[POLL] China Virus Source

[eddie13]

What do you think?




Corona memes also accepted..

[1715469750]

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[TECSHARE]

That original or a repost?

[squatz1]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

Highly doubt it's some CRAZY conspiracy from the rich to kill all of the poor....

[eddie13]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

Highly doubt it's some CRAZY conspiracy from the rich to kill all of the poor....

I doubt that too but I'm leaning more towards it was a leak from that lab..


#Pangolin was identified as a potential intermediate host of the novel #coronavirus: South China Agricultural University announced early Friday morning
https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1225608250487267328

Some sort of scaled anteater thing.. Adding to poll..

[tvbcof]

I cannot vote because none of your options match.  I would say:

 "
Lab created:  ('lab' or 'natural')
  - reason for creation unknown (vaccine research, bio-warfare, both.)
  - lab unknown (many state and non-state actors, or teams consisting of both, can and do create these things.)
  - release method unknown (accidental or deliberate.)
"

I was pretty suspicious of the 'bat eaters' explanation for a few reasons.  It's unlikely to happen that way in nature, and it was promoted in such a way that indicated someone was desperate for an explanation which was anything but 'lab created'.  It was presented as fact without any analysis which could have provided scientifically valid substance to the assertion.  Since it is common knowledge that lots of parties are screwing around with recombination genetics on these things, the likelihood of it being lab created is simply much greater than the alternate hypothesis.

Subsequent sequencing data has added to the already high probability of it being lab created as I see it.  On top of that, the censorship and deception employed in mainstream-land fits best a scenario where certain people are VERY interested in having the 'chi-com bat eaters' explanation being the only one which most people are aware of.  The extreme interest in this makes the most sense in a situation where 'truth' is not on the 'right side' else straightforward and open science would tend to be favored over secrecy and censorship.

[TECSHARE]

It does provide a pretty convenient excuse for China's failing economy, and also lets them point fingers that the US is trying to use bio-weapons against them, as well as gives them the ability to declare martial law, quarantine everyone, and lock everything down preventing dissent.

[Naida_BR]

Corona virus started naturally from the unhealthy eating habits of the Chinese people.
Bats and rats are dirty animals that are leaving in places full of diseases and malicious creatures.

[Kuffy]

Well it won't be from eating cooked food, as cooking will kill the virus.

It could be that man encouraged the mutation. Only about 30% of the medication used in previous coronavirus treatments was used by the human body. The rest was passed through into the environment,and may have been picked up by bats or other mammals, and this allowed the virus to mutate, The only effective defence against these pandemics is a strong natural immune system, but there is constant pressure to reduce or disable it with smoking, drugs, vaccination, chemotherapy and other processes designed to enrich the bankers.

[mindrust]

I know that it is not natural but I can't be sure of the attacker.

Could be any of those countries you listed above or maybe China just blew itself up because they weren't capable enough to develop&handle bio-weapons. Or maybe there was a US spy who fcked things up there.

Could be everything but natural.

People have been eating weird shit in Asia for centuries. This wasn't a natural incident.

[tvbcof]

There are many valid reasons to create custom viruses which are NOT 'biowarfare'.  Pure science just to understand things better is one, but the main one is probably vaccine research.  The key is to come up with one which creates an immune response as though it were the 'real thing' but is not as dangerous as the disease one is trying to combat.  At least that is the idea.

OP is doing a dis-service to logic by having only two choices 'natural' or 'biowarfare'.

Most people don't know that state of the science on the bio-engineering front, and most people are completely conditioned to reflexively reject any notion that bio-warfare could possible be a factor in anything real.  Propagandists will use techniques like giving people only two choices knowing that one of them is impossible for most people to make (thus ensuring that people will side with a particular option.)  I doubt that the OP is deliberately doing this, but the end result is the same.

OTOH, this is just a silly poll on an obscure forum which doesn't matter much either.  But it is illustrative of one of the many propaganda techniques in common use.

[Kuffy]

Given that it seems that most of the world will be exposed to infection as some stage in the not too distant future, it would be great if we could have some information on how to overcome the infection. Face masks might be good protection against secondary infections, but they are pretty useless against coronavirus in my opinion. It seems that smoking helps the virus to bond, but this doesn't seem to be reported anywhere. The closest you can get is the fact that more men than women in China contract complications. 41% of Chinese males smoke, and only around 1.5% of women do so. This could be an explanation, but nobody seems to have tried to correlate it. The tobacco industry is huge, so no doubt any info will be suppressed anyway,

[eddie13]

OP is doing a dis-service to logic by having only two choices 'natural' or 'biowarfare'.

I doubt that the OP is deliberately doing this, but the end result is the same.

You are right!

I will add it to the poll as "Accidental Manmade Research Virus Leak - Unintentional Bioweapon"...
Though I expected you to hit as Israel/Mossad..

Added..

[tvbcof]

OP is doing a dis-service to logic by having only two choices 'natural' or 'biowarfare'.

I doubt that the OP is deliberately doing this, but the end result is the same.

You are right!

I will add it to the poll as "Accidental Manmade Research Virus Leak - Unintentional Bioweapon"...
Though I expected you to hit as Israel/Mossad..

Added..

I voted for the new entry out of deference to your flexibility.  In fact, that's a mis-vote also.  The only thing I could in good conscious vote 'for' (meaning I consider the probability above around 95%) would be simply 'lab created'.  There is simply not enough data at this point for me to go any farther than that.

I would have some trouble with your choices because I consider:

 - China,
 - USA,
 - Rogue CIA - Deepstate,
 - Israel,
 - Rogue Mossad - Deepstate,
 - Saudi Arabia,
 - Bioweapon - Attack By Bill Gates - Agenda 21

to all be either flip sides of the same coin, or working in coordination on 'important projects'.  Most to all of these entities are animated by the same basic integrated monetary system.  As usual, hindsight by looking at who's goal are achieved will be a big puzzle piece when it falls into place.

Most people will 'look forward not back' however.  And will consequently be tripping on the same basic ditch for all of their (often shortened) life.

[Negotiation]

I think the coronavirus is caused by an unhealthy environment This is usually natural. If it is in a dirty environment touch the wild animals where they spit cuffs and then spread the coronavirus without playing well when eating food. It usually occurs directly in the lungs of a human.

[fratoshi]

I voted Natural unknown.

[Cnut237]

I went with bats.

...

I mean in the poll, not any other context.

I'm covering what we all know, but... the Lancet is pretty reputable, and their article the other week is quite persuasive. It's summarised here, too. A small sample of gene sequences from 9 patients in China were 99.98% identical... so very little mutation of the virus since it moved to humans, which suggests it moved to humans only extremely recently. "This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV originated from one source within a very short period and was detected relatively rapidly."
The one source, as widely reported... Huanan seafood market seems to be the common location. It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that. Perhaps they were selling bats under the counter? Hanging from the counter. Small font because it's a bad joke. Sorry.

But if they in fact didn't sell any bats, then bat>pangolin>human does seem a likely path... they found 99% similarity between the virus in humans and that in pangolins, so... I am tempted by pangolins (in the poll). I know pangolins are trafficked for wacky 'alternative medicine', but I wasn't aware that people eat them, too.

Also I think SARs went bats>civets>humans, which does provide at least some evidence that people tend to get bat diseases via an intermediary species, so perhaps there is an aversion to eating bats directly.

[af_newbie]

I went with bats.

...

I mean in the poll, not any other context.

I'm covering what we all know, but... the Lancet is pretty reputable, and their article the other week is quite persuasive. It's summarised here, too. A small sample of gene sequences from 9 patients in China were 99.98% identical... so very little mutation of the virus since it moved to humans, which suggests it moved to humans only extremely recently. "This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV originated from one source within a very short period and was detected relatively rapidly."
The one source, as widely reported... Huanan seafood market seems to be the common location. It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that. Perhaps they were selling bats under the counter? Hanging from the counter. Small font because it's a bad joke. Sorry.

But if they in fact didn't sell any bats, then bat>pangolin>human does seem a likely path... they found 99% similarity between the virus in humans and that in pangolins, so... I am tempted by pangolins (in the poll). I know pangolins are trafficked for wacky 'alternative medicine', but I wasn't aware that people eat them, too.

Also I think SARs went bats>civets>humans, which does provide at least some evidence that people tend to get bat diseases via an intermediary species, so perhaps there is an aversion to eating bats directly.

Once again, Hollywood got it right, 8 years ago.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/

As for the poll, of course the root cause is natural.

[tvbcof]

I went with bats.
...

Once again, Hollywood got it right, 8 years ago.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/

As for the poll, of course the root cause is natural.

There's been a ton of predictive programming about just such a thing over the years.  It makes it so 'they' can roll out the same excuse over and over again whenever they need to explain an 'epidemic' to the sheeple class.  Works like a champ too!

The chances of a virus with these characteristics coming about by chance in very limited environments where there is even vaguely possible is very low.  The chances of a virus with these characteristics coming together in a laboratory using tools designed to create exactly such things is actually very high.

It really is pretty funny to see someone say that 'Hollywood got it right' when 'getting it right' is defined almost exclusively by what a person saw from out of Hollywood.

[eddie13]

It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that.

I can verify that they do sell bats there.. Right alongside snakes..
Edit: https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o <Not China
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no

The only thing I could in good conscious vote 'for' (meaning I consider the probability above around 95%) would be simply 'lab created'.  There is simply not enough data at this point for me to go any farther than that.

Well, you get to cast 3 votes for what options you would think are most likely..


I don't buy that it naturally occurred because I think China wouldn't have locked their cities down so fast if they didn't know exactly what it was and how dangerous it was..
This quarantine is unprecedented and I can hardly believe China took such drastic action so early over just a few people getting sick..

Their is also a lot of reports of how the virus rna/dna sequence looks manipulated by man with parts of HIV, the flu, SARS, etc..

[theymos]

AFAIK, the technology is more-or-less there for creating a custom virus. The real technological barrier seems to be that although you can modify parts of a virus, it's not clear what you'd want to change in order to get any particular result. There isn't one "incubation time" knob that you can tweak on the virus, for example. If you wanted to take SARS and increase the incubation time & spread rate, I think you'd have to use tens of thousands of human test subjects in order to conduct trial-and-error modifications of the virus. I wouldn't exactly put it past the Chinese government, but natural emergence seems more likely. If they can't keep the actual virus from spreading, how are they going to keep a big scientific program with large-scale, evil human testing under wraps?

[eddie13]

Their has been some word of virus samples being smuggled out of a Canadian research facility to the Wuhan lab..
The Wuhan lab could have legitimately acquired the virus from Russia, the US, or any other more advanced lab around the world doing similar research..
(could be more advanced than what China can create on its own)

The Wuhan lab could have had 1000 such viruses created for SARS vaccine research and accidentally spilled/released them all, and this one nCoV happened to be one of them, and happened to be very dangerous by chance of numbers, which is why it is the one that spread..
How many experimental modified viruses do you figure would be created in attempt to find a good SARS vaccine?

Plenty of possibilities that it could have been an accidental release IMO..

Also, if I would suspect anyone of doing any amount of evil human testing, especially on a massive scale, then it would be China #1..
With all of their prisoners that just go missing, concentration camps, organ harvesting from prisoners, I wouldn't put it past them to be medically experimenting on prisoners and they would be a #1 suspect.. Their buddy North Korea would also be a prime suspect of human experimentation, and Russia (past or present).. How convenient they are geographically connected..

Even if simply testing on animals wouldn't suffice for the vast amount of virus selection research, China and NK have vast stocks of prisoners for testing and the exact dispositions required to carry out such vile acts against humanity..
The exact lack of empathy required, proven well through their common practice skinning of dogs alive to harvest their leather, same for many other animals, and even lack of empathy for their own people..
China even has quite a history of straight up Cannibalism..

People like to talk about the Nazi human experiments but you might wonder what experiments China and Russia may have done while they killed easily 10X more people in their concentration camps and mass slaughters than Hitler did.. Cambodia and NK too are known for exterminating people..

The most prime of suspects..

