About Bestchange [again]

[johhnyUA]

Here is it - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219259.0 (screenshots in english is readable by anyone)

Edited: Here is english topic - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5219589.msg53667163#msg53667163

TS tried to exchange 21 010 USD on Monero at https://changehero.io/ (spoiler: this is scam shitty "exchange service" don't use it in any way) and was fooled. Exchanger told TS to make KYC procedure because sum was very big.

TS asked them to return money to his wallet while passing KYC (what was in their ToS) but they rejected to do that and also, they rewrited their ToS (lol). And in result they started to ignore him and deleted chat with support on their site (double lol)

But more interesting this part:

7) Ocтaвлял oтзыв нa bestchange.ru и trustpilot.com - нa oбoиx плoщaдкax oтзывы имeннo были yдaлeны, нe cкpыты. Bestchange.ru нeдeлю нaзaд зaпpocил oт мeня вcю инфopмaцию co cкpиншoтaми, дoкyмeнтaми пo пoвoдy oбмeнa, я вce выcлaл, нa 1-2 дня oбмeнникy пocтaвили cтaтyc "Heдocтyпeн" в дaнный мoмeнт y oбмeникa cтaтyc "Aктивeн" и мeня никтo нe oпoвeщaл пo кaкoй пpичинe eмy oбpaтнo вepнyли cтaтyc aктивнoгo oбмeнникa. A trustpilot.com вooбщe бecпoлeзный pecypc, 3 paзa ocтaвлял oтзыв тaм co вceми дaнными oбмeнa, пpocтo yдaляют и нa пoчтe cвoeгo caппopтa мoлчaт.

Bolded text translate:

I left feedbacks on bestchange.ru and trustpilot.com - on both my feedbacks were deleted, not hidden. Bestchange.ru asked me all information one week ago, with all screenshots, documents about my exchange. I have sent them everything. For 1-2 days exchanger (changehero means - translator) was set to "not available" but now it has status "Active" and noone told me reasons why it was happened

(tried my best to translate - translator)

You can check it by yourself - this shitty assholes (they calling themselves changehero) is still available on bestchange - https://www.bestchange.com/list.html but with Sergey feedback (https://www.bestchange.com/changehero-exchanger.html) for now (January 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM forum time)

Bestchange didn't delete them, they don't give a fuck (in fact).

I'm here not talking about specific scam but more about ethics of bestchange. This is not first their accusation like that. They are loving to add some shady shitty exchanges and don't love to remove them. In fact, they are acting like Uber or any shitty new trendy service-agregator. They don't bear any responsibility, they just intermediary between customer and merchant. Isn't this pitty?

While YOSHIE locked his topic, i created this one to discuss such situation.

The problem is that you can't blame Bestchange. You weren't scammed by them, you were scammed by exchanger which were provided by them. Bestchange in their opinion is clear. But is it trustworthy? I mean the same thing with Uber: if car driver will steal something from you, Uber will never compensate you anything by himself. He will tell you something like "Oh, here is it all needed information, now go and find your driver-thief, have a nice day!"
Company, like Microsoft, is responsible for their workers of services. Bestchange or Uber - is not.

P.S: yep, maybe someone will remember that i promoted Livecoin with opened scam accusation. I remember that too, but here is a little difference - my opinion was that Livecoin was blackmailed and i had told it publicly. So i put my "skin in the game". In simple words, I risked with my own reputation and I beared some risk. At the same time, Bestchange don't want to be responsible, but want to have profits. Like any another agregator-service

[1714227973]

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[1714227973]

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[1714227973]

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[yahoo62278]

Why would someone exchange 21k at once if there is questions about reputation? I personally have not looked into Bestchanges rep, but from the other thread users were saying there have been accusations against them. Another question, why not provide KYC for a large amount? I understand users would like to stay anonymous but if they wanted to avoid that, why not do a bunch of smaller transactions? Yea spend more on fees but maybe avoid the kyc process.

IMO since bestchange is offering the option, shouldn't they be held liable as much as the exchange fucking your buddy? They want to make the money then they should make sure the people they deal with are legit. They may well be also man, if your buddy went through with KYC would they pay?

