On most altcoins disappearing

[Artemis3]

As this topic is essentially about Bitcoin, not altcoins (as the tittle wily but deceivingly suggests), I think it is a correct board to start it in

Many of us are wondering what would happen if crypto vanished altogether (and probably having jitters at such a thought). Well, I'm not that cruel, and only propose to discuss the less evil problem, if a problem at all. That is, will Bitcoin as well as a few selected altcoins (say, a couple or so) benefit from the complete disappearance of the total majority of altcoins from the cryptocurrency arena?

As I'm inclined to think, a few remaining coins would benefit dramatically. My train of thought is as follows. We can  plausibly claim that Bitcoin would be far better off now if not for the huge pile of shitcoins that turned out outright scams at the end of the day. People wouldn't have lost their money in these schemes, and they wouldn't lose it if they invested it in Bitcoin instead. Simple and straightforward logic, right?

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

I don't think so, no. Bitcoin wouldn't change much with or without the altcoins. The people who currently own altcoins wouldn't necessarily have that in Bitcoin regardless, they could go stocks or whatever. Less altcoins benefiting altcoins? Maybe, but not by much.

In any case its a moot point. Its like those that would want to see a single Linux distribution, or a single desktop environment, or a single web browser: Its never happening. The nature of Free and Open Source software promotes diversity by its very nature, altcoins will continue to exist even if they never achieve success and most will die anyway because there is simply too many of them and many have changed things for the worst (centralization, etc).

Scammers existed before Bitcoin, with bitcoin and with altcoins. Some people lost money in altcoins while not being a scam at all, they simply trusted something that the market deemed worthless.

Bitcoin would not be far better off without the altcoins, it would be, about the same. If there were no altcoins it means it wasn't free and open source and that would lead to a far much worse situation, that thankfully never happened. Closed proprietary software, or security by obscurity is absolute garbage (cryptographers had known that for decades).

Altcoins might wish there were less of them, but that isn't happening either. Nothing stops you from making your own coin, even if its literally just Bitcoin with another name (your own blockchain). That's the beauty of it. Now convincing the market that yours is worth anything, that's a whole other matter... It is like, trying to sell a product in a place with overabundance of said product.

[enhu]

As this topic is essentially about Bitcoin, not altcoins (as the tittle wily but deceivingly suggests), I think it is a correct board to start it in

Many of us are wondering what would happen if crypto vanished altogether (and probably having jitters at such a thought). Well, I'm not that cruel, and only propose to discuss the less evil problem, if a problem at all. That is, will Bitcoin as well as a few selected altcoins (say, a couple or so) benefit from the complete disappearance of the total majority of altcoins from the cryptocurrency arena?

As I'm inclined to think, a few remaining coins would benefit dramatically. My train of thought is as follows. We can  plausibly claim that Bitcoin would be far better off now if not for the huge pile of shitcoins that turned out outright scams at the end of the day. People wouldn't have lost their money in these schemes, and they wouldn't lose it if they invested it in Bitcoin instead. Simple and straightforward logic, right?

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

I don't think so, no. Bitcoin wouldn't change much with or without the altcoins. The people who currently own altcoins wouldn't necessarily have that in Bitcoin regardless, they could go stocks or whatever. Less altcoins benefiting altcoins? Maybe, but not by much.

In any case its a moot point. Its like those that would want to see a single Linux distribution, or a single desktop environment, or a single web browser: Its never happening. The nature of Free and Open Source software promotes diversity by its very nature, altcoins will continue to exist even if they never achieve success and most will die anyway because there is simply too many of them and many have changed things for the worst (centralization, etc).

Scammers existed before Bitcoin, with bitcoin and with altcoins. Some people lost money in altcoins while not being a scam at all, they simply trusted something that the market deemed worthless.

Bitcoin would not be far better off without the altcoins, it would be, about the same. If there were no altcoins it means it wasn't free and open source and that would lead to a far much worse situation, that thankfully never happened. Closed proprietary software, or security by obscurity is absolute garbage (cryptographers had known that for decades).

Altcoins might wish there were less of them, but that isn't happening either. Nothing stops you from making your own coin, even if its literally just Bitcoin with another name (your own blockchain). That's the beauty of it. Now convincing the market that yours is worth anything, that's a whole other matter... It is like, trying to sell a product in a place with overabundance of said product.

Considering that most altcoins are turning into scam after years of milking the unsuspecting investors, it will be difficult for new teams to get listed in exchanges while new investors today are already warned about new altcoins. The old ones are going to be in the market if they continue to keep developing.

Less altcoins that will successfully listed in exchanges due to them asking more money will discourage new scam teams and ultimately BTC will be the most bought coins making its price surge. Its not just going to be good for BTC for for all the remaining altcoins.

