[VIDEO]The Empirical Proof of Bitcoin's Real Value Being Zero

[antikvark]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

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[mohdk52]

The price of bitcoin is zero only if no one will invest in it

[franky1]

bitcoin is not a product that is sold. bitcoin is a payment system. its only function is to move value.

the price of bitcoin is not 100% speculative at the moment its 50% cost of acquisition value which is controlled by the mining cost of cheaper to mine or cheaper to buy supply/demand economics. and then speculative volatility ontop.

gold for instance has a similar scheme where the price is ~$900 of acquisition cost value. and the rest is speculative

things like fiat only cost a few cents to make a $20 bank note. so fiats value is not held by its cost. but more so by laws that make it relevant.
the only reason why the dollar is relevant is because of wage/tax laws keeping it relevant. but here is the thing. if the US are contracted to debt of $xxtrillion. they can easily change the law to make a new currency relevant and because the debt contracts demand dollar. they can hyper inflate the obsolete dollar to a loaf of bread costing $xxtrill and pay off the debt

bitcoins value is bitcoins value. its not made relevant just by law. its made relevant due to its utility and due to the fact it actually costs something to acquire it

[DannyHamilton]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

More nonsense videos from antikvark.

Why am I not surprised.

I suggest, DO NOT WATCH HIS VIDEO.  He posts here to drive up his view count on YouTube. Watching his video just increases his ability to distribute his nonsense to more people.

[antikvark]

bitcoin is not a product that is sold. bitcoin is a payment system. its only function is to move value.

the price of bitcoin is not 100% speculative at the moment its 50% cost of acquisition value which is controlled by the mining cost of cheaper to mine or cheaper to buy supply/demand economics. and then speculative volatility ontop.

gold for instance has a similar scheme where the price is ~$900 of acquisition cost value. and the rest is speculative

things like fiat only cost a few cents to make a $20 bank note. so fiats value is not held by its cost. but more so by laws that make it relevant.
the only reason why the dollar is relevant is because of wage/tax laws keeping it relevant. but here is the thing. if the US are contracted to debt of $xxtrillion. they can easily change the law to make a new currency relevant and because the debt contracts demand dollar. they can hyper inflate the obsolete dollar to a loaf of bread costing $xxtrill and pay off the debt

bitcoins value is bitcoins value. its not made relevant just by law. its made relevant due to its utility and due to the fact it actually costs something to acquire it

SWIFT is also a payment system. So? What that has to do with a value of a particular instrument transferred via this system?

[odolvlobo]

In the video, you are confusing financial instruments with money. Money is not a financial instrument. Also, Bitcoin is not loan-created money, so your claim that Bitcoin makes no payments is irrelevant.

Also, Bitcoin cannot be a Ponzi scheme. There are no operators and it is 100% transparent. You either don't understand how Bitcoin works or you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is, or both.

[TheNewAnon135246]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

Take a gold nugget, go to a random supermarket and try to pay for your groceries. Please let us know how it went.

[antikvark]

In the video, you are confusing financial instruments with money. Money is not a financial instrument. Also, Bitcoin is not loan-created money, so your claim that Bitcoin makes no payments is irrelevant.

Also, Bitcoin cannot be a Ponzi scheme. There are no operators and it is 100% transparent. You either don't understand how Bitcoin works or you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is, or both.

There is no mention of money in the video. Money can be everything that functions as a generally recognized medium of exchange for transactional purposes. Financial instruments on the other hand, are paper or digital records. Given that records are worthless on their own, their issuers must pay something to their holders. They do that in all instruments except Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is ponzi-like. Its issuers pay nothing to its holders, the same as Ponzi scheme organizers pay nothing to scheme members.

[DannyHamilton]

In Ponzi, the payment is possible only from funds of other investors. In bitcoin also. And that's the point.

In ALL TRANSACTIONS, payment is only possible from funds of someone else paying you.  That's the DEFINITION OF A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION.

