Best way to mix bitcoins

[Wind_FURY]

I found a topic created by Theymos where he suggests to use two mixing methods. Interestingly enough, mixers/tumblers are not in this small list.

[Guide] Decent mixing methods

Because centralized mixing services are 3rd party security holes.

In JoinMarket, you can be a liquidity provider and earn Bitcoins in form of fees, https://joinmarket.me/

[pooya87]

What's the best way to get bitcoins to monero and then back to bitcoins? is Exodus safe?

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

[ser7878]

I have never used any mixing strategies or any mixing service provider for that matter as I am seeing no need on my part of adopting the same. Just curious: Why you think you should be doing some mixing or using a mixing site? Is it because you are hiding something, a very common assumption? Or you are just so concern about your privacy and that you are not allowing anyone including the governmental forces to see your Bitcoin trails? Please share...

I guess he wants to be as private as possible (for any reason he wants)
But also wise mixing can be quite profitable

[DoublerHunter]

is Exodus safe?

^ Probably as of now I will consider that wallet belongs to the safer wallet but I will not hold my cryptocurrency assets there in the long run.
Try to visit this link to view more tumbling sites services offered, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827109.0. It looks like updated timely by the OP because I saw newly bitcoin mixer sites.

I am thinking of using Monero to wasabi to chipmixer to new bitcoin wallet?

is this a good route to go for bitcoin anonymity?

^ Yes you can, but you will also suffer the fees or probably compute it which better cheaper and less hassle.

[figmentofmyass]

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

that sounds about right. i've seen it fluctuate between 1-2% over binance.

i guess that's the price we pay for the privilege of not needing accounts, and not worrying about elliptic, cyphertrace, et al.

you also don't need to pay the typical exchange withdrawal fee (eg 0.0005 BTC at binance) which claws back a bit of the profits taken by instant exchangers like flyp.me.

[stomachgrowls]

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

that sounds about right. i've seen it fluctuate between 1-2% over binance.

i guess that's the price we pay for the privilege of not needing accounts, and not worrying about elliptic, cyphertrace, et al.

you also don't need to pay the typical exchange withdrawal fee (eg 0.0005 BTC at binance) which claws back a bit of the profits taken by instant exchangers like flyp.me.

Not bad even if they do have that fee amount yet you wont be hassled into those things like creating accounts etc. First time on hearing Flyp.me
Just to ask if this service would accept deposits from contract address like from exchangers or other wallet platforms?
I do have horrible experience wayback with shapeshift for my deposit didnt push through.

[Patatas]

I would like to know the best way to mix bitcoins. So far, I have read about converting to monero and then back to btc, I have read about using exodus wallet and then also seen the service of blender.io. I am not sure which service to use as it has been a very long time now since I have used a tumbling service, I would like to know which would be best to use.

You might think people are recommending ChipMixer because they are getting paid for the signature campaigns but from my perspective, you should be using them as they're around for a long time and wouldn't run away with your money. I'm not quite sure how much of anonymity you'd get after using their service but that's something I'll leave someone else to answer. Converting to Monero and back to BTC isn't really mixing your coins the right way.

[figmentofmyass]

You might think people are recommending ChipMixer because they are getting paid for the signature campaigns but from my perspective, you should be using them as they're around for a long time and wouldn't run away with your money. I'm not quite sure how much of anonymity you'd get after using their service but that's something I'll leave someone else to answer. Converting to Monero and back to BTC isn't really mixing your coins the right way.

every method has drawbacks. chipmixer has superior liquidity and excellent tumbling procedure but you must trust them 1. not to keep logs and 2. to custody your funds while using it. in fact, the longer you hold their generated private keys (trusting them not to steal them), the better the privacy guarantees:

You are free to sweep it yourself, ask us to send it to your address or keep it on chip for a while. Only the last option keeps your funds vunerable to our dishonesty, but it also extends your privacy. If you sweep funds from chip in first 12h after your input, you receive same privacy as you would get from standard mixer. If you trust us (as you already did when you sent coins into mixer) and spend chip when you need it, then you achive maximum privacy you can get.

theymos made a guide about mixing earlier this year and swapping to monero was his #2 choice. it's probably the most expensive option if using instant exchangers.

one drawback of wasabi wallet is that it's blatantly obvious you are using a coinjoin because it enforces a 100-anonymity set. another is the ~0.1BTC minimum. it's definitely cheaper than swapping to monero though.

[BitcoinsGreat]

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

[Wind_FURY]

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

[Ridwan Fauzi]

This thread 2020 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumbler Websites will guide you to choose a bitcoin tumbler/mixing service.

And there are some reviews who made by users which can make easy for you to choose.

[figmentofmyass]

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

[Wind_FURY]

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

This is true, liquidity has been a problem with the more non-centralized way of doing things. Like BISQ, it's avoided, users prefer the centralized exchanges.

