Copycat Signatures: Chipmixer and Wasabi

[johhnyUA]

The signature (which IIRC roslinpl made back in 2017) has been in use for over 2 years now. I think it is extremely clear that the intention of the signature was not to encourage people to copy it (?) and then attempt seek damages.

Personally I think this case is a lot more clear cut than Vadi2323 - you can't make the claim that stealing a signature design to promote a different service is parody.

This will be unpopular post, but let me clear:

1. There no real damage to anyone from that behavior

What i mean under this term?

- Is there any real damage to ChipMixer? I doubt.
It would appear, if for example under Chipmixer-style signature there was malicious services. Or if some another mixer (or maybe service) which would advertised here used this style. Or if signature were changed to false claims ((how it was in Vadi and kzv case at first, where "Chipmixer" was near terms "narcotraffic" and "terrorism") which would damage Chipmixer reputation. But noone of this there here. Even vice versa, if people see such colors, they be reminded about real service under this signature.

-Is there  any real damage to forum?
Of course not. It very different from text plagiarism. With plagiarism of posts, forum become more polluted with spam and repetitive quotes. There become harder to find anything useful and even to stay on forum (it's cringe to see one sentences many times).
But if this true against signatures? Of course not. For forum member or newbie there no difference to scroll down shitpost with original signature or copy.

Soooooooo......

This is unethical, to use product of another's labor, even if original will stay with owner. It's also unethical to use signature while one company is paying for creator and another is not. Yes, this is annoying (mostly for DarkStar and Chipmixer applicants) to see such things.

But as i said above: Wasabi not promoting themselves here, so there no financial interest nor to Wasabi nor to Gyrsur. There no victims (as i showed above). There no harm to forum. So, what's a problem?

I understand DarkStar's thoughts, and Loycev, and Lauda. If you from childhood is under control of copyright ideology (OBEY - saying Netflix, OBEY - saying Microsoft, OBEY - saying any patent troll) it's hard to think independently. But please, use hyperbolization, it's very useful in such cases. Today some people want to ban someone for using three words in the same disposition with same three colors on black background, and tomorrow we will ban someone for using word "Sky" (like it was with NoMan'sSky or Microsoft). So please, stop this shit and move forward.

[hosseinimr93]

-Is there  any real damage to forum?
Of course not. It very different from text plagiarism. With plagiarism of posts, forum become more polluted with spam and repetitive quotes. There become harder to find anything useful and even to stay on forum (it's cringe to see one sentences many times).

Plagiarism is against rules because the person who plagiarize benefits from what copied and pasted without any effort. Plagiarism is against rules because it's kind of theft, not because of spamming. There are many spammers in the forum that are not banned. But high quality posters are banned even if they plagiarize only once.  

Stealing signature design is kind of plagiarism and kind of theft.  

[johhnyUA]

Plagiarism is against rules because it's kind of theft, not because of spamming.

It's better to ask theymos. In case of signatures, there no direct theft. After my theft are you forbidden to keep using it or what?

Or if we will think in such way, will it be proper decision to ban you from here, if the "owner" of this thought about "plagiarism is theft" (or at least his children, don't forget - 70 years after death copyright works) will appear here and ask us to do it? Or if the owner (what it's better fit here) of this thought - "Plagiarism is against rules because the person who plagiarize benefits from what copied and pasted without any effort. Plagiarism is against rules because it's kind of theft, not because of spamming." (i even see exactly the same idea but in other words here from another user) will ask us to ban you for plagiarism and theft.

[guigui371]

"You know you've made it when others are copying you"

Credit : unsure

[kzv]

Stealing signature design is kind of plagiarism and kind of theft. 

What is signature? I do not understand: what do you tell about?

[Lauda]

The user Gyrsur has not signed in since yesterday so is probably unaware of what is going on so we look forward to him posting here after he read the PM (sent by Lauda) and this thread.

who are you 

Please read this and respond: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229417.

This is all I have got.

[JollyGood]

What a totally inept reply from someone who you informed about the goings-on. He should have at the very least have been courteous enough to reply with an explanation.

The user Gyrsur has not signed in since yesterday so is probably unaware of what is going on so we look forward to him posting here after he read the PM (sent by Lauda) and this thread.

who are you 

Please read this and respond: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229417.

This is all I have got.

[Lauda]

What a totally inept reply from someone who you informed about the goings-on. He should have at the very least have been courteous enough to reply with an explanation.

