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Author Topic: Is this against the rules? Indirect referral link spamming.  (Read 518 times)
UserU
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December 22, 2019, 04:18:03 PM
 #21

I see many refcode threads located in Off-Topic, with someone recently promoting free 15 Euros by purchasing 15 Euros worth of Bitcoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5210287.0

I feel that this kind should belong to the Micro Earnings subforum though.

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December 22, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
 #22

I'm leaning more to our 24th rule which is about illegal advertisements in posts rather than the rule about ref links since the websites gocryptowise is promoting are in his own and I wouldn't consider that as a "referral" if he owns the websites he is promoting such as gocryptomarket and he isn't promoting it for someone else. 

24. Advertisements (including signatures within the post area) in posts aren't allowed unless the post is in a thread you started and is really substantial and useful.[9][e]

Visiting the links he also provided doesn't show any kind of referral links under it just the website's url itself with no additional characters hinting to a referral link.

gocryptomarket
Code:
https://gocryptomarket.com/

Beginners guide to crypto
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/best-way-to-investing-in-cryptocurrency-guide/

So really this isn't about violating the no referral link rule since he owns the website and what he could be breaking is more about our 24th rule about illegal advertisements where he just post links to websites/articles directly affiliated to him.

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December 22, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
Last edit: November 15, 2023, 02:05:29 AM by HCP
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #23

Visiting the links he also provided doesn't show any kind of referral links under it just the website's url itself with no additional characters hinting to a referral link.
But that's the thing... he is using referral links... they're just hidden via redirects. I'm always a bit suspicious of any site that appears to be "linking" to an external site, but the initial link is on the internal domain.

For instance... on this page:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/best-way-to-investing-in-cryptocurrency-guide/

There is a list of exchanges:


And the URLs look "innocent" enough:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/Coinbase_exchange2
https://gocryptowise.com/OKEx-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/Localbitcoins-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/Kucoin-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/eToro-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/binance-exchange

Until you click on them and then look at the redirects:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/Coinbase_exchange2
-> https://coinbase-consumer.sjv.io/VdPnM
-> http://www.coinbase.com/?clickId=xuvxqHXZ8xyJU8nwUx0Mo3kzUknUi2Q0KwpXWE0&utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Go%20Cryptowise&utm_content=552039&utm_creative=Online%20Tracking%20Link&irgwc=1


https://gocryptowise.com/OKEx-exchange
-> https://www.okex.com/account/register?flag=activity&channelId=1809297


https://gocryptowise.com/Localbitcoins-exchange
-> https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=ye3k


https://gocryptowise.com/Kucoin-exchange
->https://www.kucoin.com/?rcode=e17u5g


https://gocryptowise.com/eToro-exchange
-> http://partners.etoro.com/A77112_TClick.aspx


https://gocryptowise.com/binance-exchange
-> https://www.binance.com/?ref=10787692


The same thing happens further down, with the list of "Coin Tracking/Tax" Tools:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/cointracking-tax
-> https://cointracking.info/?ref=P107214


https://gocryptowise.com/cointracker-tax
-> https://www.cointracker.io/i/sBtqhMfbbIAh


https://gocryptowise.com/cryptotrader-tax
-> http://cryptotrader.tax/?fp_ref=yxj84


In light of this, and having had a good sleep, I've reconsidered my opinion... this sort of shit is even worse than direct referral linking... especially given that the user is basically just posting it everywhere where they think it is even vaguely relevant...


Almost all the topics that include "Read the full article at...... " deserve to be deleted.
^--- THIS

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o_e_l_e_o (OP)
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December 23, 2019, 06:11:42 AM
 #24

this sort of shit is even worse than direct referral linking
Exactly. He obviously knows referral links are against the rules, so he's taking deliberate steps to evade the rules and trick users in to unknowingly click on his links.

Anyway, I reported a bunch of his posts for breaking the "advertising in other users' theeads" rule, and they were all trashed.

