PSA: Covert agents manipulate, deceive, and DESTROY REPUTATIONS

[Ploni Almoni]

Topic title says it. Out of many articles that have been written about this subject in the years before and since, this is still one of the best:

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

Glenn Greenwald
February 24 2014, 11:25 p.m.

One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.

[...]

The broader point is that, far beyond hacktivists, these surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they’ve been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats.

[...]

Then there is the use of psychology and other social sciences to not only understand, but shape and control, how online activism and discourse unfolds.

[...]

The documents lay out theories of how humans interact with one another, particularly online, and then attempt to identify ways to influence the outcomes — or “game” it:

[...]

I encourage you to read the whole thing, then do more research on this important practical subject!




Why am I bringing this up? Obviously, the Reputation forum (and Meta) are mass-chaos lately. It's that... and more:

• I noticed that certain users have been recently targeted with increased intensity by trolls who seek to destroy their reputations. They are exactly the types of users one would expect to be targeted by intelligence agencies and other mass-manipulators: High-visibility, principled, doing a lot of work to contribute to the community (some of them doing it for free, with no paid signature), sterling reputations for honesty and integrity.
• I noticed an ongoing persistent smear campaign against ChipMixer: A privacy site, which is certainly not beloved by the types of entities discussed in the above article.

I had been growing suspicious that there was more to this recent trollfest than meets the eye. Then, I saw two of the most astute users on the forum, o_e_l_e_o and actmyname, point out to others that widespread assumptions about the identities of various sockpuppet accounts are probably incorrect. Note that neither o_e_l_e_o nor actmyname said what I am saying here! What they said was purely negative. It just tended to mesh with suspicions that I already had, and made me take a closer look...

I may discuss all this in more detail on this thread. Maybe. But let's start with that, and then some general practical advice.

Tips

DON'T	be paranoid. Paranoia paralyzes. Paranoia is a mind-killer. Mass-manipulators deliberately sow paranoia amongst those they wish to neutralize, and in particular, among political activists. There is a world of difference between prudence and paranoia. But on the other hand, "just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you..."
DON'T	make incautious accusations that your personal enemies are alphabet-soup agents. It makes your adversaries too powerful when you accidentally label some basement-dwelling idiot as an intelligence agency operative. It also makes you look like a fool.
DON'T	be stupid. Sorry, it's as simple as that... not simple at all. I could write a very long post with lots of advice, which few would read. If you care about your bitcoins, your reputation, and your sanity, you should probably read some guides (especially, activism guides) to how to avoid tricks and traps on the Internet.
DO	be aware that on any Internet forum dealing with hot issues, you will encounter parties with ulterior motives. Most of all the Bitcoin Forum, where money, power, and politics all intersect. I would assume the presence of everything and anything from intelligence agency plants, to garden-variety police informers, to paid shills for various large or small commercial interests... even for "nonprofits", maybe. Anybody with an agenda! Although this isn't the highest-traffic site (nothing compared to the major social media sites), its topic is Bitcoin; and it attracts a high concentration of intelligent people who have strong political opinions. Do the math.
DO	be objective. I mean, truly objective (not as that word is being abused around here lately). This is not a matter of "fairness," but self-protection. Evaluate and re-evaluate your own trust decisions based on an objective (re-)appraisal of those you trust, and those you distrust, without being blinded by personal feelings. This is not to be hardhearted, much less to show your virtue. It is to protect yourself from being emotionally manipulated and deceived.
DO	look to actions and results, not mere words. Many people talk about "freedom," "honesty," "community," etc. Do a person's actions consistently tend toward results that produce the stated goals? Or is that person a hypocrite who is playing you? Be wise also that this cuts both ways. Some people have personalities that make them unpopular for some reason or another, but they care about helping people and doing the right thing... they're just not people-pleasers flashing around flattering smiles. Any which way, look for concrete indicia of what a person's real goals are.
DON'T	get demoralized. There are good people out there. There are good people on this forum. You want to connect with them, while avoiding the ones who aren't good at all. If you forget the good people and get depressed by all the jerks, then who wins?
DO	remember that things are not what they seem. It's an old truism that on the Internet, anybody could be a dog. You have no idea who (or what) is behind a screen name. Don't get hung up on this... but do take things for what they're worth.
DON'T	be a dupe. I surmise that the professional manipulators get great mileage out of obsessive trolls, greedy bounty-chasers, and random idiots. It makes their job easier. If they want to make a wreck of the forum, they really don't need to do too much themselves... they just need to play to the weaknesses of people who have bad intentions anyway.
DO	keep doing Bitcoin!

