Suggestion to make rank-up more difficult

[bitmover]

Now let's take another example: did you take a look at nullius? He is the best example. Not to mention anymore that he also had a topic on a similar matter - Suggestion: Raise merit requirements at the lower and highest ranks (@theymos). Let's remember some of his words from that time:

Starting with 17 merits awarded to some of my old Jr. Member posts by people who remember them, I reached the Hero threshold of 500 merits within 27 days, 8 hours, 16 minutes, 22 seconds of active posting.  All in all, from the moment that theymos announced the merit system, it took me 32 days, 9 hours, 14 minutes, 51 seconds to go from zero to Hero

Meanwhile, nullius has 1517 merits and 1260 posts. Posts, not activity! His activity is 280.

Nullius deserves a rank by his name.

He writes very well. He put so much effort in his posts. It is a privilege to have a member such as him in this forum. He has knowledge, will to share, time, patience... He can't be an example for anything.

Not including theymos and satoshi, there are only 83 members who have earned 1000 merit ever, in the >2 years since merit was introduced. That's not even 1 new legendary a week. I don't think that's an unreasonable position. Increasing the limit to 3,000 would give a grand total of 5 legendary members on the entire forum (again, not including theymos). I don't see the benefit of doing that. The merit system was supposed to prevent spammers from ranking up, not create a new rank which is only obtainable by <0.001% of the forum.

I agree with this.
You can create a new rank for those 3000k merited members, or members who are here for a long time (i.e, very high activity).

But to become a legendary you need 1000 merits, which was done only by 83 members in this forum is already very unobtainable.

Maybe there should a badge or something for each 1000 earned merits.

[Mpamaegbu]

this I will loosely translate here - A man with a healthy penis doesn't know the travails of one with the elephantiasis of the scrotum.

True,  I can not image wheeling my testicles in a wheel barrel.  I can only say it must be terrible.

Lol... You can only imagine that scenario. Glad it cracked you up to the point of you shilling it some merits. I appreciate.

[nakamura12]

In my opinion, making the rank up more difficult is necessary. It is true that some of your merits are from joining bitcointalk art competition which is far for faster than earning merit without ths competition. Also, this is not a forum where people visit this site just to rank up. Remember, this forum is for discussions not ranking up accounts.

[tranthidung]

@OP,

Based on this data provided the other day  by DdmrDdmr, i don't think that ranking up should be more difficult.

Snapshot as of 24/01/2020 (data as of 17/01/2020 *):

From DdmrDdmr data (on the day your snapshotted the photo), there are 15665 ranked up users.

From my latest update in my thread - At-least-1 sent & earned merits users , excludes autobanned/ nuked. Stats!, we have something to think of, I only quote main parts:

• Number of users who only earned at least 1 merit: 18971
• Number of users who only sent at least 1 merit: 7366
• Number of users who earned AND sent at least 1 merit: 14547

For legit users only:

• Total legit users: 12040

You see it. There are 18971 users who earned at least 1 merit till the last Friday's merit data dump. After took into consideration only users who earned AND sent at least 1 merits we have 14547 users. Next, after excluding users who have been banned or nuked, we have only 12040 legit users left.
Let's make a very raw calculation to have percent of legit users on total users on the forum:

• Total users: 2775211
• Total legit users (from my definition): 12040
• Percent of legit users: 12040/2775211*100 ~ 0.43%

In addition, from my observations on weekly new legit users, the number increases very slowly weekly. Details.

I don't support the idea to make ranking up more difficult. 

[Chlotide]

...

But being serious any changes would affect every single user, not just some "merit receiving sources" that manage to earn truck loads of merit (for their well thought out posts, don't get me wrong).
It's like tomorrow they changed the period for masters degrees. Not 1.5-2 years anymore. Now it's 7 !
Want to be called a "master"... well you better earn it ! )

Not really as simple as you describe it dude !

