[RESOLVED] MagicByt3 - refusing to honor his auction contract

[suchmoon]

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Water under the bridge. A compromise has been achieved, you're shipping to the escrow. Just focus on completing this deal - it's all in your hands now.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Water under the bridge. A compromise has been achieved, you're shipping to the escrow. Just focus on completing this deal - it's all in your hands now.

Agreed.. Will post update once bar is in the post.

[AB de Royse777]

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Yes I missed if I am being honest with you. May be I read but did not actually found it a point to be taken.

Here is an incident where how I felt in a seriation and I hope this will help you to understand what actually going on in there from physcholocsl points.

A guy came to me for a collateral loan and it was around something 0.04 BTC or so but he was insisting of using an escrow for the alt he will put as colletaral. I really felt annoyed coz I know if anyone would see my history then they would not bother for a third party escrow to hold for only 0.04 BTC loan.

If you see the trading history TECSHARE has then I am pretty sure no one will be much worried about sending him anything. I am sure asking for escrow and all this just annoyed TECSHARE and it's just a natural human reaction.

Take it easy. I am sure end of the deal you will feel happy.

Edit:

Will post update once bar is in the post.

you are doing the right thing that you needed to do without being much worried at the beginning.

Cheers,

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Yes I missed if I am being honest with you. May be I read but did not actually found it a point to be taken.

Here is an incidence where how I felt in a seriation and I hope this will help you to understand what actually going on in their from physcholocsl points.

A guy came to me for a collateral loan and it was around something 0.04 BTC or so but he was insisting of using an escrow for the alt he will put as colletaral. I really felt annoyed coz I know if anyone would see my history then they would not bother for a third party escrow to hold for only 0.04 BTC loan.

If you see the trading history TECSHARE has then I am pretty sure no one will be much worried about sending him anything. I am sure asking for escrow and all this just annoyed TECSHARE and it's just a natural human reaction.

Take it easy. I am sure end of the deal you will feel hsppy.

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there?  there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

[AB de Royse777]

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there?  there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

Let's just move on bud. Don't take much stress. Once you get the postal address from MJ then just post the item. You will be fine.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there?  there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

Let's just move on bud. Don't take much stress. Once you get the postal address from MJ then just post the item. You will be fine.

Thank you and also to everyone who gave me some advice on this matter.

I look forward to Tecshare getting his bar and this saga being over.

Two happy customers.. One to go..

Magic.

[LoyceV]

First: the auction terms were terrible (see unedited post):

:Auction Terms:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC  PER BAR

:Starting Bid:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My first impression was reading: "Starting Bid 0.002".
What MagicByt3 wrote can easily be misinterpreted. And that could easily have been prevented:

:Auction Terms:

:Starting Bid:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC  PER BAR

:Bid Increments:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My terms were clear.

No, not really, as explained above.

The open price shown is 0.01BTC
Bids should have been 0.002 BTC

How can you not see this is far from intuitive?

We have all been here for years and know how things run.

2.  The bar is to be directly send to the buyer not to the escrow.
~
How is this escrow if I have to send directly to the buyer escrow is to protect BOTH party's not just the buyer.
I did ask to send it direct to MJ escrow but he said no the buyer has requested direct send.

I've never used escrow, so I'm not familiar with "how things run", but I would have had the same expectation as MagicByt3. What's the point of using an escrow if the escrow doesn't check both parts of the trade?

I have consistently through my time here used various different escrows across the forum and never once have shipped my item to the escrow. It is always direct send. I have been the buyer and the seller for many high priced items.
Saying "you and I both know this isn't how escrow works" is completely wrong and shows your inexperience and stubbornness.

Hypothetical: even with signed delivery, what happens if the seller ships a brick? It's still going to be the seller's word against the buyer's word, which negates the use of escrow.

TECHSHARE won't give me the TXID... or allow signed..

Based on the PM, it's because of his privacy. I get that for the signed post, but the TXID will become obvious after the escrow forwards funds to the seller. Unless the escrow uses different funds and also acts as a mixer, but my assumption would be input > output (minus fees).

But I think as it stands this situation stems more from inexperience and lacking communication skills than anything more sinister.

Agreed!

Honestly guys I think this is just getting way out of proportion.

Agreed!

What a shitshow.... round and round and round....

This sums it up nicely. I've read most of the topic, but this filled far more pages than needed.

I'm glad this sorta came to an end already

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

First: the auction terms were terrible (see unedited post):

:Auction Terms:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC  PER BAR

:Starting Bid:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My first impression was reading: "Starting Bid 0.002".
What MagicByt3 wrote can easily be misinterpreted. And that could easily have been prevented:

:Auction Terms:

:Starting Bid:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC  PER BAR

:Bid Increments:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My terms were clear.