[wozzek23]

If altcoins should start disappearing, that would make a lot of people to quickly start losing interest in altcoins and that would strengthen the fact that Bitcoin is the more secured cryptocurrency there is. A lot of people would leave altcoins and rush back into Bitcoin. So yes, Bitcoin is really going to benefit from it and a lot of altcoins will lose, just like you have said. The only altcoins that will survive it will be those at the top that have gained trust already like Ethereum, Ripple, and few top altcoins.

yes it would do good to BTC. though the price is dictated by the market.

Yep, that’s true. It will even be good because a lot of people would realize that Bitcoin is the true cryptocurrency and it will help the Bitcoin market to grow heavily and it will maybe reach a stage where it will become quite stable and won’t be easily manipulated or something like that.

[hv_]

As this topic is essentially about Bitcoin, not altcoins (as the tittle wily but deceivingly suggests), I think it is a correct board to start it in

Many of us are wondering what would happen if crypto vanished altogether (and probably having jitters at such a thought). Well, I'm not that cruel, and only propose to discuss the less evil problem, if a problem at all. That is, will Bitcoin as well as a few selected altcoins (say, a couple or so) benefit from the complete disappearance of the total majority of altcoins from the cryptocurrency arena?

As I'm inclined to think, a few remaining coins would benefit dramatically. My train of thought is as follows. We can  plausibly claim that Bitcoin would be far better off now if not for the huge pile of shitcoins that turned out outright scams at the end of the day. People wouldn't have lost their money in these schemes, and they wouldn't lose it if they invested it in Bitcoin instead. Simple and straightforward logic, right?

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

First of all: Define what Bitcoin is for you - just a ticker ? A special protocol impl or the bigger idea (that started 2008 - without any tickers) ?

[FanatMonet]

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

At the moment, the market has already been formed, there is a flagship represented by bitcoin, there are several altcoins that are more or less close to it, there are altcoins occupy any of niches, and there are a huge number of different coins that are abandoned and do not affect development industry.

[royalfestus]

More investors came into the space because of altcoins, It was a FOMO to new investor, with the idea 'if they missed the bitcoin at less than 1 dollar they have other opportunities'. Most of them started well with a good pump in price against bitcoin, it was quite easy with richer investors when bitcoin was less than $1000. Invariably most of the trade were paired with bitcoin,and bitcoin to fiat was more dominant at those period. So it was easy for bitcoin to achieve the high volume trade and absorb most of the money in the space from altcoin. I believe bitcoin would have enjoy a good price ride but never this high.

[pikkie]

More investors came into the space because of altcoins, It was a FOMO to new investor, with the idea 'if they missed the bitcoin at less than 1 dollar they have other opportunities'. Most of them started well with a good pump in price against bitcoin, it was quite easy with richer investors when bitcoin was less than $1000. Invariably most of the trade were paired with bitcoin,and bitcoin to fiat was more dominant at those period. So it was easy for bitcoin to achieve the high volume trade and absorb most of the money in the space from altcoin. I believe bitcoin would have enjoy a good price ride but never this high.

currently there are no projects that can be the right place for investment. Better investment is only in bitcoin, although the benefits are very long, but this is the safest because if investing in an ICO or IEO project, there will be many scams and will make the assets of the investors. the investor is gone and makes the name cryptocurrency worse.

[deisik]

Basically, you are claiming that many people who lost their money in scams (first in shitcoins, then in ICO's) somehow helped Bitcoin rise, right? To me, that looks like a very flimsy argument. Honestly, I'd rather say that it only hurt Bitcoin image as well as its price tag. You see, it is not enough to disagree with someone's opinion. You should actually bring some facts to the table in order to support your point of view

This is only based on my observation, there's a lot of ICO in 2017 and that was the time bitcoin reached its new ATH, so that growth could be associated to altcoins whether people are scam or not, and I also believe that those who got scam will not gonna leave the market right away, they will learn and find bitcoin as a safe investment

It seems you are confusing correlation for causality

In other words, you implicitly assume that Bitcoin reached an ATH due to altcoins emerging en masse, right? Or, put differently, if it weren't for altcoins, Bitcoin wouldn't reach so high a price in 2017? If anything, I think it is quite the other way around. For example, if there hadn't been a split which led to the creation of Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin would have reached even a higher price by the end of 2017 (and probably wouldn't have fallen so much in 2018)

The market is big, people are looking to diversify their investment and I don't see any reason why altcoins should be eliminated when they offer great idea and they are building it for us to use in the future

To tell the truth, I don't see that as a diversification as it looks and feels more like stealing people's money

