Bitcoin cannot be decentralized if the Internet is centralized

[Eclipse26]

Let's put it in another situation like this... It's like you're saying you can't achieve freedom because there is government controlling you with laws. But in reality, you still have freedom even if there's rules and regulations. Same situation with it. You cannot say that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can't be decentralized just because internet is centralized. I disagree with this. You use internet with crypto. Even if others can control the internet, it doesn't mean they can control cryptocurrency since they are still decentralized in nature.

[Twentyonepaylots]

Let's put it in another situation like this... It's like you're saying you can't achieve freedom because there is government controlling you with laws. But in reality, you still have freedom even if there's rules and regulations. Same situation with it. You cannot say that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can't be decentralized just because internet is centralized. I disagree with this. You use internet with crypto. Even if others can control the internet, it doesn't mean they can control cryptocurrency since they are still decentralized in nature.

The internet might be centralized but this doesn't mean that bitcoin isn't decentralized too. Bitcoins are accessible with the use of internet but the technology supporting and improving bitcoin is what makes it decentralized. Moreover, internet is divided into several "servers" to support and to offer the fastest assistance so in a sense the internet is decentralized too.

[jostorres]

Well that's probably one of the little flaws or risks. Internet existed long ago before bitcoin arrived. Bitcoin is actually born through internet. For now it really just being part of the system and we cannot deny the fact that we are really under the internet era. They have established it already and there are lots of factors to consider to decentralized internet. But I think there are geniuses who can think of ways to make it happen.

Surely there are a number of geniuses who would find some or the other war but I can actually not find any huge problem being this. as OP said, even if the Internet is Centralized it runs the Decentralized currencies commonly known as the Cryptocurrencies so it is not yet a problem.

Also, I do not think that any of the entities like the government of the ISP's might ever ruin the running and circulation of the decentralized currencies form the World Wide Web entirely as there are a number of things which could be used to keep the usage of cryptocurrencies into circulation. Internet is huge now and I do not really believe that someone might really have the access to each and every corner of internet so it might not be something to worry for us.

[keeee]

Let's put it in another situation like this... It's like you're saying you can't achieve freedom because there is government controlling you with laws. But in reality, you still have freedom even if there's rules and regulations. Same situation with it. You cannot say that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can't be decentralized just because internet is centralized. I disagree with this. You use internet with crypto. Even if others can control the internet, it doesn't mean they can control cryptocurrency since they are still decentralized in nature.

I agree if bitcoin was centralized I think lot of people will lose interest on it because someone can control the value of it.  Not because internet is centralized means they can also control cryptocurrency becuase it was different.  But without internet we cant access and used cryptocurrency.

[btcmurat]

Can the Internet become decentralized? This is possible but there may be a decrease in data transfer rates. Or the space is completely filled with internet satellites. This time the door of another system opens. I think this will happen. Bitcoin will also be fully independent.

[RealMalatesta]

Reading this, I somewhat have to believe you. But being centralized means being flicked by any of the association or the government which even gives full access to the usability of the Internet but we could see a lot of illegal things already going onto the internet today.

If the Internet was centralized than why would the governments not actually stop the use of such illegal concepts onto their so-maned Internet? We could see the use of Deep web, Tor, etc which is most harmful for the community but yet those are into existence which itself explains us that no one actually has the 100% control over the internet which actually does not make it centralized.

[Casdinyard]

Point taken. So, could you consider that if we have decentralized internet the percentage of hacking incident will decrease? I mean hackers wouldn't be able to easily pass through in the system or not? Or I'm just hallucinating about this. Lol!

Sure, nothing is impossible and we have good bitcoin developers so maybe eventually they'll have to consider about being real and fully decentralized of bitcoin.

[Debonaire217]

Point taken. So, could you consider that if we have decentralized internet the percentage of hacking incident will decrease? I mean hackers wouldn't be able to easily pass through in the system or not? Or I'm just hallucinating about this. Lol!

Sure, nothing is impossible and we have good bitcoin developers so maybe eventually they'll have to consider about being real and fully decentralized of bitcoin.

In the first place internet is really decentralized, we just have some providers or the internet service providers that help us to be connected to the internet that makes it centralized. But they seem to not provide sufficient security features at all. If you have an internet connection, most of the cases, you are making yourself vulnerable to hacking not because of centralization, but because of lacking the personal responsibility you should have to keep yourself secured.

[Cimmy_revenger]

I once read an article that sending bitcoin is possible without the internet.
what facility is used to send bitcoin without the internet is radio waves.
also possible to use satellite. if I remember the article I meant I would edit this post to put the URL link.

[Abiky]

This is the reason why the idea of a network inside a network was done. Some call it "deep" but its just another network, that can run on top of internet without being checked, controlled or blocked. The whole point these networks its to break from these.