No, not really, as explained above.

The open price shown is 0.01BTC
Bids should have been 0.002 BTC

How can you not see this is far from intuitive?

We have all been here for years and know how things run.

2.  The bar is to be directly send to the buyer not to the escrow.
~
How is this escrow if I have to send directly to the buyer escrow is to protect BOTH party's not just the buyer.
I did ask to send it direct to MJ escrow but he said no the buyer has requested direct send.

I've never used escrow, so I'm not familiar with "how things run", but I would have had the same expectation as MagicByt3. What's the point of using an escrow if the escrow doesn't check both parts of the trade?

I have consistently through my time here used various different escrows across the forum and never once have shipped my item to the escrow. It is always direct send. I have been the buyer and the seller for many high priced items.
Saying "you and I both know this isn't how escrow works" is completely wrong and shows your inexperience and stubbornness.

Hypothetical: even with signed delivery, what happens if the seller ships a brick? It's still going to be the seller's word against the buyer's word, which negates the use of escrow.

TECHSHARE won't give me the TXID... or allow signed..

Based on the PM, it's because of his privacy. I get that for the signed post, but the TXID will become obvious after the escrow forwards funds to the seller. Unless the escrow uses different funds and also acts as a mixer, but my assumption would be input > output (minus fees).

But I think as it stands this situation stems more from inexperience and lacking communication skills than anything more sinister.

Agreed!

Honestly guys I think this is just getting way out of proportion.

Agreed!

What a shitshow.... round and round and round....

This sums it up nicely. I've read most of the topic, but this filled far more pages than needed.

I'm glad this sorta came to an end already

Thank you LoyceV,  I just was not happy sending the bar direct to the buyer without signed for delivery as I would have had no leg to stand on if he claimed it didn't arrive or it was not as described this was the main issue.

I accept my terms should and could have been much clearer I do accept that was my fault there was confusion over the bidding process but I never tried to do what Techshare is saying by trying to gain additional funds in my view the bids were correct and I have made a detailed post on this but again accept it may not have been a conventional way to sell here on the forum.

I am only human and people make mistakes I am doing what the community asks of me by shipping now to the escrow.

I have taken the advice and I will ship there's not really anything more to say on this matter.

Thanks for the advice.

Magic

[transvestite lamb]

So much wasted Internet. 

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Bar sent to MJ escrow delivery should take around 5 days but I expect it to be sooner.

I have given both MJ and Tecshare the tracking information and photos of the item in the post office.

I look forward to receiving my payment from MJ upon delivery.

Thank you

Magic

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

[Quickseller]

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

It will be good when your customers confirm receipt of your bars. However any positive trust score you get out of this auction will be overshadowed by what happened during the auction and before you shipped.

If you have other items you want to sell, you can auction them off, and if you do, you should take this as a learning experience and refine how you conduct business.

Good luck.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

It will be good when your customers confirm receipt of your bars. However any positive trust score you get out of this auction will be overshadowed by what happened during the auction and before you shipped.

If you have other items you want to sell, you can auction them off, and if you do, you should take this as a learning experience and refine how you conduct business.

Good luck.

I already have conformation of the first 2 being received one was bought by the escrow agent and the 2nd is being re-shipped by him.

I still don't think what I asked for was uncalled for.

 I have no previous dealing with either the buyer or the escrow service.

I was asked to ship direct to the buyer outside the terms of the listing, without any proofs if me requiring a signature on delivery as per the listing was not acceptable then the buyer should not have bid.   

The escrow was also the buyer choice.

All I asked for was proof that the escrow was indeed holding the funds and all this could have been avoided.

I took responsibility for the poor outline of the auction terms but nothing underhand was attempted at any point.

End of the day a contract is only valid if Both party's agree on it not just one I have bowed to peer pressure and shipped without proof and on the "word" of the community.

Anyway item is now shipped I doubt I will conduct any sales here again the experience has been horrible from a simple mistake into 2 super threads where I have been accused of underhanded tactics.

Shame I had some nice plans ahead for some more custom stuff but I doubt I will go ahead with them now.

Magic

[suchmoon]

Anyway item is now shipped I doubt I will conduct any sales here again the experience has been horrible from a simple mistake into 2 super threads where I have been accused of underhanded tactics.

Most people were super helpful to you in the auction thread, trying to explain to you how your terms can be misinterpreted and how you could conclude the auction amicably, but unfortunately you ignored most of that advice. TECSHARE is an asshole to everyone so don't take it personally, and in this case he had every right to be like that, seeing how your behavior did not inspire trust.

