Spineless cowards making posts

[Quickseller]

Where are you quoting from?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225789.msg53838262#msg53838262

Where are you quoting from?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225789.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225789.msg53838897#msg53838897

[Vod]

I am literally speechless for words as to how to respond to that.

I'll remind you that you don't need to actually speak when posting.   

(I'm only a grammar nazi when people misuse the word literally, which is a word meant to clear ambiguity)

[ChuckBuck]

As a manager of signature campaigns, you always set common criteria to protect other managers, which is really great. It's not like what's always on this forum, struggling, lowering prices, ... you're the one I admire the most 
Definitely, the posting person above is a member of that signature campaign, but instead acts transparently to ask questions or PM for Hhampuz, he sneaky  I bet he is afraid his account will be tagged with such questions  a silly fear  Thinking for a bit, this action stems from his fear of not being able to participate in any other campaign run by Hhampuz 

[hacker1001101001]

@Hhampuz don't pay attention to these types of threads man. You're handling things just fine.

I don't think this is a good advice overall and taking it would not be an ethical decision from an good campaign manager.

[Quickseller]

I am literally speechless for words as to how to respond to that.

I'll remind you that you don't need to actually speak when posting.  

(I'm only a grammar nazi when people misuse the word literally, which is a word meant to clear ambiguity)

I am just trying to say that what DireWolfM14 said is appalling and is really not a good look.

@Hhampuz don't pay attention to these types of threads man. You're handling things just fine.

I don't think this is a good advice overall and taking it would not be an ethical decision from an good campaign manager.

I think taking this advice has the potential to harm Hhampuz’s reputation. He can delay responding for some time to evaluate the facts if he needs to. 

[YOSHIE]

This is in response to a post I read earlier when I hopped online https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225789.0 and i'm getting pretty fed up with cowards lately. This is obviously not the 1st time a post like this has been made and probably will not be the last but grow a backbone people.

This is the first time I've seen @ yahoo62278, her emotions explode, like missiles.

I know its nature @ yahoo62278, the person is very patient and generous, which I have seen when he was managing the yobit campaign, millions of problems that came when the yobit campaign was run, but did not explode his anger like this.

Actually @ yahoo62278 has good intentions, he doesn't get angry easily, he always tries to deal with campaign participants he manages wisely and positively, but this time it's different.
If I draw from the conclusion the topic @yahoo62278, for the future for campaign participants, it is up to whoever the manager is, no problem.

In essence, if you have a problem in a campaign, please act with the main/participant account.

Give a problematic opinion and complaint, I'm sure the manager will treat it well, no need to be afraid, (no need to hide behind the scenes) You will not be raped and tortured, you will be served lovingly by your manager.

[yahoo62278]

I am literally speechless for words as to how to respond to that.

I'll remind you that you don't need to actually speak when posting.  

(I'm only a grammar nazi when people misuse the word literally, which is a word meant to clear ambiguity)

I am just trying to say that what DireWolfM14 said is appalling and is really not a good look.

@Hhampuz don't pay attention to these types of threads man. You're handling things just fine.

I don't think this is a good advice overall and taking it would not be an ethical decision from an good campaign manager.

I think taking this advice has the potential to harm Hhampuz’s reputation. He can delay responding for some time to evaluate the facts if he needs to. 

He needs to report whatever issues are happening in a campaign in the campaigns thread, but as far as responding to users in a thread meant to attack, he can disregard.

Long as he has posted the issue in the campaign thread, paused campaign, and done all he could all is well.

[ChuckBuck]

skip

Yes, and sneaky bitches like you keep appearing here to lick other people's asses, nice job  If you're brave enough and kind enough to live as a human, come here with your main account, or no, feel comfortable to continue being a bitch  Payment issues are not entirely by the manager, so do not find ways to blame them.

[FIFA worldcup]

The situation has been resolved. What is the problem?

The problem isn't the situation or it being solved. The problem is pussies not having the balls to make a post without hiding.