________________
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-whether-2019-ncov-was-bio-engineered
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-asks-scientists-investigate-origins-coronavirus/story?id=68807304

But could we even trust the White House to tell us the truth if they happen to find that it was infact bio-engineered?

"China is lying, the virus was indeed engineered" officially says the US?
That aught to be good for China-US relations.. I doubt it would be announced..

[tvbcof]

From back in 2015:

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lab-made-coronavirus-triggers-debate-34502

'gain of function' is one of the main goals of the scientists playing around with this sort of engineering, and the risks have been well known for some time.  In this story, the guy who's lab was funded to do it thought the benefits were worth the risks but a lot of other scientists disagreed.

I call attention to ^^^ mainly because it is clearly news to people that this type of engineering is commonplace and has been for a while.  People who don't know that little bit of trivia are more susceptible to the 'conspiracy theory' psy-op.

---

I would also point out that 'eating' animals has nearly nothing to do with the recombinant genetics issue.  Where it becomes a factor is in widescale farming operations where there are conditions which vastly increase the chances of random variation.  This is by definition NOT the case with 'bush meat'.

The theory that a wild bat and an pangolin mixed their coronaviruses is already very very low (particularly of one or the other was dead.)  The chances that a wild bat mixed it's coronavirus with a pangolin which happened to also have sars, aids, and ebola is actually very high...but only in Hollywood.  Alas, Hollywood is where most people's 'science' comes from these days.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

I find it very strange there has been so many people infected this throws some serious doubt on the fact it's been caused by people "eating" something I find the growth rate of it to be interesting I fear this is not something that has come from the food chain but something more serious being airborne hence the speed it has managed to infect some areas.

You have to think there has never been such a rapidly spreading virus in human history this leads me to think there is something more than just some people eating bat's  that has caused this and that narrative is just a way to play down the real cause of this outbreak.

I think there has to be something more to this that is being reported in the media.

[tvbcof]

The only thing I could in good conscious vote 'for' (meaning I consider the probability above around 95%) would be simply 'lab created'.  There is simply not enough data at this point for me to go any farther than that.

Well, you get to cast 3 votes for what options you would think are most likely..
...

The observations which I try to fit in to hythothesese include the observation that _everyone_ wants to do everything possible to explain this as a natural event.

One possibility is that the goodie was created in the West and lifted by China in a semi-covert manner.  Then they either tried to do something with it which involved many of their citizens (like vaccinate them possibly using some of the new-ish mosquito syringe methods that Bill Gates gets wood over) and it backfired.  Or they just had an accidental loss of control of the goodie or internal sabotage.  In this case the West would have a strong interest in passing the thing off as naturally forming in Asia and the Chinese would likewise prefer to sweep the issue under the rug in this way (yet again.)

Another option:  Fairly straight-up biological weapons attack on China by the U.S. in response to China giving Iran 'plasma shield' technology allowing them to hit any target they like (see, Saudi refineries, U.S. used military bases in Iraq, etc.)  Also perhaps giving Iran nukes and thus interrupting a very very hoped for and suddenly aborted war just recently.

Another (you knew that an 'anti-semitic' one was likely, right?):  The U.S. was directed by our bosses in Israel to attack China with ethnic bio-weapons and make it fairly obvious.  China will almost certainly respond in the same manner and up the ante.  WW-III, and thus an opportunity for the 'Jews' to take their God-given and rightful place as leaders of the world from their nice new shiny 'third temple' in Jerusalem* (with Rothschild symbols all over it) and 'bring world peace'.

(*) I've always expected Jerusalem to become yet another 'burnt offering' and New-Jerusalem being geographically in Babylon (of Babylonian Talmud fame) or Khazaria.

[TECSHARE]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

-Justifies total lock down
-Effectively ends all legal dissent
-Perfect cover for rounding up dissidents
-Depopulation of an increasingly rebellious population they are losing control of & dependents
-Provides a good scapegoat for the failing economy
-Provides good fodder for spreading stories it was a Western attack to incite hatred & nationalism
-Provides a "controlled" environment to practice their bio-warfare defensive and offensive abilities

I am sure there is more, but this is what immediately comes to mind. The CCP sees life as being cheap, I wouldn't put this past them. When suspicious events happen, the first question should always be... cui bono?

[canamani]

I think this is what happen , Accidental Manmade Research Virus Leak - Unintentional Bioweapon, i see a news on TV that they create the virus in laboratory to test something, but i couldn't register that at that time and now i can't see that anywhere and also they don't anymore talk about this.

[theymos]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

I don't think they'd do it to themselves intentionally. In Chinese culture, there's traditionally a belief that "luck" is actually sort of a skill, so the Chinese people are much more willing to blame the government for natural disasters and such. In other words, to the Chinese, this epidemic tends to come across as a direct failure of the government even before you consider any government response; it's not merely an uncontrollable event that the government might or might not rise to the challenge in handling, as we'd see it in the West. (In part, this is why the Chinese government likes to cover up these sorts of issues.)

Their program of social credit & surveillance is IMO their most effective path toward controlling their population.

[TECSHARE]

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

I don't think they'd do it to themselves intentionally. In Chinese culture, there's traditionally a belief that "luck" is actually sort of a skill, so the Chinese people are much more willing to blame the government for natural disasters and such. In other words, to the Chinese, this epidemic tends to come across as a direct failure of the government even before you consider any government response; it's not merely an uncontrollable event that the government might or might not rise to the challenge in handling, as we'd see it in the West. (In part, this is why the Chinese government likes to cover up these sorts of issues.)

Their program of social credit & surveillance is IMO their most effective path toward controlling their population.

Unless of course they can simply convince its population it was a Western bio-weapon, then that narrative would serve them well spurring nationalism as I already mentioned.

[Febo]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

But it cant be from soup. When you make a soup you boil it. When you heat something at at least 60 degrees Celsius you kill all bacteria or viruses. So it is impossible. From a bat sandwich yes, from a bat soup a big No!

[eddie13]

If I was a betting man, I'd bet big on the bat thing.

But it cant be from soup. When you make a soup you boil it. When you heat something at at least 60 degrees Celsius you kill all bacteria or viruses. So it is impossible. From a bat sandwich yes, from a bat soup a big No!

More likely from handling the bats to prepare them for market/soup, than from the eating of well boiled soup, I agree..  

It looks like the way the sell them in the market is to skewer em down the mouth with a sick, then flame their hair off with a torch before sale, which I don't think would thoroughly cook them..
It seems they also remove the wings to be sold separately.. (uncooked?)

Edit: https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o <Not China
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no

I believe this is the "official narrative".. Or was the first official suspect..

[TECSHARE]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/canadian-scientist-center-chinese-bio-espionage-probe-found-dead-africa

[btcbeliever]

https://www.newswars.com/bioweapons-expert-delivers-urgent-message-to-trump-on-coronavirus-outbreak/

[gabmen]

Well it could also be from negligence of the people where it started. I mean, yeah let's face it, the chinese government isn't telling us everything. But consuming bats or snakes or whatever without proper hygiene and preparation would certainly put anyone at risk of getting a disease. I've seen  videos taken from the market where it all started and this could've started way before.

[Last of the V8s]

It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that.

I can verify that they do sell bats there.. Right alongside snakes..
https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no
snipped

(referencing the Huanan wet market in Wuhan)

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter - is it Vietnamese?
The second has some footage from China yay, and some of it may be Wuhan.
Having said all that, sure you could buy bat and snake at Huanan before it was closed down.

[af_newbie]

It does say that bats weren't sold there - but obviously no-one can verify that.

I can verify that they do sell bats there.. Right alongside snakes..
https://youtu.be/9EPz8PSue2o
https://youtu.be/8tAiDEel_no
snipped

(referencing the Huanan wet market in Wuhan)

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter - is it Vietnamese?
The second has some footage from China yay, and some of it may be Wuhan.
Having said all that, sure you could buy bat and snake at Huanan before it was closed down.

It is Langowan Market, Indonesia.

[Cnut237]

From a bat sandwich yes

Frankly, if I was eating a bat sandwich I'd be more surprised if I didn't contract some hideous disease.

[eddie13]

That first video is 100% not filmed in China at all, look at the sign 20 seconds in, look at what they're wearing, listen to the chatter

Oh well it got me..
I am not familiar enough with the various asian social characteristics you mention to recognize such things.. 

You know of any videos that are for sure the Wuhan market in question?

[Last of the V8s]

eh hard to find something with bats or pangolins, but they would certainly have been for sale there. This is the market fwiw
https://twitter.com/WBYeats1865/status/1212087473435639814?s=20
https://twitter.com/WBYeats1865/status/1211929557357359104?s=20

*nsfl* warning some of his most recent tweets are bloody - to do with a beaten HK protester.

https://twitter.com/Dystopia992/status/1219777687138422785?s=20
dunno if the 'leaked' stills here are, as claimed, from the relevant market, but they are certainly indicative of what goes on

[tvbcof]

(This being a Bitcoin related forum...)

If I fired up a CPU miner on my laptop and mined the next 5 blocks, it is possible?  Sure it is.  It is highly unlikely though.  Anyone who understands almost anything about the technology will seek alternate explanations to the 'got lucky' one.  Some individuals will hold fast to the 'just luck' explanation depending on their disposition, and a ton of them will see the ramifications and promote the 'just luck' explanation as a self-preservation mechanism.

In fact, Darwinian evolution and Bitcoin-style blockchain mining are quite similar:  A vast amount of random trials with an extraordinarily tiny chance that any one test will 'work'.  Success is all about 'hash rate'.  Intensive farming practices can and often do up the hash rate quite a bit.  Like getting a rack full of ASIC miner to replace your raspberry pi.

It may not be very clear to people, but viruses can only 'roll the dice' in living tissue because they rely on living cells to assemble new viruses.  On a factory farm they have a subject lifetime to cross-infect can replicate.  In a meat market with wild game additional viruses have between zero and one 'roll of the dice' to try to make something happen.


Think of things like this:

  - nature: blockchain mining on a raseberry pi with basically guessing the sha256 algorithm.

  - vintage [pre-1950s] lab (often a hostpital, school, military barracks) (pre-1960's):  blockchain mining with a GPU and an optimized algorithm.

  - modern facility:  As many ASIC as needed, but not many needed because sha256 has been broken.

[eddie13]

As of right now we are at..

22 Natural -VS- 34 Man made

[TECSHARE]

(This being a Bitcoin related forum...)

If I fired up a CPU miner on my laptop and mined the next 5 blocks, it is possible?  Sure it is.  It is highly unlikely though.  Anyone who understands almost anything about the technology will seek alternate explanations to the 'got lucky' one.  Some individuals will hold fast to the 'just luck' explanation depending on their disposition, and a ton of them will see the ramifications and promote the 'just luck' explanation as a self-preservation mechanism.

In fact, Darwinian evolution and Bitcoin-style blockchain mining are quite similar:  A vast amount of random trials with an extraordinarily tiny chance that any one test will 'work'.  Success is all about 'hash rate'.  Intensive farming practices can and often do up the hash rate quite a bit.  Like getting a rack full of ASIC miner to replace your raspberry pi.

It may not be very clear to people, but viruses can only 'roll the dice' in living tissue because they rely on living cells to assemble new viruses.  On a factory farm they have a subject lifetime to cross-infect can replicate.  In a meat market with wild game additional viruses have between zero and one 'roll of the dice' to try to make something happen.


Think of things like this:

  - nature: blockchain mining on a raseberry pi with basically guessing the sha256 algorithm.

  - vintage [pre-1950s] lab (often a hostpital, school, military barracks) (pre-1960's):  blockchain mining with a GPU and an optimized algorithm.

  - modern facility:  As many ASIC as needed, but not many needed because sha256 has been broken.

Comparing new CRISPR genetic modification technology to previous iterations is like comparing a nuke to a party popper. We are technically at the point that it is feasible for an individual to start a world wide pandemic in their kitchen.

[PrimeNumber7]

There seems to be enough early cases near the Wuhan "wet" market that the source to humans is likely to be from eating animals at the 'wet' market.

