[POLL] China Virus Source

[eddie13]

Their has been some word of virus samples being smuggled out of a Canadian research facility to the Wuhan lab..
The Wuhan lab could have legitimately acquired the virus from Russia, the US, or any other more advanced lab around the world doing similar research..
(could be more advanced than what China can create on its own)

The Wuhan lab could have had 1000 such viruses created for SARS vaccine research and accidentally spilled/released them all, and this one nCoV happened to be one of them, and happened to be very dangerous by chance of numbers, which is why it is the one that spread..
How many experimental modified viruses do you figure would be created in attempt to find a good SARS vaccine?

Plenty of possibilities that it could have been an accidental release IMO..

Also, if I would suspect anyone of doing any amount of evil human testing, especially on a massive scale, then it would be China #1..
With all of their prisoners that just go missing, concentration camps, organ harvesting from prisoners, I wouldn't put it past them to be medically experimenting on prisoners and they would be a #1 suspect.. Their buddy North Korea would also be a prime suspect of human experimentation, and Russia (past or present).. How convenient they are geographically connected..

Even if simply testing on animals wouldn't suffice for the vast amount of virus selection research, China and NK have vast stocks of prisoners for testing and the exact dispositions required to carry out such vile acts against humanity..
The exact lack of empathy required, proven well through their common practice skinning of dogs alive to harvest their leather, same for many other animals, and even lack of empathy for their own people..
China even has quite a history of straight up Cannibalism..

People like to talk about the Nazi human experiments but you might wonder what experiments China and Russia may have done while they killed easily 10X more people in their concentration camps and mass slaughters than Hitler did.. Cambodia and NK too are known for exterminating people..

The most prime of suspects..

________________
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-whether-2019-ncov-was-bio-engineered
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-origins-coronavirus/story?id=68807304

But could we even trust the White House to tell us the truth if they happen to find that it was infact bio-engineered?

"China is lying, the virus was indeed engineered" officially says the US?
That aught to be good for China-US relations.. I doubt it would be announced..

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[tvbcof]

From back in 2015:

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lab-made-coronavirus-triggers-debate-34502

'gain of function' is one of the main goals of the scientists playing around with this sort of engineering, and the risks have been well known for some time.  In this story, the guy who's lab was funded to do it thought the benefits were worth the risks but a lot of other scientists disagreed.

I call attention to ^^^ mainly because it is clearly news to people that this type of engineering is commonplace and has been for a while.  People who don't know that little bit of trivia are more susceptible to the 'conspiracy theory' psy-op.

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I would also point out that 'eating' animals has nearly nothing to do with the recombinant genetics issue.  Where it becomes a factor is in widescale farming operations where there are conditions which vastly increase the chances of random variation.  This is by definition NOT the case with 'bush meat'.

The theory that a wild bat and an pangolin mixed their coronaviruses is already very very low (particularly of one or the other was dead.)  The chances that a wild bat mixed it's coronavirus with a pangolin which happened to also have sars, aids, and ebola is actually very high...but only in Hollywood.  Alas, Hollywood is where most people's 'science' comes from these days.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

I find it very strange there has been so many people infected this throws some serious doubt on the fact it's been caused by people "eating" something I find the growth rate of it to be interesting I fear this is not something that has come from the food chain but something more serious being airborne hence the speed it has managed to infect some areas.

You have to think there has never been such a rapidly spreading virus in human history this leads me to think there is something more than just some people eating bat's  that has caused this and that narrative is just a way to play down the real cause of this outbreak.

I think there has to be something more to this that is being reported in the media.

[tvbcof]

The only thing I could in good conscious vote 'for' (meaning I consider the probability above around 95%) would be simply 'lab created'.  There is simply not enough data at this point for me to go any farther than that.

Well, you get to cast 3 votes for what options you would think are most likely..
...

The observations which I try to fit in to hythothesese include the observation that _everyone_ wants to do everything possible to explain this as a natural event.