I have no problem telling you you're an asshole from my account. You have no problem telling me what you feel either. That's how it should be handled everytime.  Whether we like or dislike each other, respect the person and the forum enough to say your thoughts or feelings without fear of retribution.

Ideally this should happen in an ideal world but reality is different sometimes. If money was not involved in this forum, then they would have argued with the main account.
 
Now a person with Sr/Hero account complain to you or any other manager,  even though you are fair and wouldn't mind, other managers may not think the same way. The least which they can do is to put them on the ignore list and wouldn't accept them in future campaigns and no one will know that.
Secondly, they are afraid from account being tagged, not by the person they complain but maybe by the DT friends of that manager. Even though all this may not happen but sometimes the fear is enough to take this step by using newbies accounts.

You would agree that everything is not fair here, so no one takes the risk to expose their clean account but yes you will see the troll from the -ve trusted Sr/Hero accounts because they are useless accounts (can't make money).

[DireWolfM14]

So, maybe this shitstick gets away this time.  

This is the first time I have ever heard the consequences of asking a question to be described as "getting away with it".

I am literally speechless for words as to how to respond to that. That sounds a lot like something someone might say who is being graded by the chinese social credit system.

Cool story, bro.  If you can't see that I was using my own indignant emotional reaction to express why my rationality would excuse the user's action, then I don't know what to say.  Take the whole post into account, please.  Don't focus on eight words, and pretend like they were about "asking a question."  I'm sure you're reading comprehension skills are more acute than that.

[marlboroza]

It's obviously 1 of the participants right?

It can be one of participants and it can be anyone else. It can be competition. It can be someone who is tagged by Hhampuz. It can be someone who is kicked from campaign or someone who is not accepted.

I ask that the community not respond to any accusation such as this unless a person posts from their main account.

I would like to point that it is irrelevant who is making accusation as long as accusation is true and valid, that is all what matters at the end.
There are some posts somewhere in this forum of some senior members who think that managers should escrow funds to avoid situations like this one, that they share some responsibility and should pay from their pocket, just like some other senior members think that managers should not pay because it is company who should pay and if company doesn't pay managers shouldn't either.

Hypothetically if someone pays me to place advertisement on my car, I would expect them to pay me, if they say they can't pay me because company didn't pay them it is only up to me to say "it is ok, you don't have to pay me" or "I don't care, pay me from your pocket".

I think Hhampuz is great person, manager and everything and this is forum after all, users should not use it as "pay-to-post system", and if I was participant I would say "it is ok, who fucks blender, lets move on"  just like I would say for any other campaign but I also know that someone doesn't share my opinion and they do have right to ask for what they agreed on, as much as they have right to "anonymously complain".

[o_e_l_e_o]

Hypothetically if someone pays me to place advertisement on my car, I would expect them to pay me, if they say they can't pay me because company didn't pay them it is only up to me to say "it is ok, you don't have to pay me" or "I don't care, pay me from your pocket".

This not an accurate analogy when we are talking about signature campaigns, though. It isn't the campaign manager who is paying to have something advertised (excluding, of course, the scenarios where campaign managers pay to advertise themselves and the services they offer). It is the company in question who is paying for the advertisement - the campaign manager is really only a middleman in this situation.

It would be more like it someone came to you and said "I am the manager for company X in this town. We are paying people to place an advertisement on their cars. My job is to come round every weekend to check your car, and if the advertisement is still there, we'll pay you weekly". If company X suddenly goes bust and doesn't pay either me or the manager one weekend, then I don't think any reasonable person would demand that the manager should pay people for the last week out his own pocket - they'd simply remove the advertisement and move on.


To go back on topic regarding the initial post: We can all repeat the statement that no user is going to be tagged for asking a question, and certainly, that is the way it should be. However, the mere fact that users keep posting from alt accounts means that the belief that they will be attacked exists, regardless of whether or not that is true. It points to wider issues with the culture of the forum, a forum which is one of the best in terms of freedom of speech not being moderated, that people are scared of exercising their free speech because of the trust system.