I also reported one of his topics for being both insubstantial advertising and linking to referral link spam, and it was also trashed.

So it seems there is at least one mod out there who agrees with my initial post. I am therefore going to continue to report this kind of nonsense when I see it. Hopefully other mods also agree; wouldn't want to lose my 100% reporting score. Smiley
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December 23, 2019, 11:01:14 AM
 #25

Almost all the topics that include "Read the full article at...... " deserve to be deleted.
^--- THIS

I agree with this, but there is an exception to the Press board where news should be posted (related to Bitcoin only). I also don't see anything wrong with sharing a quality article from time to time, but those who do it constantly with the intention of promoting certain web pages should be punished in an exemplary manner.

Let's take an example of a user cheezcarls and let's look at his post history, does anyone see anything strange? I see a person who is paid to promote a specific web site. I try to report it as advertising, and as content that should be posted in Press board, but all my reports stay unhandled.

Also, the user in question is rewarded with merits from some prominent forum members, which just gives him the incentive to move on with what he's doing. Should I mention that this user does not participate in the discussions he initiates at all.


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December 23, 2019, 03:06:55 PM
 #26

But that's the thing... he is using referral links... they're just hidden via redirects. I'm always a bit suspicious of any site that appears to be "linking" to an external site, but the initial link is on the internal domain.

For instance... on this page:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/best-way-to-investing-in-cryptocurrency-guide/

There is a list of exchanges:


And the URLs look "innocent" enough:
Code:
https://gocryptowise.com/Coinbase_exchange2
https://gocryptowise.com/OKEx-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/Localbitcoins-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/Kucoin-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/eToro-exchange
https://gocryptowise.com/binance-exchange

Until you click on them and then look at the redirects:
~snip

In light of this, and having had a good sleep, I've reconsidered my opinion... this sort of shit is even worse than direct referral linking... especially given that the user is basically just posting it everywhere where they think it is even vaguely relevant...

Honestly I didn't notice the referral links hidden in gocryptowise's articles but if we are trying to understand the rules here in the forum, it is saying referral links directly posted in the forum not from the websites being promoted here. It's a hard thing to say but he had a brilliant way of showing the ref links by not violating any rule and that is really a bad thing to see. So we either wait for him to refer scam/hyip sites for him to get tagged or take our chances on him doing illegal advertising.

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December 23, 2019, 03:43:07 PM
 #27

I put ref links on most of my sites, and it helps to pay for the domains and hosting. I host my own images, and I put links on the gallery sites as well. Hopefully my posts are useful, and I'm not considered to be a link or banner farmer. I'm not sure where the line is drawn,

There is a far more blatant tactic, and that is to post a Bitcoin wallet address and to ask for tips in a signature. I'm not against that either, as it is up to the reader to decide if the poster should be rewarded.

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December 23, 2019, 05:29:44 PM
 #28

I put ref links on most of my sites, and it helps to pay for the domains and hosting. I host my own images, and I put links on the gallery sites as well. Hopefully my posts are useful, and I'm not considered to be a link or banner farmer. I'm not sure where the line is drawn,

There is a far more blatant tactic, and that is to post a Bitcoin wallet address and to ask for tips in a signature. I'm not against that either, as it is up to the reader to decide if the poster should be rewarded.

If the post is useful, I think it's fine to plug once in a while. Of course not every post must be accompanied with a link.

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January 06, 2020, 11:59:52 PM
Last edit: January 07, 2020, 12:16:19 AM by Welsh
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (5), DdmrDdmr (2)
 #29

This is my take on it, but other moderators will likely have differing opinions; Only substantial posts should contain a advertisement. There is a difference of linking to a source, and linking to an advertisement. If the user owns the site then its far more likely to be an advertisement, and not a genuine source. However, this should be determined on a case by case basis, and factors that would contribute to determining whether this is okay or not is by quality of their content within the post on the forum, and how often they link to this resource. As linking semi regular would indicate that they're the owner of the website, and they are merely posting to advertisement, although if its a substantial thread then this may still be allowed. It entirely depends on the individual case that we are presented with.