I am no bat expert, but I would be surprised if a bat, or a handful of bats was able to infect enough people so that it would spread as widely as it has spread to date. I think it would be more likely that a bat infected with the coronavirus infects another animal of another species that lives in a herd, and that animal infects other similar animals in the same herd. I believe animals in that herd infected humans who bought the animals at the 'wet' market.

I have no idea if the bat(s) got infected 'naturally' or via a bioweapon. There is a biolab about 20 miles from the 'wet' market, and it is possible the virus somehow 'leaked' out of the biolab. If this was the case, a bat could have bitten an animal that escaped from the lab, or a person who was infected and outside of the lab, and subsequently infected another animal referenced above. The virus leaking from the Wuhan biolab might explain why the Chinese government were quiet about the virus for so long.

I don't think this was something the Chinese government intentionally released on its own people. The Chinese government has been able to control its people via the social credit system. It has also been written that the virus, although unlikely, has the potential to topple the Chinese government.

The only other governments that I could imagine releasing a bioweapon on citizens are all generally allied with China, so I don't believe the virus was release by a foreign (to China) government.

The coronavirus is a very serious problem. I believe the Chinese people are very unhappy with how the Chinese government has handled the situation. Those outside of mainland China are not at especially high risk currently.

[tvbcof]

...
I don't think this was something the Chinese government intentionally released on its own people. The Chinese government has been able to control its people via the social credit system. It has also been written that the virus, although unlikely, has the potential to topple the Chinese government.
...

'Controlling' a people is, generally speaking, not a terribly difficult thing to do.  Just make some modicum of effort toward maintaining and improving their quality of life usually does the trick.

The tricky part is to control people while de-populating them.  Because people have a natural built-in survival mechanism they don't always cooperate at culling time even if it is well and truly the case that a good culling will 'improve the quality of life' for more that just the ruling class once the deed is done.  Mao seems to have pulled it off in the 'great leap forward' which culled tens of millions.

It always seemed to me that the best way forward for Chinese people in mainland China would be to ask the Taiwanese to take charge of an integration and try to have the end-result be something sort of like modern day Taiwan.  Not that that country doesn't have some problems and phony political puppetry and so on, but generally speaking it seems like the actual peeps enjoy an enviable level of freedom and a reasonable quality of life.  The one positive thing which could come out of this SARS++ thing, no matter how it happened, would be if it takes down the CCP.  If so, it would be in the nick of time because I don't see it ever being possible under the surveillance technocracy which is fast rolling over the mainland.

[PrimeNumber7]

...
I don't think this was something the Chinese government intentionally released on its own people. The Chinese government has been able to control its people via the social credit system. It has also been written that the virus, although unlikely, has the potential to topple the Chinese government.
...

'Controlling' a people is, generally speaking, not a terribly difficult thing to do.  Just make some modicum of effort toward maintaining and improving their quality of life usually does the trick.

The tricky part is to control people while de-populating them.  Because people have a natural built-in survival mechanism they don't always cooperate at culling time even if it is well and truly the case that a good culling will 'improve the quality of life' for more that just the ruling class once the deed is done.  Mao seems to have pulled it off in the 'great leap forward' which culled tens of millions.

I am not aware of a reason why the Chinese government would want to de-populate their people. Why would they want to reduce their population? I am not aware of China being short on any resources.

[tvbcof]

...
I don't think this was something the Chinese government intentionally released on its own people. The Chinese government has been able to control its people via the social credit system. It has also been written that the virus, although unlikely, has the potential to topple the Chinese government.
...

'Controlling' a people is, generally speaking, not a terribly difficult thing to do.  Just make some modicum of effort toward maintaining and improving their quality of life usually does the trick.

The tricky part is to control people while de-populating them.  Because people have a natural built-in survival mechanism they don't always cooperate at culling time even if it is well and truly the case that a good culling will 'improve the quality of life' for more that just the ruling class once the deed is done.  Mao seems to have pulled it off in the 'great leap forward' which culled tens of millions.

I am not aware of a reason why the Chinese government would want to de-populate their people. Why would they want to reduce their population? I am not aware of China being short on any resources.

China's one-child policy is/was prima facie evidence that the policy makers consider(ed) population size to be an important enough aspect to enact and enforce a pretty socially difficult and costly program.

Modulating family size is not an uncommon undertaking by political leaderships.  Through history (including fairly recent history in places like Mongolia) it tended to go the other way.  That is to say, increased family sizes were rewarded.  When a leadership sees a use and need for bullet-stoppers that is usually how it goes.

As I personally look at things, it looks to me as though China is not particularly blessed with an abundance of arable land relative to their population.  If anyone has a genuine problem with problematic population density numbers it probably really is the Chinese.

Everyone knows about the hypothetical demographic issues which will eventually result from the one-child policy (to few workers to care for the aged.)  It wasn't long before this issue was put forward as a possible reason why China might have created a self-inflicted wound in the form of the SARS++ event.  For my part I don't have much doubt that the CPP could and would employ such a 'solution', but it remains just another hypothesis worth exploring.

Even if the CPP didn't have the 'strength' to do the deed, they probably don't have the final word in terms of how China is run any more than Trump does for the U.S..  If told by those who operate the monetary system to jump, both Xi and Trump will say 'how high?'  They wouldn't be where they are otherwise.

[Mometaskers]

There is only really 2 possible place of origin within Wuhan, either the wet market or the biolab. If it's the former, then it doesn't matter which animal it originated from and how many species it jumped before getting to humans, it's the result of the unsanitary conditions, even just the mere fact of having those animals together in the first place. IIRC that's how SARS started, they were raising chickens on coops above pig pens, increasing the chance a virus would jump specie.

If it's the latter though, this is where the conspiracy theories start.

[TECSHARE]

...
I don't think this was something the Chinese government intentionally released on its own people. The Chinese government has been able to control its people via the social credit system. It has also been written that the virus, although unlikely, has the potential to topple the Chinese government.
...

'Controlling' a people is, generally speaking, not a terribly difficult thing to do.  Just make some modicum of effort toward maintaining and improving their quality of life usually does the trick.

The tricky part is to control people while de-populating them.  Because people have a natural built-in survival mechanism they don't always cooperate at culling time even if it is well and truly the case that a good culling will 'improve the quality of life' for more that just the ruling class once the deed is done.  Mao seems to have pulled it off in the 'great leap forward' which culled tens of millions.

I am not aware of a reason why the Chinese government would want to de-populate their people. Why would they want to reduce their population? I am not aware of China being short on any resources.

You have to realize there is the Chinese government (technically), then the CCP, which controls it. Essentially you should stop looking at it like a government, and more like a country run by gangsters and cartels. A country run by gangsters and cartels depends on revenue to grease the wheels to maintain order. The Chinese economy is failing, that makes its one and a half billion residents dangerous to the CCP. In that light, depopulation seems quite a bit more realistic. After all, it is not like China was already the home to the largest mass depopulation of its own people on Earth or anything... oh wait...

[tvbcof]

...

You have to realize there is the Chinese government (technically), then the CCP, which controls it. Essentially you should stop looking at it like a government, and more like a country run by gangsters and cartels. A country run by gangsters and cartels depends on revenue to grease the wheels to maintain order. The Chinese economy is failing, that makes its one and a half billion residents dangerous to the CCP. In that light, depopulation seems quite a bit more realistic. After all, it is not like China was already the home to the largest mass depopulation of its own people on Earth or anything... oh wait...

I think it fair to say that the leadership of most countries of significant size, and especially most of those who have access to nuclear and similar weapons,  fear their domestic population more than external enemies.  That is the one force which could actually topple the leadership from power.  Being out maneuvered by an adversary will cost money but won't get a guy hung from a meat hook.

I wouldn't say that China differs significantly from any other comparable country in this way, but I don't have reason to doubt the general idea behind this:

...
Across China, domestic security accounted for 6.1% of government spending in 2017, the Ministry of Finance said. That translates into 1.24 trillion yuan ($196 billion) and compares with 1.02 trillion yuan in central-government funding for the military.

I believe that the U.S. probably spends a great deal more than China on internal security, but we spend such a vast amount externally in maintaining our empire that we are one of the few who actually does spend more on classic military than on internal security.
I'll bet that the U.S..

As for "a country run by gangsters and cartels", I could not come up with a better description of the oligarchy which runs the United States at this time.  Probably China too, but I don't know enough about the politics of that country to say one way or another.

[TECSHARE]

...

You have to realize there is the Chinese government (technically), then the CCP, which controls it. Essentially you should stop looking at it like a government, and more like a country run by gangsters and cartels. A country run by gangsters and cartels depends on revenue to grease the wheels to maintain order. The Chinese economy is failing, that makes its one and a half billion residents dangerous to the CCP. In that light, depopulation seems quite a bit more realistic. After all, it is not like China was already the home to the largest mass depopulation of its own people on Earth or anything... oh wait...

I think it fair to say that the leadership of most countries of significant size, and especially most of those who have access to nuclear and similar weapons,  fear their domestic population more than external enemies.  That is the one force which could actually topple the leadership from power.  Being out maneuvered by an adversary will cost money but won't get a guy hung from a meat hook.

I wouldn't say that China differs significantly from any other comparable country in this way, but I don't have reason to doubt the general idea behind this:

...
Across China, domestic security accounted for 6.1% of government spending in 2017, the Ministry of Finance said. That translates into 1.24 trillion yuan ($196 billion) and compares with 1.02 trillion yuan in central-government funding for the military.

I believe that the U.S. probably spends a great deal more than China on internal security, but we spend such a vast amount externally in maintaining our empire that we are one of the few who actually does spend more on classic military than on internal security.
I'll bet that the U.S..

As for "a country run by gangsters and cartels", I could not come up with a better description of the oligarchy which runs the United States at this time.  Probably China too, but I don't know enough about the politics of that country to say one way or another.

When you are done with your defensive false equivalence, maybe we can get back to the topic?

[tvbcof]

...

When you are done with your defensive false equivalence, maybe we can get back to the topic?

'Defensive'?  How so?  Perhaps just a wee bit of projection going on there, amigo?

Neither of us would probably shed many tears if this thing, no matter how it went down, took out the CCP, but it would be a severe disappointment to me if the peeps jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.  I want the truth no matter what it is.

[TECSHARE]

...

When you are done with your defensive false equivalence, maybe we can get back to the topic?

'Defensive'?  How so?  Perhaps just a wee bit of projection going on there, amigo?

Neither of us would probably shed many tears if this thing, no matter how it went down, took out the CCP, but it would be a severe disappointment to me if the peeps jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.  I want the truth no matter what it is.

Well we are here talking about the corona virus and the CCP and you go on a little rant about how the US is the same. No projection, just you shoehorning in some false equivalence.

[tvbcof]

...

When you are done with your defensive false equivalence, maybe we can get back to the topic?

'Defensive'?  How so?  Perhaps just a wee bit of projection going on there, amigo?

Neither of us would probably shed many tears if this thing, no matter how it went down, took out the CCP, but it would be a severe disappointment to me if the peeps jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.  I want the truth no matter what it is.

Well we are here talking about the corona virus and the CCP and you go on a little rant about how the US is the same. No projection, just you shoehorning in some false equivalence.

Correction: _You_ were talking about the CCP.  A lot.  Hmmm...

As a matter of fact, if the virus did jump to humans first in the 'wet market' I would take it as a strong indication that the WHO/CCP and their BL4 lab may have had nothing to do with it.  Since I'm quite sure it came from a lab, being 'detonated' in the wet market guarantees that it was a deliberate act which any BL4 lab could have originated...and there are a lot of BL4 labs around and about.  In other words, that it was a classic 'false flag.'

[TECSHARE]

Correction: _You_ were talking about the CCP.  A lot.  Hmmm...

As a matter of fact, if the virus did jump to humans first in the 'wet market' I would take it as a strong indication that the WHO/CCP and their BL4 lab may have had nothing to do with it.  Since I'm quite sure it came from a lab, being 'detonated' in the wet market guarantees that it was a deliberate act which any BL4 lab could have originated...and there are a lot of BL4 labs around and about.  In other words, that it was a classic 'false flag.'

