The 2017-2018 Flu Killed 80,000 Americans, But No Hysteria or Shutdown

[BADecker]

After you check out these details, look at the second part, below... where Fauci has reduced his predictions down to 60,000 deaths... Ron Paul liberty video.


The 2017-2018 Flu Killed 80,000 Americans, But No Hysteria or Shutdown

From Time Magazine, January 2018:

Hospitals Overwhelmed by Flu Patients Are Treating Them in Tents

The 2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few.

"We are pretty much at capacity, and the volume is certainly different from previous flu seasons," says Dr. Alfred Tallia, professor and chair of family medicine at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, New Jersey. "I've been in practice for 30 years, and it's been a good 15 or 20 years since I've seen a flu-related illness scenario like we've had this year."

Tallia says his hospital is "managing, but just barely," at keeping up with the increased number of sick patients in the last three weeks. The hospital's urgent-care centers have also been inundated, and its outpatient clinics have no appointments available.

Time to get to the truth.


Fauci On The Ropes...Lashes Out At Trump

President Trump's coronavirus point-person Anthony Fauci is taking a beating after his warning of 240,000 Covid-19 deaths even after locking the country down has been revised downward to just 60,000. He's gone on the network news program in attempt to blame others for his colossal failure, but his CNN appearance over the weekend blaming Trump for not listening to him sooner has provoked a response from the president. Will Trump dump Fauci?

Fauci On The Ropes...Lashes Out At Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOTS_yahtVU

[BADecker]

This is why we need a courtroom battle to get the proof of what is really going on with Coronavirus.


Fauci Admits US Was "Given Incorrect Information From The Start"

When Fox News host Jesse Watters asked Fauci if he believes China or the World Health Organization "misled" him or if the WHO leader himself could have been "deceived," Fauci noted that while he does not know the details behind the inaccurate information, it was disseminated from the start of the crisis.

"You know I don't know where the missteps went, the only thing I know what the end result was, that early on we did not get correct information," Fauci said.

"And the incorrect information was propagated right from the beginning because you know when the first cases came out, that were identified I think on December 31st in China and we became aware of this, they said this was just animal to human period."

"Now we know retrospectively that there was ongoing transmission from human to human in China, probably at least a few weeks before then," he said.

Fauci said once the illness hit the U.S. it became evident "that was misinformation right from the beginning."

[SaltySpitoon]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018/archive.htm

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was also high with an estimated 48.8 million people getting sick with influenza, 22.7 million people going to a health care provider, 959,000 hospitalizations, and 79,400 deaths from influenza (Table 1). The number of cases of influenza-associated illness that occurred last season was the highest since the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, when an estimated 60 million people were sick with influenza (6).

The 2017–2018 influenza season was additionally atypical in that it was severe for all ages of the population (5). The burden of influenza and the rates of influenza-associated hospitalization are generally higher for the very young and the very old, and while this was also true during the 2017–2018 season, rates of hospitalization in all age groups were the highest seasonal rates seen since hospital-based surveillance was expanded in 2005 to include all ages (Table 2). This translated into an estimated 11.5 million cases of influenza in children, 30 million cases of influenza in working age adults (aged 18-64 years), and more than 7.3 million cases in adults aged 65 years and older.

So we break that down over a year, and we get 80,000 killed out of 48.8 million infected. We're currently at 1/3rd of the fatalities with 81 times fewer cases in 1/10th of the time span. In addition, theres no vaccine so the 20 year olds with asthma or nearly any typically fairly benign ailment that normally get a flu shot to completely avoid the chance of hospitalization from the flu don't have that option this time around.

Fauci revising from 240k to 60k or however many predicted deaths is a good thing... that doesn't mean the shutdowns weren't warranted, that means they're working. I hope the figures drop even further and its fuel for the people who think this was a waste of time, as ignorance is a luxury only afforded to those that have it good.

[BADecker]

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018/archive.htm

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was also high with an estimated 48.8 million people getting sick with influenza, 22.7 million people going to a health care provider, 959,000 hospitalizations, and 79,400 deaths from influenza (Table 1). The number of cases of influenza-associated illness that occurred last season was the highest since the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, when an estimated 60 million people were sick with influenza (6).

