It's hard to spend Crypto - Make adopters out of entrepreneurs

[Steamtyme]

So I'm gearing up for a bit of a road trip and will be passing through a couple major centers in my country. Now I seem to recall a few years back especially leading into the 2017 FOMO that quite a few retail outlets had started taking BTC, LTC and maybe a few others. There are articles going back a few years where there were some restaurants that had adopted the practice as well. Now I don't know how many of them set up their own wallets, or if they used a gateway service to convert crypto and be paid in FIAT. The problem is this is on the steep decline, and it doesn't seem like retail is interested. I am struggling to find a shop I can show up and pay for something with crypto.

I get it if large retailers aren't interested. Why would they it's more work for them and training. However a small business running with minimal staff could esaily adopt the practice. Ideally they would manage their own wallet and become a coiner themselves. Hell even just holding back 3-5% in the coins themselves and converting the rest would be a nice step in the right direction.

Personally I'm hoping to have a convo or 2 with any small shop I stop in at just to see what their thoughts are on the matter. It will be a small percentage that might be interested, but I feel entrepreneurs in general to be the sort that would jump into this. I'm not giving up and have a lead on a couple spots that I might be able to make this happen, if so I'm hoping to get some insight from the owners about how they got into it and why they stayed with it.

Side note I do think I found a furniture store a few hours away from me that takes payment in Crypto. I'll be trying to find out more about them as well.

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[amishmanish]

I get it if large retailers aren't interested. Why would they it's more work for them and training. However a small business running with minimal staff could esaily adopt the practice. Ideally they would manage their own wallet and become a coiner themselves. Hell even just holding back 3-5% in the coins themselves and converting the rest would be a nice step in the right direction.

Large oragnized retailers cannot do it because it has to be an organization level thing for them. If BTC isn't in a legal ambiguous state in your country then i think the best bet is to find target individual shops and stores. Particularly those who are related to technology. Computer hardware sellers, Consumer Electronics, Mobile retailers, Mobile/ cellphone service providers.

Apart from these a lot of service providers like Accountants, Lawyers etc would be interested in this. This will help them in getting familiar with something that is going to directly affect their own services. These are some of the people I would have chosen to proselytize if i had the option to.

And @Steamtyme, I have seen your posts in the mining section and it would be great if you can share some thoughts on this topic i started regarding option for mining.

[Kyraishi]

So I'm gearing up for a bit of a road trip and will be passing through a couple major centers in my country. Now I seem to recall a few years back especially leading into the 2017 FOMO that quite a few retail outlets had started taking BTC, LTC and maybe a few others. There are articles going back a few years where there were some restaurants that had adopted the practice as well. Now I don't know how many of them set up their own wallets, or if they used a gateway service to convert crypto and be paid in FIAT. The problem is this is on the steep decline, and it doesn't seem like retail is interested. I am struggling to find a shop I can show up and pay for something with crypto.

When everything is going well, and people are buying BTC - it's a no brainer that retail stores are going to try and incorporate BTC, as it will likely lead to sales and it will be worth the hassle, if it's going downhill, they can't be bothered, lol.

I get it if large retailers aren't interested. Why would they it's more work for them and training. However a small business running with minimal staff could esaily adopt the practice. Ideally they would manage their own wallet and become a coiner themselves. Hell even just holding back 3-5% in the coins themselves and converting the rest would be a nice step in the right direction.

Yep - no Amazon is going to bother adding crypto, it won't really do anything good for them. For the smaller stores, think about the process they will need to go through (which is likely similar to this)
1. Get a payment processor for online purchases, as well as a terminal that will work in brick and mortar stores.
2. Train their staff and cashiers regarding crypto payments.
3. Charge, or personally eat the 1-2 percent payment fee that most big processers will charge, or hire a coder to create your own system.

Simply put, a lot of smaller stalls just don't have the manpower to make this a possibility.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I presume you have checked out https://coinmap.org/ and https://spending-bitcoin.com/? The latter is an online directory, but many of the stores have physical outlets as well.

For the smaller stores, think about the process they will need to go through (which is likely similar to this)
-snip-

These steps are only necessary if they want to use a payment processor. It is perfectly possible for a small retailer to just set up their own wallet. I spend bitcoin around three times a month at a local farmers' market, and the vendor I usually use totals up my bill on his phone, generates a QR code, and I transfer directly to his own wallet. No payment processor, no fancy terminal, no processing fees. Training of staff required is minimal - they just need to type in the value in fiat and the wallet does the rest, from converting to BTC, to generating a new receiving address, to generating and displaying a new QR code.