Whatever you say...

CCP.

Not like the CCP has anything to do with China, the origin nation of the outbreak right? I think we agree that this could be described as a "false flag". The question is who benefits, and who perpetrated it.

[Cnut237]

Whilst I certainly believe that China are experimenting with bio-agents in secret labs, there are some things that make me lean towards the "natural" explanation of unsanitary conditions and illegal under-the-counter infected animals.

One point in particular is the whistleblower Li Wenliang who was famously (or indeed infamously) strong-armed into silence for trying to spread the original warning. This was at the end of December. But it wasn't until 23 Jan, three and a half weeks later that China began the shutdown of Wuhan/Hubei. If it really was a government-engineered super virus, they'd not be waiting nearly a month after the initial warnings. Instead, it's likely the whistleblower would have been immediately and unequivocally silenced, in the proper Chinese style where you don't see them again for months/years afterwards if indeed ever again, and the lockdown would have been a damned sight quicker. The thing with a central economy like China is that they can do big things quickly. They could have made the shutdown instant if they'd wanted to.

As for it being a deliberate leak in order to control the population, suppress unrest, etc, most of the stuff below, I don't buy that at all - China does this anyway; they've never needed an excuse before.

This outbreak checks a lot of boxes the CCP likes:

-Justifies total lock down
-Effectively ends all legal dissent
-Perfect cover for rounding up dissidents
-Depopulation of an increasingly rebellious population they are losing control of & dependents
-Provides a good scapegoat for the failing economy
-Provides good fodder for spreading stories it was a Western attack to incite hatred & nationalism
-Provides a "controlled" environment to practice their bio-warfare defensive and offensive abilities

I am sure there is more, but this is what immediately comes to mind. The CCP sees life as being cheap, I wouldn't put this past them. When suspicious events happen, the first question should always be... cui bono?

[PrimeNumber7]

China's one-child policy is/was prima facie evidence that the policy makers consider(ed) population size to be an important enough aspect to enact and enforce a pretty socially difficult and costly program.

Modulating family size is not an uncommon undertaking by political leaderships.  Through history (including fairly recent history in places like Mongolia) it tended to go the other way.  That is to say, increased family sizes were rewarded.  When a leadership sees a use and need for bullet-stoppers that is usually how it goes.

As I personally look at things, it looks to me as though China is not particularly blessed with an abundance of arable land relative to their population.  If anyone has a genuine problem with problematic population density numbers it probably really is the Chinese.

Everyone knows about the hypothetical demographic issues which will eventually result from the one-child policy (to few workers to care for the aged.)  It wasn't long before this issue was put forward as a possible reason why China might have created a self-inflicted wound in the form of the SARS++ event.  For my part I don't have much doubt that the CPP could and would employ such a 'solution', but it remains just another hypothesis worth exploring.

Even if the CPP didn't have the 'strength' to do the deed, they probably don't have the final word in terms of how China is run any more than Trump does for the U.S..  If told by those who operate the monetary system to jump, both Xi and Trump will say 'how high?'  They wouldn't be where they are otherwise.

I agree the one child per family policy was a problem, and will cause depopulation over the next generation, however this policy was retired in 2016.

East China, especially the North East that borders the Pacific/China Sea, is very densely populated, however West China is not. There is also the potential for technology that the Chinese Government will steal from the West that can take care of its elderly population more efficiently. The Coronavirus has the potential to kill both the elderly and working aged men, and the very young.

You have to realize there is the Chinese government (technically), then the CCP, which controls it. Essentially you should stop looking at it like a government, and more like a country run by gangsters and cartels. A country run by gangsters and cartels depends on revenue to grease the wheels to maintain order. The Chinese economy is failing, that makes its one and a half billion residents dangerous to the CCP. In that light, depopulation seems quite a bit more realistic. After all, it is not like China was already the home to the largest mass depopulation of its own people on Earth or anything... oh wait...

The Chinese economy is growing, although at a slower rate than it has in the past. I would generally view the Chinese government and the CCP to be one and the same.

I am hesitant to believe this is intentional depopulation by the Chinese government because I can see scenarios in which the Chinese government is either overthrown, or its people find ways to get information to flow more freely. The Chinese government has been propping up its economy for years, if not decades by doing things such as building cities that are vacant.

[tvbcof]

...
The Chinese government has been propping up its economy for years, if not decades by doing things such as building cities that are vacant.

Some say that these cities have been built for certain of the chosen elite when the U.S. is imploded.  Interesting theory.  Time will tell.  Of course if it works out that way it doesn't mean it was planned or anything like that.

http://www.visiontimes.com/2017/12/04/arabella-kushner-shook-the-chinese-community-with-her-fluent-mandarin.html

[TECSHARE]

You have to realize there is the Chinese government (technically), then the CCP, which controls it. Essentially you should stop looking at it like a government, and more like a country run by gangsters and cartels. A country run by gangsters and cartels depends on revenue to grease the wheels to maintain order. The Chinese economy is failing, that makes its one and a half billion residents dangerous to the CCP. In that light, depopulation seems quite a bit more realistic. After all, it is not like China was already the home to the largest mass depopulation of its own people on Earth or anything... oh wait...

The Chinese economy is growing, although at a slower rate than it has in the past. I would generally view the Chinese government and the CCP to be one and the same.

I am hesitant to believe this is intentional depopulation by the Chinese government because I can see scenarios in which the Chinese government is either overthrown, or its people find ways to get information to flow more freely. The Chinese government has been propping up its economy for years, if not decades by doing things such as building cities that are vacant.

Effectively the CCP and the Chinese government are the same. Technically they are not. It is hard to understand here living in the West, but imagine the Democrat and Republican party merged into one, and ruled completely by gangster oligarchs. They wouldn't technically be the government, but would in all intents and purposes control it. The Chinese government and the CCP are divisible, and the Chinese people would be much better off without the CCP.

The Chinese economy has not been growing for some time now, it is contracting. The last few years of "growth" are based on fraud and money printing. The USA experienced a correction when similar issues were (at least partially) addressed here in 2008-2009 in the housing market crisis and the "credit crunch". China never had this correction and continued to ride that wave of fraud. The amount of hidden debt they have dwarfs anything the US has.

The "ghost cities" you are referring to are not propping up anything, but are simply a mad dash to exploit their money printing and debt exploitation as much as possible to create real assets before the system implodes. It is a lot like some one who is about to go bankrupt maxing out all of their credit cards before they file so they can get the maximum benefit out of it. They are a symptom of failure, not a way to keep the system running.

I am suggesting that the threat of being overthrown is in fact motivation for depopulation. These people know once they lose their iron grip on their gangster system, they are likely to get the Qaddafi treatment. The CCP has already demonstrated they are willing to murder their own people to keep control. The people are finding ways to break free, and the events in Hong Kong as well as resistance in Taiwan and other places have them terrified of losing control. Cornered animals get vicious.

[Balthazar]

but imagine the Democrat and Republican party merged into one, and ruled completely by gangster oligarchs

Just imagine that roses are red and violets are blue. 

[Last of the V8s]

.....
Corona memes also accepted..

[Artemis3]

Natural source, but not from eating. The handling of the animals, or simply having them close to the human, made possible for the virus to jump species. Of course you could say they kept those animals close so they could eat them...

Sometimes it just jumps to an intermediary animal first, such things are possible in farms or where many animals are kept or maybe processed (slaughtered, etc).

Its too weak for a bioweapon...

[eddie13]

I like the Corona Chan memes but I am very hesitant to share them because I see them as an almost evil rooting for the china virus to spread, just for armchair warriors to sit behind their keyboards and see a big "happening", which I do not want to happen..

I suppose I could post a couple though..
Disclaimer: I consider this quite dark humor that I do not necessarily agree with..

Here we have exhibit A which I like to call "Corona Chan stalking North America"


Here we have exhibit B which I like to call "Corona Chan Raping the world" (Too dark?)


Here we have exhibit C which I like to call "Corona Chan Immigration"


Here we have exhibit D which I like to call "Corona Chan Snacking with Ebola Chan"


And finally for the night..
Here we have exhibit E which I like to call "China Pepe cooking Batman Pepe Soup"

[Bodykeepers]

Base on this SOURCE we can see that this is the reason why corona virus spreading around country of china because eating exotic foods or uncooked meat of different exotic animals can harm your health.

[tvbcof]

I've seen a certian amount of footage of (supposedly) Chinese people being dragged away screaming while seeming to be fighting for their lives.  I didn't get that 'fake sense' very strongly on most of these vids (unlike most of the 'beheading' and 'school shooting' vids.)  I also noted that the people seemed to be fighting pretty strongly.  Not what I would expect from someone who is nearly dead from acute respiratory infections.

I gotta wonder if the main problem that some of these people might have is a low 'social credit score' more than a biological infection.  That is the basic concern of those of us who are leery of invasive tracking and totalitarian states, but I didn't think it would be happening so blatantly and so soon.  Perhaps TPTB over there decided to 'not let a good crisis go to waste'.

It also seems possible to me that if there were relatively large-scale epidemiological studies as part of a drug test and that development started to go sideways, the study could be canceled and people who were not in a control group could be rounded up and {something}'d to try to hide the damage.  In other words, simplify the task of 'controlling the narrative.'

If the Chinese were testing different kinds of drugs (esp, vaccines) I would not expect the subjects to have any say-so or any knowledge of what part they were playing.  That's a handy element of socialized medicine in a highly controlled and structured totalitarian society.  But records would be kept in someone's files and one could get the proverbial 'knock on the door' pretty much out of the blue.  Whatever the case, the victims and their families seemed to sense that something very bad was up.

[TECSHARE]

Natural source, but not from eating. The handling of the animals, or simply having them close to the human, made possible for the virus to jump species. Of course you could say they kept those animals close so they could eat them...

Sometimes it just jumps to an intermediary animal first, such things are possible in farms or where many animals are kept or maybe processed (slaughtered, etc).

Its too weak for a bioweapon...

That really depends on your goals. If your goal is to kill as many people as fast as possible, you would be right. However if your goal is to infect the maximum number of people, this virus checks a lot of the boxes one engineering a virus would seek.

-long incubation period up to 24 days
-long lasting outside the body and on surfaces
-lots of passive asymptomatic carriers
-viral so medication options are limited
-airborne
-legality is high enough to be serious but not so high it slows transmission by immediately killing carriers
-high infection rates

Regardless of where it came from, the CCP seems to be taking full advantage of the situation to acheive other goals.

[Tash]

Well who knows maybe freedom of speech is in the way
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3050086/coronavirus-hundreds-chinese-sign-petition-calling-freedom

[tvbcof]

From: https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/02/12/clear-evidence-it-is-not-a-bioweapon-so-whats-all-this-about-ace2-and-ncov-2019-covid-2019/

...It is likey that B-coronaviruses have been infecting humans for tens if not hundreds of thousands of millenia.

So what’s different in 2019? On Dec 1, a new national vaccine law went into effect. “China is to implement a state immunization program, and residents living within the territory of China are legally obligated to be vaccinated with immunization program vaccines, which are provided by the government free of charge. Local governments and parents or other guardians of children must ensure that children be vaccinated with the immunization program vaccines (art. 6).”

The first reported case of COVID19?

December 1, 2019.

Interesting.

[Salauddin1994]

The exact cause of the virus has not yet been found, though it is believed to have come from food. China often consumes a lot of poisonous foods, I think they came from those foods.

[Negotiation]

The exact cause of the virus has not yet been found, though it is believed to have come from food. China often consumes a lot of poisonous foods, I think they came from those foods.

One of the biggest terrorists in the present day is the Coronavirus  As you rightly stated  the source of the coronavirus is very difficult to understand  But I think it is usually spread by contact with wild animals  raw meat and food. At first  pneumonia is more severe than cold  cough It is best to keep yourself away from these viruses.