The 2017–2018 influenza season was additionally atypical in that it was severe for all ages of the population (5). The burden of influenza and the rates of influenza-associated hospitalization are generally higher for the very young and the very old, and while this was also true during the 2017–2018 season, rates of hospitalization in all age groups were the highest seasonal rates seen since hospital-based surveillance was expanded in 2005 to include all ages (Table 2). This translated into an estimated 11.5 million cases of influenza in children, 30 million cases of influenza in working age adults (aged 18-64 years), and more than 7.3 million cases in adults aged 65 years and older.

So we break that down over a year, and we get 80,000 killed out of 48.8 million infected. We're currently at 1/3rd of the fatalities with 81 times fewer cases in 1/10th of the time span. In addition, theres no vaccine so the 20 year olds with asthma or nearly any typically fairly benign ailment that normally get a flu shot to completely avoid the chance of hospitalization from the flu don't have that option this time around.

Fauci revising from 240k to 60k or however many predicted deaths is a good thing... that doesn't mean the shutdowns weren't warranted, that means they're working. I hope the figures drop even further and its fuel for the people who think this was a waste of time, as ignorance is a luxury only afforded to those that have it good.

Walmart workers aren't getting any sicker than usual, even though many don't wear masks, and more people are visiting them more often to see if they have some TP, etc., in yet.

[SaltySpitoon]

Walmart workers aren't getting any sicker than usual, even though many don't wear masks, and more people are visiting them more often to see if they have some TP, etc., in yet.

I doubt you'd be able to find the numbers of illness in the Walmart employee demographic to analyze what it means. One could also say the number of visits to the store are down significantly (that data is available), Walmart workers may not be wearing masks (though they are now I believe) but their customers are and to what extent thats helping, etc.

Walmart workers with health concerns during a regular flu season can get a flu shot rather than hole up in their houses waiting for it to pass.

[BADecker]

Walmart workers aren't getting any sicker than usual, even though many don't wear masks, and more people are visiting them more often to see if they have some TP, etc., in yet.

I doubt you'd be able to find the numbers of illness in the Walmart employee demographic to analyze what it means. One could also say the number of visits to the store are down significantly (that data is available), Walmart workers may not be wearing masks (though they are now I believe) but their customers are and to what extent thats helping, etc.

Walmart workers with health concerns during a regular flu season can get a flu shot rather than hole up in their houses waiting for it to pass.

The thing that you are missing is, when people don't find the product they want at one Walmart, they travel to the rest of them.

[SaltySpitoon]

The thing that you are missing is, when people don't find the product they want at one Walmart, they travel to the rest of them.

Right, and thats why its unfortunate that we needed mandated shutdowns and stay at home orders. The government had to step in and say cut that out because people either weren't smart enough or just didn't care enough to manage a potential threat to themselves and others.

Keep in mind we're also comparing numbers looking back on a year versus from the very start of it. Corona virus isn't a game of Russian roulette where you instantly have it or you dont and then it kills you immediately or leaves you unharmed. I'm fairly confident I can say that no one that contracted Corona virus yesterday, or even the day prior is dead today because of it. The margin of safety 14 day period which is typically the longest incubation period for a corona virus means that everything that we're looking at statistics wise today is roughly 14 days behind the actual situation. ~14 days from now the number infected and the death rate will be an indication of what happened today. I'll point out that thats a bit misleading as it can incubate and start having ill effects before 14 days, but its a reasonable figure for the sake of example.

[BADecker]

The thing that you are missing is, when people don't find the product they want at one Walmart, they travel to the rest of them.

Right, and thats why its unfortunate that we needed mandated shutdowns and stay at home orders. The government had to step in and say cut that out because people either weren't smart enough or just didn't care enough to manage a potential threat to themselves and others.

Keep in mind we're also comparing numbers looking back on a year versus from the very start of it. Corona virus isn't a game of Russian roulette where you instantly have it or you dont and then it kills you immediately or leaves you unharmed. I'm fairly confident I can say that no one that contracted Corona virus yesterday, or even the day prior is dead today because of it. The margin of safety 14 day period which is typically the longest incubation period for a corona virus means that everything that we're looking at statistics wise today is roughly 14 days behind the actual situation. ~14 days from now the number infected and the death rate will be an indication of what happened today. I'll point out that thats a bit misleading as it can incubate and start having ill effects before 14 days, but its a reasonable figure for the sake of example.