Don't generalize the altcoins, true that majority of them are scams but as the market is maturing, people will realize and like I said will learn from their mistakes. We can look at the market (https://coinmarketcap.com/) once again and we will see there are altcoins that are producing results and one of my favorite is the BNB, but at the same time I am also a believer of ETH

I hope you aren't closing your mind on altcoins because you are hating them. I'm just stating the facts based on my opinion

This is just another example showing that people don't pay particular attention to detail as I was not generalizing all altcoins (I said "Bitcoin as well as a few selected altcoins")

[erikalui]

Buying altcoins is not diversification. When bitcoin goes up, altcoins go up. When bitcoin goes down, altcoins go down much more. You are not negating risk at all by buying altcoins, which is the whole point of diversification. If you get really lucky and catch some random pump and dump you might make a little profit, but the vast majority of people who hold altcoins lose money. Just ask anyone who bought pretty much any altcoin during the bullrun at the end of 2017. 99% losses from their ATH is commonplace.

If you want to diversify your investments, look at vehicles outside of crypto altogether.

I know that all altcoins depend on bitcoin prices but it requires just a little jump in the price to see altcoins as profitable while those investing in bitcoins need to have a good investment of 1000+ USD to get a good profit which is not in the case of altcoins where you can invest as little as $100 and see yourself earning a good profit. Not to mention the amount you pay as fee in bitcoin transactions and confirmation time.

There are many other investments one can make but here I have found altcoins more profitable than bitcoins as these altcoins start from a price of $0.01 or less where bitcoin was in the start.

If a project has stopped being developed or worked on because the price has fallen, that's a pretty sure-fire guarantee that it's a trash project and the creators/developers are only in it for the money.

That's true but since the market is now almost dead, can't say the project was trash or not as some projects were really doing great when they were launched.

[suvo05]

I know that all altcoins depend on bitcoin prices but it requires just a little jump in the price to see altcoins as profitable while those investing in bitcoins need to have a good investment of 1000+ USD to get a good profit which is not in the case of altcoins where you can invest as little as $100 and see yourself earning a good profit. Not to mention the amount you pay as fee in bitcoin transactions and confirmation time.

There are many other investments one can make but here I have found altcoins more profitable than bitcoins as these altcoins start from a price of $0.01 or less where bitcoin was in the start.

The altcoins have spaces to grow, but according to the latest situation it is very hard to choose the right one for the investment, whereas bitcoin seems promising any any other coins. Yes you can find altcoins start from a price of $0.01 for the last two years we hardly seen iny positive movement in there.

[deisik]

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

First of all: Define what Bitcoin is for you - just a ticker ? A special protocol impl or the bigger idea (that started 2008 - without any tickers)?

It is definitely a bigger idea

I'm paid with bitcoins for doing online jobs (like translations or whatever), and without Bitcoin this wouldn't be possible. It is not only that of course as there are other applications beyond being "just a ticker" (by which you seem to refer to speculation, I guess), but that's what instantly comes to mind when asked such a question. So I looks like I defined what Bitcoin is for me (it is not just a ticker), and what comes next?

[crossabdd]

Well, we assume to step down in 2014-2015-2016. which is still very little altcoin. and Bitcoin is very good with its pattern. altcoin remains a favorite for investors and crypto traders. Big and chaotic changes exist after 2017. which all shitcoins enter and take part to damage. I totally agree if the majority of altcoin is eliminated. only the best altcoin you have. so crypto returns to good.

[Yatsan]

Well, we assume to step down in 2014-2015-2016. which is still very little altcoin. and Bitcoin is very good with its pattern.

Probably, the reason why there are still a small number of altcoin is because of the platform not readily available to the market. Yes, we all know that Ethereum and EOS make it possible for the market to open up opportunities for business to use crypto, though, it is not the most effective way to positively impact the market.

altcoin remains a favorite for investors and crypto traders. Big and chaotic changes exist after 2017. which all shitcoins enter and take part to damage. I totally agree if the majority of altcoin is eliminated. only the best altcoin you have. so crypto returns to good.

This is the continuation of the creation of tons of altcoins which probably for the sake of having their so called "Own Cryptocurrency/Altcoin", the race to enter the smart contract spreads this toxic mindset that result to what we have right now, which is allot of altcoins not worthy, and without value.