[Tash]

DNA and RNA Viruses (6 year old video)
https://youtu.be/Df_qAFF58Ec?t=22

[Balthazar]

The source of the Coronavirus is no mystery it was created and patented by CDC in 2003.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7220852B1/en

This disclosure provides methods and compositions useful in detecting the presence of a SARS-CoV nucleic acid in a sample and/or diagnosing a SARS-CoV infection in a subject. Also provided are methods and compositions useful in detecting the presence of a SARS-CoV antigen or antibody in a sample and/or diagnosing a SARS-CoV infection in a subject.

The current disclosure provides an isolated SARS-CoV genome, isolated SARS-CoV polypeptides, and isolated nucleic acid molecules encoding the same. In one embodiment, the isolated SARS-CoV genome has a sequence as shown in SEQ ID NO: 1 or an equivalent thereof.

Right from this moment, you're a proven liar and troll. Congratulations.

[Tash]

The source of the Coronavirus is no mystery it was created and patented by CDC in 2003.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7220852B1/en

This disclosure provides methods and compositions useful in detecting the presence of a SARS-CoV nucleic acid in a sample and/or diagnosing a SARS-CoV infection in a subject. Also provided are methods and compositions useful in detecting the presence of a SARS-CoV antigen or antibody in a sample and/or diagnosing a SARS-CoV infection in a subject.

The current disclosure provides an isolated SARS-CoV genome, isolated SARS-CoV polypeptides, and isolated nucleic acid molecules encoding the same. In one embodiment, the isolated SARS-CoV genome has a sequence as shown in SEQ ID NO: 1 or an equivalent thereof.

Right from this moment, you're a proven liar and troll. Congratulations.

And where exactly is the lie?  

FIELD OF THE DISCLOSURE

This invention relates to a newly isolated human coronavirus. More particularly, it relates to an isolated coronavirus genome, isolated coronavirus proteins, and isolated nucleic acid molecules encoding the same. The disclosure further relates to methods of detecting a severe acute respiratory syndrome-associated coronavirus and compositions comprising immunogenic coronavirus compounds

A coronavirus disease (COVID), is a disease caused by members of the coronavirus (CoV) group. It may refer to: MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2

BTW
SARS-CoV
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) was first recognized in China in November 2002. It caused a worldwide outbreak in 2002-2003 with 8,098 probable cases including 774 deaths.
Since 2004, there have not been any known cases of SARS-CoV infection reported anywhere in the world.

[merchantofzeny]

Then can't seem to make up their minds whether it came from bats or pangolins. At one point they even reported there's a bit of snake in it. This makes me suspicious that it really was a bioweapon. Can't remember if it was WSJ or WP that reported that there were researchers fired from Canada, supposedly from stealing materials. If that was true the virus was likely smuggled to the lab in Wuhan and then got released from there. Whether how is that question. Some people even joke someone trying to make an extra buck probably resold equipment from the lab.

[tvbcof]

Then can't seem to make up their minds whether it came from bats or pangolins. At one point they even reported there's a bit of snake in it. This makes me suspicious that it really was a bioweapon. Can't remember if it was WSJ or WP that reported that there were researchers fired from Canada, supposedly from stealing materials. If that was true the virus was likely smuggled to the lab in Wuhan and then got released from there. Whether how is that question. Some people even joke someone trying to make an extra buck probably resold equipment from the lab.

Like I mentioned on several threads, it seems that the cases started at exactly the day a forced vaccination campaign went into effect in China.

What if someone was able to slip a goodie into the manufacturing process of the vaccines?  When one thinks about how these things are made it actually seems quite possible to do.  In fact a lot of these vaccines have undetected viruses in them that are not discovered for years and well after they have been in fully use (think SV40 in polio or the pig viruses in the rotavirus vaccine.)

This would be a 'pretty cool' form of attack because you know that the 'adversary' would bend over backward to hide what happened as would every other institution who wants to protect the various vaccine programs around the world.

The arrests of the scientists working in Canada smuggling biological material out, and the mysterious death in Africa of the other associated scientist really do indicate that something quite interesting is probably going on.

[TECSHARE]

[eddie13]

Then can't seem to make up their minds whether it came from bats or pangolins. At one point they even reported there's a bit of snake in it. This makes me suspicious that it really was a bioweapon. Can't remember if it was WSJ or WP that reported that there were researchers fired from Canada, supposedly from stealing materials. If that was true the virus was likely smuggled to the lab in Wuhan and then got released from there. Whether how is that question. Some people even joke someone trying to make an extra buck probably resold equipment from the lab.

Like I mentioned on several threads, it seems that the cases started at exactly the day a forced vaccination campaign went into effect in China.

What if someone was able to slip a goodie into the manufacturing process of the vaccines?  When one thinks about how these things are made it actually seems quite possible to do.  In fact a lot of these vaccines have undetected viruses in them that are not discovered for years and well after they have been in fully use (think SV40 in polio or the pig viruses in the rotavirus vaccine.)

This would be a 'pretty cool' form of attack because you know that the 'adversary' would bend over backward to hide what happened as would every other institution who wants to protect the various vaccine programs around the world.

The arrests of the scientists working in Canada smuggling biological material out, and the mysterious death in Africa of the other associated scientist really do indicate that something quite interesting is probably going on.

This has got me thinking..

I have read some information about some vaccines make you MORE likely to die from getting infected by a similar illness..

What if they call everyone in to get vaccinated.. Based on their social credit score they get vaccine #1, #2, #3, #4, or #5 - based on social credit scores of A-E..
Then, they could release a virus that is only super effective against those who got vaccine #5 but would not kill the majority of the higher scorers that got vaccines 1-4..
Later they could release another virus that would be supereffective against those that got vaccine #3 or #4 if they wished....

They could setup specific targets of a population by giving them a certain vaccine, and then wipe them out with a virus they are weakened to by said vaccine, and kill most of those people while giving the rest only a slight cough..

They could just give everyone in Tibet vaccine #5 and then wipe them out with a virus that would only minimally effect most of everyone else that has never got vaccine #5..


Like your idea of getting people sick with a vaccine on purpose, they could use them to compromise the immune system of specific groups of people to a specific virus or whatever, and then later release that specific virus, and wipe em all right out good.. Like installing a target on their backs..

What do you think? Could it even be done (vaccinations) years in advance and then used at their will anytime thereafter?

Thinking as an evil genius here.. Not saying they did this..


In other news I bought enough penicillin to cure about 20 horses today.. Replaced my old ageing stock with fresh..
Not that it would help against the China virus much, but could sure help if medical care otherwise became unavailable, and is relatively/very cheap..

[TECSHARE]

This has got me thinking..

I have read some information about some vaccines make you MORE likely to die from getting infected by a similar illness..

What if they call everyone in to get vaccinated.. Based on their social credit score they get vaccine #1, #2, #3, #4, or #5 - based on social credit scores of A-E..
Then, they could release a virus that is only super effective against those who got vaccine #5 but would not kill the majority of the higher scorers that got vaccines 1-4..
Later they could release another virus that would be supereffective against those that got vaccine #3 or #4 if they wished....

They could setup specific targets of a population by giving them a certain vaccine, and then wipe them out with a virus they are weakened to by said vaccine, and kill most of those people while giving the rest only a slight cough..

They could just give everyone in Tibet vaccine #5 and then wipe them out with a virus that would only minimally effect most of everyone else that has never got vaccine #5..


Like your idea of getting people sick with a vaccine on purpose, they could use them to compromise the immune system of specific groups of people to a specific virus or whatever, and then later release that specific virus, and wipe em all right out good.. Like installing a target on their backs..

What do you think? Could it even be done (vaccinations) years in advance and then used at their will anytime thereafter?

Exactly why vaccinations should never be compulsory. This puts us a single step away from genocide if bad actors have control of the process.

[eddie13]

Exactly why vaccinations should never be compulsory. This puts us a single step away from genocide if bad actors have control of the process.

Even precisely TARGETED genocide.. (If this theory is plausible.. I did come up with it all by my own self just now, so possibly not..)
You could just say "Whites need vaccine #2, Asians need vaccine #3, and Hispanics need vaccine #1..
Then you could just release the virus #2 that you have compromised all the Whites to, and BAM targeted racial genocide..
Or you could just give everyone in for example Columbia vaccine #6, then wipe them out with corresponding virus #6 and then be like "Woah! What happened here?"..

What if you could make a virus that you know that everyone in the USA, or Russia, had vaccines that would compromise them to?
You could wipe USA out if you could make a virus that was super effective against those who got the common flu vaccine in USA..  

[TECSHARE]

Exactly why vaccinations should never be compulsory. This puts us a single step away from genocide if bad actors have control of the process.

Even precisely TARGETED genocide..
You could just say "Whites need vaccine #2, Asians need vaccine #3, and Hispanics need vaccine #1..
Then you could just release the virus #2 that you have compromised all the Whites to, and BAM targeted racial genocide..
Or you could just give everyone in for example Columbia vaccine #6, then wipe them out with corresponding virus #6 and then be like "Woah! What happened here?"..

This is the thing that the people frothing at the mouth to demonize "antivaxxers" like they are chanting for the death of Emmanuel Goldstein in the two minutes of hate never seem to understand. It is not about efficacy, it is about bodily autonomy. It is not like there was a precedent already set for horrible medical experimentation done on people without informed consent already for this exact reason... oh wait... right... Josef Mengele.

[bhabygrim]

II think it could be from eating some bats since they are known from eating anything that could be cooked.
But it could also be a man made virus that has been spread directly at the Wuhan China for some unknown reason.

[tvbcof]

Exactly why vaccinations should never be compulsory. This puts us a single step away from genocide if bad actors have control of the process.

Even precisely TARGETED genocide..
You could just say "Whites need vaccine #2, Asians need vaccine #3, and Hispanics need vaccine #1..
Then you could just release the virus #2 that you have compromised all the Whites to, and BAM targeted racial genocide..
Or you could just give everyone in for example Columbia vaccine #6, then wipe them out with corresponding virus #6 and then be like "Woah! What happened here?"..

This is the thing that the people frothing at the mouth to demonize "antivaxxers" like they are chanting for the death of Emmanuel Goldstein in the two minutes of hate never seem to understand. It is not about efficacy, it is about bodily autonomy. It is not like there was a precedent already set for horrible medical experimentation done on people without informed consent already for this exact reason... oh wait... right... Josef Mengele.

Ya, but WW-II put an end to all the people who would do medical experiments on others so there is not now, and never will in the future, be need to worry about such a thing.

Actually the United States pardoned many/most of the Nazi scientists and gave them jobs/consulting gigs at places like Plumb Island 'Animal' Disease Center.  As long as they brought all of the research with them no doubt.  That FACT alone should give cause for concern when the same entity wants you to shut your mouth and take whatever vaccinations they demand.

[eddie13]

Ya, but WW-II put an end to all the people who would do medical experiments on others so there is not now, and never will in the future, be need to worry about such a thing.

I lol'd..

[eddie13]

Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China's biowarfare program
The deadly animal-borne coronavirus spreading globally may have originated in a laboratory in the city of Wuhan linked to China’s covert biological weapons program, said an Israeli biological warfare analyst.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/

[tvbcof]

My preferred hypothesis is currently that this event is related to some stuff the Chinese were trying out with their mandatory vaccination program.  Something went wrong (as opposed to a deliberate goal to achieve a particular outcome.)  As to whether it was incompetence on the part of the public health officials in China, or whether there was some sort of sabotage, either is possible.

If the above is on the right track, I would expect every political entity around the world to do use all of the powers at their disposal to cover it up.  This because the vaccine program is super important to TPTB.  All of them!

I would expect a cover-up would first try to blame a naturally evolved 'virus'.  If that didn't fly, I would expect the story to shift to a 'bio-weapon'.  I would expect China to 'fess up' to it being their 'research' and 'our bad' whether that is the reality of the situation or not.  This is somewhat more palatable to them politically than a hit to the confidence of their public health system, and it is vastly more palatable to other partners around the world.