The user Gyrsur has not signed in since yesterday so is probably unaware of what is going on so we look forward to him posting here after he read the PM (sent by Lauda) and this thread.

who are you 

Please read this and respond: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229417.

This is all I have got.

I have sent him the following, asking the second time for a reply:

Does it matter? Concerned neighborhood cat.. please respond in the thread when you can.

[LoyceV]

This is all I have got.

Like I said: trolling.

Concerned neighborhood cat

Please make this your personal text

[madnessteat]

I believe that Gyrsur did not want to cause financial damage to Chipmixer or ruin their reputation. Most likely, it was an attempt to change the BB-code itself and the Chipmixer signature was chosen as a sample. When I studied the BB-code I also at first looked how the already prepared signatures are made.

When a child learns to draw, he first draws other people's drawings, the musician plays other people's music. Wait for Gyrsur's answer before accusing him of plagiarism.

In my opinion you created a panic on an empty place.   

[Lauda]

better now?  

It is, but lose the rolling eyes. You know that these policies are good for the forum. 

[Lauda]

better now?  

It is, but lose the rolling eyes. You know that these policies are good for the forum. 

better?

Sigh. It is advisable to seek some counseling as you seem to certain aspects of maturity. I wish you the best. 

[dragonvslinux]

better now?  

It is, but lose the rolling eyes. You know that these policies are good for the forum.  

better?

Sigh. It is advisable to seek some counseling as you seem to certain aspects of maturity. I wish you the best.  

Look at their profile Lauda, they are only 11 years old. They signed up when they were 3. Have some respect.

now it's almost perfect I think.  

Much better! Nicely done capwearer.

[Last of the V8s]

  they seem to give these caps to all sortsa riffraff  

[nutildah]

I just came across this issue recently after wondering why Gyrsur had -2 trust.

This is not an acceptable use of the trust system and I will be leaving him a counter-feedback until his negatives are removed.

- While trollish, his actions don't imply that he would be untrustworthy when it comes to conducting any sort of business on the forum.

- He's not wearing the signature anymore.

He's been here since 2012 and doesn't deserve to have his forum reputation tarnished in this manner.

[Csmiami]

----

Positive counter feedbacks aren't a correct use of the trust system, and I'll never understand why it's such a common practice.

We have the "Neutral" tag for these kind of comments

[nutildah]

Positive counter feedbacks aren't a correct use of the trust system

I've never heard anyone say that before. What is your rationalization for that statement?

If other DT members disagreed with BAC's rating, they could easily send mprep positive feedback to counter the rating.

Unfair negative tags are discussed in reputation and sometimes removed, sometimes are countered by an opposite tag or increased by a supporting tag.

I will always counter which I think is wrong -ve feedback, especially if it is wrong retaliatory feedback.

And I can't find the theymos quote for it but:

Theymos has said it's OK to do that if you strongly disagree with the left feedback.

My rationalization is that the negative was incorrect in the first place, so I am simply attempting to undo that. I don't engage in this practice often but this time I think it is warranted.

Ultimately my post here is more of a request that DarkStar_ and JollyGood consider re-evaluating their negative trust on Gyrsur. I'd rather attempt to resolve the issue this way rather than excluding them from my trust network as they of course contribute more good than bad overall. I'm also open to hearing arguments as to why the negative feedback should remain. As things stand, I just can't see how it relates to trustworthiness of trade activity on the forum.

[JollyGood]

I had to search through some posts to re-familiarise myself with what this was all about.

From what I recall, it seems clear that he (Gyrsur) himself is to blame to courting negative publicity and he seemed to thrive upon it at the time. Now with him deleting his posts from this or other threads where he seemed far from apologetic and enjoyed the attention being showered upon him, does not put him in a good light. I was surprised that only 2 people tagged him, it probably should have been more.

In your opinion he is trollish and it does not imply he would be untrustworthy when it comes to conducting any sort of business on the forum and because he has been here 2012 he does not deserve to have his reputation tarnished but I have a different opinion.

Firstly, when he used the signature and it was highlighted to him that he should not he came out fighting with sarcastic comments then decided to change the colour just to make it look "different". Had he showed a different attitude rather than dig in and behave like an immature brat then there would have been no reason for me to tag him. In my opinion he is someone I would not do any form of business with because of his attitude and conduct after it was pointed out to him he stole the signature and used it in an unacceptable manner. Him using the signature to start with was an issue that could have been resolved by him removing it and maybe apologising, his sarcasm and dismissing other views was the issue that led to him being considered untrustworthy and someone who nobody should do business/trade with.

