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Author Topic: The BCH value in forum wallets  (Read 2155 times)
marlboroza
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December 02, 2019, 08:48:56 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2019, 09:04:35 PM by marlboroza
 #81

What is difference between bitcoinshith fork and GBYTE airdrop except theymos didn't know about it?

Forks require you to move the BTC befor you claim them because claiming them can compromise your private key and they can take everything..
Airdrops you can just sign a message, doesn't risk the keys..
Doh! I know difference between airdrop and fork  Roll Eyes Not really my point. Why OG returned BCH and didn't return GBYTE? Why he returned BCH, he was escrowing BTC for forum and owned 500BTC to forum, not BCH, not any other fork, BTC! Because those funds have never been his in first place, he was payed to keep them safe, it is like putting something into bank's safe deposit box, bank is not allowed to touch it. The same with airdrop - he claimed something with funds which are not his and instead informing owner of funds about his actions and handing funds over he closed his mouth shout and hoped no one will notice. It is just like bank breaking into your safe deposit box and using your property to make money, at least it would be morally right to send those funds to forum.

Now, we can argue should he keep that funds or not - I am sure we have very different opinion about this and we will probably spin in circle, you and some other members will say yes, me and some other members will say no, and that is ok, different people have different opinions but you can't argue that not informing theymos about this is pretty much dick move. New all time low by OG.

Can you please post link? Most addresses from that list are, as I can see, OG's, but what about this one? Does it mean mindtrip is OG's alt account?

Search for OOUIJTHWY5PANA7P2YUJX67VVN2QZYIX here:

http://transition.obyte.org/
Thanks. So:
1BGM6a3cYutnZL3jWVCsKzeWHDG1Votnxc
Is nonnakip's address.

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December 02, 2019, 09:10:46 PM
 #82

What is difference between bitcoinshith fork and GBYTE airdrop except theymos didn't know about it?

Forks require you to move the BTC befor you claim them because claiming them can compromise your private key and they can take everything..
Airdrops you can just sign a message, doesn't risk the keys..
Doh! I know difference between airdrop and fork  Roll Eyes Not really my point. Why OG returned BCH and didn't return GBYTE? Why he returned BCH, he was escrowing BTC for forum and owned 500BTC to forum, not BCH, not any other fork, BTC! Because those funds have never been his in first place, he was payed to keep them safe, it is like putting something into bank's safe deposit box, bank is not allowed to touch it. The same with airdrop - he claimed something with funds which are not his and instead informing owner of funds about his actions and handing funds over he closed his mouth shout and hoped no one will notice. It is just like bank breaking into your safe deposit box and using your property to make money, at least it would be morally right to send those funds to forum.

Now, we can argue should he keep that funds or not - I am sure we have very different opinion about this and we will probably spin in circle, you and some other members will say yes, me and some other members will say no, and that is ok, different people have different opinions but you can't argue that not informing theymos about this is pretty much dick move. New all time low by OG.

Can you please post link? Most addresses from that list are, as I can see, OG's, but what about this one? Does it mean mindtrip is OG's alt account?

Search for OOUIJTHWY5PANA7P2YUJX67VVN2QZYIX here:

http://transition.obyte.org/
Thanks. So:
1BGM6a3cYutnZL3jWVCsKzeWHDG1Votnxc
Is nonnakip's address.

I don't think there is a need for another croatian dog yapping in here. Go yap at your croatian pal or alt lauda for doing the same thing in his escrow with other peoples BTC.

Theymos has ALREADY said he thinks it is a bit slimy so I see no need to keep giving opinions on it when theymos is well aware clearly now of what has happened.

This is how this bunch of colluders work here they all turn a blind eye to their own actions on doing the exact same thing or actually support each other for doing it. Then when someone else does the same or less they all harp on about it like they are totally disgusted by it LOL

We get it , it appears it could be a bit slimy. But your pals have done far worse.

Now let's wait for OG's comment himself.

It's strange THE SAME BUNCH are so mortified at behaviors they endorse from their pals. LOL
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December 02, 2019, 09:29:46 PM
 #83

Is nonnakip's address.

nonnakip = OG ?

or am I missing something here?

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December 02, 2019, 09:44:38 PM
 #84

Is nonnakip's address.

nonnakip = OG ?

or am I missing something here?

Almost positive they aren't the same person.  nonna just help run the ponzi seats.


Let's not forget he gave the " good" forks and all the 500BTC back after years of holding it.

