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Subark (OP)
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January 19, 2020, 01:17:28 PM
Last edit: April 16, 2024, 03:55:22 PM by Subark
#1

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January 19, 2020, 02:09:09 PM
Merited by dbshck (4), DdmrDdmr (1)
#2

Are you sure what are all the words and you just forgot the order?

I don't think there is much you can do. It is not easy to brute force it.

There are trillions of possibilities

24x23x22x21x20....

If that was so easy to recover a private key , nobody's coins would be safe.
I saw this post by Danny Hamilton from few years go (made google searche about your problem)

So, you have 24 words.

That means that you have 24 possibilities for the word in position number 1.

If you try each of those words in position number 1, that leaves 23 words to try in position number 2.

Try the first word, with each of the other 23 in the second position, then try the second word with each of the other 23 in the second position, then the third word with each of the other 23 in the second position and so on.

When you've done that, you'll have tried:24 X 23 = 552 different possibilities.

Each of those 552 possibilities will have 22 remaining words that you can try in the third position.

So that's:
552 X 22 = 12144 possible combinations of 3 out of the 24 words.
(Notice that's the same as 24 X 23 X 22 = 12144)

Then for each of those 12144 possibilities will have 21 remaining words that you can try in the third position

That's:
12144 X 21 = 255024 possible combinations of 4 out of the 24 words.
(Notice that's the same as 24 X 23 X 22  X 21= 255024)

Perhaps you can see now that as we continue, by the time you try all the 24 word combinations of 24 words, the pattern will repeat all the way to:
24 X 23 X 22 X 21 X 20 X 19 X 18 X 17 X 16 X 15 X 14 X 13 X 12 X 11 X 10 X 9 X 8 X 7 X 6 X 5 X 4 X 3 X 2 X 1 = ?
In maths that pattern is called a "factorial" and is represented as:
24!

If you do that multiplication, you'll find that the total number of combinations you'll have to try will be:
620448401733239439360000

That's about 6.2 X 1023.

Lets assume that you have enough computing power to try 100 trillion combinations per second.

620448401733239439360000 combinations / 100000000000000 combinatins per second = 6204484017 seconds.

Since there are 60 seconds in a minute, that is:
6204484017 seconds / 60 seconds per minute = 103408066 minutes.

There are 60 minutes in an hour, so:
103408066 minutes / 60 minutes per hour = 1723467 hours.

There are 24 hours in a day...
1723467 hours / 24 hours per day = 71811 days.

There are about 365.25 days per year...
71811 days / 365.25 days per year = 196.6 years.

If you actually had the ability to try 100 trillion combinations per second, then it's going to take you nearly 200 years of trying non-stop 24 hours a day to try all the combinations.

If the number of attempts you can make per second is less, then obviously it's going to take you longer than that.



The only way you are going to be able to find the right combination in your lifetime is if you already have some of the words in the right order, or if you can remember what order some of the words belong in.  Knowing for certain the position of just 1 word reduces the effort required by a factor of 24.  Knowing for certain the position of just 2 words reduces the effort by a factor of 552.

Using our "100 trillion combinations per second" example, knowing for certain the position of 1 word reduces the time required to try all possibilities from 196.6 years to:
196.6 / 24 = 8.2 years.

Knowing for certain the position of 2 words reduces the time required to try all possibilities to:
196.6 / 552 = 0.36 years (about 4.3 months)

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January 19, 2020, 02:18:30 PM
#3

As I understand it, he did not forget the phrases but some random phrase that he used as BrainWallet. How many sentences did you use to create the final phrase? Just so we know. The higher the number, the more difficult it is to test by varying the possibilities.
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January 19, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
#4

I have a brainwallet, but forgot the sequence of the phrases I used to form the passphrase.  What's the easiest thing i can use to figure this out.  Need something simple.

I do not know how will you recover this but i want to give you advice that someone might ask you to send the random in-sequence private key in order to help you. Just be sure not to share any details with anyone so that you are not scammed.

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January 19, 2020, 02:54:02 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), ABCbits (1)
#5

From my understanding, the OP is talking about a passphrase which is used for a brain wallet not a 24 word seed phrase. So this case is different from what DannyHamilton had posted about it before.
A passphrase which is used for creating a brain wallet (A private key and a public key) can have any length. So first we should know the number of words the OP had used for creating the wallet. Then we can calculate the chance to brute force the wallet.

