The attack surface is smaller as he has broken up a single point of production, where as BTCC keys were generated in 1 location.
And he is still the point of failure... as it's still trusting Bobby and his processes/decisions...same as BTCC
Sorry, but you are wrong. The attack surface is not smaller. Before it was 1 man taking complete ownership of the process and staking his reputation on it. Not only do you now have to trust Bobby, but you have to trust the two "facilities" he's contracting the work out to. It's not like it was with BTCC where Bobby had complete control of the keys. There are now two additional systems in play here generating media using the keys and their passphrases and using people and computers to do it. You have to trust that the people behind the facilities won't collude, won't be compromised by an outside party and that they will destroy every trace of the data they handled when the job is done. I'm surprised Bobby even went this direction.
Hi Hellot.
You're obviously a very well respected member of this collectibles community on BitcoinTalk forum. And thus your comments carry a lot of weight in people eyes. For that reason, I am compelled to respond in length, to clear up the confusion and potential misunderstanding. It may not have been your intent, but your comments are creating FUD here (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt), so I will clear things up for everyone.
First of all, I know you to be a long-time member of this community, as I recall you were my customer of my BTCC Mint products. Thank you for support us during those years from 2016-2018, and for your continued recognition of the BTCC Mint products in the secondhand market in the subsequent years. It's good to have loyal customers and fans, and I feel honored.
That said, I don't think I know you personally, and I don't recall knowing your background. If we've happen to have already met in person, then my apologies in advance, for not making the connection between your face and your username here.
As a seasoned CoinMaker, I do have quite some extensive experience making physical bitcoin collectibles and protecting users' private keys. I've done it professionally for 3 years, from 2016 to 2018, and I personally built the BTCC Mint business, and made over 22,000 coin/bars/chips, containing over 8,700 BTC in value. I take pride in having done a good job, with zero safety lapses and security issues. In essence, BTCC Mint coins have never been hacked or "swept", and they never will in the future -- you have my word here. And the fact that people found my BTCC Mint products to be innovative and high quality; that's just a cherry on top.
In comparison, I dare assume that you probably do NOT have this level of CoinMaker experience as compared to me. If I am mistaken, and that you have legitimate CoinMaker experience rivaling my background, then please share, and I would gladly tip my hat to you.
As the CoinMaker for BTCC Mint, I indeed was fully involved for every step of the private keys under each and every coin/bar/chip. This has been elaborately documented over the years, as I've made many postings here explaining the process, and how I took operational security seriously, to prevent any hacking, theft, and sweeping of coins. Even though I was the CoinMaker and I personally generated all of the private keys (using offline computers and software), the manufacturing process did indeed involve other people -- namely my trusted staff in the BTCC Mint team. (I hope you did NOT wrongly assume that I personally and single-handedly created, packed, and shipped all 22,000+ coins/bars/chips.) For the critical steps, where the private keys are "exposed to air", I only involved the most trusted of my team members, and I was practically always there to supervise the process and procedures. And as history will prove itself over time, there were no rogue employees making surreptitious recordings and photographs of the private keys.
So technically speaking, if there were dishonest employees, thieves, or a corrupt CoinMaker, the BTCC Mint coins would end up not being safe at all, and would have likely already have been swept and hacked by now. The value of all BTCC Mint products, at over 8,700 bitcoins, would exceed USD $60 million today, and at the peak of Bitcoin in late 2017, that's close to $200 million (including all fork coin values).
At Ballet, through much brainstorming, research & development, we have come up with an even BETTER solution that what the market offers: the 2-factor private key approach to physical bitcoins, AND with a multicurrency solution. This has NEVER been done before, and we have actually filed multiple US patents on this invention. (Our first patent, U.S. Pat. 10,554,401, was issued just two months ago, on February 4, 2020.) The main point is that now, we are able to make physical bitcoin collectibles, using a 2-factor private key, where the private key components can be made in 2 geographically separate facilities, by two different sets of personnel, to make the process and resulting physical bitcoins even SAFER than before.
As an veteran CoinMaker and expert in this field (I've been in Bitcoin for 9 years now, since early 2011), I can and will attest that generally speaking, a two-factor private key is SAFER than a single-factor private key solution for physical bitcoins.
