why hoarding Smerits?

[CryCrptoCry]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits. I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits. IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum, various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up. Existing lower rank members are also feeling 'hit the wall' kind of situation and not putting enough efforts in their posts. There has to be some way to address this issue. IMHO merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already. But since we have adopted this system I urge all established members of this forum ( who have say in the matter) to look for possible solutions for speeding up the "merit giving system", or look for the alternatives.
One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user. This will lead to the change in minimum numbers of merit requires for jr member and members but I am sure that will speed up the much needed change.

[AB de Royse777]

Just be a community individual and spend more time in the forum, engage in conversations, share ideas, learn bitcoin, share your bitcoin experience - merit will follow. Raking up is a long journey.

I do not know who  hoards merit but I am always out of it and there are many users like me who has the same lack of smerits to give.

[Apocollapse]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits.

Yeah, many of they're the user of airdropped merit. There are so many abusing merit in this forum, people can meriting a spam post like only emoticon and an alphabet. You can look in my report here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5239630.0

One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user. This will lead to the change in minimum numbers of merit requires for jr member and members but I am sure that will speed up the much needed change.

I disagree, it's fine to give 50 merit on useful and informative post. Giving 50 merit is only to help the user rank up.

IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum, various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up.

Why you should think other users problem? it's their choice if they want stay or not. We can't blame merit system is make they migrating to other forums, it's clear they're only shitpost and spammer. Shitpost and spammer don't deserve any merit.

[CryCrptoCry]

Just be a community individual and spend more time in the forum, engage in conversations, share ideas, learn bitcoin, share your bitcoin experience - merit will follow. Raking up is a long journey.

I do not know who  hoards merit but I am always out of it and there are many users like me who has the same lack of smerits to give.

Please tell me how many merits you have received for  your quality posting, apart from the initial airdrop ?

[Csmiami]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits. I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits. IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum.

Users are allowed to spend their smerit in whichever post they want; if they don't see something worth meriting, you can't force them to do so. Merit selling is ilegal in this forum, so if a user is caught doing so, that user will be banned (if I recall the rules correctly). The quality of the forum hasn't decayed, it did rather improve when merit system was implemented

Existing lower rank members are also feeling 'hit the wall' kind of situation and not putting enough efforts in their posts

And what do they expect if "they don't put enough effort in their posts"?

various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up

I'm glad to hear that, less spammers around

There has to a some way to address this issue.

Yes, there is an issue, but it has nothing to do with the forum; but with the users of it. The point of using a forum is to share ideas, get to know people interested in the same things you are, and to learn. Users shouldn't join a forum only to rank up.

IMHO merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already.

Implementing the merit system was something necessary; and this has been already discussed in thousands of threads. Apart from that, you are mixing two systems with different aims; trust system lets us know whether a user is to be trusted (while trading), it has nothing to do with spam or quality content. Merit system, on the other hand, is designed to reward users posting informative, and quality posts.

[CryCrptoCry]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits. I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits. IMHO all this is leading to the over all quality decay of this prestigious forum.

Users are allowed to spend their smerit in whichever post they want; if they don't see something worth meriting, you can't force them to do so. Merit selling is ilegal in this forum, so if a user is caught doing so, that user will be banned (if I recall the rules correctly). The quality of the forum hasn't decayed, it did rather improve when merit system was implemented

Existing lower rank members are also feeling 'hit the wall' kind of situation and not putting enough efforts in their posts

And what do they expect if "they don't put enough effort in their posts"?

various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up

I'm glad to hear that, less spammers around

There has to a some way to address this issue.

Yes, there is an issue, but it has nothing to do with the forum; but with the users of it. The point of using a forum is to share ideas, get to know people interested in the same things you are, and to learn. Users shouldn't join a forum only to rank up.

IMHO merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already.

Implementing the merit system was something necessary; and this has been already discussed in thousands of threads. Apart from that, you are mixing two systems with different aims; trust system lets us know whether a user is to be trusted (while trading), it has nothing to do with spam or quality content. Merit system, on the other hand, is designed to reward users posting informative, and quality posts.

So you assumed that most of the new members are spammers and only existing members can improve the quality of this forum. One can receive negative trust for spamming and farming account, which is  also a task of trust system. Well we all have perspectives and we agree to disagree.

