Would you spend BTC daily in brick and mortar stores?

[phaddie]

  Hey guys,

  I am doing a project for school and I am trying to determine how many people there are walking around ready and willing to use BTC for some of their everyday expenses.  For instance if you could pay at restaurants, markets, coffee shops, etc with BTC is that something that would be interesting to you?  Please feel free to leave comments justifying your vote as well.  I am looking to find out about people in Canada mainly but interested to hear what the world has to say.

  Also comment here if you know of services that offer this is a option.

  Phad.

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[CurbsideProphet]

  Hey guys,

  I am doing a project for school and I am trying to determine how many people there are walking around ready and willing to use BTC for some of their everyday expenses.  For instance if you could pay at restaurants, markets, coffee shops, etc with BTC is that something that would be interesting to you?  Please feel free to leave comments justifying your vote as well.  I am looking to find out about people in Canada mainly but interested to hear what the world has to say.

  Also comment here if you know of services that offer this is a option.

  Phad.

Sure.  I see it as no different that paying with cash except it has added convenience.  I'm not in Canada though but I will say that I think it's probably a bigger advantage for Canadians.  There's nothing I hate more than those damn loonie and toonie coins you have, as a guy I don't want 2 pounds of change in my wallet.

[Bonam]

I'd definitely use it. Why not? It'd be fun, it's another payment method. The sooner more everyday businesses take BTC in payment, the sooner it will stabilize and become more viable as an actual currency, not just an investment.

[ryanmnercer]

Yes I would.

[boumalo]

If fiat currencies are going down and there is a huge economic crisis; having BTC will be very useful

People will start using them for everything with gold, silver and barter

We are supposed to be in a recovery (we're not) so Gold and BTC are not going up but they will when the USD plunges

[Dr.Zaius]

Why would people choose to spend a better form of money(bitcoin) vs a worse form of money(fiat) given the choice?

People will always get rid of the least desirable thing they hold.

The only spenders of bitcoin will be those earning their incomes in it. ie miners, because it's easier to spend directly then converting into fiat when a merchant accepts btc.

Bitcoiners have a difficult time grasping real life economic concepts.

It is basically an interpretation of Gresham's law.

[Twilight_Sparkle]

Why would people choose to spend a better form of money(bitcoin) vs a worse form of money(fiat) given the choice?

People will always get rid of the least desirable thing they hold.

I myself get rid of the worse form of money....by buying bitcoin. I then use the bitcoin to buy things. How else do you think places like overstock see such "large" amounts of purchases via bitcoin? Sure its a little inconvenient, but that is a temporary problem. Ideas that are great in theory, often do not work in reality. If it does not happen in reality, maby you need to change your idea to something that better represents truth? People do not always get rid of the least desirable thing, or are willing to spend bitcoin in order to help bitcoin, even if it is not in their "best" interest.

[firestone411]

I don't know about daily.

[Dr.Zaius]

Why would people choose to spend a better form of money(bitcoin) vs a worse form of money(fiat) given the choice?

People will always get rid of the least desirable thing they hold.

I myself get rid of the worse form of money....by buying bitcoin. I then use the bitcoin to buy things. How else do you think places like overstock see such "large" amounts of purchases via bitcoin? Sure its a little inconvenient, but that is a temporary problem. Ideas that are great in theory, often do not work in reality. If it does not happen in reality, maby you need to change your idea to something that better represents truth? People do not always get rid of the least desirable thing, or are willing to spend bitcoin in order to help bitcoin, even if it is not in their "best" interest.

I can see you aren't very bright. Tell me how does buying bitcoin for USD and then selling it again for USD via bitpay on Overstock.com, help bitcoin? In that entire process you've also paid fees to exchange + bid/ask slippage. You are only "helping" exchangers.

And no overstock.com does not see large amounts of purchases. They've done what 1million in 6 weeks? That is less then what is traded on bad days on some of the smaller exchanges. It is also miners that are shopping there, you know cashing out the 3600BTC they create out of thin air on a daily basis. Of course a few diehards such as yourself buying btc just for the sake of selling it again.

[ryanmnercer]

I can see you aren't very bright. Tell me how does buying bitcoin for USD and then selling it again for USD via bitpay on Overstock.com, help bitcoin? In that entire process you've also paid fees to exchange + bid/ask slippage. You are only "helping" exchangers.

And no overstock.com does not see large amounts of purchases. They've done what 1million in 6 weeks? That is less then what is traded on bad days on some of the smaller exchanges. It is also miners that are shopping there, and of course a few idiots such as yourself buying btc just for the sake of selling it again.