But what are we here for? What path should we take?

[Iyanjr]

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

This is true, liquidity has been a problem with the more non-centralized way of doing things. Like BISQ, it's avoided, users prefer the centralized exchanges.

But what are we here for? What path should we take?

Sorry, but I missed a part where liquidity connects with mixing part of coins/tokens
Could you please describe a process? thx a lot in advance

[figmentofmyass]

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

This is true, liquidity has been a problem with the more non-centralized way of doing things. Like BISQ, it's avoided, users prefer the centralized exchanges.

But what are we here for? What path should we take?

the bitcoin way of doing things is to create economic incentives to achieve desired behavior, then to let the free market run its course. i believe (and hope) that signature aggregation will provide those incentives. it ought to because transaction size will be drastically reduced vs conventional multi-sig. centralized mixers will then become even more uneconomical by comparison. that should drive more and more liquidity towards coinjoins, which will in turn make more private coinjoins (with smaller anonymity sets) possible.

[figmentofmyass]

one drawback of wasabi wallet is that it's blatantly obvious you are using a coinjoin because it enforces a 100-anonymity set. another is the ~0.1BTC minimum. it's definitely cheaper than swapping to monero though.

wasabi wallet's obviousness has bitten at least one user. his withdrawals from binance singapore were suspended pending a KYC questionnaire after analysis revealed withdrawals to wasabi from his account. https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552

CZ responded and seems to be implying this is specific to the singapore operation. https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1207825158783696896

Binance SG operates under the requirements set forth by MAS and our MAS regulated partner, Xfers. Hence there are AML CFT controls set in place.

Not something for us to decide.

either way, i would use something better than wasabi wallet to mix your coins.

[Wind_FURY]

one drawback of wasabi wallet is that it's blatantly obvious you are using a coinjoin because it enforces a 100-anonymity set. another is the ~0.1BTC minimum. it's definitely cheaper than swapping to monero though.

wasabi wallet's obviousness has bitten at least one user. his withdrawals from binance singapore were suspended pending a KYC questionnaire after analysis revealed withdrawals to wasabi from his account. https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552

CZ responded and seems to be implying this is specific to the singapore operation. https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1207825158783696896

Binance SG operates under the requirements set forth by MAS and our MAS regulated partner, Xfers. Hence there are AML CFT controls set in place.

Not something for us to decide.

either way, i would use something better than wasabi wallet to mix your coins.

If the "something better" requires third party trust, I would suggest, be fair and inform newbies that they have a choice with a trust-minimized option. The choice is theirs.

[figmentofmyass]

wasabi wallet's obviousness has bitten at least one user. his withdrawals from binance singapore were suspended pending a KYC questionnaire after analysis revealed withdrawals to wasabi from his account. https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552

CZ responded and seems to be implying this is specific to the singapore operation. https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1207825158783696896

Binance SG operates under the requirements set forth by MAS and our MAS regulated partner, Xfers. Hence there are AML CFT controls set in place.

Not something for us to decide.

either way, i would use something better than wasabi wallet to mix your coins.

If the "something better" requires third party trust, I would suggest, be fair and inform newbies that they have a choice with a trust-minimized option. The choice is theirs.

i already did that upthread.

sadly, just as with the DEX vs CEX question, the decentralized options are severely lacking. the above case is a real world example of why we need to be smarter about decentralized tumbling. wasabi needs to up their game and make their coinjoins less obvious. we need randomized or user-set ranges for anonymity sets, otherwise this shit will keep happening.

[Wind_FURY]

wasabi wallet's obviousness has bitten at least one user. his withdrawals from binance singapore were suspended pending a KYC questionnaire after analysis revealed withdrawals to wasabi from his account. https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552

CZ responded and seems to be implying this is specific to the singapore operation. https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1207825158783696896

Binance SG operates under the requirements set forth by MAS and our MAS regulated partner, Xfers. Hence there are AML CFT controls set in place.

Not something for us to decide.

either way, i would use something better than wasabi wallet to mix your coins.

If the "something better" requires third party trust, I would suggest, be fair and inform newbies that they have a choice with a trust-minimized option. The choice is theirs.

i already did that upthread.

sadly, just as with the DEX vs CEX question, the decentralized options are severely lacking. the above case is a real world example of why we need to be smarter about decentralized tumbling. wasabi needs to up their game and make their coinjoins less obvious. we need randomized or user-set ranges for anonymity sets, otherwise this shit will keep happening.

I accept that. But without the community helping test open source projects out, or report bugs/issues, they won't go anywhere.

[keyscore44]

I see that everyone is talking about officially known mixers on the market, but I do not know if anyone has already mentioned a fairly simple way .. I just use Coinbase to mix my coins.
I don't know what level of effectiveness it is and how difficult it would be to find the source of the coins, but so far I'm fine with this.