[Coyster]

The merit sources are in the forum for complaints like this, users truly hoard their smerits and only theymos can do something about that(in the future as he said), but AFAIK merit sources do not hoard their smerits, they even run shut of smerits, spending their own "personal" smerits and few times starting threads seeking a refill from theymos. That gusto alone shows how willing they are to give out smerits and they are more than a handful on the forum.

If you know cases of merit selling, start a thread in reputation board. There is no visible decay on the forum and if users are leaving for other forums because they fail to rank up, then bye to them.

The merit system is different from the trust system, the merit system makes sure only good posters rank up, while the trust system is about trustworthiness or the opposite and finally making it 5 minimum smerits to be sent or received would be too easy and merit buyers can easily work their way around it without being caught; for example if your suggestion is implemented a user who's merited 20 different times is already up to 100 merits and a full member, too easy.

[UserU]

I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits.

Did you report those threads? If you don't, you won't see any action taken by the mods unless they happen to come across them.

[AB de Royse777]

Please tell me how many merits you have received for  your quality posting, apart from the initial airdrop ?

I think instead of explaining you and giving your the numbers I should give you some reference reading which will help you to find the answers by yourself.

Find out when merit and new rank requirements introduced: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0

Here is the problem we have: We have less patience to learn stuffs. I thought you had a legit reason to create this topic but turns out your topic is another one of those topics that complains and show frustrations, blame others, instead of genuinely receiving information. I am out buddy.

[Csmiami]

So you assumed that most of the new members are spammers and only existing members can improve the quality of this forum.

I did most definately not say that. We all were new to Bitcoin at a given time, and we've all learned different things here (or at least I hope that). The problem is that "new" people see merit as a goal, rather than a reward. And why do they see it as a goal? Most of them just want to participate in bounties. This reached some extreme levels during the 2017-8 bull run, and thus, the merit system was pretty much necessary.

If a user joins the forum for the "good" reasons (learn, interact with people), that user will most likely care not about getting merits. Interestingly enough, the moment you stop caring about getting merited is the moment you will start recieving most merits.

One can receive negative trust for spamming and farming account, which is  also a task of trust system. Well we all have perspectives and we agree to disagree.

Trust system has been used poorly by some people, but that's not the point here.

[CryCrptoCry]

I disagree, it's fine to give 50 merit on useful and informative post. Giving 50 merit is only to help the user rank up.
[/quote]

I have said about the minimum not the maximum Smerit giving.

[LoyceV]

You've got it all wrong Why are users not creating better posts, so I can get rid of my last 400+ sMerit?

IMHO merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already.

Theymos doesn't want shitposters to be tagged. Merit was introduced right after some users started tagging massive amounts of shitposters.

One solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user.

That's not very different from lowering the Merit requirements. It has been suggested many times, and it didn't happen.

I'll make you a deal though: show me your 5 best posts, and if I agree they're worth reading, I'll Merit them. This offer is valid for CryCrptoCry only, you can either post it here (and quote me or mention LoyceV), or PM me (refer to this post if you wait a long time, so I don't dismiss it as spam).

[Apocollapse]

I disagree, it's fine to give 50 merit on useful and informative post. Giving 50 merit is only to help the user rank up.

I have said about the minimum not the maximum Smerit giving.

Sorry my bad, lol it's will be bad problem.
If user must give multiple 5 merit, it should be also multiple 5 on merit requirement on each rank.

Rank	Required activity	Required merit
Brand new	0	0
Newbie	1	0
Jr Member	30	5
Member	60	50
Full Member	120	500
Sr. Member	240	1250
Hero Member	480	2500
Legendary	Random in the range 775-1030	5000

Current merit system is fine, no need to modify.

[CryCrptoCry]

I disagree, it's fine to give 50 merit on useful and informative post. Giving 50 merit is only to help the user rank up.

I have said about the minimum not the maximum Smerit giving.

Sorry my bad, lol it's will be bad problem.
If user must give multiple 5 merit, it should be also multiple 5 on merit requirement on each rank.

Rank	Required activity	Required merit
Brand new	0	0
Newbie	1	0
Jr Member	30	5
Member	60	50
Full Member	120	500
Sr. Member	240	1250
Hero Member	480	2500
Legendary	Random in the range 775-1030	5000

Current merit system is fine, no need to modify.