One possibility is that the goodie was created in the West and lifted by China in a semi-covert manner.  Then they either tried to do something with it which involved many of their citizens (like vaccinate them possibly using some of the new-ish mosquito syringe methods that Bill Gates gets wood over) and it backfired.  Or they just had an accidental loss of control of the goodie or internal sabotage.  In this case the West would have a strong interest in passing the thing off as naturally forming in Asia and the Chinese would likewise prefer to sweep the issue under the rug in this way (yet again.)

Another option:  Fairly straight-up biological weapons attack on China by the U.S. in response to China giving Iran 'plasma shield' technology allowing them to hit any target they like (see, Saudi refineries, U.S. used military bases in Iraq, etc.)  Also perhaps giving Iran nukes and thus interrupting a very very hoped for and suddenly aborted war just recently.

Another (you knew that an 'anti-semitic' one was likely, right?):  The U.S. was directed by our bosses in Israel to attack China with ethnic bio-weapons and make it fairly obvious.  China will almost certainly respond in the same manner and up the ante.  WW-III, and thus an opportunity for the 'Jews' to take their God-given and rightful place as leaders of the world from their nice new shiny 'third temple' in Jerusalem* (with Rothschild symbols all over it) and 'bring world peace'.

(*) I've always expected Jerusalem to become yet another 'burnt offering' and New-Jerusalem being geographically in Babylon (of Babylonian Talmud fame) or Khazaria.

[TECSHARE]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

-Justifies total lock down
-Effectively ends all legal dissent
-Perfect cover for rounding up dissidents
-Depopulation of an increasingly rebellious population they are losing control of & dependents
-Provides a good scapegoat for the failing economy
-Provides good fodder for spreading stories it was a Western attack to incite hatred & nationalism
-Provides a "controlled" environment to practice their bio-warfare defensive and offensive abilities

I am sure there is more, but this is what immediately comes to mind. The CCP sees life as being cheap, I wouldn't put this past them. When suspicious events happen, the first question should always be... cui bono?

[canamani]

I think this is what happen , Accidental Manmade Research Virus Leak - Unintentional Bioweapon, i see a news on TV that they create the virus in laboratory to test something, but i couldn't register that at that time and now i can't see that anywhere and also they don't anymore talk about this.

[theymos]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

I don't think they'd do it to themselves intentionally. In Chinese culture, there's traditionally a belief that "luck" is actually sort of a skill, so the Chinese people are much more willing to blame the government for natural disasters and such. In other words, to the Chinese, this epidemic tends to come across as a direct failure of the government even before you consider any government response; it's not merely an uncontrollable event that the government might or might not rise to the challenge in handling, as we'd see it in the West. (In part, this is why the Chinese government likes to cover up these sorts of issues.)

Their program of social credit & surveillance is IMO their most effective path toward controlling their population.

[TECSHARE]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

I don't think they'd do it to themselves intentionally. In Chinese culture, there's traditionally a belief that "luck" is actually sort of a skill, so the Chinese people are much more willing to blame the government for natural disasters and such. In other words, to the Chinese, this epidemic tends to come across as a direct failure of the government even before you consider any government response; it's not merely an uncontrollable event that the government might or might not rise to the challenge in handling, as we'd see it in the West. (In part, this is why the Chinese government likes to cover up these sorts of issues.)

Their program of social credit & surveillance is IMO their most effective path toward controlling their population.

Unless of course they can simply convince its population it was a Western bio-weapon, then that narrative would serve them well spurring nationalism as I already mentioned.

[Febo]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

But it cant be from soup. When you make a soup you boil it. When you heat something at at least 60 degrees Celsius you kill all bacteria or viruses. So it is impossible. From a bat sandwich yes, from a bat soup a big No!

[eddie13]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

But it cant be from soup. When you make a soup you boil it. When you heat something at at least 60 degrees Celsius you kill all bacteria or viruses. So it is impossible. From a bat sandwich yes, from a bat soup a big No!

More likely from handling the bats to prepare them for market/soup, than from the eating of well boiled soup, I agree..  