He knew everyone was watching and expecting him to make those payments.
He didn't think anyone was watching for the airdrops though.

"Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is watching."
-CS Lewis
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December 02, 2019, 10:01:06 PM
Merited by DireWolfM14 (2), guigui371 (1)
 #85

I think this is an interesting philosophical question of who has the right to these sorts of miscellaneous fork/airdrop values based on who owns the keys or what is contracted with the contents of the keys..

Ideally, it should be handled explicitly in the agreement, but this agreement predated the concept of forkcoins.

Hardforks are not impossible in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is not ruled by miners, and there is no objective way to determine what the true Bitcoin is.
The result of all this is that there is no "Bitcoin governance"; Bitcoin is not governed. No person or group can force their views on anyone else, and even things like the definition of a bitcoin can be subjective
Therefore, if a fork can claim with any sort of sanity that it is the true Bitcoin merely executing a hardfork, and if the agreement doesn't specify, then whoever owned the original BTC ought to own the forkcoins. Otherwise, whoever makes the choice of which Bitcoin is "real" could make the wrong choice. Airdrops that don't/can't claim to be hardforks are different, since they are much more clearly separate things that someone is giving you for doing something.

In the case of the treasury agreement: all forkcoins were always forum property from the beginning. I voluntarily gifted OgNasty the non-major forkcoins, since dealing with them would be more trouble than they're worth. The three forkcoins transferred to me were ones I specified. Airdrops are different. I don't think that OgNasty should've collected airdrops via forum BTC, but collecting and keeping airdrops was not prohibited by the agreement, and the forum has no agreement-wise claim on those coins.

I don't see it as appropriate to demand (or perhaps even accept) the airdrop proceeds. Because the agreement definitely didn't require it, demanding it now could be perceived as exploiting the political atmosphere here to shake down a counterparty.

I stand by my previous analogy:
I suppose an analogy would be a fine-art storage company selling selfies with famous artworks.
It's annoying because:
 - Not asking was unprofessional.
 - Taking a private key out of cold storage always has some amount of risk.
 - I now have to spend time on this drama.

The airdrop amount is unimportant, and I'd feel exactly the same if the airdrop amount was 100x more or 100x less. If I'd been holding the BTC, no airdrops would've been received at all, since I never participate in those.

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December 02, 2019, 10:54:30 PM
 #86

Is nonnakip's address.

nonnakip = OG ?

or am I missing something here?

Almost positive they aren't the same person.  nonna just help run the ponzi seats.
Maybe OG informed nonnakip about airdrop and helped them to claim it to OG's addy.

I don't see it as appropriate to demand (or perhaps even accept) the airdrop proceeds. Because the agreement definitely didn't require it, demanding it now could be perceived as exploiting the political atmosphere here to shake down a counterparty.
Fair enough. We won't mention stellar airdrop then.

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December 03, 2019, 05:23:54 AM
Last edit: December 03, 2019, 05:36:55 AM by Vispilio
Merited by eddie13 (1)
 #87

...

In the case of the treasury agreement: all forkcoins were always forum property from the beginning. I voluntarily gifted OgNasty the non-major forkcoins, since dealing with them would be more trouble than they're worth. The three forkcoins transferred to me were ones I specified. Airdrops are different. I don't think that OgNasty should've collected airdrops via forum BTC, but collecting and keeping airdrops was not prohibited by the agreement, and the forum has no agreement-wise claim on those coins.

I don't see it as appropriate to demand (or perhaps even accept) the airdrop proceeds. Because the agreement definitely didn't require it, demanding it now could be perceived as exploiting the political atmosphere here to shake down a counterparty.

I stand by my previous analogy:
I suppose an analogy would be a fine-art storage company selling selfies with famous artworks.
It's annoying because:
 - Not asking was unprofessional.
 - Taking a private key out of cold storage always has some amount of risk.
 - I now have to spend time on this drama.

The airdrop amount is unimportant, and I'd feel exactly the same if the airdrop amount was 100x more or 100x less. If I'd been holding the BTC, no airdrops would've been received at all, since I never participate in those.

Good points, the analogy stands and can be further extended.

Far more liberties are routinely taken with depositors' funds by banks, unions, retirement pools etc. to generate profits on a regular basis, so the outrage expressed by some members here is grossly exaggerated...

