Julian Assange: Extradition Hearing (from UK to US) begins in London

[JollyGood]

What are you views regarding Julian Asssange being held in a UK prison while fighting extradition to the USA?

24th February 2020 (today) was the first day of the extradition hearing and the extradition hearing will be adjourned at the end of this week of legal argument and continue with three weeks of evidence scheduled to begin on 18th May 2020.

There is still so much legal debate left before a judgement can be made but the Assange legal team will exhaust every option in appeal after appeal because they are fairly sure he will receive a very long sentence in the USA.

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[Spendulus]

What are you views regarding Julian Asssange being held in a UK prison while fighting extradition to the USA?

24th February 2020 (today) was the first day of the extradition hearing and the extradition hearing will be adjourned at the end of this week of legal argument and continue with three weeks of evidence scheduled to begin on 18th May 2020.

There is still so much legal debate left before a judgement can be made but the Assange legal team will exhaust every option in appeal after appeal because they are fairly sure he will receive a very long sentence in the USA.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

[Juggy777]

What are you views regarding Julian Asssange being held in a UK prison while fighting extradition to the USA?

24th February 2020 (today) was the first day of the extradition hearing and the extradition hearing will be adjourned at the end of this week of legal argument and continue with three weeks of evidence scheduled to begin on 18th May 2020.

There is still so much legal debate left before a judgement can be made but the Assange legal team will exhaust every option in appeal after appeal because they are fairly sure he will receive a very long sentence in the USA.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

@JollyGood this hearing will go on for a very long time, and I don’t think that he’ll be extradited anytime soon as the law will give him many appeals to exhaust first, hence he will have to wait patiently till the final judgement comes. Also @Spendulus do you believe that there’s a chance that Trump may grant him a pardon for his acts, and drop all the cases against him in my opinion I feel there’s a 50 - 50 chance of that happening but what do you think?.

[JollyGood]

Kindly elaborate. I can understand the analogy when it is applied to Assange but cannot see it apply to Trump no matter which way it is applied.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

[Cnut237]

Kindly elaborate. I can understand the analogy when it is applied to Assange but cannot see it apply to Trump no matter which way it is applied.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

I think there's a distinction to be made here. Assange is an outsider, Trump positions himself so that he looks like an outsider.

I posted a bit about this in another thread:

Democracy has been in trouble for decades, due primarily to growing levels of inequality. The financial crisis and its aftermath exacerbated the discontent. What we have seen since then is that the trust gap has been ruthlessly exploited by strongmen who have positioned themselves as outsiders who will represent the people against vested interests. Of course they will do no such thing. They are all staunch conservatives who serve the interests of the wealthy elite at the expense of the poor and the disenfranchised. It's the same old lies, with a different face - but the same different face everywhere, the same trick pulled in country after country: Modi, Erdogan, el-Sisi, Duterte, etc... the contempt for the public is so extreme that they feel they can repeat the process endlessly and we will do nothing about it.

[JollyGood]

@JollyGood this hearing will go on for a very long time, and I don’t think that he’ll be extradited anytime soon as the law will give him many appeals to exhaust first, hence he will have to wait patiently till the final judgement comes.

The whole process will be long, it will take a long time because if the judgement goes against him he will appeal. In the end it will be a monumental task before we reach the end of the matter of extradition either way whether it leads to him being sent to the USA or him being allowed to remain here.

Also @Spendulus do you believe that there’s a chance that Trump may grant him a pardon for his acts, and drop all the cases against him in my opinion I feel there’s a 50 - 50 chance of that happening but what do you think?.

Even though this question was directed at Spendulus I wanted to express an opinion. It is clear Trump will never try to stop the extradition request because he has his own agenda and both he and the GOP will not be letting go of the opportunity to get Assange extradited.

The family of Harry Dunn and various parts of the media in the UK are against extraditing Assange simply on the basis of what many are calling a one-sided extradition treaty: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51602975

BBC news wesbite states: The family of Harry Dunn has urged the government to refuse the extradition of Julian Assange until the US returns the suspect in his death back to the UK.

Dunn family spokesman Radd Seiger accused the US of "hypocrisy" in seeking Assange's extradition, despite rejecting the return of Anne Sacoolas

[Cnut237]

either way whether it leads to him being sent to the USA or him being allowed to remain here.