[blckhawk]

This would be the best move for adoption. However, it's not that easy to encourage them to adopt to Bitcoin without those large enterprises doing so too. If they see huge international companies adopting to such mode of payment, then it would be much easier for them to trust the system and would follow. But until that would not happen, then there would not be a driving force that would make them support payment through Bitcoin.

[CryptoBry]

There is another side of the coin to this story and it is the lack of business volume while accepting cryptocurrency like Bitcoin. Had there really been many people who are using Bitcoin and demanding from their favorite merchants that they be allowed to use the digital assets on their offline and online shops, then it would be easy to conclude that eventually merchants will have no choice but to join the Bitcoin bandwagon. But why bother when most Bitcoin owners are just holding and not using them to buy or pay anything? This is another big problem that should have been solved first. Maybe there should be a law that can make our Bitcoin expired once we don't use it within a year after receiving. And I am just kidding, of course.

[alyssa85]

So I'm gearing up for a bit of a road trip and will be passing through a couple major centers in my country. Now I seem to recall a few years back especially leading into the 2017 FOMO that quite a few retail outlets had started taking BTC, LTC and maybe a few others. There are articles going back a few years where there were some restaurants that had adopted the practice as well. Now I don't know how many of them set up their own wallets, or if they used a gateway service to convert crypto and be paid in FIAT. The problem is this is on the steep decline, and it doesn't seem like retail is interested. I am struggling to find a shop I can show up and pay for something with crypto.

They were interested right up to the mempool backlogs of Dec 2017/Jan 2018 when you had to wait three weeks for your transaction to confirm.

At that point they gave up and they don't believe that bitcoin works with retail.

It might be worth trying to persuade shops to accept a quick confirming alt like litecoin or dogecoin, which is also on all the exchanges, so is liquid as regards to conversion to fiat. AFAIK neither litecoin or doge have ever had any mempool or confirmation problems at all, so that might be the way to go for commercial adoption of cryptocurrency.

[o_e_l_e_o]

But until that would not happen, then there would not be a driving force that would make them support payment through Bitcoin.

The driving force is the consumer. If enough people start asking if they accept bitcoin, or stating that they wish to pay in bitcoin, then business will take heed. After all, they want your money. If the best way to get your money is by accepting it as bitcoin, then they will. We shouldn't be waiting on some big multinational to do the leg work - go out and create demand.

It might be worth trying to persuade shops to accept a quick confirming alt like litecoin or dogecoin

Or just use Lightning. That's a far better solution than using some dying and insecure altcoin.

[Steamtyme]

3. Charge, or personally eat the 1-2 percent payment fee that most big processers will charge, or hire a coder to create your own system.

See most credit cards take a 1-3% cut of the sale price, and they charge a fee for rentals for the card readers themselves. So if you can print out say a QR code a day and have that at the till, there's a simple solution for a small business. You could then have a view only wallet open at checkout to confirm a payment has been sent. I thin k overall you can come up with a really simple infrastructure with minimal effort to make this work for any business really. Especially because at first this will be a small amount of sales.

But why bother when most Bitcoin owners are just holding and not using them to buy or pay anything? This is another big problem that should have been solved first. Maybe there should be a law that can make our Bitcoin expired once we don't use it within a year after receiving. And I am just kidding, of course.

Holding serves a purpose and makes sense. I do hope that in time there is a larger overall disbursement of BTC as I don't like the idea of any one entity holding a large amount of the total supply. I think that time will come when there is an easier way to directly make purchases with BTC or other coins that have generated wealth for people. Those of us still getting there, should still  look to make a certain percentage of direct purchases if possible with our coins to drive towards consumer solutions.

They were interested right up to the mempool backlogs of Dec 2017/Jan 2018 when you had to wait three weeks for your transaction to confirm.

That really should have been seen as a hiccup, or a good time to fall back on Fiat. we are still no where near a complete replacement of that system so it makes sense to fall back on it from time to time. That same point in time though was also giving them some massive price jumps even from say a morning transaction to a sell point later in the day. Short lived as it was. I do see these as opportunities for some coins to cement themselves as the small/quick purchase coin of choice. I don't think we are there yet, but it would help bridge the gap.

The driving force is the consumer. If enough people start asking if they accept bitcoin, or stating that they wish to pay in bitcoin, then business will take heed. After all, they want your money. If the best way to get your money is by accepting it as bitcoin, then they will. We shouldn't be waiting on some big multinational to do the leg work - go out and create demand.
~snip~
Or just use Lightning. That's a far better solution than using some dying and insecure altcoin.