Philosophically it makes sense to hand over the hard-fork coins to the forum that purported to be direct competitors to BTC, like BCH & BSV; but with other airdrops and similar, the treasurer generating added value for himself, while abiding by his duties to the forum, should be totally fine.

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...

 
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December 03, 2019, 06:32:04 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), fcmatt (1)
 #88

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...

Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?

As for banks et al. that usually entails them sharing the returns with the depositors' and they provide other services your average treasurer safeguarding other peoples' money won't provide.

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December 03, 2019, 06:55:22 AM
 #89

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...

Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?

As for banks et al. that usually entails them sharing the returns with the depositors' and they provide other services your average treasurer safeguarding other peoples' money won't provide.

Yes that is certainly a matter that should be talked about and sorted out between the two parties. Either prior or even after if both are sensible and honest.

I don't think we should attempt to white wash or demonize until we have ALL of the details and the final agreement between the two parties concluded.

I certainly DO NOT THINK we should have people that have done THE SAME or WORSE all gathering and colluding into a lynch mob here for their OWN PERSONAL ENDS.

This is why you can not have people that are guilty of the same or WORSE trying to punish people without turning the entire board to a warzone

People dishing out disapproval/disgust/indignation and punishment need to be SQUEAKY clean themselves or human nature says fuck that bullshit.

(that is not aimed at you since we have no experience with you here, we are referring to others gathering)
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December 03, 2019, 07:22:52 AM
 #90

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...
Yes, and the very same financial experts that are rotting in prison you mean?

Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?
Both illegal unless agreed and intended upon before.

Double standards.

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December 03, 2019, 07:31:31 AM
 #91

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...
Yes, and the very same financial experts that are rotting in prison you mean?

Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?
Both illegal unless agreed and intended upon before.

Double standards.

But he never risked any of the money to multiply it!


Oh wait nevermind:

It's annoying because:
 - Not asking was unprofessional.
 - Taking a private key out of cold storage always has some amount of risk.
 - I now have to spend time on this drama.
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December 03, 2019, 07:31:57 AM
 #92

It's annoying because:
~
 - I now have to spend time on this drama.
Sorry for that Shocked

Many financial experts would even further argue that it's the sign of a competent treasurer if he can make the assets entrusted to him multiply with reasonably risk-free activities  Wink ...
Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?
It would indeed have looked much better if a forum treasurer managed to give back a few percent more more than he owed.

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December 03, 2019, 08:29:30 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #93

- Not asking was unprofessional.
 - Taking a private key out of cold storage always has some amount of risk.

Thanks for taking the time to comment Theymos. Personally I believe its far more than just unprofessional, but im not quite as chilled a character as you.

Really? Multiply the assets for himself, or for the one who has entrusted him with the money?

See that's the bit that got me, personal greed without communicating intentions to the owner of the coins. That is far more than unprofessional, more underhand and slippery.


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December 03, 2019, 08:56:14 AM
 #94


I didn't know about that. I don't see it as a violation of the treasury agreement, but it's... a bit tacky, I guess. I suppose an analogy would be a fine-art storage company selling selfies with famous artworks.
It's hard to put the blockchain in a real world analogy. For my example I can imagine that the FED had the ability to issue money electronically and attach or detach currency based on holdings, which it could track.

Building upon the previous, I think a more proper analogy would be a bank claiming a currency issue for its own benefit by utilizing deposits in it's secure box service.

Now, the fact that there was no clause in the agreement to prevent this, doesn't mean that it doesn't violate ownership laws. If the intended recipient is the owner of the cash, he should have the power to decide what to do with the new cash. The bank wasn't given permission (ignoring regional law enforcement regulations) to access secure box contents on demand.
AND, the new currency issue, attaches to the cash (coins), and not the box (btc address). The fact that the cash was in the bank's box, only gives it the ability to access the cash and its attachments, but not permission to.

Coming back to BTC and forks, I would argue that since the original owner of the coins agrees with the treasurer that coins are just to be held secure, not spent, then airdrops should fall under the same umbrella. Since they were dropped to the treasurer only because of someone else's property, then the treasurer should abide by the rules treating them as BTC. Treasurer would not be getting an airdrops on the treasury address if it weren't for the treasurer coins anyway.

 
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December 03, 2019, 10:08:29 AM
 #95

Treasurer would not be getting an airdrops on the treasury address if it weren't for the treasurer coins anyway.

maybe he should donate them to Free Ross? or maybe an official charity?

