as well, its hard to write only merit'able' posts and so difficult to earn merits which can be resent by someone who isn't a source, good members still need some kind of motivation to rank up etc...

Beside that, as sources we can detect a lot of good members which are more as capable of sending merits for good posts as well... so I don't mind giving 5-10 to some good senior, hero etc members so they can resent and rank up both... Also a lot of good Legendary posters whom fancy some merits as well but have difficulties with earning, so for members we know are good members, its not wrong for meriting them on there posts a bit more from time to time imho

one merit per post may seem stingy but often times i wind up meriting the same person several posts in row in a thread, so it averages out to more per person i suppose..  as consistently good posters get more merits, its kinda follows, whether they get many merits in one post or one merit each for many posts..

i do try to give more to sub legendary all things being equal but legendaries also need merits so they can send them on too.

[El duderino_]

same here. 90+ percent of mine are 1 merit sends as i try to spread it out as much as possible. i think the most ive given out was 3 or 4 (rare, those) except for a couple fat finger sends.

Only send 1 isn't bad but a bit of BS imo.... sorry...

I like to send more as 1 so a rewarded person can resent some as well, its hard to write only merit'able' posts and so difficult to earn merits which can be resent by someone who isn't a source, good members still need some kind of motivation to rank up etc...

Beside that, as sources we can detect a lot of good members which are more as capable of sending merits for good posts as well... so I don't mind giving 5-10 to some good senior, hero etc members so they can resent and rank up both... Also a lot of good Legendary posters whom fancy some merits as well but have difficulties with earning, so for members we know are good members, its not wrong for meriting them on there posts a bit more from time to time imho

one merit per post may seem stingy but often times i wind up meriting the same person several posts in row in a thread, so it averages out to more per person i suppose..  as consistently good posters get more merits, its kinda follows, whether they get many merits in one post or one merit each for many posts..

i do try to give more to sub legendary all things being equal but legendaries also need merits so they can send them on too.

I reward sub sometimes harder as they are needing to rank up a bit, though I merit very active Legendaries as well with more merit, for the reasons they are the stones of the forum where we build on and they fancy some merits as well to send and reward other and new members....

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Bumping this thread in the hope that Theymos will see it and see my plea for more source sMerits.  I've posted in a few threads recently that I'm all out of earned ones and right now have only about 15 source sMerits--and I could easily give those away within a few minutes.

I've also made the offer to review post histories in a few threads for members who contact me via PM, and lately there have been several who've taken me up on it and have ended up with a bunch of merits.  I'd like to keep that offer open, but I can only do so if I have enough sMerits to give out.

Thanks in advance, Theymos.

[El duderino_]

El Duderino, filling in a merit boost bill hoping the grand official Theymos will approve my request….

9 June, official request for more source merits

Why, main reason is I’m a bit short in Smerits to do my merit job as how I’m pleased of doing it….
I’m not looking to other sources, we all have our own way of spreading them.

I do like to rank up deserving members, I do like to give Legendary non-sources Smerits as well on good posts in order they feel them self rewarded and recognized in this forum where they have been posting for years and separated themselves from non-believers etc, as they like to get some Smerits as well to reward further new members etc, even on busy days as lately I always do find the time so exhaust my full sourc allowance as my seg earned merit, NON are not been used, all are always send….

I hope my bill gets past like it did in El Salvador and my bags getting a bit more Smerits

Good work, should be rewarded

-El Duderino.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Agree with El Duderino_ above.

I often find my sMerit (source allowance) empty. I like to cruise around the forum dropping sMerit on deserving posts. I could really do with an increase to my source allowance, it’d help a lot.

Hope theymos reads these posts & increases our allowance any way.

Thanks.

[philipma1957]

I do not need a bump as I have been lazy in giving merits out.

I just gave 30 to the 3 above me which means they now have 15 to give away.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I do not need a bump as I have been lazy in giving merits out.

I just gave 30 to the 3 above me which means they now have 15 to give away.

Very generous phillip, greatly appreciated.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I just gave 30 to the 3 above me which means they now have 15 to give away.

Jeez, philipma1957--you didn't have to give me any merits at all, but I appreciate it.  My whole point in posting in this thread was to get Theymos's attention so that he might replenish my source sMerits a bit more rapidly.  And I think it might have worked, though it seems like I never have more than about 30 sMerits at any given point.  Still, if they get re-upped once I use them all up I'm fine with that.  I just want to have enough so that I'm not completely out when I see a post worth meriting.

Hope theymos reads these posts & increases our allowance any way.

Me too, especially since I don't think Theymos intends to anoint any new merit sources for now.  Last I checked there were quite a few applications that fell on deaf ears.