You seem to like to say:

"Look, someone paid someone, in a Ponzi people pay people, therefore it is a Ponzi!"

Then when someone points out that there are lots of reasons that people pay people, and that they are not all Ponzi, you respond with:

"Those examples are beside the point.  In those examples, someone paid someone and since they were paid it's ok.  But in Bitcoin someone pays someone, and in Ponzi someone pays someone, therefore Bitcoin is a Ponzi!"

It's circular nonsense that carries no meaning.  Yes, in a scam, a person is convinced to give another person something of value. That is NOT what makes it a scam.  People give other people things of value all the time in situations that are not a scam.  Until you can understand this, you aren't going to get anywhere in this conversation.

What matters is that its holders are not paid by the issuers

One cannot be paid by someone that does not exist.  What matters is that holders should not expect to be paid by anyone for holding.  It is not an "investment" into a business.  It does not pay "dividends" or "interest".  It is inflationary money that will eventually become deflationary.

like in all legitimate investments, but by other bitcoin investors, like in Ponzi schemes.

There you go saying words again that don't make sense, and that are contradictory.

[Mpamaegbu]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

I bet this is another FUD technique from one of the whales or financial institutions wanting Bitcoin price to crash for their selfish target. Well, such a device mechanism won't work now because the people are already hooked on Bitcoin. You can try this trash with the altcoins, I might work. But certainly not with Bitcoin. We move.

[antikvark]

In Ponzi, the payment is possible only from funds of other investors. In bitcoin also. And that's the point.

In ALL TRANSACTIONS, payment is only possible from funds of someone else paying you.  That's the DEFINITION OF A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION.

You seem to like to say:

"Look, someone paid someone, in a Ponzi people pay people, therefore it is a Ponzi!"

Then when someone points out that there are lots of reasons that people pay people, and that they are not all Ponzi, you respond with:

"Those examples are beside the point.  In those examples, someone paid someone and since they were paid it's ok.  But in Bitcoin someone pays someone, and in Ponzi someone pays someone, therefore Bitcoin is a Ponzi!"

It's circular nonsense that carries no meaning.  Yes, in a scam, a person is convinced to give another person something of value. That is NOT what makes it a scam.  People give other people things of value all the time in situations that are not a scam.  Until you can understand this, you aren't going to get anywhere in this conversation.

What matters is that its holders are not paid by the issuers

One cannot be paid by someone that does not exist.  What matters is that holders should not expect to be paid by anyone for holding.  It is not an "investment" into a business.  It does not pay "dividends" or "interest".  It is inflationary money that will eventually become deflationary.

like in all legitimate investments, but by other bitcoin investors, like in Ponzi schemes.

There you go saying words again that don't make sense, and that are contradictory.

You must educate yourself about basic economic concepts.

When an instrument issuer pays divided, interest, principal or non-monetary value to an instrument holder this is not market transaction but the fulfilment of issuer's obligation.

On the other hand, market transaction is an instance of buying or selling something.

Finally, Ponzi-like is when you invest funds into some project or instrument that pays returns not from project's activity or funds of the instrument issuer, but from the funds of new investors. Bitcoin perfectly fits that definition.

[Darker45]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

I don't need to watch the video. I just need to look at the price of Bitcoin right now. It says Bitcoin is price valued at $9,405.65. That is enough to debunk any claim that Bitcoin's real value is zero. The real value of a few thousand bills in my country is probably worth less than a couple cups of rice. And yet, because of the value we assign to those small cuts of paper, we can actually buy a sack of rice with them. Every value is assigned.

[TheNewAnon135246]

In Ponzi, the payment is possible only from funds of other investors. In bitcoin also. And that's the point.

In ALL TRANSACTIONS, payment is only possible from funds of someone else paying you.  That's the DEFINITION OF A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION.

You seem to like to say:

"Look, someone paid someone, in a Ponzi people pay people, therefore it is a Ponzi!"