[yahoo62278]

This post was not made only because a person hid behind an account to make an accusation or speak a truth. It's not about whom they attacked/questioned.

It's a post to tell people to stand up and have a voice. There is no need to hind behind a new account.

If users have a concern or question, they should be able to voice it without fear. If we all treated each other with mutual respect this place would be so much better. We don't all have to like each other, but should respect one another.

I'm not completely innocent as far as not respecting others at all times either. I never said I was, but I will be trying to change that from now on.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If users have a concern or question, they should be able to voice it without fear.

I completely agree, but we are both talking from relatively safe and privileged positions on DT1, and can both be fairly confident that we could raise controversial or unpopular opinions without fearing any real retribution, and certainly not being red tagged by other DT members because of it. As I said, I completely agree that all users should be able to raise questions or concerns without fear, but the very fact that people continue to hide behind new accounts suggests that not everyone feels this way, and that is something that should be addressed.

Having said all that, anonymous reporting is commonplace throughout the world, in workplaces, colleges and universities, to law enforcement agencies, in healthcare and other public services, and so forth. Although it is regrettable that users feel they have to use alt accounts for some issues, we shouldn't be seeking to restrict their freedom to do so if they so choose.

[figmentofmyass]

This post was not made only because a person hid behind an account to make an accusation or speak a truth. It's not about whom they attacked/questioned.

It's a post to tell people to stand up and have a voice. There is no need to hind behind a new account.

people get DT red tagged on this forum based purely on opinion. they get tagged for having trust lists other people don't like. they literally get retaliatory negative feedback for publicly speaking out against others.

it's painfully obvious that people should hide behind alt accounts.

If users have a concern or question, they should be able to voice it without fear.

"should be able to" =/= "can".

this doesn't mean shit coming from DT1 members, who perpetually reinforce and turn a blind eye to trust abuse. until you guys actually take a stand against improper use of the trust system, nothing will change.

so stop complaining......

[alani123]

I think the messenger shouldn't be killed. IN this case since the evidence is laid out publicly for everyone's eyes, an accusation in my eyes is just as valid coming from an anonymous source, as by a party harmed.

Yes, the manager in question has maintained a good record... But in my very humble opinion any claims made against them should still be taken seriously regardless of past records or the accuser's status.

In my view, this answer from he other thread is most reasonable.

He doesn't owe any funds to the campaign participants because it is not his fault since they didn't come online and no other communication that forum account.

But my humble suggestion for any campaign managers while self escrowing a campaign will be, put you campaign paused when you doesn't have enough funds to pay the participants for the next coming week so participants were aware of the situation and let the participants to wore signature on their own risk.

I often see this kind of announcement from yahoo when he doesn't get top-up for ongoing or next weeks.

If the manager was claiming to hold escrow, it should be disclosed that funds aren't sufficient for an ongoing term. The liability for paying lies with the advertised party if they didn't also inform the manager. In this case I would take the past record of the manager into account also as it is unlikely that there was anything planned with malintent. But caution should be exercised always when managing and escrowing to avoid such situations. Attacking the messenger doesn't help in my view.

[andulolika]

On the subject, I don't really like the idea but perhaps the managers if they are trustworthy enough they should have the payment a week in advance, just in case things go like this one.

On the other hand, I wouldn't blame the dude for using a alt with all the cuntheads around even if I would normaly do.
Also, if your account is doxxed there is no other way to achieve privacy and speak out.

Edit: some also like to get their nose where it doesn't belong for the simple fact of trying to be the liking of others and not being actualy helpful, note my flag supporters.
Edit2: I don't think anyone can blame OP of that post either, a manager shouldn't manage a probable scam just because he gets paid to, look at parodium, I got banned because making a death threat to that fucker which still promotes things of arguable trustworthyness.
On my defense I were already half bottle of jd in.

Edit3 days after: I lost quite a bit of trust in yahoo after this post. Not a bit towards the trustworthiness but yes about the interests and clan he might of joined.