An even better strategy would be for the Chinese to 'mildly resist' it being the 'Wuhan BL4 lab' in the face of 'obvious' evidence to that effect.  99.9% of people will take their 'resistance' as a sure sign that they have something to hide and are thus 'guilty'.  One way or another, expect all efforts to be made to completely bury their mandatory vaccination program which, at least according to some, shifted legally on exactly the day that the illness first popped up.

[eddie13]

bump

[tippytoes]

Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China's biowarfare program
The deadly animal-borne coronavirus spreading globally may have originated in a laboratory in the city of Wuhan linked to China’s covert biological weapons program, said an Israeli biological warfare analyst.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-china-biowarfare-program-possible/

I voted for this option. Though we don't know the real truth surrounding this pandemic, I have the feeling that it is not about eating wild animals. But since Chinese are known to mask facts, I don't think we will ever know the real source of this virus.

[eddie13]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/coronavirus-chinese-official-suggests-u-s-army-blame-outbreak-n1157826

The Chinese are starting to play the blame game..

[tvbcof]

Fort Detrick being closed down in Aug 2019 is way to coincidental for me.  Looks to me like they had a release (probably accidental) and that's where the troubles started.  Especially since the 201 'simulation' which happened 6 weeks before the virus 'first' appeared in Wuhan was specifically about coronavirus.  An enterprising investigator should try to find the first references to exercise 201 and when planning for it started.

From a Fort Detrick escape I could easily see a conscious decision to frame the Chinese.  You know damn well the U.S. would never take the blame for something like this.  Especially under the Trump admin.  Planting it in China accomplishes several things:  sets up for a massive 'blame game' which has been being played to the max by slimeballs such as Pompeo.  It has also done fantastic damage to China's economy.  A 'politically useful tool' if ever there was one.

If it is true North America is the only place with all strains present then this is a good indication that North America is where it started.  They got an early strain to seed Wuhan, but not quite early enough.  That would provide a pretty good explanation about why the Trump admin has dictated that all 'science is to be passed through Mike Pence's operation to be cleared before it is released to the public.

If the U.S. has been covering up things since last fall and explaining away respiratory deaths as 'flu' or 'vaping', that would be a very good reason why the first test kits had a 'false positive' problem and why functional ones have been very slow in coming and so much testing has been limited to passing through the federal level (CDC.)

[Tash]

Fort Detrick being closed down in Aug 2019 is way to coincidental for me.  Looks to me like they had a release (probably accidental) and that's where the troubles started.  Especially since the 201 'simulation' which happened 6 weeks before the virus 'first' appeared in Wuhan was specifically about coronavirus.  An enterprising investigator should try to find the first references to exercise 201 and when planning for it started.

From a Fort Detrick escape I could easily see a conscious decision to frame the Chinese.  You know damn well the U.S. would never take the blame for something like this.  Especially under the Trump admin.  Planting it in China accomplishes several things:  sets up for a massive 'blame game' which has been being played to the max by slimeballs such as Pompeo.  It has also done fantastic damage to China's economy.  A 'politically useful tool' if ever there was one.

If it is true North America is the only place with all strains present then this is a good indication that North America is where it started.  They got an early strain to seed Wuhan, but not quite early enough.  That would provide a pretty good explanation about why the Trump admin has dictated that all 'science is to be passed through Mike Pence's operation to be cleared before it is released to the public.

If the U.S. has been covering up things since last fall and explaining away respiratory deaths as 'flu' or 'vaping', that would be a very good reason why the first test kits had a 'false positive' problem and why functional ones have been very slow in coming and so much testing has been limited to passing through the federal level (CDC.)

Fort Detrick most likely only the old one closed, as new once have opend recently, if this is correct:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226286.msg53981009#msg53981009

[tvbcof]

Fort Detrick being closed down in Aug 2019 is way to coincidental for me.  Looks to me like they had a release (probably accidental) and that's where the troubles started.  Especially since the 201 'simulation' which happened 6 weeks before the virus 'first' appeared in Wuhan was specifically about coronavirus.  An enterprising investigator should try to find the first references to exercise 201 and when planning for it started.
...

Fort Detrick most likely only the old one closed, as new once have opend recently, if this is correct:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226286.msg53981009#msg53981009

Oh, certainly they would not close the facilities (which are extensive and important as the epicenter of biological warfare research in the U.S.) on a permanent basis.  Just long enough to clean up the mess that apparently existed.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/11/24/cdc-inspection-findings-reveal-more-about-fort-detrick-research-suspension.html

I'm somewhat surprised to see the reporting on the affair that I have and surprised that everything hasn't been memory-holed.  The first story I read about this was in a local paper.  Kind of hard to keep things hushed up when half the town is told not to show up for work I guess.

[PrimeNumber7]

Fort Detrick being closed down in Aug 2019 is way to coincidental for me.  Looks to me like they had a release (probably accidental) and that's where the troubles started.  Especially since the 201 'simulation' which happened 6 weeks before the virus 'first' appeared in Wuhan was specifically about coronavirus.  An enterprising investigator should try to find the first references to exercise 201 and when planning for it started.

From a Fort Detrick escape I could easily see a conscious decision to frame the Chinese.  You know damn well the U.S. would never take the blame for something like this.  Especially under the Trump admin.  Planting it in China accomplishes several things:  sets up for a massive 'blame game' which has been being played to the max by slimeballs such as Pompeo.  It has also done fantastic damage to China's economy.  A 'politically useful tool' if ever there was one.

If it is true North America is the only place with all strains present then this is a good indication that North America is where it started.  They got an early strain to seed Wuhan, but not quite early enough.  That would provide a pretty good explanation about why the Trump admin has dictated that all 'science is to be passed through Mike Pence's operation to be cleared before it is released to the public.

If the U.S. has been covering up things since last fall and explaining away respiratory deaths as 'flu' or 'vaping', that would be a very good reason why the first test kits had a 'false positive' problem and why functional ones have been very slow in coming and so much testing has been limited to passing through the federal level (CDC.)

You left out details such as why there wasn’t anyone infected in the US for months after the outbreak started in China, and why the outbreak started months after the base you cited closed.

Your post sounds a lot like Chinese Communist Party propaganda to me.

[tvbcof]

Fort Detrick being closed down in Aug 2019 is way to coincidental for me.  Looks to me like they had a release (probably accidental) and that's where the troubles started.  Especially since the 201 'simulation' which happened 6 weeks before the virus 'first' appeared in Wuhan was specifically about coronavirus.  An enterprising investigator should try to find the first references to exercise 201 and when planning for it started.

From a Fort Detrick escape I could easily see a conscious decision to frame the Chinese.  You know damn well the U.S. would never take the blame for something like this.  Especially under the Trump admin.  Planting it in China accomplishes several things:  sets up for a massive 'blame game' which has been being played to the max by slimeballs such as Pompeo.  It has also done fantastic damage to China's economy.  A 'politically useful tool' if ever there was one.

If it is true North America is the only place with all strains present then this is a good indication that North America is where it started.  They got an early strain to seed Wuhan, but not quite early enough.  That would provide a pretty good explanation about why the Trump admin has dictated that all 'science is to be passed through Mike Pence's operation to be cleared before it is released to the public.

If the U.S. has been covering up things since last fall and explaining away respiratory deaths as 'flu' or 'vaping', that would be a very good reason why the first test kits had a 'false positive' problem and why functional ones have been very slow in coming and so much testing has been limited to passing through the federal level (CDC.)

You left out details such as why there wasn’t anyone infected in the US for months after the outbreak started in China, and why the outbreak started months after the base you cited closed.

No, you just missed it.  I'm saying there were plenty of people getting sick and some of them dieing, but it was hidden and blamed on other things.  Or I should say that I'm presenting that as a hypothesis.  I helped you out by highlighting it above.

Your post sounds a lot like Chinese Communist Party propaganda to me.

Of course it does to you simply because it doesn't parrot the absurd stories floated by the U.S. propagandists.

If the science backs up the Chinese side of the story better than the U.S. side, I'm going to prefer the Chinese side for a better factual representation of reality in this case.  It doesn't help that the U.S. is not providing any science at all and in fact is censoring scientists and making them run everything through Mike Pence's hands before anyone else can see the results of their work.

I've no love lost for the current government of China.  If this is a flat out full frontal biological attack by the U.S. aimed at sinking the CCP and causing a revolution in China, that is (in my opinion) at least a glass half full for the Chinese people.  With the social credit score and absurd levels of tracking and what-not it is probably now or never to get rid of the CCP and try to live like something other than caged animals.

[TECSHARE]

...Of course it does to you simply because it doesn't parrot the absurd stories floated by the U.S. propagandists?

If the science backs up the Chinese side of the story better than the U.S. side, I'm going to prefer the Chinese side for a better factual representation of reality in this case.  It doesn't help that the U.S. is not providing any science at all and in fact is censoring scientists and making them run everything through Mike Pence's hands before anyone else can see the results of their work.

I've no love lost for the current government of China.  If this is a flat out full frontal biological attack by the U.S. aimed at sinking the CCP and causing a revolution in China, that is (in my opinion) at least a glass half full for the Chinese people.  With the social credit score and absurd levels of tracking and what-not it is probably now or never to get rid of the CCP and try to live like something other than caged animals.

Do you honestly think this is helping or hurting the CCP? Lets go down a list of all the things it does in their favor...

-Excuse to round up dissidents for "quarantine" never to be seen again
-Excuse to lock everything down and take even more control
-Excuse to lock down the global supply chain and delay the world from becoming independent of China
-Effectively ends all legal dissent
-Depopulation of dependents and an increasingly rebellious population they are losing control of
-Provides a good scapegoat for the failing economy
-Provides good fodder for spreading stories it was a Western attack to incite hatred & nationalism
-Provides a "controlled" environment to practice their bio-warfare defensive and offensive abilities

The CCP was already sinking. This looks more like a MAAD economic/biological weapon to me than something designed to strip power from the CCP. Totalitarians thrive in disasters because it gives them an excuse to take more control, especially when they are already on their way out. Cornered animals get desperate, and gangster governments stop functioning when the money stops flowing, which was already well under way. This outbreak solves a lot of problems for them.

[eddie13]

If China is serious about blaming the US for this, I think they must want war..
A bio attack is not a joke and is not a light accusation to make..

[tvbcof]

...
I've no love lost for the current government of China.  If this is a flat out full frontal biological attack by the U.S. aimed at sinking the CCP and causing a revolution in China, that is (in my opinion) at least a glass half full for the Chinese people.  With the social credit score and absurd levels of tracking and what-not it is probably now or never to get rid of the CCP and try to live like something other than caged animals.

Do you honestly think this is helping or hurting the CCP? Lets go down a list of all the things it does in their favor...

-Excuse to round up dissidents for "quarantine" never to be seen again
-Excuse to lock everything down and take even more control
-Excuse to lock down the global supply chain and delay the world from becoming independent of China
-Effectively ends all legal dissent
-Depopulation of dependents and an increasingly rebellious population they are losing control of
-Provides a good scapegoat for the failing economy
-Provides good fodder for spreading stories it was a Western attack to incite hatred & nationalism
-Provides a "controlled" environment to practice their bio-warfare defensive and offensive abilities

The CCP was already sinking. This looks more like a MAAD economic/biological weapon to me than something designed to strip power from the CCP. Totalitarians thrive in disasters because it gives them an excuse to take more control, especially when they are already on their way out. Cornered animals get desperate, and gangster governments stop functioning when the money stops flowing, which was already well under way. This outbreak solves a lot of problems for them.

No, I don't 'honestly think' that.  There are a bunch of very different hypotheses which I consider roughly equally likely at this point.

The hypothesis I put forth a month or two ago still stands.  China is attacked and goaded under the influence/direction of a third smaller country.  The goading influences China to retaliate.  Things escalate and both countries severely weaken or destroy one another making a vacuum for third country to fill in.  I'd be looking hard at a the country who by 'good fortune' has a vaccine ready to go in three weeks (that was crowed about more than three weeks ago.)