I agree with the trying to create demand. I'm still hoping that the one store I found so far still accepts crypto payments, I called and the girl said "Good question, I'll have to call the owner." I laughed and said I'd call back on Monday. I think lightning still has a few kinks to work out especially with channel costs and things like that to work well enough as a fast payment processor. I can see some Alts being a benefit to the overall ecosystem, if not a necessity for certain levels of transactions.

Also I did stumble across those sites and will use them in the future. They seem to work better if you know what you want or where you'd like to shop. I did find more info on the furniture place it's a "Sleep Center", now I don't need a bed but I may stop in to see what they use for a system.

[Wysi]

This is really great idea and it can change the course of bitcoin/crypto forever if entrepreneurs start accepting bitcoin and we can find some entrepreneurs who might like to experiment but again they are not a giant corporate and might not end up well when the market goes bearish whcih might create a negative impact but stable coin might be an option for them.

[ChrisPop]

I don't know any offline store that accepts direct Bitcoin payments and not using a payment proccesor. It would be hard for retailers to implement this without exposing themselves to major volatility risks. That's the reason why atm it is more feasible to use a payment processor that directly converts BTC to fiat, but as the OP suggested it would be a start for them to stack 2-5% of the crypto payments in BTC and only convert the rest. But they need consultancy for this. Very few people actually know how to set a bitcoin and how the transactions work.

[target]

Small shops who the real owners are the ones in the store selling their stuff are likely easy to be convince to accept crypto.

 I'd like to sell some some products as well where I can travel 3-5 miles to the city where I can park my van and sell my merchandise for BTC. I'd still accept fiat but crypto is much appreciated. This will save me rent a store space while I can move from place to another where I can find crowd.

[gantez]

You have made a future post that reference can be made to at the time we see mass adoption in crypto. I have no doubt that the time is already here with us.
However, I think reading through your post, you kind of gave the challenge at a point to small business and I think that can happen if the owner is already a hodler. I think the bulk of it relies on institutions.

[YuginKadoya]

In my opinion, large entrepreneurs business establish their own set of ways that if you would give the new ways in dealing with payments they will surely have a second thought and doubt the process, and in dealing with the unknown they will surely don't want any involvement all, But with fresh entrepreneurs I think they are ready  for the risk of the unknown and sometimes think you need to consider the knowledge of the individual with cryptocurrency and Bitcoin to get someone to comfy with you, I think this is the reason behind it,

But I say good luck in finding them and establish many adopters as you could, it will be a win-win for them and us.

[dothebeats]

Most of the time, small merchants are the ones who are proactively selling stuff for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Large retail companies are out there, still trying to see the feasibility of accepting crypto payments all the while small lads are taking the risks. You'll get better chances of convincing one small shop to accept crypto payments than to set an appointment to a large one.

Here on where I'm at, small tech shops have been accepting bitcoin since 2017, and are still doing it til today. Several lubs in the metros are accepting crypto payments as well, though integrated within a third-party wallet service.

[bitvalak]

So I'm gearing up for a bit of a road trip and will be passing through a couple major centers in my country. Now I seem to recall a few years back especially leading into the 2017 FOMO that quite a few retail outlets had started taking BTC, LTC and maybe a few others. There are articles going back a few years where there were some restaurants that had adopted the practice as well. Now I don't know how many of them set up their own wallets, or if they used a gateway service to convert crypto and be paid in FIAT. The problem is this is on the steep decline, and it doesn't seem like retail is interested. I am struggling to find a shop I can show up and pay for something with crypto.

I get it if large retailers aren't interested. Why would they it's more work for them and training. However a small business running with minimal staff could esaily adopt the practice. Ideally they would manage their own wallet and become a coiner themselves. Hell even just holding back 3-5% in the coins themselves and converting the rest would be a nice step in the right direction.

Personally I'm hoping to have a convo or 2 with any small shop I stop in at just to see what their thoughts are on the matter. It will be a small percentage that might be interested, but I feel entrepreneurs in general to be the sort that would jump into this. I'm not giving up and have a lead on a couple spots that I might be able to make this happen, if so I'm hoping to get some insight from the owners about how they got into it and why they stayed with it.

Side note I do think I found a furniture store a few hours away from me that takes payment in Crypto. I'll be trying to find out more about them as well.

I see that a large retailer is already in a comfort zone where he doesn't need such technology.
In contrast to small businesses that always want to make an innovation where technology is used to make their business more efficient.
But I'm sure that one day large retailers will also switch to the technology because of their own consumer demand.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Holding serves a purpose and makes sense.

Sure, but it does nothing to drive adoption. Without adoption there is no demand, and without demand the price would be zero. The people who are actually using bitcoin for what it was intended - a currency - are the ones driving long term and sustainable price growth. Without them, we would only see wild fluctuations driven by speculation, with a long term trend towards zero. People who are only interested in holding should at least consider buying a little extra to use as spending money whenever they are adding to their holdings.