I think the chance of the US not getting their way here is close to 0%. It's a show trial. The US has suffered reputational damage at his hands, and they will want to make an example of him. It was perhaps a little foolish of him to enter a country that is on favourable terms with the US. Contrast Assange's movements with those of Edward Snowden.

The family of Harry Dunn and various parts of the media in the UK are against extraditing Assange simply on the basis of what many are calling a one-sided extradition treaty

Any interaction between the US and the UK will be one-sided, be it an extradition treaty or a trade deal. This is inevitable given the disparities in power and influence between the two countries. The US is a global superpower. The UK is not. Simply, the UK does as it is told.
If we look at the 'Special Relationship' that exists between the two countries, then the US benefits as the UK is in a strategically important location as the gateway to Europe, in both trade and defence, and the UK is also useful as a military ally so that any US adventurism in say the middle-east seems a tiny bit less unilateral. As for how the UK benefits, well, that's a little more difficult to determine. Perhaps we are first in the queue for any scraps that fall from the US table, perhaps not. This is one reason why Brexit was a bad idea. The UK outside Europe is stripped of much of its negotiating power, and absolutely at the mercy of US interests.

[JollyGood]

Very well articulated, I agree with you. It looks clear that Assange is definitely the outsider and Trump was positioned by himself and his party to look like an outsider.

Kindly elaborate. I can understand the analogy when it is applied to Assange but cannot see it apply to Trump no matter which way it is applied.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

I think there's a distinction to be made here. Assange is an outsider, Trump positions himself so that he looks like an outsider.

[squatz1]

Very well articulated, I agree with you. It looks clear that Assange is definitely the outsider and Trump was positioned by himself and his party to look like an outsider.

Kindly elaborate. I can understand the analogy when it is applied to Assange but cannot see it apply to Trump no matter which way it is applied.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

I think there's a distinction to be made here. Assange is an outsider, Trump positions himself so that he looks like an outsider.

Trump may as well be an outsider at certain points. Like when something like this happens - https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html - where a US intelligence briefer (to congress) overstated the assement of Russian interference in their picking of a candidate.

But yes, at the end of the day Trump is the commander in chief and he is NOT an outsider in the least. That's not a fair way to describe yourself when you're the one that is running the show.

[Spendulus]

Very well articulated, I agree with you. It looks clear that Assange is definitely the outsider and Trump was positioned by himself and his party to look like an outsider.

....

Trump was rejected by the Republican Party in the primaries. They kept trying to bring Jeb Bush up in the polls and the debates. Then during and after the election, the Never trumpers split off.

Very well articulated, I agree with you. It looks clear that Assange is definitely the outsider and Trump was positioned by himself and his party to look like an outsider.

Kindly elaborate. I can understand the analogy when it is applied to Assange but cannot see it apply to Trump no matter which way it is applied.

Trump and Assange are both outsiders fighting the system.

I think there's a distinction to be made here. Assange is an outsider, Trump positions himself so that he looks like an outsider.

Trump may as well be an outsider at certain points. Like when something like this happens - https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html - where a US intelligence briefer (to congress) overstated the assement of Russian interference in their picking of a candidate.

But yes, at the end of the day Trump is the commander in chief and he is NOT an outsider in the least. That's not a fair way to describe yourself when you're the one that is running the show.

It's true that after several bitter years, the rank and file of the Republican at least seems to be behind Trump. I do not think they are reliably pro-Trump, not at all. Some are just Washington DC swamp creatures. But the entire 3.5 year spectacle of anti-Trump actions has clearly shown the extent of the hatred of him and his policies.

I can see how there is an argument that the commander in chief by definition cannot be an outsider. But then it's necessary to redefine concepts to reach the desired conclusion.

[JollyGood]

I know staying with the EU has its benefits but being outside of the EU has its benefits too. If any country thinks the UK will be a push over as an independent sovereign country then they are misguided. Sure the Uk will have to be flexible on a lot of pressure the USA will apply but certain things are not up for negotiation.

On a political level it is clear the fate of Assange is sealed but stranger things have happened throughout history and maybe for one reason or another he might not get extradited or if he does there will be many guarantees attached such as capping any possible prison term and not facing execution etc

either way whether it leads to him being sent to the USA or him being allowed to remain here.

I think the chance of the US not getting their way here is close to 0%. It's a show trial. The US has suffered reputational damage at his hands, and they will want to make an example of him. It was perhaps a little foolish of him to enter a country that is on favourable terms with the US. Contrast Assange's movements with those of Edward Snowden.