They are seeing 20-30k USD a day worth of bitcoin. That's impressive, whether you want to admit it or not.

[5thStreetResearch]

its still too volatile too hold for day to day use for me, would rather just trade it and use USD in stores

[skilo]

I probably would sometimes but i prefer cash back credit cards, I have 2 really good ones right now that basically pay me for using them, I just pay off the balance every month so it's like a debit card really.

Bitcoin is better for online shopping exspecially for sellers because of the no charge back nature of bitcoin, Bitpay has really made it so merchants can accept Bitcoin with ease now, It's too bad most people still are not tech savvy enough to know how to use it or implement it.

[Twilight_Sparkle]

Why would people choose to spend a better form of money(bitcoin) vs a worse form of money(fiat) given the choice?

People will always get rid of the least desirable thing they hold.

I myself get rid of the worse form of money....by buying bitcoin. I then use the bitcoin to buy things. How else do you think places like overstock see such "large" amounts of purchases via bitcoin? Sure its a little inconvenient, but that is a temporary problem. Ideas that are great in theory, often do not work in reality. If it does not happen in reality, maby you need to change your idea to something that better represents truth? People do not always get rid of the least desirable thing, or are willing to spend bitcoin in order to help bitcoin, even if it is not in their "best" interest.

I can see you aren't very bright. Tell me how does buying bitcoin for USD and then selling it again for USD via bitpay on Overstock.com, help bitcoin? In that entire process you've also paid fees to exchange + bid/ask slippage. You are only "helping" exchangers.

And no overstock.com does not see large amounts of purchases. They've done what 1million in 6 weeks? That is less then what is traded on bad days on some of the smaller exchanges. It is also miners that are shopping there, you know cashing out the 3600BTC they create out of thin air on a daily basis. Of course a few diehards such as yourself buying btc just for the sake of selling it again.

Really? You do not know how merchant adoption helps bitcoin? Seriously, spend 2-3 minutes thinking about it, you might be able to find out why yourself. I don't care if they transfer immediately to usd(or whatever local fiat), and never touch bitcoins themselves. When more and more people/businesses start accepting bitcoin, eventually holding bitcoins starts to sound desirable.

exchange fees? If you think you don't pay for credit card fees(which get transfered to everyone in higher prices), or that your not paying for inflation, well.......

finally, I admit that overstock does not receive large amounts in bitcoin relative to their size, re-read my post, notice the quotes around large? But it is enough to make it worth their effort. I also have no idea where to begin on that train wreck of the miner sentence that you wrote. Most mining profit is used to get back the cost of the mining rigs, and what proof do you have of the shopping part? (hint:none)

[softron]

Sure many bitcoiners would buy stuff with btc. You just have to be careful u dont get in a 'no confirmation' issue.

[Lethn]

I would probably spend about the same in a Bitcoin store but I'd be a lot happier about doing it, nothing worse than spending money you know is going to be devalued several times after you've handed it over.

[medUSA]

I wouldn't want to tumble around on my phone, enter the pin, scan and so on... to buy a pint of milk, and what if I am actually on the phone? I drop the call to pay?

I would happily use bitcoin to order online though

[ryanmnercer]

I wouldn't want to tumble around on my phone, enter the pin, scan and so on... to buy a pint of milk, and what if I am actually on the phone? I drop the call to pay?

I would happily use bitcoin to order online though

Why would you have to hang up a call, just say "hang on one second"... actually, why are you talking on your phone while shopping... seriously everyone does NOT want to hear half of your conversation, I promise.

[medUSA]

actually, why are you talking on your phone while shopping...

Friends and family do tend to call you at most inappropriate times, wouldn't you agree? 

[ryanmnercer]

Friends and family do tend to call you at most inappropriate times, wouldn't you agree? 

I don't answer my phone in public, it's bad opsec on multiple levels and rude to those around you.

[BtcOwner]

if it gonna to be possible to pay with bitcoin everywhere yes i would like to do it!

[master-P]

It depends on their policies regarding BTC payments. Most stores here have a policy of refunding payments in the same form so cash gets refunded with cash, debit with debit, CC with CC. Also, how long I'd have to wait after making the payment. I'm not going to attend around for a few minutes waiting for a payment to go through unless it's something of substantial value.

[phaddie]

It depends on their policies regarding BTC payments. Most stores here have a policy of refunding payments in the same form so cash gets refunded with cash, debit with debit, CC with CC. Also, how long I'd have to wait after making the payment. I'm not going to attend around for a few minutes waiting for a payment to go through unless it's something of substantial value.