Internet topology is actually decentralized, it was made so it could withstand nuclear attacks. You cannot destroy something in particular to stop it, tho the lazy way things have been running lately actually could cause major disruption, to those who weren't ready (ie. already using Tor, etc). Censor resistance is one way to view it, neither State nor private entities should be controlling you.

Something on internet could some better centralization, DNS for starters. While not strictly necessary, few people know the IP number of some basic sites, in case DNS goes haywire. So you could start replacing that by not using the "main" DNS (alternatives do exist). And so on we could go with each of the elements.

If things go really bad, Bitcoin could go "deep", and it still would work running in a network that runs safe on top of the unsafe network. This scenario is already improbable on a worldwide level, its possible in some countries. A more proper description is just running nodes and pools as tor hidden services or their equivalent in similar networks (freenode, etc). But this is a worst case scenario which seems to have already been overcome. Still, there ARE nodes running in there...

Can you use internet without Google? Yes you can. It takes discipline but you can completely get rid of Google from your life. Centralized social networks are even easier, its only the stubborn contacts that won't just use decentralized alternatives.

Good point. Where there's a will, there's a way. With many alternatives networks & protocols available today, it's possible that one could interact with the Bitcoin blockchain under the radar of ISPs, and mainstream governments alike. The Internet is just a global network of interconnected computers by different means (LAN or WLAN). The average Joe could easily setup his own Internet by connecting different computers between each other. In the public Internet, one could use a combination of VPN and Tor (or any other alternative network) to obfuscate potentially identifiable information. The tech world is constantly evolving, and now we have ways to communicate off-grid without the need to use the mainstream Internet at all. I've seen how it's possible to send/receive Bitcoin transactions over radio waves and even satellites. You can also interact with Bitcoin using mesh network antennas.

It's true that we can use the Internet without relying on mainstream companies such as Google or Facebook. But we cannot deny that avoiding these companies, would make our life much more complicated than we've ever imagined. Sometimes centralized services exist to make our life much easier. You'd have to choose between convenience/ease of use or decentralization/censorship-resistance. Most people will choose convenience over censorship-resistance as they prefer everything to be done in the least amount of time (and in an easier way) possible. But you and me, would choose the latter option as we'd get to keep control of our utmost personal and financial information. As long as there's diversity in cyber space, there's nothing to worry about. In all ends, Bitcoin can still be used in a decentralized fashion even though the Internet is somewhat centralized. Just my thoughts

[LorenoCoin]

Reading this, I somewhat have to believe you. But being centralized means being flicked by any of the association or the government which even gives full access to the usability of the Internet but we could see a lot of illegal things already going onto the internet today.

If the Internet was centralized than why would the governments not actually stop the use of such illegal concepts onto their so-maned Internet? We could see the use of Deep web, Tor, etc which is most harmful for the community but yet those are into existence which itself explains us that no one actually has the 100% control over the internet which actually does not make it centralized.

Governments are always looking for ways to control every system, especially financial ones, cryptocurrencies have gotten out of hand a little. I think that even using VPNs, proxy or the famous Deepweb there may be a kind of "centralization" because if a person commits a crime there are security agencies that are responsible for monitoring (FBI),
if they want to get you, they will do it anyway

I personally think that cryptocurrencies are: centralized for people with little furtive knowledge, and decentralized for those who manage well in places like deepweb. (speaking of avoiding all contact with the system) from the daily point of view they are decentralized because we know that it is managed by a network of nodes that connect blocks with mathematical codes that change hash each time it fulfills its function. a centralized cryptocurrency could be a stable-coin / fiat currency.

[FanatMonet]

I agree with the author.
Bitcoin is connected to the Internet, nothing can be done about it. Of course, there are paper wallets with bitcoins, but how to check them without the Internet? They may be complete or may be empty.
And if you suddenly do not have an Internet connection, then your bitcoins become practically nothing, they exist, but you cannot spend them.

[Wipeout2097]

No doubt internet is a reason for creation of BITCOIN but the programming and networking of BTC is totally different,Internet is just a source for operations of Bitcoin but there is no any direct relativity to control the Bitcoin.

Bitcoin itself bank,an asset,medium of exchange at the same time,Uniqueness of Bitcoin is that still no one can control it.It is a system that can bring more revolution in the financial market.

[Webetcoins]

No doubt internet is a reason for creation of BITCOIN but the programming and networking of BTC is totally different,Internet is just a source for operations of Bitcoin but there is no any direct relativity to control the Bitcoin.

Bitcoin itself bank,an asset,medium of exchange at the same time,Uniqueness of Bitcoin is that still no one can control it.It is a system that can bring more revolution in the financial market.

No authority, no bank, not even internet can control Bitcoin. Internet is the biggest medium used by the Bitcoin for its working but I recently read somewhere that we will be able to make Bitcoin transactions without internet soon. As it is developing there will be time when it will not be dependent on internet anymore. People will be able to use it with Bluetooth and all other non-internet connections.