For example, Sally posts a link to a website which contains referral links, but is not a direct referral link, and does not continue to do this multiple times, and is a one off. I would consider this fine as long as its relevant to the discussion, and they offer insightful information within the contents of their post and aren't just linking to a source. At this point, it doesn't matter to me whether they own the site or not. If its useful, and isn't a direct referral link then its fine. However, it needs to be a substantial post for this to apply. To give you an example of my example; If someone posts within the service discussion section asking for reviews of the top exchanges. A user gives their own constructive opinion on it, and then links to another source which provides reviews from another source on the internet, which happens to have indirect referral links. Using my discretion I'd probably allow this if first of all the post itself was substantial, and it wasn't a direct referral.

However, I believe this should change as soon as this is a regular occurrence of a user, and they're offering low quality posts while plugging a certain website every chance they get. I treat linking to news articles the same, as a lot of users are now trying to get traffic to their website without posting on the forum for discussion. They simply quote a small bit of the article, link to it, and then never return to the discussion, and start the process all over again for their next article. I usually remove these types of threads, especially if there's alternative discussion on the forum already.  

Although, this will be entirely at the discretion of the moderator handling the report as we all have different interpretations of post quality, and determining a users intentions when posting a link.

However, if you are using the forum as a publishing platform to host something really substantial and useful, selling ads in that substantial work is allowed. To be eligible for this, your post must be in a topic that you started, and your post must be substantial and long enough to make the ad seem entirely insignificant. If in doubt, ask me.
Before I proceed with my explanation, my personal interpretation from this quote is that theymos is talking specifically about threads that the user created themselves that contain advertisements.

This is the policy that I try to abide by when it comes to these types of posts. Note that, theymos talks about hosting content on the forum which requires the post itself on the forum to be significant, and substantial. However, I'll admit that indirect referral links can sometimes be tricky. If a user replies to another user trying to help them, and links to a resource which includes a referral link within the page then it should probably be removed. However, if they have posted a significant thread of their own, then it should probably be taken on a case by case basis.

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January 07, 2020, 08:53:28 AM
 #30

Thanks, Welsh. Your explanation and examples are along the same lines as my feelings on the matter, but it's good to have confirmation that I'm on the right tracks (appreciating that staff opinions may differ).

However, I believe this should change as soon as this is a regular occurrence of a user, and they're offering low quality posts while plugging a certain website every chance they get.
I think this is the important point. I have no problem with odd link to their own site, even if it is filled with referral links, provided it is on topic and not entirely useless. My problem with the user I have discussed in this thread is that >90% of his posts contained links to his site. It's obvious he's crossed the line and is just spamming the forum as free advertising. The same applies in the Press Board, as is being discussed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215072.msg53538356#msg53538356. These users obviously have no interest in discussing - they just post their advertising link and move on. I'll be sure to mention in future reports for these kinds of issues if the user in question is repeatedly engaging in this spammy behavior, as opposed to it being a one-off.

My only other gripe is that it seems to take an awful lot of this kind of behavior (thinking particularly of the Press Board spammers) before we ban a user.
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January 07, 2020, 09:25:48 PM
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 #31

My only other gripe is that it seems to take an awful lot of this kind of behavior (thinking particularly of the Press Board spammers) before we ban a user.
If I believed the user was abusing this fact I'd likely seek a global moderators or admins opinion unless it was absolutely obvious. If it was borderline, and there's varying factors to consider I probably wouldn't ban them myself even if they were a newbie. This is a highly subjective situation, and I believe having a second opinion would be beneficial in borderline cases. I would probably remove the posts, unless either theymos states otherwise or another staff member presents compelling counter arguments to my reasoning.

You can report the posts, and see what sort of feedback you get. If you report enough of them, then its likely not going to just be one moderator handling it, and you could probably gauge whether you want to continue to report them. I can't really give you an example of my interpretation of this act as its very much so on a case by case basis.
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