The family of Harry Dunn and various parts of the media in the UK are against extraditing Assange simply on the basis of what many are calling a one-sided extradition treaty

Any interaction between the US and the UK will be one-sided, be it an extradition treaty or a trade deal. This is inevitable given the disparities in power and influence between the two countries. The US is a global superpower. The UK is not. Simply, the UK does as it is told.
If we look at the 'Special Relationship' that exists between the two countries, then the US benefits as the UK is in a strategically important location as the gateway to Europe, in both trade and defence, and the UK is also useful as a military ally so that any US adventurism in say the middle-east seems a tiny bit less unilateral. As for how the UK benefits, well, that's a little more difficult to determine. Perhaps we are first in the queue for any scraps that fall from the US table, perhaps not. This is one reason why Brexit was a bad idea. The UK outside Europe is stripped of much of its negotiating power, and absolutely at the mercy of US interests.

[Spendulus]

...Also @Spendulus do you believe that there’s a chance that Trump may grant him a pardon for his acts, and drop all the cases against him in my opinion I feel there’s a 50 - 50 chance of that happening but what do you think?.

Yes but it has to be quietly done. Maybe at the end of his 2nd term, or in a group of pardons.

No matter the real facts about Assange he is polarizing and disruptive. But nobody can look at what's happened to him and say it's just fine.

[JollyGood]

Trump seems to have played the outsider card to get in to the Whitehouse but it is highly questionable if he ever was really an outsider. Now all that matters for all parties is what happens in November. I think it will be very difficult to dislodge him because once again the popular vote will probably go with the Democrat candidate but what will happen to the college vote? How many of those will the Democrats be able win?

Trump may as well be an outsider at certain points. Like when something like this happens - https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html - where a US intelligence briefer (to congress) overstated the assement of Russian interference in their picking of a candidate.

But yes, at the end of the day Trump is the commander in chief and he is NOT an outsider in the least. That's not a fair way to describe yourself when you're the one that is running the show.

[squatz1]

Trump seems to have played the outsider card to get in to the Whitehouse but it is highly questionable if he ever was really an outsider. Now all that matters for all parties is what happens in November. I think it will be very difficult to dislodge him because once again the popular vote will probably go with the Democrat candidate but what will happen to the college vote? How many of those will the Democrats be able win?

Trump may as well be an outsider at certain points. Like when something like this happens - https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html - where a US intelligence briefer (to congress) overstated the assement of Russian interference in their picking of a candidate.

But yes, at the end of the day Trump is the commander in chief and he is NOT an outsider in the least. That's not a fair way to describe yourself when you're the one that is running the show.

If we're going to talk about what Trump was before the election, I think it's fair to say that he was an outsider. As he truly was. The RNC did try to stop him from getting the nomination, and the Never Trump movement was prominent, but at the end of the day he galavanized enough primary support and free air time to win. He also convinced the party that he'd be able to win in November -- and he did.

Trump was an outsider then, but after 4 years in the WH I don't think he can run on that outsider card anymore. He's literally not an outsider, he's the President of the United States. He's the biggest insider.

[Spendulus]

Trump seems to have played the outsider card to get in to the Whitehouse but it is highly questionable if he ever was really an outsider. Now all that matters for all parties is what happens in November. I think it will be very difficult to dislodge him because once again the popular vote will probably go with the Democrat candidate but what will happen to the college vote? How many of those will the Democrats be able win?

Trump may as well be an outsider at certain points. Like when something like this happens - https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html - where a US intelligence briefer (to congress) overstated the assement of Russian interference in their picking of a candidate.

But yes, at the end of the day Trump is the commander in chief and he is NOT an outsider in the least. That's not a fair way to describe yourself when you're the one that is running the show.

If we're going to talk about what Trump was before the election, I think it's fair to say that he was an outsider. As he truly was. The RNC did try to stop him from getting the nomination, and the Never Trump movement was prominent, but at the end of the day he galavanized enough primary support and free air time to win. He also convinced the party that he'd be able to win in November -- and he did.

Trump was an outsider then, but after 4 years in the WH I don't think he can run on that outsider card anymore. He's literally not an outsider, he's the President of the United States. He's the biggest insider.

Okay, but still an "outsider" from the view of the Swamp-Creatures. Or are they, now the Outsiders?