[Steamtyme]

I'll start by saying I've never bothered to check them out up until this topic as it struck a chord. I've never looked at it and really have no interest in finding the best rate at any given moment, call me lazy. I'll just sell here and there as I see fit or find the time. I do remember however being new to the scene and finding tons of lists of provideres in the past and trying to use those lists to find reputable places to do business. Unfortunately a lot of people/businesses make great claims, and do little research or just provide that as lip service.

BestChange was created with security in mind, which means that we pay utmost attention to the reputation and reliability of e-currency exchangers that we work with. All of them have been thoroughly selected to offer the highest level of service and customer support, so dealing with them is 100% reliable and legal. For instance, services working with WebMoney must have a very high  to be included into our list of premium e-currency exchangers.

This here about sums up my issue with this "public service provider" as they put it. You can look into their terms of service and they quickly make you give up all and any rights to hold them accountable if something goes wrong in any sense. Why would you need to be fully indemnified from all liability if you make the claim all exchangers listed are 100% safe.
Sorry but I didn't go through all of the users thread about the scam in general or how he got there and what not but did they only arrive at that site because they were on Bestchange? If so that's enough for them to have a warning associated with them IMO. It's nothing legal and won't get your friends funds returned to them but people should be aware that they can drop the ball despite claims of 100% safety.
I must say it's very damning if they have removed legitimate feedback and allowed the exchanger to continue to do business despite being aware of how they have potentially scammed this user.
Now I have to ask how sure are you about the events and how they have transpired? Has the person received any further communication from Bestchange? I believe I read correctly that the guy is complying with KYC, is there any communication or movement on this?

[YOSHIE]

While YOSHIE locked his topic, i created this one to discuss such situation.

Yes, I locked the topic about the Bestchange site, temporarily for further fermentation of complaints of deceived members.

The evidence you provided is suspicion about the Bestchange site getting stronger in fraud.

I am currently investigating the direction of their game and gathering some more evidence to be presented, so people are really aware that exchanging on the Bestchange site is at very high risk of losing their money.

Now we are not talking about the pesky campaign, we are talking about sites with losses suffered by many people, damn.
Their turnover is now declining, people have started to realize which sites are honest and which sites are losing their money.
https://btcsniffer.com/index.php?address=1BestcHaNGExXQ5ZHoY1iTtNEoey8BF1kk&cb=2&latest

[johhnyUA]

Now I have to ask how sure are you about the events and how they have transpired? Has the person received any further communication from Bestchange? I believe I read correctly that the guy is complying with KYC, is there any communication or movement on this?

As you see, this scammy exchange (changehero) is still available on bestchange despite their PM to topic starter where they tells something like: "we do all nedeed actions to exclude exchange service ChangeHero from our listing"

UPD:
1)
Oт bestchange я пoлyчил пиcьмo, пocлe кoтopoгo нa вpeмя y oбмeнникa пoмeняли cтaтyc. Boт пиcьмo:
 "Дoбpый дeнь! C нaшeй cтopoны были пpиняты мepы пo вpeмeннoмy иcключeнию oбмeннoгo пyнктa ChangeHero из лиcтингa мoнитopингa.
Haдeeмcя, чтo этoт фaкт пoвлияeт нa cкopocть oбpaбoтки oбмeнникoм cитyaции пo Baшeй зaявкe.
Блaгoдapим зa oбpaщeниe, жeлaeм Baм нaдeжныx и выгoдныx oбмeнoв!
Best regards,
Alexa (BestChange)."

Isn't it enough shitty and untrustworthy? I mean as i said it before: the problem not in specific scammers, the problem they bestchange doesn't bear any responsibility so they will keep adding scammers. They're motivated to do that, because they will get money from scammers (i don't know for sure how bestchange get their money from listed services, in what way i mean) but if something will go wrong, they just delete this scammers from their list. I mean with such scheme they don't interest to do even the smallest check.

This is why this topic at "reputation" and not in "scam accusation". Here is what i mean:

IMO since bestchange is offering the option, shouldn't they be held liable as much as the exchange fucking your buddy? They want to make the money then they should make sure the people they deal with are legit.

[Steamtyme]

Now I have to ask how sure are you about the events and how they have transpired? Has the person received any further communication from Bestchange? I believe I read correctly that the guy is complying with KYC, is there any communication or movement on this?