I consider the United States to be in an extremely precarious position.  The effective leadership of the U.S. (many of them holding dual citizenship) actually wants the U.S. to fall so that a certain third country has a vacuum to fill in.  But it's a balancing game.  The wealth of the U.S. can and should be milked for as long as possible, but the country should be utterly cratered at the right time so they have no practical way of retaliating once the duplicity of third-country is to obvious to hide.

Anyway, that's why I got the hell out of Dodge.  Looks like none to soon either.  I did anticipate fireworks in 2020.  Lots and lots of predictive programing about it.

[AmoreJaz]

If China is serious about blaming the US for this, I think they must want war..
A bio attack is not a joke and is not a light accusation to make..

considering the one who gave the statement is a chinese official. we dont know their motives why sudden change of stance in this pandemic? they dont want to be blamed by their irresponsible handling of the situation? they were caught in the act by their Chinese whistleblowers, instead of assisting them at the beginning, they were treated as enemy..i hope Chinese govt will not do such action that will put them in total shame

[Shinpako09]

If China is serious about blaming the US for this, I think they must want war..
A bio attack is not a joke and is not a light accusation to make..

considering the one who gave the statement is a chinese official. we dont know their motives why sudden change of stance in this pandemic? they dont want to be blamed by their irresponsible handling of the situation? they were caught in the act by their Chinese whistleblowers, instead of assisting them at the beginning, they were treated as enemy..i hope Chinese govt will not do such action that will put them in total shame

For me, they came up with such theory because they don't want to be blame alone. They just don't want to admit their fault that's why they are now accusing US. I'm not referring to all but chinese mentality doesn't want being below and getting blame. They always point their mistakes or possible bad deeds on others. If only, they are very cautious and take action at the very moment when the whistle blower came out. The scenario shouldn't be like this, but no, their ego is very high because they don't want admitting mistakes and being shame.

[tvbcof]

If China is serious about blaming the US for this, I think they must want war..
A bio attack is not a joke and is not a light accusation to make..

considering the one who gave the statement is a chinese official. we dont know their motives why sudden change of stance in this pandemic? they dont want to be blamed by their irresponsible handling of the situation? they were caught in the act by their Chinese whistleblowers, instead of assisting them at the beginning, they were treated as enemy..i hope Chinese govt will not do such action that will put them in total shame

For me, they came up with such theory because they don't want to be blame alone. They just don't want to admit their fault that's why they are now accusing US. I'm not referring to all but chinese mentality doesn't want being below and getting blame. They always point their mistakes or possible bad deeds on others. If only, they are very cautious and take action at the very moment when the whistle blower came out. The scenario shouldn't be like this, but no, their ego is very high because they don't want admitting mistakes and being shame.

If the Chinese use proper science to make their point, the results will be reproducible.

If someone (e.g., the United States) makes a lot of attempts to discourage scientists from performing tests which could confirm or deny the Chinese allegations, or attempt to hide and obfuscate data, that it a strong indication that the aurgument put forward by the Chinese (among many others) has a lot of weight.

As I mentioned above, I detest the Chinese government and hope to see it fall (for the good of the Chinese population) but that does NOT translate into a non-thinking rejection of everything they say.  Nor does 'love of my country' translate into automatically believing everything the U.S. Government says...even if the 'U.S.' part of 'U.S. Government' was not a mis-nomer.  People who are so simplistic will probably have some challenges surviving what may come next.

[TECSHARE]

[Tash]

Considering this video is 10 years old, it's describing events damn close
https://youtu.be/rw4z-rSwNjY?t=881

[TECSHARE]

COVID-19 Is A Man-Made Virus: HIV-Discoverer Says "Could Only Have Been Created In A Lab""

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-man-made-virus-hiv-discoverer-says-could-only-have-been-created-lab

[Tash]

COVID-19 Is A Man-Made Virus: HIV-Discoverer Says "Could Only Have Been Created In A Lab""

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-man-made-virus-hiv-discoverer-says-could-only-have-been-created-lab

This Plandemic was in the making for a long time, this video is 10 years old.
https://youtu.be/rw4z-rSwNjY?t=881
The question is how many labs have been involved, and persons of great interrest ""Benassi's.
https://youtu.be/H8DRouhUIsQ?t=94

80-90% of people put on ventilator die (86%  in Wuhan), that is more akin to euthanasia and not proper medical treatment.
Sedate than wait till its over.

[Mad7Scientist]

Everyone is busy discussion where the virus came from, and if it was man made or intentionally released or not.

But the real cover up is that some countries are affected very badly, like Ecuador and China. And others aren't! Look at Nicaragua with only 1 reported death!

Places like the US and India appear to be doing lock down and social distancing as a cover for why they aren't badly affected. If India doesn't do anything and they aren't affected by the virus, the whole world will look at them and wonder what about them is different.

I would expect a cover-up would first try to blame a naturally evolved 'virus'.  If that didn't fly, I would expect the story to shift to a 'bio-weapon'.  I would expect China to 'fess up' to it being their 'research' and 'our bad' whether that is the reality of the situation or not.  This is somewhat more palatable to them politically than a hit to the confidence of their public health system, and it is vastly more palatable to other partners around the world.

An even better strategy would be for the Chinese to 'mildly resist' it being the 'Wuhan BL4 lab' in the face of 'obvious' evidence to that effect.  99.9% of people will take their 'resistance' as a sure sign that they have something to hide and are thus 'guilty'.  One way or another, expect all efforts to be made to completely bury their mandatory vaccination program which, at least according to some, shifted legally on exactly the day that the illness first popped up.

I think this is a very good prediction of how the cover up is and will continue to go on. They're even willing to take some blame to keep people away from the truth.

[mindrust]

Everyone is busy discussion where the virus came from, and if it was man made or intentionally released or not.

But the real cover up is that some countries are affected very badly, like Ecuador and China. And others aren't! Look at Nicaragua with only 1 reported death!

Places like the US and India appear to be doing lock down and social distancing as a cover for why they aren't badly affected. If India doesn't do anything and they aren't affected by the virus, the whole world will look at them and wonder what about them is different.

I believe most of them are sending fake reports. People die from corona but they say it was pneumonia or heart attack or similar you get the idea. My country does the same. It is a strategy to stop people from panicking.

If one thing I learned from Tyler Durden, it is that you do want to panic. Panic is a good thing. You don't wanna be a fucking cow while the plane is crashing.

[Adriane14]

This is my answer

Bioweapon - Leaked From Wuhan Lab Near Bats Market - Accident

I believe this is a Bioweapon from the human's greed and ago to conquer and win a war if war takes place.

It was from a Lab in Wuhan that leaked it outside accidentally by one of the scientists who is researching it

[TECSHARE]

"Tracing the origins of COVID-19"

https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/tracing-the-origins-of-covid-19-300766

"There is no credible scientific evidence that the furin polybasic cleavage site evolved naturally, although the methods for artificially inserting such cleavage sites are well-established."

[eddie13]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

[mindrust]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

[eddie13]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

By whom?
China? Jews? CIA?

[mindrust]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

By whom?
China? Jews? CIA?

Who knows? Could be all three or none. Probably at least one.

WEF, these fuckers are a part of it probably.

[tvbcof]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

By whom?
China? Jews? CIA?

These are all just tentacles of the entity who runs the currently operational debt-backed fiat monetary system (clearing mainly at BIS).  All are relatively major tentacles however, and tasked with a lot of the heavy lifting.

In order to come out running the next monetary system (which will probably be resource-backed), and maintaining ownership into the future, this scamdemic operation among other things has been undertaken.  We are still only at the leading edge of things.  Much more yet to come.  The magnitude of the scamdemic operation as an initial salvo speaks to the expected size of the war which is to follow.

[Mauser]

This an very interesting poll. Only 45% of the people here on the forum believe that the corona virus happened naturally. Honestly, the hole world is infected by the virus but we still don't know how it was created. It's been more than a year. I wish there were more scientist looking at this.

[bryant.coleman]

Here is what I think -

China was developing bioweapons using flu-virus at some of the military facilities near Wuhan. Unlike the Americans and the Russians, the Chinese don't have enough experience and expertise to safely handle bio-weapons. Initially there was a leak and possibly some of the people working on this project were infected. This was simply covered up (similar to the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak of 1979, which resulted in approx. 100 deaths in Russia). But the infection spread to the general population undetected and within a few weeks (incubation period), the general population in Wuhan started dying from the virus.

[tvbcof]

Here is what I think -

China was developing bioweapons using flu-virus at some of the military facilities near Wuhan. Unlike the Americans and the Russians, the Chinese don't have enough experience and expertise to safely handle bio-weapons. Initially there was a leak and possibly some of the people working on this project were infected. This was simply covered up (similar to the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak of 1979, which resulted in approx. 100 deaths in Russia). But the infection spread to the general population undetected and within a few weeks (incubation period), the general population in Wuhan started dying from the virus.

The BL4 lab in Wuhan was working specifically on coronavirus including 'gain-of-function' research with grants from Dr. Fausti's NIAID from about the time when such work was mandated to be shut down in CONUS:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/u-s-governments-3-7-million-grant-to-wuhan-lab-at-center-of-coronavirus-outbreak/

---

My 'world view' is that most of what animus does exist between 'nations' is mostly for show.  They have already been combined into a 'one world' organ at the governance level (corp/gov).  The 'accidental release' of coronavirus was fairly carefully scripted with cooperation between both parties. 

What China gets out of the thing is relatively obvious.  A few months of 'pain' up front and now they are back to 'normal' economically with even more police state powers than the significant amount they already had.

But why would 'the West' shoot themselves in the foot by playing along and going into permanent lockdown?  The reason why is 'the West' exists primarily as a vestigial namesake relic already.  It's now time to import the social control mechanisms that have been R&D'd and deployed already in China.  They are incompatible with 'Western' concepts of freedom.  Solution?  Implode the West and do a 'reset'.  It's called 'creative destruction' and it's nearly as old as civilization itself.

[eddie13]

This an very interesting poll. Only 45% of the people here on the forum believe that the corona virus happened naturally. Honestly, the hole world is infected by the virus but we still don't know how it was created. It's been more than a year. I wish there were more scientist looking at this.

Well this poll is quite old now..
I suspect many voters may want to change their votes now that we know more information in the year since it was created..

[mindrust]

https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1396769717805780994

Some of the stealth edits that Vox made to its article debunking "conspiracy theories" that Covid-19 originated in a lab leak between its original publication in March 2020 and now.

Fact checkers are backpedalling. It is only a matter of time before they start saying that it was them all along saying that the virus came from the lab in Wuhan and everybody else was telling otherwise.

Natural my ass.

Fakestream Media is on it too:

Questions over whether Covid-19 originated from lab fuels debate

From the youtube comments section:

Hey look another "conspiracy theory" turns out to be true.

[hertznetwork]

Obviously a bioweapon. I think it was released into China to leave them holding the bag. I'd say was probably mossad who released it working for the 5 eyes, probably paid for by Saudis. I'd say China worked out they had been attacked and sent it back with bells on before reporting it.

[jrrsparkles]

Coronavirus could have been created in Wuhan lab And it was escaped but I don't think it was unintentional.

It was intentionally leaked by China to create economic crash while China successfully eradicated the virus in no time while all other countries are still facing the struggles.

[eddie13]

I highly doubt China eradicated the virus..

[Natsuu]

Coronavirus could have been created in Wuhan lab And it was escaped but I don't think it was unintentional.

It was intentionally leaked by China to create economic crash while China successfully eradicated the virus in no time while all other countries are still facing the struggles.

Is it really intentional, when they are the first to be infected by the virus?

If it is intentional, it is better to spread it hiddenly in other country while having your own country a preventive measure to stop it from spreading to your country. <---- this sounds more logical.

Instead, it spread in their country so it is most probably unintentional, though China has a great way of coping with the incident, and stopped it from further damaging their country.

[hornetsnest]

Created in a laboratory and World military games event held in Wuhan provided the vectors..... you plebs

[Gyfts]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

By whom?
China? Jews? CIA?

Who knows? Could be all three or none. Probably at least one.

WEF, these fuckers are a part of it probably.