It looks like the way the sell them in the market is to skewer em down the mouth with a sick, then flame their hair off with a torch before sale, which I don't think would thoroughly cook them..
It seems they also remove the wings to be sold separately.. (uncooked?)

Edit: https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o <Not China
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no

I believe this is the "official narrative".. Or was the first official suspect..

[TECSHARE]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/canadian-scientist-center-chinese-bio-espionage-probe-found-dead-africa

[btcbeliever]

https://www.newswars.com/bioweapons-expert-delivers-urgent-message-to-trump-on-coronavirus-outbreak/

[gabmen]

Well it could also be from negligence of the people where it started. I mean, yeah let's face it, the chinese government isn't telling us everything. But consuming bats or snakes or whatever without proper hygiene and preparation would certainly put anyone at risk of getting a disease. I've seen  videos taken from the market where it all started and this could've started way before.

[Last of the V8s]

It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that.

I can verify that they do sell bats there.. Right alongside snakes..
https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no
snipped

(referencing the Huanan wet market in Wuhan)

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter - is it Vietnamese?
The second has some footage from China yay, and some of it may be Wuhan.
Having said all that, sure you could buy bat and snake at Huanan before it was closed down.

[af_newbie]

It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that.

I can verify that they do sell bats there.. Right alongside snakes..
https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no
snipped

(referencing the Huanan wet market in Wuhan)

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter - is it Vietnamese?
The second has some footage from China yay, and some of it may be Wuhan.
Having said all that, sure you could buy bat and snake at Huanan before it was closed down.

It is Langowan Market, Indonesia.

[Cnut237]

From a bat sandwich yes

Frankly, if I was eating a bat sandwich I'd be more surprised if I didn't contract some hideous disease.

[eddie13]

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter

Oh well it got me..
I am not familiar enough with the various asian social characteristics you mention to recognize such things.. 

You know of any videos that are for sure the Wuhan market in question?

[Last of the V8s]

eh hard to find something with bats or pangolins, but they would certainly have been for sale there. This is the market fwiw
https://twitter.com/WBYeats1865/status/1212087473435639814?s=20
https://twitter.com/WBYeats1865/status/1211929557357359104?s=20

*nsfl* warning some of his most recent tweets are bloody - to do with a beaten HK protester.

https://twitter.com/Dystopia992/status/1219777687138422785?s=20
dunno if the 'leaked' stills here are, as claimed, from the relevant market, but they are certainly indicative of what goes on

[tvbcof]

(This being a Bitcoin related forum...)

If I fired up a CPU miner on my laptop and mined the next 5 blocks, it is possible?  Sure it is.  It is highly unlikely though.  Anyone who understands almost anything about the technology will seek alternate explanations to the 'got lucky' one.  Some individuals will hold fast to the 'just luck' explanation depending on their disposition, and a ton of them will see the ramifications and promote the 'just luck' explanation as a self-preservation mechanism.

In fact, Darwinian evolution and Bitcoin-style blockchain mining are quite similar:  A vast amount of random trials with an extraordinarily tiny chance that any one test will 'work'.  Success is all about 'hash rate'.  Intensive farming practices can and often do up the hash rate quite a bit.  Like getting a rack full of ASIC miner to replace your raspberry pi.

It may not be very clear to people, but viruses can only 'roll the dice' in living tissue because they rely on living cells to assemble new viruses.  On a factory farm they have a subject lifetime to cross-infect can replicate.  In a meat market with wild game additional viruses have between zero and one 'roll of the dice' to try to make something happen.


Think of things like this:

  - nature: blockchain mining on a raseberry pi with basically guessing the sha256 algorithm.

  - vintage [pre-1950s] lab (often a hostpital, school, military barracks) (pre-1960's):  blockchain mining with a GPU and an optimized algorithm.

  - modern facility:  As many ASIC as needed, but not many needed because sha256 has been broken.

[eddie13]

As of right now we are at..

22 Natural -VS- 34 Man made