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[Ploni Almoni]

Important Posts On This Thread

• (To be added.)

Local Rules

This is a thread made to fight back against a growing mess that I believe is probably professionally manipulated. Of course, I expect interference. I will be accordingly ruthless in moderating this thread. No apologies.

About Me

None of your business. I am anonymous.

If you support me, I encourage you to NOT merit my posts, green-trust me, or even talk to me too much. (If you have evidence or something important to say, please feel free to post it; but talk to the public and not to me, to the extent that can be done without looking awkward.) Obviously, people will be suspicious that this is an alt account. If you make it look like you're trying avoid violating merit/trust community standards, and even feel self-conscious about sockpuppet discussions ("talking to yourself"), then you can be part of my anonymity set!

If you support me, also feel free to "admit" to any accusations that I'm your alt. Not as a serious claim, but in an "I am Sparticus!" way. My identity is secured by a PGP key; and unless a digitally signed statement (or the revelation of a hash-committed preimage, etc.) says otherwise, only this account can speak for me. But I don't mind if people give a "sure, it's my account... so what?" sarcastic answer to this sort of question. If you don't want to say that, then just say that you neither confirm nor deny.

Sorry but not, I will not do PMs. Anybody who has evidence or tips is encouraged to send me an encrypted PM with that. But it's way too easy to leak personal info when drawn into a personal discussion. If you send me something good, presume my thanks. In almost no conceivable circumstance will I ever reply to a PM with this account... I prefer to keep discussions public. Thanks.

Real apologies if things are a bit messy. In some points, I try to copy styles of well known users; in others, I dumb myself down a bit. Then I change it around. Got to keep things interesting.

This is a metadata post. It will be edited.

[Ploni Almoni]

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[Ploni Almoni]

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[Ploni Almoni]

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[nutildah]

Is this a precursor to an April Fools joke?

Why am I bringing this up? Obviously, the Reputation forum (and Meta) are mass-chaos lately. It's that... and more:

• I noticed that certain users have been recently targeted with increased intensity by trolls who seek to destroy their reputations. They are exactly the types of users one would expect to be targeted by intelligence agencies and other mass-manipulators: High-visibility, principled, doing a lot of work to contribute to the community (some of them doing it for free, with no paid signature), sterling reputations for honesty and integrity.
• I noticed an ongoing persistent smear campaign against ChipMixer: A privacy site, which is certainly not beloved by the types of entities discussed in the above article.

I had been growing suspicious that there was more to this recent trollfest than meets the eye. Then, I saw two of the most astute users on the forum, o_e_l_e_o and actmyname, point out to others that widespread assumptions about the identities of various sockpuppet accounts are probably incorrect. Note that neither o_e_l_e_o nor actmyname said what I am saying here! What they said was purely negative. It just tended to mesh with suspicions that I already had, and made me take a closer look...

Sounds like you are in desperate need of your own advice:

DON'T	be paranoid.
DON'T	make incautious accusations that your personal enemies are alphabet-soup agents. It makes your adversaries too powerful when you accidentally label some basement-dwelling idiot as an intelligence agency operative. It also makes you look like a fool.

Or do you want us all to believe that cryptohunter and some disaffected ex-sig campaigners actually work for the CIA? 

Because you are not making any allegations with clarity and purposefully overcomplicating things, your pure motivation for posting is to create a dramatic effect and get people to pay attention to you, thus narrowing you down to a handful of users. Pretty boring, really.

[Lauda]

Stop getting offended by stuff and the problem partially resolves itself. It is very easy to create a sexism, racism, etc. dispute and you all play along like true sheep.

Is this a precursor to an April Fools joke?
- snip -
Or do you want us all to believe that cryptohunter and some disaffected ex-sig campaigners actually work for the CIA? 

I would strongly urge you to read literature on this topic if you think that this is not happening in most online communities that present a threat to the system. It is very very improbable that this has not been going on for many years here already.

About Me

None of your business. I am anonymous.

If you support me, I encourage you to NOT merit my posts, green-trust me, or even talk to me too much. (

Good, finally a possibly honest alt account.