Several members tagged users that no longer wear Yobit signatures but displayed them during the time Yobit was promoting its scam here, does that mean that in every case each of those users that left neutral or red trust should remove or edit the trust just because they are now wearing other signatures? Especially those users that refused to stop promoting Yobit after they were personally kindly requested to stop promoting scams?

If replacing the word scam with deceive, would that also be enough to remove tags? The user Gyrsur deliberately stole the signature then courted negative posts and basically showed himself to be untrustworthy. Who in their right mind would trade with him when he could not be trusted with removing a signature he stole after it was pointed out to him? He probably has zero connection with Wasabi yet he brought their name in to this drama too. In my opinion he is absolutely untrustworthy because of his conduct.

I will replace my red with a neutral tag in order to bring this issue to an end from my side but I see no reason why DarkStar_ would remove his negative tag:

P.P.S: Yes, maybe it's unethical to take someones signature design, but it will be more worse to create here patent and copyright trolls (like in real world)

The signature (which IIRC roslinpl made back in 2017) has been in use for over 2 years now. I think it is extremely clear that the intention of the signature was not to encourage people to copy it (?) and then attempt seek damages.

Personally I think this case is a lot more clear cut than Vadi2323 - you can't make the claim that stealing a signature design to promote a different service is parody.

I just came across this issue recently after wondering why Gyrsur had -2 trust.

This is not an acceptable use of the trust system and I will be leaving him a counter-feedback until his negatives are removed.

- While trollish, his actions don't imply that he would be untrustworthy when it comes to conducting any sort of business on the forum.

- He's not wearing the signature anymore.

He's been here since 2012 and doesn't deserve to have his forum reputation tarnished in this manner.

[Csmiami]

I've never heard anyone say that before. What is your rationalization for that statement?

Incoming; I'll try to make it short, I'm not a fan of text walls unlike some other people around here...

If other DT members disagreed with BAC's rating, they could easily send mprep positive feedback to counter the rating.

Unfair negative tags are discussed in reputation and sometimes removed, sometimes are countered by an opposite tag or increased by a supporting tag.

I will always counter which I think is wrong -ve feedback, especially if it is wrong retaliatory feedback.

Even if I see were you are coming from with these quotes, I only see some users saying that the trust system is used that way, not that it's the right way to use it.

And I can't find the theymos quote for it but:

Theymos has said it's OK to do that if you strongly disagree with the left feedback.

Was that before or after the changes made to the trust system? I'm not on my computer and can't search for the date, but I consider that to be quite relevant, since there used to be no posibility of leaving neutrals.

My rationalization is that the negative was incorrect in the first place, so I am simply attempting to undo that. I don't engage in this practice often but this time I think it is warranted.

Ultimately my post here is more of a request that DarkStar_ and JollyGood consider re-evaluating their negative trust on Gyrsur. I'd rather attempt to resolve the issue this way rather than excluding them from my trust network as they of course contribute more good than bad overall. I'm also open to hearing arguments as to why the negative feedback should remain. As things stand, I just can't see how it relates to trustworthiness of trade activity on the forum.

I totally get that, and I agree with you regarding the need to talk some issues before taking any action; while others require action first and discussion afterwards. Was the red tag incorrect? It may be, according to the own trust page, red tags are for when "You think that trading with this person is high-risk" which I don't believe is the case here; but that's not what my post was about (OMG; was it offtopic?). Following that same guideline, counter-positives are also incorrect, because they are meant to be placed when "You think that this person is unlikely to scam anyone"; not when you see some other tags you deem incorrect are in place and want to counter them.

I've also checked LoyceV's trust guide, which I'm aware is a mere guideline, but a pretty good one; and the counter feedbacks are not considered in neither positive or negative use cases, so it's safe to assume they'd fall into the "Other" category, and thus neutral tag.

Of course, everything trust related is very subjective, but we shouldn't be using it the old way, just based on tradition. Neutral tags were introduced for a reason, and they should be used more often in these kind of situations.

[LoyceV]

Now with him deleting his posts from this or other threads where he seemed far from apologetic and enjoyed the attention being showered upon him

Let's see: https://loyce.club/archive/details/topic_5229417.html

I've also checked LoyceV's trust guide, which I'm aware is a mere guideline, but a pretty good one; and the counter feedbacks are not considered in neither positive or negative use cases, so it's safe to assume they'd fall into the "Other" category, and thus neutral tag.

For what it's worth: that's how I use it.