[CjMapope]

Ya tbh, i stay out of most non-bitcoin things on this forum for this reason, im scared of the retaliation ive seen MANY times between members
People can argue that it happens or not, but thats just how i feel and what i have seen personally (especially in the last year or so)

I have doxxed myself many times over the years thru physical trades here, and i just cant risk my family by rocking the boat with people/groups here, so i dont.
My own fault for not being anon i guess, but who would have thought this place would get like it is now?

Its easy for those who are still anon here to have a strong opposing opinion, or those already established in the circles here, but for the rest of us....  
i totally understand people making alts to express themselves, and attacking them over it maybe isnt the right way, maybe we should look as to WHY people feel/act this way...

[marlboroza]

This not an accurate analogy when we are talking about signature campaigns

Ok.
Bob pays me to find one person who will dig holes. He gives me 0.01 BTC for the job. I hire you to dig hole, and I tell you that Bob wants you to dig few holes and that you will get 0.01BTC for each hole you dig. I pay you 0.01BTC for first hole and knowing I don't have any money left I let you dig another hole. After all that, I say that I don't have money to pay you for that second hole because Bob never gave me more money and you should wait for Bob to pay me.

This post was not made only because a person hid behind an account to make an accusation or speak a truth. It's not about whom they attacked/questioned.

It's a post to tell people to stand up and have a voice. There is no need to hind behind a new account.

If users have a concern or question, they should be able to voice it without fear. If we all treated each other with mutual respect this place would be so much better. We don't all have to like each other, but should respect one another.

I'm not completely innocent as far as not respecting others at all times either. I never said I was, but I will be trying to change that from now on.

"be a man" and risk that you will be ignored, probably won't receive merits in future, maybe tagged if you keep pushing something over and over again which "you" think it is true but is nothing but false conspiracy theory, probably blacklisted by several campaign managers. Hm, maybe main account is tagged, maybe someone doesn't have enough users who will agree with them so they create alt account to look like there is more agreement, maybe someone made many deals, shared info and doesn't want to risk anything using main account, maybe someone wants to express themselves but doesn't want to engage in more drama than necessary, there are many reasons to use newbie account, it is not just simple as "be a man and post from your account".

[LoyceV]

I would rather see a problem/question posted from an alt account than not at all..

I remember reading the same statement from theymos a long time ago. I tried to find back that post once, but failed, so is someone can find it, I'd appreciate it.

As much as I dislike seeing alt accounts used for this, I do understand it. Bitcointalk can be quite intimidating when it comes to (negative) feedback.

While I do agree with TECHSHARE and eddie13 as far as sometimes the wrong road is taken by users, I believe that a person shows much more character by having the balls to say what they feel without fear of retribution.

I can see the argument both ways and it's a total bullshit situation. Veteran forum users also need to stop being bitches as well. If I have been a bitch I apologize. I would rather see users treat other with more respect vs having a dick measuring contest on here.

If we keep going the way we are going, this place is going to be a warzone. Who wants that? What will we accomplish positively that way?

I'm just quoting this part for visibility I'd love to see less drama and more constructive interaction on Bitcointalk.

We cannot keep being negative here guys. It's not gonna do anything but push people away from bitcoin. The forum doesn't belong to 20 users, it belongs to everyone. I don't mean everyone owns bitcointalk. I'm just saying we need to open our eyes before it gets to the too late point.

Well said! I'll agree some more

Either way, if they don't come online within the next 2 weeks (end of this month) I'll pay you out of my own pocket I suppose.

I won't comment on what I think Hhampuz should have done, but this was his reaction.

From what I've seen from Hhampuz before, that's exactly the response I expected from him. He's much more fair than needed.

Bob pays me to find one person who will dig holes. He gives me 0.01 BTC for the job. I hire you to dig hole, and I tell you that Bob wants you to dig few holes and that you will get 0.01BTC for each hole you dig. I pay you 0.01BTC for first hole and knowing I don't have any money left I let you dig another hole. After all that, I say that I don't have money to pay you for that second hole because Bob never gave me more money and you should wait for Bob to pay me.

That's basically what any HR-department does.