You can't really expect to impose your own rules when you start business in a new place. For example on ebay you'd probably have the funds on hold for 21 days for the initial trades on a new account, and if you dragged your feet with shipping you'd probably have a negative rating already. No hand-holding and personalized advice for sure.

Here at least mistakes can be excused if you make an effort to learn from them.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Anyway item is now shipped I doubt I will conduct any sales here again the experience has been horrible from a simple mistake into 2 super threads where I have been accused of underhanded tactics.

Most people were super helpful to you in the auction thread, trying to explain to you how your terms can be misinterpreted and how you could conclude the auction amicably, but unfortunately you ignored most of that advice. TECSHARE is an asshole to everyone so don't take it personally, and in this case he had every right to be like that, seeing how your behavior did not inspire trust.

You can't really expect to impose your own rules when you start business in a new place. For example on ebay you'd probably have the funds on hold for 21 days for the initial trades on a new account, and if you dragged your feet with shipping you'd probably have a negative rating already. No hand-holding and personalized advice for sure.

Here at least mistakes can be excused if you make an effort to learn from them.

Advice noted from all and I do appreciate the people who stuck up for me and saw things from my side not just one sided.

I did take advice and I have done what was asked not much else to say on the matter I hope the buyers like there bars.

Even thought I am proving I am trust worthy I don't see the community being so understanding over the matter.

I half expect more negative rating from "friends" like I have been getting already.

Magic

[LoyceV]

I half expect more negative rating from "friends" like I have been getting already.

You have not received any negative feedback.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

I half expect more negative rating from "friends" like I have been getting already.

You have not received any negative feedback.

my apologizes,  neutral it should have said.

anyway let's move on from this please guys the deal is done we await the buyer's review!

Thanks again for the advice both in PM's and via the topics.

Magic

[DireWolfM14]

@MagicByt3

If there's one lesson you should take away from this fiasco it's that zeros matter!  0.1, 0.01, and 0.001 are not the same thing.  When you use them interchangeably people get confused.  In one of your posts you seemed to leave out a zero, referring to one bid as "0.1."  I didn't see anyone bidding that high.  In another you seemed to suggest that jimjam123 bid "0.02."  Again, nothing in the thread or jimjam123's post history corroborates that statement.

Tecshare's frustration seemed to only exacerbate your tendency to make mistakes, which only further frustrated Tecshare.  In the future try to be more careful about what you write, and try to be very clear in your instructions.  Accepting bids of 0.002 while your starting price is 0.01 is quite confusing.  It seems that you were expecting people to understand that you interpret that as a total bid of 0.012.  That's not the way things are done, and only fueled the participants confusion.

[TECSHARE]

TECSHARE is an asshole to everyone so don't take it personally, and in this case he had every right to be like that, seeing how your behavior did not inspire trust.

Not true at all. People who act with respect, honesty, and decency I try my best to reciprocate as much as I am able to. People who don't take responsibility for their mistakes, attack, or are dishonest, I will beat my skull against theirs until one of our skulls are caved in. Don't mistake lack of a dependence on conflict avoidance with being an asshole to everyone, because it is simply not true.

Avoiding conflict at all cost IMO is more harmful than seeing things through even if it pisses some people off, because it is the only way things are changed some times. Magicbyt3 simply was intent on having his tit for tat, inspite of my several efforts to deescalate. Hopefully he learned something and will continue participating in the community with a newfound recognition of the importance an agreement holds here. As a place that is heavily populated with pseudonymous people, really all anyone has here is their word, so it is more important here than most places.

[Vod]

Not true at all. People who act with respect, honesty, and decency I try my best to reciprocate as much as I am able to. People who don't take responsibility for their mistakes, attack, or are dishonest, I will beat my skull against theirs until one of our skulls are caved in. Don't mistake lack of a dependence on conflict avoidance with being an asshole to everyone, because it is simply not true. e has here is their word, so it is more important here than most places.

Techy, you will not get to decide who is honest or respectful until you show those traits yourself.  And what's decent to you may not be to me.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

Can you confirm I have sent you the tracking info Tecshare please?

I have accepted my mistake's and I have done what is being asked of me what else can I do?

I have alt accounts attacking me in my own topic I have had to lock it down.

Tecshare I have sent to the escrow at my cost and also my cost to reship.. again let's not keep things going here. people make mistakes I have accepted that I made one and Jimjam also has made a post about it to as far as I am concerned the matter is over I await reply's for tecshare and Last of the V8's.

I hope they enjoy there bars.

Sorry for being human and making a mistake.. I'm sure we've all done it at some point.

Magic