[salad daging]

No authority, no bank, not even internet can control Bitcoin. Internet is the biggest medium used by the Bitcoin for its working but I recently read somewhere that we will be able to make Bitcoin transactions without internet soon. As it is developing there will be time when it will not be dependent on internet anymore. People will be able to use it with Bluetooth and all other non-internet connections.

it still cannot be tested offline using technology other than the internet, security protocols will not be better, and the range of the transmitter also cannot be expanded and only applies in a limited area. I haven't read a more concrete technology other than the development of the internet in more decentralized media such as the use of blockstreams and similar technologies.

[Ucy]

No authority, no bank, not even internet can control Bitcoin. Internet is the biggest medium used by the Bitcoin for its working but I recently read somewhere that we will be able to make Bitcoin transactions without internet soon. As it is developing there will be time when it will not be dependent on internet anymore. People will be able to use it with Bluetooth and all other non-internet connections.

it still cannot be tested offline using technology other than the internet, security protocols will not be better, and the range of the transmitter also cannot be expanded and only applies in a limited area. I haven't read a more concrete technology other than the development of the internet in more decentralized media such as the use of blockstreams and similar technologies.

How about everyone sending internet balloons in the sky (community owned internet?) in prearranged way to revolve around the earth & send/receive data around isolated communities without internet? This could help decentralize the internet, I guess. There are probably other cheap ways to create community-owned internet that's more suitable for Bitcoin/crypto & function in a decentralized manner around the world.

[Abiky]

How about everyone sending internet balloons in the sky (community owned internet?) in prearranged way to revolve around the earth & send/receive data around isolated communities without internet? This could help decentralize the internet, I guess. There are probably other cheap ways to create community-owned internet that's more suitable for Bitcoin/crypto & function in a decentralized manner around the world.

That sounds like a great idea. But I wonder if people will be interested in making this happen? So far, most people don't care about centralization issues as long as they're able to "get the work done". Bitcoin works great with the current public Internet infrastructure despite leading to a certain level of centralization. For paranoic crypto enthusiasts, alternative networks seem to be the way to go. For the average Joe, the public Internet will suffice for accessing the Bitcoin blockchain.

I believe that the more we work together towards making Bitcoin decentralized, the better it'll be for its longevity within the mainstream world. Too much centralization will lead towards failure in the long run. At least, the openness in Bitcoin's design allows anyone to develop new means to communicate with it without the need to rely on the public Internet infrastructure. It's now possible to send/receive Bitcoin transactions over radio waves, satellites, mesh networks, and more. As long as it's possible to disguise IPs of Bitcoin nodes from ISPs and worldwide governments, there's nothing to worry about. Just my thoughts

[FlightyPouch]

I agree with the author.
Bitcoin is connected to the Internet, nothing can be done about it. Of course, there are paper wallets with bitcoins, but how to check them without the Internet? They may be complete or may be empty.
And if you suddenly do not have an Internet connection, then your bitcoins become practically nothing, they exist, but you cannot spend them.

As far as I know, we have these offline wallets but I don't think that is that good since I don't see or hear anyone talking or using it anymore. Another thing is that we are accessing our bitcoins through our bitcoin wallets, a bitcoin wallet is our key to our bitcoin that is why we can't really do anything about it. Here's the thing though, you can still access your bitcoins even the government ban it in your country, it is not like they can stop you from accessing it.

[atjiat]

I agree with the author.
Bitcoin is connected to the Internet, nothing can be done about it. Of course, there are paper wallets with bitcoins, but how to check them without the Internet? They may be complete or may be empty.
And if you suddenly do not have an Internet connection, then your bitcoins become practically nothing, they exist, but you cannot spend them.

As far as I know, we have these offline wallets but I don't think that is that good since I don't see or hear anyone talking or using it anymore. Another thing is that we are accessing our bitcoins through our bitcoin wallets, a bitcoin wallet is our key to our bitcoin that is why we can't really do anything about it. Here's the thing though, you can still access your bitcoins even the government ban it in your country, it is not like they can stop you from accessing it.

One way or another, bitcoins can lose their independence, and cryptocurrency users do not anonymize because of the centralized Internet, but because the legalization of cryptocurrencies will enforce certain laws.  In addition, the use of the Internet to work with cryptocurrency, in particular with bitcoin, is only a connection and nothing more, since in some cases you can even use Bluetooth to complete a transaction, about which discussions are very hot today.

[gundala]

Can the Internet become decentralized? This is possible but there may be a decrease in data transfer rates. Or the space is completely filled with internet satellites. This time the door of another system opens. I think this will happen. Bitcoin will also be fully independent.

Of course it can. However, the internet is still decentralized, there is a VPN that you can use to overcome limitations and maintain privacy while using the internet. There are several internet protocols that try to innovate by utilizing the blockchain to create complete freedom on the internet, such as Tachyon, although it is still in a development project I think this should be appreciated because its supporters are strong. transmission acceleration can also be increased by tcp / ip reconstruction, it is effective and offers a good deal for users.