For creating a brain wallet we can choose any thing. For example I can choose "bitcoin" as my passphrase. It has only one word (I can access my wallet with this 1 word passphrase, but it can be easily hacked)
The OP might have used a passphrase containing low words. In this case he/she can easily find the private key of the wallet.
Assume that the passphrase used by the OP contains only 5 words. In this case there are only 120 possibilities.

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January 19, 2020, 04:22:00 PM
#6

I have 6 strings of characters need to combine in some way to form the passphrase.  Might have only used 4 or 5 of them though, can't remember.

Can you be more specific, so we can help you out?
Do you have a set of 6 words, which you don't know the order? If that's the case, it is a lot easier:
6󬊄󫢪=720 only. Easy to brute force.

You are being very generic so it is hard to understand your problem.

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January 19, 2020, 04:38:40 PM
#7

I have 6 strings of characters need to combine in some way to form the passphrase.  Might have only used 4 or 5 of them though, can't remember.
This shouldn't be difficult with a command line script. Or you can even do it manually, in an hour got can check hundreds of combinations.

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January 19, 2020, 04:43:42 PM
#8

Do you have all the phrases with you but not in a sequence ? If so, then i think you can recover it easily because as soon as you write the next letter if gives you different option and you can choose from it. Here is an example screenshot.
Doesn't make sense even he writes the correct spelling or something recommendation while writing, if the order of the words/seed is not properly ordered then that's a big issue since different wallet address will be generated.
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January 19, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Last edit: January 19, 2020, 05:03:44 PM by hosseinimr93
#9

Doesn't make sense even he writes the correct spelling or something recommendation while writing, if the order of the words/seed is not properly ordered then that's a big issue since different wallet address will be generated.
If the OP has the public key, then it won't be difficult. I guess the OP has the public key. As the OP is trying to access that address, so he /she has likely deposited to that address before. The public key can be easily found by tracking previous deposits and withdrawals.
With a simple script ( or even manually) he/she can test different combinations and check whether the outcome matches the public key or not. As there are only 720 (6 factorial) possibilities, that's not difficult.

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January 19, 2020, 09:54:23 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#10

Not sure how to do all that, which is why I posted in the newbie section.  I have the public key.  

Go to the website you had used it before for creating your brain wallet.
Two websites I know for creating a brain wallet are bitaddress.org and brainwallet.io. As these two websites use different algorithms, they generate different addresses and different private keys. So, note that you must use the website you had used before.

As you said you have 6 words.
Let's assume these words are Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, blockchain, wallet, Block.
You should test different combinations of these words. For example Ethereum, Litcoin, Block, Bitcoin, blockchain, wallet.

Every time you enter a combination of these words, a public key and a private key is generated by the website or the application. Continue this until the generated public key matches the public key you have. Save the private key which was associated with that public key.  
Then you should import the private key into a wallet to access your bitcoins.  I recommend you to use Electrum.

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January 20, 2020, 04:33:04 AM
#11

I have 6 strings of characters need to combine in some way to form the passphrase.  Might have only used 4 or 5 of them though, can't remember.
This shouldn't be difficult with a command line script. Or you can even do it manually, in an hour got can check hundreds of combinations.

it depends on the method he used. there isn't any kind of standard for brainwallets as they aren't safe to use. one method is to simply hash it using SHA-2 and that method has sub-types that change the number of hashes they compute. in which case OP needs to know the number of hashes that were used.
there are other alternatives that add more complexity by using a Key Derivation Function and depending on that KDF it could simply take months to go through all the variations.

to OP: which brainwallet tool did you use to create this key? post the link to its code or website here.

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January 21, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
#12

On a brainwallet website.  Tried two different of them and they were both the same.  This was some time ago, so I don't have links to the sites.  A few will pop up if you check Google though.
First of all, you must have knowledge on what PERMUTATION is. You said you have 6 words. If you have used all these words, the possible count is 720. If you have no idea about bruteforce, still it's possible to get the possible phrase with manual try. You can create a spreadsheet and list all the possible count. But that's too much time consuming. A script can make it far easier.
On the other hand, if you have used 5 out of 6 words, you still require 720 tries.
If you have used 4 out of 6, you require 360 tries.

I guess you must have known the first word or second. In that case, a manual try is easier too.
But still, bruteforce can get you all these within couple of minutes.

Don't share your phrase words with anyone else.

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January 22, 2020, 08:02:31 AM
#13

On a brainwallet website.  Tried two different of them and they were both the same.  This was some time ago, so I don't have links to the sites.  A few will pop up if you check Google though.

try revisiting a couple of them and see which ones look more familiar, it should stand out. as i said without knowing which one you used it is not possible to begin brute forcing it there is just too many possibilities to check.

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