Then when someone points out that there are lots of reasons that people pay people, and that they are not all Ponzi, you respond with:

"Those examples are beside the point.  In those examples, someone paid someone and since they were paid it's ok.  But in Bitcoin someone pays someone, and in Ponzi someone pays someone, therefore Bitcoin is a Ponzi!"

It's circular nonsense that carries no meaning.  Yes, in a scam, a person is convinced to give another person something of value. That is NOT what makes it a scam.  People give other people things of value all the time in situations that are not a scam.  Until you can understand this, you aren't going to get anywhere in this conversation.

What matters is that its holders are not paid by the issuers

One cannot be paid by someone that does not exist.  What matters is that holders should not expect to be paid by anyone for holding.  It is not an "investment" into a business.  It does not pay "dividends" or "interest".  It is inflationary money that will eventually become deflationary.

like in all legitimate investments, but by other bitcoin investors, like in Ponzi schemes.

There you go saying words again that don't make sense, and that are contradictory.

You must educate yourself about basic economic concepts.

When an instrument issuer pays divided, interest, principal or non-monetary value to an instrument holder this is not market transaction but the fulfilment of issuer's obligation.

On the other hand, market transaction is an instance of buying or selling something.

Finally, Ponzi-like is when you invest funds into some project or instrument that pays returns not from project's activity or funds of the instrument issuer, but from the funds of new investors. Bitcoin perfectly fits that definition.

Fidelity, a company with $2,460,000,000,000 under its management, seems to disagree: https://unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-obsoletes-all-other-money/ (tweeted here: https://twitter.com/DigitalAssets/status/1223306849275076608?s=19)

You are horribly failing at what you're doing. No sure what your agenda is but you should consider.to stop wasting your time and go do something else.

[Wexnident]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't it kind of different to compare Bitcoin to the rest as show in in the video? I mean, there's a single entity, let's say the company, that is behind those you call "issuers". Then, there's Bitcoin, in which your argument states holds no issuers.

The start is different because companies could produce their payments, while Bitcoin, in its entirety, already exists at its creation. Just that, it requires a community to pull it out, so we could technically say that the community is both the issuers and the holders. In situation A where companies issue money/stocks/etc to the world, after issuing it, it flows through the globe, but in Situation B, you can already say that the money flows to the globe without the need for someone to issue it, hence the unneeded factor of paying something back to its holders, because holders are issuers themselves, and at the same time, issuers are holders themselves.

[SquallLeonhart]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

I don't need to watch the video. I just need to look at the price of Bitcoin right now. It says Bitcoin is price valued at $9,405.65. That is enough to debunk any claim that Bitcoin's real value is zero. The real value of a few thousand bills in my country is probably worth less than a couple cups of rice. And yet, because of the value we assign to those small cuts of paper, we can actually buy a sack of rice with them. Every value is assigned.

The real value for bitcoins is above $9400 as you said, but perhaps in the traditional world bitcoins might not have any value yet. In the real world, traditional payment systems are been encouraged which includes paper money, digital centralized wallets like PayPal, etc which can easily be traded by the people for a specific value. Their value does not keep on changing to major extend as the time passes by which as compared to bitcoins might never have a stable price.

Bitcoins have most volatile price which can't allow the people/investors to rely on a single stable price of bitcoins and this is what might have kept the value of bitcoins zero to the real world who do not have the ability to understand the graphs and patterns.

[gentlemand]

Why did I know this vid would have a robotic voice before even opening it?

Show yourself and let's hear your honeyed tones, laboured breathing and sloppy chops.

As for the theme of the vid, that's lovely. Have fun.

[antikvark]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

I bet this is another FUD technique from one of the whales or financial institutions wanting Bitcoin price to crash for their selfish target. Well, such a device mechanism won't work now because the people are already hooked on Bitcoin. You can try this trash with the altcoins, I might work. But certainly not with Bitcoin. We move.