I think this is the key issue.  If you went into a coffee shop and had to wait even for 2 confirmations this entire scenario becomes almost silly.  I would love to see stats on the amount of transactions under .01 BTC that were never confirmed after reaching the nodes (so before 1 confirmation).

Phad.

[phaddie]

Why would people choose to spend a better form of money(bitcoin) vs a worse form of money(fiat) given the choice?

People will always get rid of the least desirable thing they hold.

The only spenders of bitcoin will be those earning their incomes in it. ie miners, because it's easier to spend directly then converting into fiat when a merchant accepts btc.

Bitcoiners have a difficult time grasping real life economic concepts.

It is basically an interpretation of Gresham's law.

  This is another good point (well some of it) and basically the point of my project.  I want to determine who/how many are actually walking around with BTC and willing to use it to purchase and who/how many are just using BTC as a form of investment or wealth management. 

 I think for sure miners would like this, eliminate the exchange and just get goods, but someone who has large amount of BTC and is using it to trade and made money would more than likely not have any interest is spending small amount of dinner, milk, or diapers.

  Phad.

[ryanmnercer]

I think this is the key issue.  If you went into a coffee shop and had to wait even for 2 confirmations this entire scenario becomes almost silly.  I would love to see stats on the amount of transactions under .01 BTC that were never confirmed after reaching the nodes (so before 1 confirmation).

Phad.

As BTC becomes more widely accepted though, in theory we should see a lot more nodes popping up... maybe even larger retail stores as well as service providers (stuff like bips and bitpay putting ones up regionally), you'd most likely get other nodes seeing the transaction a lot faster... especially if there are any good breakthroughs in ASICS (more processing power, less energy use) in the near future.

[RodeoX]

I would, and I try to.

Going out to a local restaurant tonight and paying in bitcoin.

[Predatorian]

Why not? If payment with btc will be acceptable i would to use that everywhere.
I hope i future Bitcoin will be more famous and known.

[glendall]

Not so much for me, anytime soon I think.  For the following reasons:

1) I have a hard time spending bitcoin on most 'normal' things I buy. To me bitcoin is much more precious than funny money fiat so I have the tendency to save the bitcoin and spend the cash.

2) Purchasing stuff online with bitcoin is very convenient for me but I haven't set up any sort of phone wallet or anything so cash would be easier for me to use for smaller purchases.

[toxique]

No. A brick and mortar store are not the best way to spend my BTC

[phaddie]

No. A brick and mortar store are not the best way to spend my BTC

  Can you expand on this a bit?  Is it just reduced value?  Or the chance the have to pay taxes?

[aminorex]

I want to determine who/how many are actually walking around with BTC and willing to use it to purchase and who/how many are just using BTC as a form of investment or wealth management. 

I have all of my wealth in bitcoin-related interests.  I keep a couple of coins on my phone at all times, for spending.

someone who has large amount of BTC and is using it to trade and made money would more than likely not have any interest is spending small amount of dinner, milk, or diapers.

It seems obvious to me that, because I hold a substantial amount of bitcoin, therefore it is very strongly in my personal interest to use bitcoin for as many purchases as possible.  The alternative is to use fiat, which only diminishes the value of my bitcoin.  Why would any holder of bitcoin think otherwise?

[aminorex]

Not so much for me, anytime soon I think.  For the following reasons:

1) I have a hard time spending bitcoin on most 'normal' things I buy. To me bitcoin is much more precious than funny money fiat so I have the tendency to save the bitcoin and spend the cash.

2) Purchasing stuff online with bitcoin is very convenient for me but I haven't set up any sort of phone wallet or anything so cash would be easier for me to use for smaller purchases.

If you were rationally self-interested, you would convert your cash to bitcoin before spending.  In an uptrending market you would do it upon receipt.  In a downtrending market you would do it immediately before spend.

[Bonam]

You just need the right bitcoin payment methods available. Someone needs to make a card that works just like a credit/debit card, that you can just swipe through normal card readers, and will transfer BTC from your account to the merchant's account. Of course it'd have to wait for the blockchain confirmations, but if the card was widespread, there would be an implicit assumption by both sides that the confirmations would happen, and there would not be any actual need to wait for them to happen for both parties to consider the transaction concluded.

[boumalo]

You just need the right bitcoin payment methods available. Someone needs to make a card that works just like a credit/debit card, that you can just swipe through normal card readers, and will transfer BTC from your account to the merchant's account. Of course it'd have to wait for the blockchain confirmations, but if the card was widespread, there would be an implicit assumption by both sides that the confirmations would happen, and there would not be any actual need to wait for them to happen for both parties to consider the transaction concluded.