It would be hard for retailers to implement this without exposing themselves to major volatility risks.

I'd hardly call it a "major" volatility risk. There's a risk, sure, but a business which is accepting bitcoin to their own wallet could quite easily mitigate this by transferring to an exchange and selling multiple times a day if they so desired with minimal effort.

Still, at the end of the day, these third party payment processors, for all their flaws, do serve as a "stepping stone" for businesses to start accepting bitcoin. As much as I think businesses would be better served just accepting bitcoin directly themselves, I do concede that these payment processors are helping to drive adoption.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Side note I do think I found a furniture store a few hours away from me that takes payment in Crypto.

Cool.  I don't know how that will help your road trip, but the more businesses that accept bitcoin the better.

Holding serves a purpose and makes sense.

Sure, but it does nothing to drive adoption. Without adoption there is no demand, and without demand the price would be zero.

That isn't true, though.  There's plenty of demand in the face of very little adoption, which is why the price of bitcoin is close to $8000 as opposed to zero, which is where it began life in 2008-09.  As a related example, people might not be using gold dubloons to purchase beer, but that doesn't mean the gold market is dead or that gold doesn't have value.  

You have made a future post that reference can be made to at the time we see mass adoption in crypto.

No idea what that means.  Don't care, either.

[Steamtyme]

It would be hard for retailers to implement this without exposing themselves to major volatility risks. work.

They would definitely need some consultation early on, especially if they are completely green. Though after the fact it's simple, especially say in Canada. There are 2 processors that I can think of at the moment who have been above board for quite some time, and are not exchanges so that's a bonus. Prices and fees are reasonable. For volatility they could easily choose to set their daily rate in the morning, and run off that. Depending on their volume they can cash out immediately, or a couple times a day. Volatility should become less of an issue as time moves forward as well. So far a new start-up on tight margins I would suggest they convert most of it and often, especially if BTC makes up a large part of their sales, but other than that I think it would be a small enough percentage to start that most businesses could whether the volatility especially if they only retain a small portion of what they take in.

I'd like to sell some some products as well where I can travel 3-5 miles to the city where I can park my van and sell my merchandise for BTC. I'd still accept fiat but crypto is much appreciated. This will save me rent a store space while I can move from place to another where I can find crowd.

Do it for sure. If there is a marketplace or trade fair whatever it happens to be. If nothing else you might gain visibility by having the offering available. Hell if I didn't live in a rural community I would do the same at a garage sale. I've already placed it as an accepted method on some of the local for sale boards. If nothing else gives you something to talk about. I'm going to try and pay my electrician in BTC next time he comes over, sounded interested last time we spoke about it.

People who are only interested in holding should at least consider buying a little extra to use as spending money whenever they are adding to their holdings.

I agree 100%, I just think that savings is important in any system. Some people just take it to far. I'm not interested in seeing a 6 figure BTC when people have 1000's at their disposal. I legitimately hope we see a period in time where these large holders begin to spend or sell off portions of their holdings. It's just not very appealing when there are such dominating balances out there.

Still, at the end of the day, these third party payment processors, for all their flaws, do serve as a "stepping stone" for businesses to start accepting bitcoin.

We would be drastically further behind without them. They are similar to a custodial wallet in that way. It's great for learning but you hope that people evolve their understanding and grow, as opposed to becoming complacent.

Cool.  I don't know how that will help your road trip, but the more businesses that accept bitcoin the better.

I guess a cheap mattress and the back of the Van. I think I'm getting to old to pull that one anymore though. Definitely just a cool find the more I decided to look into the utility of BTC for everyday life.

[squatter]

So I'm gearing up for a bit of a road trip and will be passing through a couple major centers in my country. Now I seem to recall a few years back especially leading into the 2017 FOMO that quite a few retail outlets had started taking BTC, LTC and maybe a few others. There are articles going back a few years where there were some restaurants that had adopted the practice as well. Now I don't know how many of them set up their own wallets, or if they used a gateway service to convert crypto and be paid in FIAT. The problem is this is on the steep decline, and it doesn't seem like retail is interested. I am struggling to find a shop I can show up and pay for something with crypto.

In my view, the best hope for merchant adoption in the intermediate term is through apps like SPEDN. It's easy for merchants because it can be implemented in any standard POS terminal (no added costs), it's intuitive with scanner/QR code, and Gemini handles the conversion on the back end. It's pretty revolutionary compared to things like Bitpay invoices and time-consuming on-chain transactions, or a costly Lightning node setup when hardly any customers are asking for it.