[Snappycoco]

How could you say it is easy to become a legendary? I can't imagine how could you become a legendary in 2 years time even if you post a low quality one. High quality posts are needed to become one and that's what we are lacking as Jr. Members. We still need to learn more I guess.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Oh well, after more investigations through the history, I just found two more threads sharing the same idea (and, of course, even more members who posted in those threads supporting this idea).

The threads are the following: Coin-1's [Proposal] Enhance the requirements for ranking up to Member position and r1s2g3's Merit requirement should be proportional to activity.

[bakasabo]

Why not add new index to get a Legendary rank ? As it seems activity and merit is no longer enough?

Or to emphasize the person really is a Legendary on the forum, make legendary rank obtainable only through voting and trust system?
How forum decides who is DT1 and DT2, same system will decide who is ready to be legendary and who doesn't deserve that (or be an anti-legendary ).

But as theymos said he wont make new rank, that is greater than legendary, I doubt that he will make changes in ranking system.

[Apocollapse]

First, you should beat most meriters user in this forum (@theymos) it's will make your suggestion have strongest proof. Even theymos have 7713 merit now, he doesn't create a thread about that's suggestion.
I you beat him, you can came back and suggest to make rank-up/ get merit more difficult.

Or maybe @theymos should make a new system only for you to rank-up more difficult.

[Rizzrack]

How forum decides who is DT1 and DT2, same system will decide who is ready to be legendary and who doesn't deserve that (or be an anti-legendary ).

Currently it's a lottery for DT. Theymos picks the names out of a hat (not exactly, but you get the gist of it).
And what will happen to current legendary rank members ? They keep their current rank ? Would it be weird to see some legendary with 1000 merit/1000 posts and others Hero member with 1200 merit/ 2000 posts ? Are they demoted ? Is that fair ?

Seems to me that whenever we don't have any problems we start making some ) but hey... live and let live !

[Bossian]

I would agree, however, with increasing the threshold from Junior member from 1 merit to 10 merit. It is still too easy for spammers and account farmers to beg, buy, trade, use alts, or plagiarize their way to single merit and then start signature spamming for some meaningless altcoin. I'd also agree with removing airdropped merit for the same reason.

Now we're getting somewhere About removing the airdropped merits I'm with you, if you want to start a riot.

Of course, if we take Bossian's exploits of the merit system as being granted, even these 10 merits seem too few. But it could me a start.

For the lulz, let's remember how Bossian "hacked" the system:

Merits are extremely overrated and useless (my opinion) but since I see quite many folks here begging for merits, today I will give you the best advice ever. Finally you will get your 10 merits within a week (guaranteed)!!

Pretty simple.

Visit this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.510540

This thread is very active and many drunk people post daily. Many of them have unlimited smerits to give to others.

1/ write ONLY optimistic predictions (the crazier the better). For example: if you think BTC price will be 15k next month, write 75k instead.
2/ posts do not need to be constructive or smart, keep it very simple but extremely BULLISH (key word here) so you can have more success.
3/ ost GIF or a meme, some funny stuff, or again some very bullish stuff. A meme or GIF #TOTHEMOON can be very effective.
4/ the easier to understand, the better. And the shorter the better. Remember this is 2019: short attention span era.
5/ post more during drinking time (typically Friday and Saturday night, but I guess Thursday also works). Many people tend to be more generous when drinking.

And in the end, a very precious information:

if you are smart enough you will do good (maybe smart is not the appropriate word but you get the point).

 
I really don't see what would this forum gain from increasing merit and activity requirement 2x.

Maybe avoid such situations as thoroughly explained by Bossian? But of course, not 2x.

  good memories this thread. Forgot about it.

I didn't "hack" the system though, just observed the forum and aside my personal case I saw many other users getting merits for a post that, in a perfect world, should never get a merit. The ones to blame are clearly the merit sources though. The thread I pinpointed above ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.510540 ) is a big joke.