We only have to change requirements for jr member and member only ( already mentioned in my post), which is not  a big deal.

[BIT-BENDER]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits  

They won't throw merit out because they are established member,  any merit you get has to be gotten by good work. Let's be guided if they are established member but not merit source, there going out looking for post to merit is for the extent they cherish the forum.

various new members are migrating to other forums where it is much more easier to rank up

If they left for quick rank up then the forum is at no loss, ranking up is a process. And just to let you know the forum has no competition else where.

solution from my side is we can modify the merit system by making Smerits in the multiple of 5, So that the minimum merits one can give and receive is 5 from single user

I think would fail, ATM a member can give you five merit if they think that's what the post deserve, but making a number greater than one as the minimum is strange.
The only solution to rank up is following the process.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

IMHO merit system was not at all needed in the very first place because we have trust system already.

No, no, no.  I was personally using the trust system to fight shitposters right before the start of the merit system and it wasn't popular with anyone, including Theymos.  The merit system was absolutely needed, and it was a pretty elegant solution to the problem it addressed.

If newbies are frustrated that they can't rank up on a discussion forum, that's 99.9% likely because they're here to use the forum as a place of employment instead of having a genuine interest in reading and writing about crypto.  I have zero sympathy for those folks.  And where are they going to go where they can rank up quicker?  Cryptotalk?  Good luck with that; that forum is a shitfest and it's nothing compared to bitcointalk--and there aren't a hell of a lot of other forums dealing with bitcoin that I know of.

The whole issue as I see it is the existence of signature campaigns, which is fairly unique to bitcointalk.  It is because of their existence that account farming exists, account sales thrive, and rank is of the utmost important to newbies.  I could pretty much guarantee you that if campaigns went away, nobody would be bitching about merits or ranking up.

[Timelord2067]

I have realized that with the advent of new merit system, most of the established members are hoarding Smerits. I have also came across various posts on other forums in which they are selling merits.

There doesn't appear to be any links presented as evidence of users selling their merits.  Perhaps you could give examples of users who are "hoarding" their merits, then give examples of what you would like done - public shaming, branding via tar and feathers, covered in honey and tied to an ants nest - or more likely nothing as the recipients haven't seen anything worthy of being merited.

[sujonali1819]

I am agreed with LoyceV and The Pharmacist. Obviously we need merit system in this forum. And merit is the solution to reducing spam posters. I don't sure actually what did OP said about other forums. AFaik Bitcointalk is the old and best crypto forum in the world. So bitcointalk will not follow the others, maybe other forums should follow bitcointalk to improve their forum.

We only have to change requirements for jr member and member only ( already mentioned in my post), which is not  a big deal.

If any user does not prove him as a good poster by ranking up through 1-10 merits earn, Then can you guess what will happen when that user can easily rank up and able to wear the signature ??   Just only signature spam we can guess actually. And the main vision of the merit system would be destroyed.

[Timelord2067]

If any user does not prove him as a good poster by ranking up through 1-10 merits earn, Then can you guess what will happen when that user can easily rank up and able to wear the signature ??   Just only signature spam we can guess actually. And the main vision of the merit system would be destroyed.

From what I've seen of the Signature Campaigns you only have to qualify with five initial merits in the last 120 days, not a rolling 5-in-120, so if there were any merits changing hands for payment, then a user only needs those initial five.  The most obvious purchase would be a loan of five, then pay back ten (two for one) once accepted to the SigCamp.  Look for any clusters where users over time back-scratch 5-for-10 with the sender of ten being lower ranked and in a Campaign.

[The Cryptovator]

I have to accept few users do not care about merits who have got their merits by airdrop. But we can't say them established users of this forum. Although they aren't spending their smerits but there is merit sources to solve this issue. Hoarding their smerit doesn't effect on whole merits system since there is large number of smerits generating every months.

Look at my profile, I have joined on this forum after implemented merit system. Means all of my merits have been earned. Just no only me, there is lots of users have been ranked up by earning merits and they made inspirational thread as well. So when you will concentrate about your post quality then it's not very hard to earn. Besides that merit and trust system is totally different and their uses is different as well.

I will suggest, instead of complain merit system just contribute yourself and share your best knowledge & experience with community.