Are you missing the second part of the OP The numbers were wrong from the beginning. So, more than likely, people are becoming more sick from lack of exercise, just sitting around at home. Fourteen days is standard for many colds and influenza.

The fact that Fauci is back-watering shows that there is a misunderstanding in the whole pandemic. It might not even be a pandemic at all.

[SaltySpitoon]

Are you missing the second part of the OP The numbers were wrong from the beginning. So, more than likely, people are becoming more sick from lack of exercise, just sitting around at home. Fourteen days is standard for many colds and influenza.

The fact that Fauci is back-watering shows that there is a misunderstanding in the whole pandemic. It might not even be a pandemic at all.

4/11/2020: Warning Citizens! The local zoo has had 20 tigers escape, they mauled their handlers and have exhibited aggression to humans in the past, please stay indoors!

4/12/2020: Thank you for staying indoors, the tigers have been captured.

4/13/2020: So you're telling me that there were 0 tiger fatalities? What a rip off, its like we didn't need to stay indoors at all.

[BADecker]

Are you missing the second part of the OP The numbers were wrong from the beginning. So, more than likely, people are becoming more sick from lack of exercise, just sitting around at home. Fourteen days is standard for many colds and influenza.

The fact that Fauci is back-watering shows that there is a misunderstanding in the whole pandemic. It might not even be a pandemic at all.

4/11/2020: Warning Citizens! The local zoo has had 20 tigers escape, they mauled their handlers and have exhibited aggression to humans in the past, please stay indoors!

4/12/2020: Thank you for staying indoors, the tigers have been captured.

4/13/2020: So you're telling me that there were 0 tiger fatalities? What a rip off, its like we didn't need to stay indoors at all.

Exactly! Do what you want. Lots of people stay home when they feel sick. But it isn't worth shutting the economy down for something that wouldn't have been any more disastrous than 2017-2018.

Stay at work so that the real disaster is avoided.

[SaltySpitoon]

Exactly! Do what you want. Lots of people stay home when they feel sick. But it isn't worth shutting the economy down for something that wouldn't have been any more disastrous than 2017-2018.

Stay at work so that the real disaster is avoided.

My point was more that you're comparing the end result and discarding what got us to that point. There could have been 20 million tiger deaths on 4/12/2020 (it was a really big city) had they not stayed indoors while awaiting their capture. Following health professional's guidelines and seeing a positive result is the expected result, it doesn't mean that everything would have been fine if we ignore them.

The 2017-2018 flu has at this moment killed more people than corona virus in the US correct. Its also killed more people than every single war that has not yet happened including World War 3, 4, and 5 combined. I'll be happy to raise a glass and toast with you when the total death count of corona virus stays below that of the 2017-2018 flu.
 
I know we're kind of shifting topics around a bit, but one of the bigger concerns is covid19's incubation period to your point. You're contagious before you feel sick and stay home. You get the flu and in a day or two you feel like hell and are on your couch eating soup. Covid19 you can be out for a jog kissing everyone you pass by on the lips for a week before you get any symptoms, if you get any symptoms at all. There are people going in for imaging after car crashes and finding covid19 related lung damage although they have no symptoms.

The economy is important, but its easier to go back to your job in a month if you're not dead, or in a better far more likely scenario after you've incurred a lifetime of crippling hospital debt.

[BADecker]

Exactly! Do what you want. Lots of people stay home when they feel sick. But it isn't worth shutting the economy down for something that wouldn't have been any more disastrous than 2017-2018.

Stay at work so that the real disaster is avoided.

My point was more that you're comparing the end result and discarding what got us to that point. There could have been 20 million tiger deaths on 4/12/2020 (it was a really big city) had they not stayed indoors while awaiting their capture. Following health professional's guidelines and seeing a positive result is the expected result, it doesn't mean that everything would have been fine if we ignore them.

The 2017-2018 flu has at this moment killed more people than corona virus in the US correct. Its also killed more people than every single war that has not yet happened including World War 3, 4, and 5 combined. I'll be happy to raise a glass and toast with you when the total death count of corona virus stays below that of the 2017-2018 flu.
 
I know we're kind of shifting topics around a bit, but one of the bigger concerns is covid19's incubation period to your point. You're contagious before you feel sick and stay home. You get the flu and in a day or two you feel like hell and are on your couch eating soup. Covid19 you can be out for a jog kissing everyone you pass by on the lips for a week before you get any symptoms, if you get any symptoms at all. There are people going in for imaging after car crashes and finding covid19 related lung damage although they have no symptoms.