I doubt China intended on this thing leaking out.

Think about it -- what would the motive be? We all know, China would love nothing more than to kill every other country out there with a devastating virus causing economies to crash.

But, why would they cause the virus to leak out in their own country first? Plus, how would they know what the death rate was without wide spread? Seemed like a risky preposition.

[mindrust]

Just saw this lol.

Fauci Emails Reveal Damage Control Scramble After ZeroHedge Spotlights Man-Made COVID-19 Theory

In January, 2020, when the World Health Organization insisted that COVID-19 wasn't transmissible between humans, and Dr. Anthony Fauci said that the risk to the American public from the virus was "low," officials at the National Institutes of Health were scrambling to perform damage control after a controversial - and now withdrawn - study suggested that there were HIV-like 'insertions' included in SARS-CoV-2.

...


British professor Angus Dalgleish - best known for creating the world's first 'HIV vaccine', and Norwegian virologist Dr. Birger Sørensen - chair of pharmaceutical company, Immunor, who has published 31 peer-reviewed papers and holds several patents, wrote that while analyzing virus samples last year, the pair discovered "unique fingerprints" in the form of "six inserts" created through gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China.

They also conclude that "SARS-Coronavirus-2 has "no credible natural ancestor" and that it is "beyond reasonable doubt" that the virus was created via "laboratory manipulation."

...

Their lies are falling apart one by one. This crap didn't happen naturally. Everything happened since last year and happening now was all planned. The virus is not natural. It is a bioweapon just like the US general said.

Lt. General Thomas McInerney: Covid19 was a biological attack

Another point to the "conspiracy theorists".

[hornetsnest]

Supranational collaborators from more than one nation but loyal to no nation state but with a common purpose. Nation states are meaningless to them when they regard earth inc. as their legal property and its population as mere tenants   

[BADecker]

Supranational collaborators from more than one nation but loyal to no nation state but with a common purpose. Nation states are meaningless to them when they regard earth inc. as their legal property and its population as mere tenants   

And the funny thing about it is, they produce racism by trying to unite people and concepts and "things" that can't be united. Then they talk against racism, which only makes the racist wars more flagrant.

[todiefor17]

I think western countries are trying to fabricate theories against China as a form of blame.
I have another theory that the world's elites invented the coronavirus in the lab and unleashed it to cause the world economy to crash to buy back the world cheaper and faster. The person behind maybe some secret organization.
Right now we are seeing the Fed printing more money and so they will buy back the whole world easily.

[hornetsnest]

Supranational collaborators from more than one nation but loyal to no nation state but with a common purpose. Nation states are meaningless to them when they regard earth inc. as their legal property and its population as mere tenants   

And the funny thing about it is, they produce racism by trying to unite people and concepts and "things" that can't be united. Then they talk against racism, which only makes the racist wars more flagrant.

Ignore them,they are dust mites before the Almighty. Their forefathers won't save them from the pit. Genesis 4:22

[DireWolfM14]

It is a bioweapon just like the US general said.

Generals are paid to be paranoid.  It's their job.
Doctors are paid to heal, and they should stick to it.
Scientists should be paid to research facts, but ours are paid to arrive at politicized conclusions.
Politicians are obligated to minimize the impact, yet it appears they attempted to do the opposite.
The media was supposed to tell us the truth, but instead festered a vendetta.

These are only a few of the things that got us here.  If that was the plan, imagine trying to convince your coconspirators that it could happen.  No really, it could happen.

[Sayeds56]

Bump..

Anyone still think this wasn’t created in a lab?

Not only that.. it was all planned.

By whom?
China? Jews? CIA?

Who knows? Could be all three or none. Probably at least one.

WEF, these fuckers are a part of it probably.

I doubt China intended on this thing leaking out.

Think about it -- what would the motive be? We all know, China would love nothing more than to kill every other country out there with a devastating virus causing economies to crash.

But, why would they cause the virus to leak out in their own country first? Plus, how would they know what the death rate was without wide spread? Seemed like a risky preposition.

I totally agree with your thoughts that virus was not created intentionally by any country  or person to use it as bio weapon but there is  possibility it could have leaked as a result of accident in Lab. Even the most secure labs have sometimes accidents. Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

[mindrust]

I totally agree with your thoughts that virus was not created intentionally by any country  or person to use it as bio weapon but there is  possibility it could have leaked as a result of accident in Lab. Even the most secure labs have sometimes accidents. Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

For the same reason they demolished the twin towers in 9/11. If there is a human element, it is not a coincidence. The virus was created intentionally. Do you even follow the latest news? Dr. Fauci is about to be crucified by his own people. Not so long ago, the fact checkers were banning people who say that the virus came from the lab in Wuhan and now the fact checkers are editing their facts.

Now, if those fact checkers were wrong back in the day... why would anybody ever listen to them again?

As far as I know facts are immutable truths.

If you constantly edit your facts, how can you be a fact checker?

[Gyfts]

I totally agree with your thoughts that virus was not created intentionally by any country  or person to use it as bio weapon but there is  possibility it could have leaked as a result of accident in Lab. Even the most secure labs have sometimes accidents. Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

For the same reason they demolished the twin towers in 9/11. If there is a human element, it is not a coincidence. The virus was created intentionally. Do you even follow the latest news? Dr. Fauci is about to be crucified by his own people. Not so long ago, the fact checkers were banning people who say that the virus came from the lab in Wuhan and now the fact checkers are editing their facts.

Now, if those fact checkers were wrong back in the day... why would anybody ever listen to them again?

As far as I know facts are immutable truths.

If you constantly edit your facts, how can you be a fact checker?

The fact checkers have been sipping a bit to to much kool aid. They really like to regard themselves as the doing the lord's work, and they sacrifice their own credibility so they can push a narrative (most, anyways). But now even some of the "fact checkers" are coming around and asking more questions.

They should have been more forthcoming a year ago, but better let than never?

[mindrust]

I totally agree with your thoughts that virus was not created intentionally by any country  or person to use it as bio weapon but there is  possibility it could have leaked as a result of accident in Lab. Even the most secure labs have sometimes accidents. Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

For the same reason they demolished the twin towers in 9/11. If there is a human element, it is not a coincidence. The virus was created intentionally. Do you even follow the latest news? Dr. Fauci is about to be crucified by his own people. Not so long ago, the fact checkers were banning people who say that the virus came from the lab in Wuhan and now the fact checkers are editing their facts.

Now, if those fact checkers were wrong back in the day... why would anybody ever listen to them again?

As far as I know facts are immutable truths.

If you constantly edit your facts, how can you be a fact checker?

The fact checkers have been sipping a bit to to much kool aid. They really like to regard themselves as the doing the lord's work, and they sacrifice their own credibility so they can push a narrative (most, anyways). But now even some of the "fact checkers" are coming around and asking more questions.

They should have been more forthcoming a year ago, but better let than never?

If they want to confess their sins, they should start with not naming themselves "fact checkers" because it is very clear that whatever shit they state are not facts.

[tvbcof]

...
Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

Probably it is worth some people's time to step back and ask 'what is a country?'  Is it the people?  Or is it the resources?  Who installs the management of the country?

I posit that 'the country' is more the resource/'debt' in most instances, and especially the U.S..  After 100 years of private central banking an enormous debt has accumulated.

So then, what is a 'threat to the country'.  I posit that the biggest threat to most countries is their internal population.  In a country such as the U.S. with no external enemies who are powerful enough to threaten it, the most likely 'failure' (to service the debt) would be due to actions of the population.  Even if a nation's population is not a threat (thanks to, say, years of public education and fluoride) they still compete with the debtors for resources.

So then what is 'defense' of the country against 'threats'?  What is the DOD actually defending?  Why did the DOD funding to Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance to cook up, with help from China, the reason for a 'covid vaccine' exceed by an order of magnitude the pitiful few million contributed by Fausti/Collins'?

As for China, I think the CCP holds the all-time historic record for the most citizens killed.  60,000,000 or some such in the 'great leap forward' alone if memory serves.

I will again posit that there is no special difference between the U.S. and China.  They are both a couple of tools clattering about in the international banker's toolbox.

---

Another thing that people need realize is that an 'effective' weapon is frequently NOT an exquisitely lethal one.  Toe-popper mines for instance.  Basil-II had it figured out a millennia ago when he had the vanquished Bulgar's eyeballs plucked out leaving every 50'th guy with one eye to lead the rest home.  The Bulgar's never again posed a challenge or threat.

With the 2020 event, a dead person is not going to be willingly taking the gene therapy.  The weapon developed was tuned for the task at hand.  That doesn't mean it wasn't any good or that they 'failed' to do 'better'.  The jury is still out on that one because it's hard to predict the future, and I continue to believe that we are only at the start of this thing.

[eddie13]

Why would a “country” be ok with culling its old and weak?

[mindrust]

Why would a “country” be ok with culling its old and weak?

Social security don't like old and weak people because they whine too much and they always need help and free money. You are the golden boy as long as you can work and pay taxes but god forbid when you catch a disease that doesn't kill you instantly now you are the public enemy number one. Covid19 fixes this.

[eddie13]

Hmmm..

You think the obesity rates may have fallen some lately?

[hornetsnest]

...
Its not man made pandemic, not engineered to make massive killing world wide.  Why any country, CHINA or USA would take risk of killing its own people.

Probably it is worth some people's time to step back and ask 'what is a country?'  Is it the people?  Or is it the resources?  Who installs the management of the country?

I posit that 'the country' is more the resource/'debt' in most instances, and especially the U.S..  After 100 years of private central banking an enormous debt has accumulated.

So then, what is a 'threat to the country'.  I posit that the biggest threat to most countries is their internal population.  In a country such as the U.S. with no external enemies who are powerful enough to threaten it, the most likely 'failure' (to service the debt) would be due to actions of the population.  Even if a nation's population is not a threat (thanks to, say, years of public education and fluoride) they still compete with the debtors for resources.

So then what is 'defense' of the country against 'threats'?  What is the DOD actually defending?  Why did the DOD funding to Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance to cook up, with help from China, the reason for a 'covid vaccine' exceed by an order of magnitude the pitiful few million contributed by Fausti/Collins'?

As for China, I think the CCP holds the all-time historic record for the most citizens killed.  60,000,000 or some such in the 'great leap forward' alone if memory serves.

I will again posit that there is no special difference between the U.S. and China.  They are both a couple of tools clattering about in the international banker's toolbox.

---

Another thing that people need realize is that an 'effective' weapon is frequently NOT an exquisitely lethal one.  Toe-popper mines for instance.  Basil-II had it figured out a millennia ago when he had the vanquished Bulgar's eyeballs plucked out leaving every 50'th guy with one eye to lead the rest home.  The Bulgar's never again posed a challenge or threat.

With the 2020 event, a dead person is not going to be willingly taking the gene therapy.  The weapon developed was tuned for the task at hand.  That doesn't mean it wasn't any good or that they 'failed' to do 'better'.  The jury is still out on that one because it's hard to predict the future, and I continue to believe that we are only at the start of this thing.

Code:

-This is a Bio-engineered Weapon,
-It has a Goal Oriented Profile.
-It's purpose is to evolve into a supremely Lethal Version.
-It will double in Virulence and Intensity Every year.
-Lockdowns,Digital Passports,Overhauled social systems,New envoirnmental order,New medical order,New political order blah blah blah....all part of the equation

~some crazy conspiracy troll

[Tzupy]

I logged in, to check if and how I voted in this poll, and it was: Bioweapon - Leaked From Wuhan Lab Near Bats Market - Accident
Do I get a cookie?

[mindrust]

I logged in, to check if and how I voted in this poll, and it was: Bioweapon - Leaked From Wuhan Lab Near Bats Market - Accident
Do I get a cookie?

No. Because it wasn't an accident.

• Bioweapon - Attack By USA
• Bioweapon - Attack By Rogue CIA - Deepstate < < My choice btw but If I would vote B.Gates now.
• Bioweapon - Attack By Bill Gates - Agenda 21

These are the winners imo. Maybe it was Israel/Mossad but I don't think so.