When you pay with your android phone it isn't very complicated, it is even more simple than paying with a plastic card and you don't have to wait for any confirmation when you are paying for a beer because double spending is not that easy to do so the merchant takes the risk

[RodeoX]

Hey, there is a new place in here in Madison Wisconsin that takes BTC. It's called Bandung restaurant and the food is really good. They also have a bar, and there was some crazy band playing traditional Asian instruments. Best of all the prices are low. My wife and I ate for $35. I had my weapon on, so that price is without alcoholic drinks.  But we will certainly be back!
Here is their FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/bandungindonesianrestaurant

[teukon]

  I am doing a project for school and I am trying to determine how many people there are walking around ready and willing to use BTC for some of their everyday expenses.

Be sure to acknowledge sample bias when you report the results of this poll.

[murraypaul]

No, because it offers me no benefit over the existing combination of cash, debit card and credit card.

[BitOnyx]

First of all, they would use it for online services, not restaurant (unless delivery).

[boumalo]

No, because it offers me no benefit over the existing combination of cash, debit card and credit card.

It offers you lower fees and it could work anywhere in the world with the same currency BTC

A currency that doesn't lose its value over time and a currency that is not manipulated

[murraypaul]

No, because it offers me no benefit over the existing combination of cash, debit card and credit card.

It offers you lower fees and it could work anywhere in the world with the same currency BTC.

Nowhere I shop charges different fees depending on whether I use cash, debit or credit card.
So I see no reason to think that a Bitcoin payment would be cheaper than those.
I can use my debit and credit cards anywhere in the world, and being in BTC would only be useful if I was being paid in BTC. Otherwise I have to encur exchange fees to go from fiat->BTC, just as I would from fiat1->fiat2. No advantage there.

[boumalo]

No, because it offers me no benefit over the existing combination of cash, debit card and credit card.

It offers you lower fees and it could work anywhere in the world with the same currency BTC.

Nowhere I shop charges different fees depending on whether I use cash, debit or credit card.
So I see no reason to think that a Bitcoin payment would be cheaper than those.
I can use my debit and credit cards anywhere in the world, and being in BTC would only be useful if I was being paid in BTC. Otherwise I have to encur exchange fees to go from fiat->BTC, just as I would from fiat1->fiat2. No advantage there.

You could be paid in BTC or Gold if most fiat disappear and the merchants pay huge fees to use debit and credit card systems, so you pay them indirectly when you buy

[murraypaul]

You could be paid in BTC or Gold if most fiat disappear

The question was 'Would you spend BTC daily in brick and mortar stores", not "Would you spend BTC daily in brick and mortar stores in an alternate universe where most fiat currencies have disappeared".

and the merchants pay huge fees to use debit and credit card systems, so you pay them indirectly when you buy

But I pay the same price regardless of what payment method I use, so the rational choice is to pay by credit card, and get:
a) an interest free loan
b) increased consumer protection
c) cash back

If (in the alternate universe) paying by BTC meant paying less, it might be worth doing. But paying by cash or debit card now doesn't mean paying less, so I don't see why it would.

[skilo]

You should add "Occasionally" to your poll to make the results more accurate.

[Pente]

I believe the future of cryptocurrency will mirror the current situation with ecurrency in Kenya.

Most people under the age of 40 in Kenya are using mpesa. Mpesa is sent via phone between family members & friends, it is used to pay the electric bill using small console located in most households. Many employers use it to pay employees. Taxi drivers accept it. There is bill to force bus drivers & passengers to use it.

I was with my youngest wife and she asked to get a coke. I pointed out that neither one of us brought any money. She said "hakuna matata" which basically means "no problem", stopped at the next store with a mpesa sign, went in for a couple minutes, then came out with 500 shillings (about $6.25).

There are mpesa signs everywhere. About 2 for every block per main street. There are definitely more mpesa signs than ATM machines. Exchanging mpesa for fiat is quick and easy.

If you met a stranger and he had a cellphone, you just need his phone number to send him mpesa. A regular phone works with mpesa. To send bitcoins, you really need an Android, and I would guess that only about 1 in 3 young Kenyans have an Android phone.

The point being, I don't expect Bitcoin to replace fiat. Cryptos may force governments to stop inflating fiat so much though and that would be a good thing.

BTW, I do expect Bitcoin to quickly replace Mpesa in Kenya. Mpesa is centralized, so the government is able to tax it and they keep raising the rates. Kenyans need something better.