The economy is important, but its easier to go back to your job in a month if you're not dead, or in a better far more likely scenario after you've incurred a lifetime of crippling hospital debt.

Good point! But we don't know that.

Remember that in the great Spanish flu 1918-1920, when there was no more room for the sick indoors, they housed them in tents, outside. The outside people were those who recovered easier and better.

It's all a guess that the rules for Covid-19 protection are doing any good. They might be exactly the thing that is making CV worse. If the media hadn't hyped CV, and there were no pandemic action at all, the deaths and illnesses might be way lower that 2017-18.

Obviously, we can't test both ways.

[SaltySpitoon]

Good point! But we don't know that.

Remember that in the great Spanish flu 1918-1920, when there was no more room for the sick indoors, they housed them in tents, outside. The outside people were those who recovered easier and better.

It's all a guess that the rules for Covid-19 protection are doing any good. They might be exactly the thing that is making CV worse. If the media hadn't hyped CV, and there were no pandemic action at all, the deaths and illnesses might be way lower that 2017-18.

Obviously, we can't test both ways.

I'd be curious as to where you found statistics on recovery rates of people outdoors versus indoors, but lets assume its true. Its not a guess that the rules for Covid19 protection are helping, we come to understandings of something by studying it and drawing conclusions. We apply those conclusions, and watch for a result. Putting a cork in your ass does not have the same effect on your health as washing your hands, and there are good reasons that we come to that conclusion. We actually knew about the concept of social distancing and measures that are in place now during the 1918 flu, and we have complete data that we can look back at in the same way we can look back at the 2017-2018 flu to compare cities where strict measures were put in place and where they weren't.

I'll let you look it up if you are interested so you can pick your source of choice.

[BADecker]

Good point! But we don't know that.

Remember that in the great Spanish flu 1918-1920, when there was no more room for the sick indoors, they housed them in tents, outside. The outside people were those who recovered easier and better.

It's all a guess that the rules for Covid-19 protection are doing any good. They might be exactly the thing that is making CV worse. If the media hadn't hyped CV, and there were no pandemic action at all, the deaths and illnesses might be way lower that 2017-18.

Obviously, we can't test both ways.

I'd be curious as to where you found statistics on recovery rates of people outdoors versus indoors, but lets assume its true. Its not a guess that the rules for Covid19 protection are helping, we come to understandings of something by studying it and drawing conclusions. We apply those conclusions, and watch for a result. Putting a cork in your ass does not have the same effect on your health as washing your hands, and there are good reasons that we come to that conclusion. We actually knew about the concept of social distancing and measures that are in place now during the 1918 flu, and we have complete data that we can look back at in the same way we can look back at the 2017-2018 flu to compare cities where strict measures were put in place and where they weren't.

I'll let you look it up if you are interested so you can pick your source of choice.

I don't disagree with you that lives would have been saved if we had had pandemic restraints set in place in 2017-18. Perhaps only 60,000 would have died.

It is possible that CV is worse than 2017-18 influenza, etc. I am hearing of great pain among people now that may not have been then.

At the same time, the figures for CV have been so inflated, that the kind of lockdowns that we are getting is probably entirely unwarranted. These lockdowns are based on false and inflated numbers. They will easily do far more general populace damage than they are doing good.

[franky1]

a few things ignorant badecker is not realising

first case was nearly in february for USA. and its now only april.
not even 3 months
where 1 month is isolation to hamper the numbers down

exponential means without isolation the next quarter would have many multiple more death than first quarter.
the third quarter would have exponential more then second. and so on

based on numbers, not even 10%, heck not even 5% of people have contracted it yet.
this alone shows that the asymptomatic vs symptomatic vs critical is much more harmful that usual

so comparing a full number year end vs numbers of not even 1 quarter, and where isolation has lessened the death count.. shows how bad it could be without isolation if it played out for the entire year

i want badecker to look at todays numbers. and for every week calculate a exponential multiple of 2.6 a week
then tell himself the end number at after a further 40 weeks