When you tell the flat Earth or Bitcoin community that the Earth is round or that Bitcoin has zero real value, you are spreading FUD by definition. I got that. But what that has to do with Earth's shape or Bitcoin's value? Nothing. The topic at hand in not about emotions in the bitcoin community but about Bitcoin's real value.

[antikvark]

In Ponzi, the payment is possible only from funds of other investors. In bitcoin also. And that's the point.

In ALL TRANSACTIONS, payment is only possible from funds of someone else paying you.  That's the DEFINITION OF A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION.

You seem to like to say:

"Look, someone paid someone, in a Ponzi people pay people, therefore it is a Ponzi!"

Then when someone points out that there are lots of reasons that people pay people, and that they are not all Ponzi, you respond with:

"Those examples are beside the point.  In those examples, someone paid someone and since they were paid it's ok.  But in Bitcoin someone pays someone, and in Ponzi someone pays someone, therefore Bitcoin is a Ponzi!"

It's circular nonsense that carries no meaning.  Yes, in a scam, a person is convinced to give another person something of value. That is NOT what makes it a scam.  People give other people things of value all the time in situations that are not a scam.  Until you can understand this, you aren't going to get anywhere in this conversation.

What matters is that its holders are not paid by the issuers

One cannot be paid by someone that does not exist.  What matters is that holders should not expect to be paid by anyone for holding.  It is not an "investment" into a business.  It does not pay "dividends" or "interest".  It is inflationary money that will eventually become deflationary.

like in all legitimate investments, but by other bitcoin investors, like in Ponzi schemes.

There you go saying words again that don't make sense, and that are contradictory.

You must educate yourself about basic economic concepts.

When an instrument issuer pays divided, interest, principal or non-monetary value to an instrument holder this is not market transaction but the fulfilment of issuer's obligation.

On the other hand, market transaction is an instance of buying or selling something.

Finally, Ponzi-like is when you invest funds into some project or instrument that pays returns not from project's activity or funds of the instrument issuer, but from the funds of new investors. Bitcoin perfectly fits that definition.

Fidelity, a company with $2,460,000,000,000 under its management, seems to disagree: https://unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-obsoletes-all-other-money/ (tweeted here: https://twitter.com/DigitalAssets/status/1223306849275076608?s=19)

You are horribly failing at what you're doing. No sure what your agenda is but you should consider.to stop wasting your time and go do something else.

Fidelity cannot change facts. The fact is that Bitcoin issuers pay nothing to Bitcon holders. The fact is also that the real value of a financial instrument is in a direct causal relationship with payment. The more an instrument issuer pays the higher the instrument's real value will be. And vice versa, the less it pays the lower the instrument's real value will be. If it pays zero the instrument's real value is zero. Whatever Fidelity does, won't change this casual relationship. This relationship is factual, empirical - you can observe it at every instance of economic reality.

[chip1994]

The linked 5-minute video provides a simple and undeniable proof that the real value of Bitcoin is zero. It does that by showing that Bitcoin lacks the fundamental feature for which all financial instruments exist in the first place, and that is to provide payment to their holders.

https://youtu.be/WSYTXmxPveY

Yes, I know this very well. Surely no one here wants to hold on to a volatile asset class and there are very few services that accept payments in bitcoin. But that's just the situation at the moment. What do you think about half of the world's population believes that bitcoin is digital gold? then many people will put money to buy bitcoin because it is traded a lot on large exchanges and buying it is easy. We can buy it for the right price and very low fee. As the crowd increasingly accepts that, the world will adopt a new type of digital asset. our world can happen anything, it is important how the crowd will prove it. I believe that bitcoin is now worth nothing, but one day in the future it will become the easiest asset to use and exchange.

[TheNewAnon135246]

Derp

There are no 'Bitcoin issuers'. Maybe go back to reading the whitepaper before spewing more verbal diarrhea?