As you see, this scammy exchange (changehero) is still available on bestchange despite their PM to topic starter where they tells something like: "we do all nedeed actions to exclude exchange service ChangeHero from our listing"
~snip~

Isn't it enough shitty and untrustworthy? I mean as i said it before: the problem not in specific scammers, the problem they bestchange doesn't bear any responsibility so they will keep adding scammers. They're motivated to do that, because they will get money from scammers (i don't know for sure how bestchange get their money from listed services, in what way i mean) but if something will go wrong, they just delete this scammers from their list. I mean with such scheme they don't interest to do even the smallest check.

This is why this topic at "reputation" and not in "scam accusation". Here is what i mean:

You are not wrong and my questions about the actual scam are valid for what actions I want to take. Sorry if something is getting lost in translation here, but I am currently considering my creating or supporting a newbie warning flag and at a minimum tagging the forum based account with a neutral if not negative. For the following reasons.

1) The claim that they have deleted valid feedback from their site about a potential scam.
2) Allowing the potential scam to continue to be promoted through their platform.

I'll be clear if it wasn't before I don't like them or they way they make promises, as reflected below.

BestChange was created with security in mind, which means that we pay utmost attention to the reputation and reliability of e-currency exchangers that we work with. All of them have been thoroughly selected to offer the highest level of service and customer support, so dealing with them is 100% reliable and legal. For instance, services working with WebMoney must have a very high  to be included into our list of premium e-currency exchangers.

This here about sums up my issue with this "public service provider" as they put it. You can look into their terms of service and they quickly make you give up all and any rights to hold them accountable if something goes wrong in any sense. Why would you need to be fully indemnified from all liability if you make the claim all exchangers listed are 100% safe.

I am condemning their claims as this was lifted from their landing page. It creates a false sense of security which is impossible for them to provide - nothing is 100%
When I discuss them indemnifying themselves I am referring to their TOS where they do just that regardless of fault of the user or the exchanger. This is BS, and makes the claim of 100% safe a lie if they have even one scammed user that they themselves do not make whole.

The reason I want to know about the actual scam accusation is important to me anyways. If it turns out there was no scam, and it just took longer than expected or they waited on the KYC to clear; whatever it happens. Then it makes sense that the exchanger is still listed. I still don't agree with the feedback having been deleted, that's a poor precedent. I am not trying to lump Bestchange in with that scam but it's outcome does have a varying degree of liability that Bestchange shares in; and should be reflected and dealt with in a measured manner. 

[Stanlo]

I think its a very bad idea to exchange 21k worth of coin on any exchange at once and most especially on low rated exchanges, would have been better if you do this on binance and there won't b anything to worry about, I get nervous exchanging coins worth 1k on any exchanges these days unless its top exchange, you've learned your lesson

[Balthazar]

"Exchanger" now made statements about some ongoing investigation. Meanwhile, all messages from scammed person are ignored.

What a nice way to perform investigation. Why bother asking or answering questions when you already have his 21k in your wallet.

P. S. I left a negative feedback to Best_Change user. He's definitely supporting this pseudo-exchanger and acting as its agent on this forum.

[johhnyUA]

P. S. I left a negative feedback to Best_Change user. He's definitely supporting this pseudo-exchanger and acting as its agent on this forum.

I've done the same thing. it's not normal to keep scammers on "active services" while they can scam someone other. With such cases, bestchange should freeze this exchanger and make them active again only after succesful (to both sides) solution.


Veleor created flag about this situation. Please support - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1265

пoэтoмy я coздaл флaг №1265 c ccылкoй нa тeмy oт johhnyUA в aнглийcкoм paздeлe. Пpи ycлoвии, чтo флaг пoддepжaт дocтaтoчнoe кoличecтвo пoльзoвaтeлeй, тoгдa вce тeмы oт aккayнтa Bestchange для нoвичкoв и гocтeй фopyмa бyдyт coпpoвoждaтьcя cпeциaльным пpeдyпpeждeниeм нa жёлтoм фoнe. Ecть шaнcы, чтo этo cyмeeт пoдcтeгнyть пpeдcтaвитeля Bestchange бoлee pacтopoпнo peшaть пpoблeмy тoпикcтapтepa.

[Balthazar]

Another question, why not provide KYC for a large amount?

User sent them requested papers and made a video call. That didn't help, they simply edited the ToS, then put him to ignore list everywhere and that's all.