[Last of the V8s]

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shy, but I lube up quite well

[hacker1001101001]

I guess, I can point out some of the possibly manipulative agents here, looks some what happening around.

[suchmoon]

I can't really agree with the claim that cleavages pull people apart. Depending on circumstances it might exhibit some positive pull.

[Balthazar]

Ploni Almoni is working for CIA.

[nutildah]

I would strongly urge you to read literature on this topic if you think that this is not happening in most online communities that present a threat to the system. It is very very improbable that this has not been going on for many years here already.

Sorry but the entire OP reeks of a bloated sense of self-importance and I'm 95% certain I know who is behind it. There's ways to go about presenting information in a way that doesn't demand attention, and this isn't one of them.

On one hand he's accusing trolls of being government agents, and on the other hand he's saying "don't be paranoid." Kind of a mixed message if you ask me.

I mean, the one CIA guy who was caught infiltrating 4chan (or was it 8chan, one of the chans...) was pretty dumb. So I suppose it could happen, and it could be found out, but cryptohunter isn't in on it. Neither are bad englished sockpuppets with an axe to grind with the Chipmixer campaign. Even if they were, I don't see what this thread is going to do to stop them. Telling people to be vigilant about a "threat" that cannot be quantifiably ascertained isn't very helpful.

Ploni Almoni is working for CIA.

As likely as any other scenario.

[Lauda]

Sorry but the entire OP reeks of a bloated sense of self-importance and I'm 95% certain I know who is behind it. There's ways to go about presenting information in a way that doesn't demand attention, and this isn't one of them.

What is wrong with the way it was presented? I can speculate who is behind it and reasonably guess, but the content is more important to me.

On one hand he's accusing trolls of being government agents, and on the other hand he's saying "don't be paranoid." Kind of a mixed message if you ask me.

It is very probable that some trolls are agents, but the supermajority of them are not and thinking otherwise is paranoid.

I mean, the one CIA guy who was caught infiltrating 4chan (or was it 8chan, one of the chans...) was pretty dumb. So I suppose it could happen, and it could be found out, but cryptohunter isn't in on it. Neither are bad englished sockpuppets with an axe to grind with the Chipmixer campaign. Even if they were, I don't see what this thread is going to do to stop them. Telling people to be vigilant about a "threat" that cannot be quantifiably ascertained isn't very helpful.

Good example. What kind of threat do people on 4chan present to the government and what kind of threat do people on this forum present? The invested resources against Bitcoin are considerably higher.

[DireWolfM14]

None of your business. I am anonymous.
~
If you support me, also feel free to "admit" to any accusations that I'm your alt. Not as a serious claim, but in an "I am Sparticus!" way.
~

What's with all the pompous, arrogant, self-righteous hypocrites popping up around here all of the sudden?  Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this trend?  Maybe nullius has inspired them to come out of the closet and show us "who they really are."

[eddie13]

Very interesting subject..
I have been interested in the subject of shills, fudders, sliders, glowbaiters, etc. for quite a while and I could see motive to sow discord around here and possibly also infiltrate positions of influence..

I'll read the rest of the linked article in the OP later and maybe add some interesting information I have come across on these tactics of such shill groups as shareblue and "russian bots"..

Their was a recent case of an agent being outed posting bait on 4chan, as nutildah mentioned, by releasing a report with screenshots of "you" in the ID of posts iirc..
It does happen and they do slip occasionally..

[Ploni Almoni]

Is this a precursor to an April Fools joke?

Are you accusing Edward Snowden and Glen Greenwald of having made an April Fool's joke?

There is a reason why I opened with documented facts. Not speculation or Internet navel-gazing.

Or do you want us all to believe that cryptohunter and some disaffected ex-sig campaigners actually work for the CIA? 

You omitted this:

I surmise that the professional manipulators get great mileage out of obsessive trolls, greedy bounty-chasers, and random idiots. It makes their job easier. If they want to make a wreck of the forum, they really don't need to do too much themselves... they just need to play to the weaknesses of people who have bad intentions anyway.

create a dramatic effect and get people to pay attention to you

There's ways to go about presenting information in a way that doesn't demand attention,

Why yes, because the best way to present important information is to avoid attention. Attention is the last thing I want for the message.

And I am obviously not trying to get pay attention to me. I am good enough at that otherwise, thank you very much. For the privilege of covering up my name so as to focus on the message, I paid >0.002 BTC to set up a throwaway account where I can post images... then deliberately mangled what I said with the style of at least 3 well-known users. I think this message is very important.