[Railai]

Currently it is hard enough. The difference between member and full member is already too much. As a new member you are definetly going to receive 1 merit maybe each 10 posts. Does that sounds right? For a full member, 1000 posts sounds like too much.

It should be also a system where the merit can be airdroped to users that are constantly active and they posts have nothing to do with plagyarism. Simply reward content creators that are on topic.

I would add as rule minimum characters in order to get merit, let's say 40/50. I saw so many one liners where people get rewarded.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It should be also a system where the merit can be airdroped to users that are constantly active and they posts have nothing to do with plagyarism. Simply reward content creators that are on topic.

I would add as rule minimum characters in order to get merit, let's say 40/50. I saw so many one liners where people get rewarded.

Absolutely not. Merit was specifically designed to be given to posts which are high quality, and not just any old trash that happens to be "on topic". See the quote from theymos when he launched the merit system at the bottom of this post. Meriting people simply for being active defeats the entire point of the merit system in the first place. Its reason for existing is to stop people from ranking up just for being active, and force people to actually contribute constructively to conversations and discussions. Airdropping merit to active users makes it no different from activity.

Furthermore, a post of less than 40 characters could easily be merit worthy, if it directly and succinctly answers a question. I'm thinking about posts in the technical section where users have asked for a specific command or piece of code to perform a task.

Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
...
While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

[Chrystora123]

the challenge is the rank up to Sr. Member, hero and legendary, however you won't feel it's hard if you are enjoying your life in the forum, instead, once you are ranked up, you might miss yourself when you are still in low rank.

whether our personal main achievement in this forum is "Legendary Rank"??  A high rank does not promise that you are knowledgeable and a low rank does not prove that you are a beginner. on average, many starter topics that get many Merit that I see are members who are good at reading opportunities (even though their topics are not educational).. don't force yourself, because a low rank isn't too bad  

It should be also a system where the merit can be airdroped to users that are constantly active and they posts have nothing to do with plagyarism. Simply reward content creators that are on topic.

Merit rotation is spread everywhere *I hope you understand what I mean  

[bakasabo]

Currently it is hard enough. The difference between member and full member is already too much. As a new member you are definetly going to receive 1 merit maybe each 10 posts. Does that sounds right? For a full member, 1000 posts sounds like too much.

There is no use doing such merit to post counting as there are numerous forum members who have merits more than posts.

Anyway GazetaBitcoin, why would you want to slow down ranking-up? Take a look on ranking from different angle - it is easy to rank-up because forum and members are evolving rapidly. Same as the whole world. Previously users need to study something, search and share for something new for weeks. Now people do it in days days a get appropriate reward (merit, reputation). Same as I had to learn how to do this and that on PC, while kids now in the age of 6-8 can google how to set up windows from usb and do that while their parents are at work

[skarais]

whether our personal main achievement in this forum is "Legendary Rank"??

I dont think that Legendary ranking is the main goal or achievement of every forum user. But it is a right for every user who has a contribution and quality in the forum. When the merit system is implemented, Legendary ranking can only be achieved with positive contributions to the forum and also to most users. And I must say that they are the most entitled to get merit on most posts made consistently.

A high rank does not promise that you are knowledgeable and a low rank does not prove that you are a beginner.

The number of merit a user receives is clear evidence that the user is a quality poster, the more merit a user receives indicates that the user is a quality poster or user who is contributing.

I do not agree if you say that Legendary members achieved after the merit system is implemented cant guarantee that it is not a user who has good quality posts and also does not prove that the user does not have extensive knowledge. If you think so, then I will never agree with you.

If you can understand what theymos say, then I am sure you will change your current perception. From this quote we can interpret that only the shit posters has never reached a higher rank even if only one merit.

Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.

[GazetaBitcoin]

First, you should beat most meriters user in this forum (@theymos) it's will make your suggestion have strongest proof. Even theymos have 7713 merit now, he doesn't create a thread about that's suggestion.
I you beat him, you can came back and suggest to make rank-up/ get merit more difficult.

Or maybe @theymos should make a new system only for you to rank-up more difficult.