[deisik]

This is the continuation of the creation of tons of altcoins which probably for the sake of having their so called "Own Cryptocurrency/Altcoin", the race to enter the smart contract spreads this toxic mindset that result to what we have right now, which is allot of altcoins not worthy, and without value

Actually, they have value

And this value is strictly negative (which is essentially what this topic as about). People invest their hard-earned money in these shitcoins, eventually lose their investments, and this invariably affects the whole market in a prohibitively negative way (i.e. their money is gone for good). As you can see, having a negative value is a little bit different than having no value at all (not the same as being neutral)

[maxreish]

That's the bad side actually. Bitcoin were still highlighted not just because of those shitcoins that are popping around the market but because they can't really beat Bitcoin. Some investors claimed that their own altcoins will save them, let's face the reality.
"Altcoins weren't as the same as 2017".
They are starting to disappear now but Bitcoin remains the first spot. If not for the scammers, altcoins are still flying until now.

[Finestream]

In other words, you implicitly assume that Bitcoin reached an ATH due to altcoins emerging en masse, right? Or, put differently, if it weren't for altcoins, Bitcoin wouldn't reach so high a price in 2017?

You are right, I was thinking of that and I believe it was Altcoins which makes bitcoin reach its ATH.
The thing is, when that time there's a lot of running ICO, they invested on it as ICO that time are so profitable, but then its just normal for risk management purpose that the team who own a project in ICO would raise BTC and ETH as these two coins are more stable compared to the others and even some have converted their ETH for bitcoin, so btc's demand increases.

If anything, I think it is quite the other way around. For example, if there hadn't been a split which led to the creation of Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin would have reached even a higher price by the end of 2017

Not sure I would agree with you on this because when I say altcoins, I am referring to majority of coins that are created through ICO.

[worle1bm]

As this topic is essentially about Bitcoin, not altcoins (as the tittle wily but deceivingly suggests), I think it is a correct board to start it in

Many of us are wondering what would happen if crypto vanished altogether (and probably having jitters at such a thought). Well, I'm not that cruel, and only propose to discuss the less evil problem, if a problem at all. That is, will Bitcoin as well as a few selected altcoins (say, a couple or so) benefit from the complete disappearance of the total majority of altcoins from the cryptocurrency arena?

As I'm inclined to think, a few remaining coins would benefit dramatically. My train of thought is as follows. We can  plausibly claim that Bitcoin would be far better off now if not for the huge pile of shitcoins that turned out outright scams at the end of the day. People wouldn't have lost their money in these schemes, and they wouldn't lose it if they invested it in Bitcoin instead. Simple and straightforward logic, right?

In the same vein it is natural to assume that the death of the altcoin world would eventually do only good to Bitcoin in the long run as people won't be losing money anymore. So what d'ya think?

I have a different opinion. For me, no altcoin is scam coin. It is wrong to say that coin A is scam coin because associated project with coin A never launched or team ran away. Coins still remain decentralized and works perfectly like bitcoin even if project gets scrapped. Bitcoin offers nothing more than an average ERC-20 token. It works same as an average ERC-20 token. The reason why the price of Bitcoin is so high is the trust on the long-built network of decentralized nodes which keep bitcoin functional. No other cryptocurrency have similar network. So even if other coins remain or vanishes, bitcoin won't be affected much in either positive or negative term.

[Slow death]

[...]

https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all

now we have 5,067 altcoins... It is known that most of these altcoins are pump and dump schemes and people buy bitcoin to trade with these pump and dump altcoins, this means that these altcoins also contribute to bitcoin adoption and it seems to me that these altcoins are not going to die anytime soon, as hard as it is to understand, there are many people who like altcoins (even though in many cases these people are at a very large loss they still hold altcoin)

[darkangel11]

We should specify that all altcoins will never disappear and they should not disappear. Altcoins have their roles. They are probing different areas, looking for new uses without compromising the main thing that gives all cryptocurrencies their current value - Bitcoin.
We need them to be those frontiersmen. Their failures are showing Bitcoin where it could improve and where it should not because going that way may lead to loss of value.
Also failures of altcoins show people how strong Bitcoin is compared to shitcoins and how it handles a bear market vs altcoins.

Most shitcoins should die but not all of them.

[deisik]

The thing is, when that time there's a lot of running ICO, they invested on it as ICO that time are so profitable, but then its just normal for risk management purpose that the team who own a project in ICO would raise BTC and ETH as these two coins are more stable compared to the others and even some have converted their ETH for bitcoin, so btc's demand increases

Okay, I see your point

It could be said that people who invested in altcoins and ICO's were also indirectly investing in Bitcoin. That, technically speaking, may be true per se, but we must keep in mind two things. First of all, investing in Bitcoin through ICO's (as you now confirm) doesn't mean that people wouldn't have invested in Bitcoin if there hadn't been these ICO's

Further, and more importantly, these investments failed for the most part in the end, with folks losing their money. Obviously, they wouldn't lose it had they invested in Bitcoin instead. So any way you look at it, these failed ICO's damaged Bitcoin in the long run even if they had first contributed to its growth (which is a big if in and of itself)