On one hand he's accusing trolls of being government agents, and on the other hand he's saying "don't be paranoid." Kind of a mixed message if you ask me.

Try striking a balance. See OP for suggestions how.

Because you are not making any allegations with clarity and purposefully overcomplicating things,

Intelligence (and counterintelligence) work, and also ordinary police-detective work, operate on the balance of probabilities in the face of intentional deception and concealment of evidence. I am very sorry that I could not deliver an extended lesson on that in a "TL;DR" megapost that nobody would read. I want to raise awareness, make people think. Foolish of me, perhaps; but I've got to try.

I mean, the one CIA guy who was caught infiltrating 4chan (or was it 8chan, one of the chans...) was pretty dumb. So I suppose it could happen, and it could be found out,

Their was a recent case of an agent being outed posting bait on 4chan, as nutildah mentioned, by releasing a report with screenshots of "you" in the ID of posts iirc..
It does happen and they do slip occasionally..

Yes, that happens; and the Snowden dump of the information in OP's quoted article also happened. But the evidence is rarely so clear-cut. Rather than tilting at windmills and searching for THE TRUTH, I suggest the practical, intentionally quite general advice in OP.

Ploni Almoni is working for CIA.

Maybe nullius has inspired them to come out of the closet

Great thread Nullius.

Kicking around on the Internets, I have been accused of being a CIA pro troll, an NSA hacker, an FBI agent, a Mossad agent, an FSB agent, and a few dozen others. Well, being accused of being Nullius and/or following him? Most evil of all, LOL! (Cue accusations of being other users whom I believe are being targeted...)

Stop looking for names, and take the advice in OP about words and actions, what people reveal about their goals, etc.

[TECSHARE]

Great thread Nullius.

Kicking around on the Internets, I have been accused of being a CIA pro troll, an NSA hacker, an FBI agent, a Mossad agent, an FSB agent, and a few dozen others. Well, being accused of being Nullius and/or following him? Most evil of all, LOL! (Cue accusations of being other users whom I believe are being targeted...)

Stop looking for names, and take the advice in OP about words and actions, what people reveal about their goals, etc.

Nullius being targeted? Now I know it is you

-Long winded: CHECK
-Pedantic: CHECK
-Fondness for excessive formatting: CHECK
-Fondness for self aggrandizing historical references: CHECK
-Casting Nullius as a target: CHECK
-Not so subtle digs about objective standards: CHECK
-Familiar with techniques to manufacture consensus: CHECK
-Presenting the role of being righteous while demonstrating motives of a perp: CHECK

All that is missing is a Latin lecture.

[eddie13]

All that is missing is a Latin lecture.

Well, he just attempted to give me a lecture on hebrew.. Does that count?

Also tried baiting me into a debate about Jews in a topic about censorship, so maybe he is the agent and this op is to sow exactly the paranoia it describes...

Spidey sense has a slight tingle of projection..
Oh shit it’s working.. Now I’m paranoid..

[TECSHARE]

All that is missing is a Latin lecture.

Well, he just attempted to give me a lecture on hebrew.. Does that count?

Also tried baiting me into a debate about Jews in a topic about censorship, so maybe he is the agent and this op is to sow exactly the paranoia it describes...

Spidey sense has a slight tingle of projection..
Oh shit it’s working.. Now I’m paranoid..

That is just your spidey sense.

[bonesjonesreturns]

I think this guy is on to something.

Please provide examples.

1. Which member has their reputation been destroyed?

Let's use this thread to examine this web of lies and deceit they have tried to cast over our eyes.

Or do you mean whistle blowing on confirmed scammers and their double standards hypocritical mates?

2. I want to avoid these agents. Can you point some out?

I want to grill them publicly and see if they crack or run away now? These evil agents that hate chipmixer?

Or may be these people are sick of dark star sponsoring a bunch of greedy, self interested scammer supporters?
They may think darkstar should stop the nepotism to his mates and rotate the chip mixer spots to all good posters that have no scammer supporting or trust abusing in the histories ?


The best way to tell if this is nullius. 

1. Long flowery pretentious screed that is desperate for you to notice how smart and knowledgeable they are.

2. Their entire wall of waffle falls to pieces one you apply even mild scrutiny or pressure.


Let's see if it is nully or not.