Today, while I writing in a topic, I accidentally remembered this one. And also accidentally I realized I never replied you lol.

Oh well, while beating theymos is something I'll never achieve (and, most likely, nobody else will achieve ), regarding your second statement I have to tell you that actually I did it

If you really think that ranking system is very easy to attain. Why not you request to theymos to X2 your required merit to rank up so that you will find it more challenging.

To be honest, I would. But I'm sure he won't accept as he doesn't want any discrepancies inside the forum. Another reason for which I would accept is because I don't care that much about the rank. I am just a normal user and a honorable person. I behave here pure normally. I express opinions and sometimes they are good, sometimes they are not good. I don't cheat the system, I don't scam, I don't spam. And I promote crypto-anarchism, the cypherpunks, free speech and liberty for people.

However, if theymos reads this, he can double my barriers in ranking up. I accept this challenge Honesty and being a honorable person helps everyone in the society and also inside this forum. If you are not focused on merits and ranking up, if you are focused just on expressing constructive ideas, on helping others and on bringing a plus (generally speaking), on the long term, all these will help you way more than if you are oriented on fast rank-ups, on greed, on earning more and more money. Although you could disagree, life makes a difference between those with good intentions and those with bad intentions. Maybe not fast, but in time the difference is made.

[SUMBI99]

I think there is no need for that the difficult establish before is fair to all members, although some still find it more difficult to get merits as I do but still it's Fair enough to make forum members productive. And people should not be selfish as they in a certain high rank so they Don't Need others to reach that level.
I tried to understand the psychology of the writer then I find out he/she find out to move from that rank she/he is, is more difficult so he/she find a way to give people attention on adding more difficulties so other will not reach Him/her which is not fair.                                                                             
People should be given merits due to the efforts of their contributions to the forum. 

[Yourhomeboy]

We are building this forum together and you are making a suggestion that will weaken people that have done a great job in this forum without being recognized. I must say we are all friends and why would a friend suggest for a difficult ranking system because you are almost a High ranked member. They is a saying that the higher a monkey climbs a tree the more he expose his anus You don't care anymore for others that are finding it difficult while it's easy for to rank.

[GazetaBitcoin]

After replying to your topic from Beginners & Help section, I just realized I somehow forgot to reply to you here as well.

We are building this forum together and you are making a suggestion that will weaken people that have done a great job in this forum without being recognized.

Please show me a few members which did a great job inside the forum and which are not recognized. Can you name some? And, of course their unrecognized posts.

I must say we are all friends and why would a friend suggest for a difficult ranking system because you are almost a High ranked member.

This would be nice, but, unfortunately, we are not all friends. Some have acquintances here...some have friends...some have enemies / ignored users and so on. Regarding the part "because you are almost a High ranked member" - I started also from 0, from nothing and all I did was to bring good contributions to the forum. I started my activity here 1.5 years after the implementation of the merit system with 0 merits at the respective time. For more information, please read my previous posts in this topic. What I'm trying to say is that I didn't write this topic when I had 600 merits and when I was already a Sr. Member, but when I had "only" 201 merits, being a Full Member who earned those 201 merits in only 3 months at that time.

They is a saying that the higher a monkey climbs a tree the more he expose his anus You don't care anymore for others that are finding it difficult while it's easy for to rank.

Actually I do care for others, this is why I also started a merit giveaway topic in the Romanian board, this being also the first merit giveaway from this section of the forum. Regarding the easiness to rank: ranking up is as easy as you make it. If you contribute a lot, your efforts will be appreciated. If you think your efforts are not appreciated, you can also try LoyceV's topic Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. If even this try won't bring you recognition, it means that your post is actually of no use.

Finally, regarding your saying - insulting will certainly not bring you recognition lol. Actually, as far as I know, nullius is the only one here who managed ever to receive merits after insulting someone, this being also a 50-merits bomb from the insulted person But I doubt you would achieve something similar with insults.