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December 03, 2019, 10:50:25 AM
 #96

But he never risked any of the money to multiply it!

Oh wait nevermind:

It's annoying because:
 - Not asking was unprofessional.
 - Taking a private key out of cold storage always has some amount of risk.
 - I now have to spend time on this drama.
Exactly, plus evident double-standards depending on who we are talking about. "No risk" my ass. Roll Eyes

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December 03, 2019, 10:59:41 AM
 #97

Exactly, plus evident double-standards depending on who we are talking about. "No risk" my ass. Roll Eyes

This reminds me of a similar situation. Yet it was you who was accused of wrongdoing and OGNasty who was one of the most vocal posters, yet here we are in a thread about him and not 1 comment? why on earth would that be ?

here are a few quotes I briefly took from the other thread - being me probably fucked up the order so don't hold it against me, blame my fat fingers.. I am sure someone else could do a better summary from the thread if they chose to.

It is disappointing to see this level of transparency.

This escrow was not handled properly. Asking questions is appropriate.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt.  You're supposed to be transparent as an escrow

You don't get the benefit of the doubt with other people's money.  Sorry.

After you received funds for this ICO escrow deal, you changed your escrow terms to state that you get to keep forked funds.  

The evidence he quoted stated that he took 18 BTC for that transfer.  I'm trying to clear up inconsistencies.  People deserve to know what happened to their money.

(& it's 10-78 BTC in question).

"Sometimes hope for betterment is wasted."

It is very clear there was wrongdoing here.

Paid to do a job = staff... I believe some people are here.

I don’t believe anyone is accusing Bitcointalk staff of stealing.

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December 03, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #98

Exactly, plus evident double-standards depending on who we are talking about. "No risk" my ass. Roll Eyes

This reminds me of a similar situation. Yet it was you who was accused of wrongdoing and OGNasty who was one of the most vocal posters, yet here we are in a thread about him and not 1 comment? why on earth would that be ?

here are a few quotes I briefly took from the other thread - being me probably fucked up the order so don't hold it against me, blame my fat fingers.. I am sure someone else could do a better summary from the thread if they chose to.

It is disappointing to see this level of transparency.

This escrow was not handled properly. Asking questions is appropriate.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt.  You're supposed to be transparent as an escrow

You don't get the benefit of the doubt with other people's money.  Sorry.

After you received funds for this ICO escrow deal, you changed your escrow terms to state that you get to keep forked funds.  

The evidence he quoted stated that he took 18 BTC for that transfer.  I'm trying to clear up inconsistencies.  People deserve to know what happened to their money.

(& it's 10-78 BTC in question).

"Sometimes hope for betterment is wasted."

It is very clear there was wrongdoing here.

Paid to do a job = staff... I believe some people are here.

I don’t believe anyone is accusing Bitcointalk staff of stealing.

This has to be the first time I'm seeing you making a well constructed post Grin.

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December 03, 2019, 03:30:46 PM
 #99

Exactly, plus evident double-standards depending on who we are talking about. "No risk" my ass. Roll Eyes

This reminds me of a similar situation. Yet it was you who was accused of wrongdoing and OGNasty who was one of the most vocal posters, yet here we are in a thread about him and not 1 comment? why on earth would that be ?

here are a few quotes I briefly took from the other thread - being me probably fucked up the order so don't hold it against me, blame my fat fingers.. I am sure someone else could do a better summary from the thread if they chose to.

It is disappointing to see this level of transparency.

This escrow was not handled properly. Asking questions is appropriate.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt.  You're supposed to be transparent as an escrow

You don't get the benefit of the doubt with other people's money.  Sorry.

After you received funds for this ICO escrow deal, you changed your escrow terms to state that you get to keep forked funds.  

The evidence he quoted stated that he took 18 BTC for that transfer.  I'm trying to clear up inconsistencies.  People deserve to know what happened to their money.

(& it's 10-78 BTC in question).

"Sometimes hope for betterment is wasted."

It is very clear there was wrongdoing here.

Paid to do a job = staff... I believe some people are here.

I don’t believe anyone is accusing Bitcointalk staff of stealing.

whilst I dislike bumps I dislike TOAA more - that fool is taking attention away from me.. best lending service...

BCH is no longer the issue as per the OP!

no the issue is AIRDROP...

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December 03, 2019, 03:56:21 PM
 #100

You cant copy and past OGs posts for different topics on here and they become relevant at all, all you are doing is poking fun at the irony
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