[JollyGood]

Thank you YOSHIE for both the thread (which is currently locked) and also your work looking in to Bestchange.

I have a feeling very soon there might be a deluge of complaints from their campaign participants.

While YOSHIE locked his topic, i created this one to discuss such situation.

Yes, I locked the topic about the Bestchange site, temporarily for further fermentation of complaints of deceived members.

The evidence you provided is suspicion about the Bestchange site getting stronger in fraud.

I am currently investigating the direction of their game and gathering some more evidence to be presented, so people are really aware that exchanging on the Bestchange site is at very high risk of losing their money.

Now we are not talking about the pesky campaign, we are talking about sites with losses suffered by many people, damn.
Their turnover is now declining, people have started to realize which sites are honest and which sites are losing their money.
https://btcsniffer.com/index.php?address=1BestcHaNGExXQ5ZHoY1iTtNEoey8BF1kk&cb=2&latest

[YOSHIE]

I have a feeling very soon there might be a deluge of complaints from their campaign participants.

Even if that is true, I have warned members here about the Bestchange site being involved in fraud and stealing some of their clients' money.

Even worse, I do not imagine to promote a site that is involved in the theft of client money and is distributed to sig participants, and given to sig participants' wives and children to enjoy money.
People who are victims of fraud will certainly swear, this will be contagious effect for those who eat stolen money.

I have a hunch, they will pay participants in the first week, like I mentioned above, or vice versa as you said.

[YOSHIE]

I provide some more evidence about bestchange, committing fraud against his client.

You several companies listed on the bestchange exchange.
They are all accomplices of the bestchange company.

fraudulent exchange site.

[1]. exmo-exchanger.
[2]. changex-exchanger.
[3]. livecoin-exchanger.
[4]. yobit-exchanger
[5]. utbs-exchanger.
[6]. changehero-exchanger.
[7]. e-currencytrade-exchanger.
[8]. shapeshift-exchanger.
[9]. changer4u-exchanger.

Proof:

1. https://www.bestchange.ru/exmo-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/b1i41

2. https://www.bestchange.ru/changex-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/qsjX0

3. https://www.bestchange.ru/livecoin-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/8RyzQ

4. https://www.bestchange.ru/yobit-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/8QTfO

5. https://www.bestchange.ru/utbs-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/pwnhQ

6. https://www.bestchange.com/changehero-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/wLtqv

7. https://www.bestchange.com/e-currencytrade-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/tkLj4

8. https://www.bestchange.com/shapeshift-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/GTms5

9. https://www.bestchange.com/changer4u-exchanger.html
http://archive.is/wip/QpNmX

[Best_Change]

Unfortunately, it’s also possible to understand the exchanger, because if the funds were indeed obtained illegitimately, they will be held responsible for helping fraudsters/drug dealers or the like.

On the other hand, the exchanger has not yet provided any serious evidence for their suspicions, just their subjective opinion.

Our moderator temporarily switched off the exchanger after they stopped responding to his requests, and not because of the current situation. The way the monitor works, after the punishment term expires, the exchanger gets automatically switched on. The theories about kickbacks shared in the original topic are very interesting and under other circumstances we would even discus them, but unfortunately these guesses have nothing to do with reality and only distract attention from this current situation.

We do not have the habit (neither the authority) to hastily call others scams or fraudsters, but try to get to the bottom of the situation, listen to different viewpoints and gather facts. We believe that this approach is more competent, although many users would prefer to point a finger and put the blame on somebody (including us), judging solely on their speculations.

That’s a logical conflict, don’t you think?
It turns out that you are spreading subjective speculations about us being a fraud, based only on a fact that administration of the exchanger listed also subjectively thinks that the user is a fraud.

We would like to empathize that the users participating in our advertising campaign and being paid for it, have nothing to do with this incident.

In any case, given that there is no request from the law-enforcing authorities or real proof from the exchanger, we continue to insist they return the full amount to the user. Today we have switched the exchanger off until this situation is solved, their investigation is dragging on and they do not provide any new facts.