[Astargath]

a few things ignorant badecker is not realising

first case was nearly in february for USA. and its now only april.
not even 3 months
where 1 month is isolation to hamper the numbers down

exponential means without isolation the next quarter would have many multiple more death than first quarter.
the third quarter would have exponential more then second. and so on

based on numbers, not even 10%, heck not even 5% of people have contracted it yet.
this alone shows that the asymptomatic vs symptomatic vs critical is much more harmful that usual

so comparing a full number year end vs numbers of not even 1 quarter, and where isolation has lessened the death count.. shows how bad it could be without isolation if it played out for the entire year

i want badecker to look at todays numbers. and for every week calculate a exponential multiple of 2.6 a week
then tell himself the end number at after a further 40 weeks

Meh, not just that but these idiots fail to realize the biggest problem here. It's not only about deaths, it's about hospitalization, the coronavirus is significantly worse than the flu because even younger people will need hospitalization although they will likely survive. The healthcare system of any country would collapse quickly without any kind of restriction or quarantine.

[Gyfts]

Fauci revising from 240k to 60k or however many predicted deaths is a good thing... that doesn't mean the shutdowns weren't warranted, that means they're working. I hope the figures drop even further and its fuel for the people who think this was a waste of time, as ignorance is a luxury only afforded to those that have it good.

It's also worth noting that there are cases that are orders of magnitude higher than the confirmed figure, and therefore deaths, that aren't be accounted for because lack of widespread testing. People that are already died aren't going to get tested so the official death count isn't completely accurate either. Dr. Fauci mentioned this a couple times during his press conferences and highlights the virus's transmission rate as a part of why it's a problem.


That being said, it's clear coronavirus is deadlier than the flu by a large margin if Italy is any indication where certain regions of the country have a ~16% death rate of confirmed cases.

[franky1]

Meh, not just that but these idiots fail to realize the biggest problem here. It's not only about deaths, it's about hospitalization, the coronavirus is significantly worse than the flu because even younger people will need hospitalization although they will likely survive. The healthcare system of any country would collapse quickly without any kind of restriction or quarantine.

yep alot more go to hospital with breathing issues than usual because covid is more risky and stronger than previous strains.
heck even UK's boris johnson had to take up a ICU/hospital bed for a week
with only 1-5% spread so far. multiply the numbers available by 20-99x
-of those 'tested' stats of symptomatic that actually made it to hospital because they got triaged to show actual need of more than just a blanket and cough syrup at home.
-of those ending up in ICU

then take that multiple of those needing icu and deduct the number of ICU beds available. and you will see how many would then die without being able to be treated

[BADecker]

You jokers forget to read the OP, where it is shown that the numbers were way too high from the start, and might wind up being less that 2017-18.

The fake CV death numbers will be like candle light against the sun when compared with millions who die because of the economy shutting down.

[franky1]

You jokers forget to read the OP, where it is shown that the numbers were way too high from the start, and might wind up being less that 2017-18.

The fake CV death numbers will be like candle light against the sun when compared with millions who die because of the economy shutting down.

2017-2018 numbers are WHOLE YEAR NUMBERS

US didnt even have a death in JAnuary.. so 2.5 months where 1 month is isolated.. means the numbers could have been worse for just the first 2.5 months. but even so. if you multiply the numbers by 5 to get a ~12 month. you will see things can be far worse

apply maths. not scripts of how we all live in a movie. like you have been doing lately


.. i know media over use 'war' style wording.. and maybe it seems by you looking at media so much
in the battle against corona.. this isolation period is not combating corona.. its just temporary ceasefire

are these words getting through to you.
..
as fore the ecomony..
from the tone of your rhetoric you sound like someone living on social security and jobless anyway. so you have guaranteed income anyway. so why are you more worried about the economy

there will be shops in the future. there wil be cars. there will even be icecream and suntan lotion. so the economy will recover..
however for a person like you that doesnt get out and see reality much. why so concerned about the economy.

ive been living happily for 8 years without caring much about fiat. but i know even if FIAT government get into debt. people will still find ways to buy and sell.

is this worry you have about the economy be another example of your fondness for being a secret pro-gov, pro chemical company guy.
or are you stil just getting your thoughts from the cult websites and you dont even realise what your saying to even realise it when you prefer to promote wanting people to get back to paying taxes and working 60hours and consuming chemical
yep you have shown many many signs of bing against a narrative you pretended to have a year ago