I am the Founder and CEO of Ballet, and I invented this Two-Factor Key Generation (2FKG) approach to making physical bitcoin wallets, with the dual manufacturing location aspect. I created this process to improve on an already great process at BTCC Mint. Without a doubt, I can tell you that our new 2FKG products are at the least, at the same highest safely level as done compared to BTCC Mint. You have my word here.
And to further address your comments:
Not only do you now have to trust Bobby, but you have to trust the two "facilities" he's contracting the work out to.
The two facilities you're referring to are both at my company. My USA company is called Ballet Global Inc. It's a Delaware Corporation, headquartered in Las Vegas, NV, where we have our manufacturing, packaging, and logistics facility. The other facility is in Shanghai China, where I run the company Shanghai Mintery Networks Limited, a wholly foreign-owned company setup in China, that is 100% owned by Ballet Global Inc. These two facilities you're referring to, are NOT third party contracting facilities the likes of FoxConn, etc. In other words, we do NOT contract out our manufacturing. We do all of the critical steps in-house, done by our own employees (and not done by some nameless / faceless factory worker). As I'm only one person, for obvious reasons I can only be at one location at any one time, but rest assured: I have personally designed the manufacturing process for both of these locations, and I am personally involved with all of the critical steps at each of these two facilities.
Hellot, since we have not met in person, and I have not give you the tour or a detailed description of the manufacturing process at Ballet, I urge you to please do not spread any unsubstantiated rumors and FUD about Ballet. Like I have already offered several others on this forum, I openly invite you to visit both facilities and learn about our process first hand, so you can get a better and strong understanding of why I truly believe that Ballet's solution is top-notch.
It's not like it was with BTCC where Bobby had complete control of the keys.
There is no such thing as having complete control of the private keys, unless literally, I did everything from start to finish. This did NOT happen at BTCC Mint, as I did involve my select trusted employees for several of the critical steps where the private key was "exposed to air". (And besides, even Mike Caldwell openly admits that he got help from others in making his Casascius coins.)
There are now two additional systems in play here generating media using the keys and their passphrases and using people and computers to do it.
Yes, correct, but like I've said earlier: I personally designed and oversee all of that process, and I still am the single person doing the key generation at both locations, running the program, adding human entropy, and generating the BIP38 passphrases (in Las Vegas), and generating the Encrypted Private Keys (in Shanghai). Without revealing too many of our trade secrets here, I can assure you that I'm directly involved at each of the critical steps, such that I can monitor that no one else is able to surreptitiously secretly record down the private key components.
You have to trust that the people behind the facilities won't collude, won't be compromised by an outside party and that they will destroy every trace of the data they handled when the job is done.
Again, I disagree with your logic here.
As told before, my whole staff of the most trusted key personnel at BTCC Mint is now with me here at Ballet. The people involved in the most critical procedures at Ballet, are the exact same people who helped me while at BTCC Mint.
Your theory that my staff in Ballet's Shanghai office can secretly collude with the Ballet staff in the Las Vegas office is preposterous. My staff are well compensated, have equity stock ownership in the company, and are considered founding team members. If they can steal the private keys at Ballet through collusion, then by your logic, they could have just stolen the private keys while at BTCC all WITHOUT doing ANY collusion.
My conclusion is simple, and this is an EXPERT opinion:
The attach surface vector is MUCH smaller now at Ballet, through the use of two-factor private keys, made at two different facilities around the world.
I'm surprised Bobby even went this direction.
Well, all I can say is that you made that judgement without knowing me, without having met me in person, and without truly understanding the process at Ballet.
Now that I've given you a deeper explanation, I hope I've changed your mind.
We have extensive operational procedures at Ballet, involving many laborious steps, to make private key security of the utmost importance. This is all possible because of my 3+ years of CoinMaker experience, one of the most trusted in our space.
Thank you all for reading this long post. I felt compelled to write this extensive post as I don't want the misinformation to taint the image and reputation of Ballet. Time will prove us right, and that's how we will continue to build our reputation.
thanks,
Bobby