[figmentofmyass]

In any case, given that there is no request from the law-enforcing authorities or real proof from the exchanger, we continue to insist they return the full amount to the user. Today we have switched the exchanger off until this situation is solved, their investigation is dragging on and they do not provide and new facts.

good to hear. that will hopefully force the exchanger to act swiftly. i hope you continue to advocate on behalf of this customer---they are owed a lot of money.

obviously, your customers count on you to sanction and/or remove fraudulent exchangers. i was concerned upon hearing that bestchange deactivated/reactivated the exchanger in question despite the fact that the case was still unresolved. i'm glad there's a reasonable explanation for why that happened.

[Steamtyme]

We would like to empathize that the users participating in our advertising campaign and being paid for it, have nothing to do with this incident.

In any case, given that there is no request from the law-enforcing authorities or real proof from the exchanger, we continue to insist they return the full amount to the user. Today we have switched the exchanger off until this situation is solved, their investigation is dragging on and they do not provide and new facts.

Glad to hear your response on this matter. Personally I think this situation should be an eye opener and would like to see the 100% safe claim from your landing page removed. I'm going to revise my feedback, but still feel that's an unreasonable goalpost to have and is unattainable.

For me the campaign participants weren't wrapped up in this at the moment, as the potential scam is off your platform you were just the gateway and they make up a small percentage of where you direct people.

[cryptoaddictchie]

It's good to hear that @Best_Change paid the participants on the signature campaign. Ive just read on your bounty thread. I think some will remove their negative trust on you such as TMAN as he mentioned on his tagged if you used escrow or at least paid the first week.


I'm just not sure with other negative tagged as the issue is on your exchange directly. But this will somehow lighten the issue for a bit I guess proving that Best Change exchange is legit and paying.

[cabalism13]

It's good to hear that @Best_Change paid the participants on the signature campaign. Ive just read on your bounty thread. I think some will remove their negative trust on you such as TMAN as he mentioned on his tagged if you used escrow or at least paid the first week.


I'm just not sure with other negative tagged as the issue is on your exchange directly. But this will somehow lighten the issue for a bit I guess proving that Best Change exchange is legit and paying.

Knowing TMAN, it might be removed but it will be replaced again for another reason until the accusations are cleared. So, as of the meantime, to save him a hassle of typing another feedback he should just leave it be until BestChange clear their name. (Am not speakin' for him, just stating what he might do)
We might also not know that they just intended to pay the first week just because of the feedback left on the account,... JMO...

[Lauda]

I have removed their previous negative while I look into the current state of events (which are unrelated to why the negative was given). Do note that I was being threatened with a flag[1] unless I comply, not that this was the reason for complying.

The participants of the advertising campaign received their payouts, buy you haven’t removed your red flag and are spoiling our reputation on the forum for no good reason. And you ignore the fact that we do pay the participants. We think this is wrong. Unfortunately, if you do not remove your flag, we will have to use the trust system to announce your unethical behavior.

Kind regards,
Best_Change

If you're threatening me into taking quick action, or "else consequences", then you may forget about correcting your reputation. I will publicize these PMs. The only thing that I can tell you at this time: I'll look into the case when I have time, there are more urgent matters on this forum.

This is not a threat but informing you in advance. We have a right to give a flag to users spreading misinformation about us despite provided proof of no wrongdoing, but as a gesture of good will we decided to inform you in advance. We do not mind if you wish to publicize these PMs – we would have done it ourselves, but the topic where this situation was discusses is unfortunately locked.

We would really appreciate the speedy resolution of the issue.

Cheers,
Best_Change

[1] I don't see how someone has a "right to give a flag" if I don't comply with a rating review in time.
Publicized PM because cases are on-going and I don't want to keep this in my box.

[YOSHIE]

I also experienced the same PM, "Oh, I'm so scared" Lol.

The participants of the advertising campaign received their payouts, buy you haven’t removed your red flag and are spoiling our reputation on the forum for no good reason. And you ignore the fact that we do pay the participants. We think this is wrong. Unfortunately, if you do not remove your flag, we will have to use the trust system to announce your unethical behavior.

Kind regards,
Best_Change

What i did, i could be shot dead later...🗡️
Commander, give me a bullet proof shirt, to catch big-time fraudsters.


Link: http://archive.is/wip/aFH9e

Currently there is an ongoing investigation between the exchanger and Binance in the attempt to return the user his funds. But in any case, our service bears no legal of financial responsibility as stated in our ToS.