Domain name update

[theymos]

Satoshi created both bitcoin.org and this forum, which was originally at bitcoin.org/smf. Later, the forum got its own domain name, but due to this history, bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org have traditionally been linked, and for quite some time Cøbra and I have together managed the domain names. However, Cøbra has never had much involvement in bitcointalk.org's operation, and I haven't involved myself in bitcoin.org for a couple of years, so the linkage between the two no longer really made made any sense. Therefore, we decided to separate the domains: I no longer have any access to the bitcoin.org domain name, and Cøbra no longer has any access to the bitcointalk.org domain name. The two sites should be viewed as totally separate, which in practice they have been for years.

There will be no changes whatsoever on bitcointalk.org due to this, and I'd assume that the same will be true of bitcoin.org. The bitcoin.org open-source project has been advancing steadily, and I hope and expect that it will continue to do so thanks to the efforts of its contributors.

Thanks to Cøbra for handling much of bitcointalk.org's domain-name-related work in the past.

[jackg]

To clairfy is there a co-ownership of both domains still or is one just owned by a single entity from now on?

I know Cobra was holding both domains in the past, has bitcointalk.org just been transferred to you and that's it or is it controlled by an additional pool of people?

[Coyster]

To clairfy is there a co-ownership of both domains still or is one just owned by a single entity from now on?

Theymos owns bitcointalk.org, Cobra owns bitcoin.org, neither of them(theymos and cobra)has access to the domain name owned by the other.

<...Therefore, we decided to separate the domains: I no longer have any access to the bitcoin.org domain name, and Cøbra no longer has any access to the bitcointalk.org domain name. The two sites should be viewed as totally separate, which in practice they have been for years.

[jackg]

To clairfy is there a co-ownership of both domains still or is one just owned by a single entity from now on?

Theymos owns bitcointalk.org, Cobra owns bitcoin.org, neither of them(theymos and cobra)has access to the domain name owned by the other.

No I meant more if it's possible to have a co-ownership here? Maybe Theymos, OG and hilarious or something - since there was a co-ownership in the past. (or theymos and cyrus)

If the co ownership was merely so that each could add different functionalities then this is unneccesary but if it was to protect the integrity of the domain and allow for it to be inherited wherever neccessary.

[BIT-BENDER]

No I meant more if it's possible to have a co-ownership here? Maybe Theymos, OG and hilarious or something - since there was a co-ownership in the past. (or theymos and cyrus)

If there was co-ownership it would be on the post or added, the message was to inform us about the separation of Bitcoin.org domain and Bitcointalk.org domain.
And the forum would still remain the same

There will be no changes whatsoever on bitcointalk.org due to this, and I'd assume that the same will be true of bitcoin.org.

[Timelord2o67]

You're all wasting your time asking theymos. As owner he can do what he wants with the forum. As I've found out before, you can ask a question in one of these missives and he just won't answer. He's made a decision and you may as well respect it as he doesn't usually clarify. (Look at his activity over the last.year or so)

[notblox1]

This is a good thing.
I hope that now we can expect to see long awaited update for bitcointalk theme and forum software.
I would like to see that before I die if possible ...

[logfiles]

You're all wasting your time asking theymos. As owner he can do what he wants with the forum. As I've found out before, you can ask a question in one of these missives and he just won't answer. He's made a decision and you may as well respect it as he doesn't usually clarify. (Look at his activity over the last.year or so)

He does respond mate. Thou he doesn't do that for all queries, but he tries so it should deter members from asking for clarifications. Even Presidents don't answer all questions during press conferences  

This is a good thing.
I hope that now we can expect to see long awaited update for bitcointalk theme and forum software.
I would like to see that before I die if possible ...

Surely every active member would like to see the same but this small change won't change a thing about the current progress  

[shield132]

Under user's avatar, there is: News: Latest Bitcoin Core Release: <-- Will download url be changed with bitcointalk.org instead of bitcoin.org ?
I think this domain related update must be on top of website for a while to inform all users.
What you did is a little bit perplexing for users: Which website should I trust to download bitcoin core, Bitcointalk Or Bitcoin.org ?
I ask this because you even said (what if won't be? What further actions will be taken from you?):

I'd assume that the same will be true of bitcoin.org.

Ahh, I thought I would make an offer...

[gmaxwell]

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

[JayJuanGee]

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

Surely, I do not understand enough to understand the significance of your comments.

Do you believe that theymos and Cøbra should have attempted to maintain a connection between the sites or the operations? 

theymos does seem to be representing it as NOT a big change, but it is likely with anything that sometimes material changes will come later or be felt later if some kind of dynamics are changed including each of their having official connections versus separate operations.

[LoyceV]

Therefore, we decided to separate the domains: I no longer have any access to the bitcoin.org domain name, and Cøbra no longer has any access to the bitcointalk.org domain name. The two sites should be viewed as totally separate, which in practice they have been for years.

Did this change happen recently? Both domains were last updated on November 24 last year:

Code:

Domain Name: BITCOINTALK.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D162601474-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namecheap.com
Registrar URL: http://www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2019-11-24T14:01:10Z
Creation Date: 2011-06-24T05:19:00Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2029-06-24T05:19:00Z

Code:

Domain Name: BITCOIN.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D153621148-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namecheap.com
Registrar URL: http://www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2019-11-24T13:58:35Z
Creation Date: 2008-08-18T13:19:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2029-08-18T13:19:55Z

Under user's avatar, there is: News: Latest Bitcoin Core Release: <-- Will download url be changed with bitcointalk.org instead of bitcoin.org ?

I don't think so. And I wouldn't download Bitcoin Core anywhere else than Bitcoin.org BitcoinCore.org anyway.
This is better:

You shouldn't trust a particular domain name to download Bitcoin Core at all, not bitcoin.org, or bitcoincore.org, or Github. You can download Bitcoin Core from just about anywhere safely, so long as you verify the signatures are valid, something I always urge users to do. Don't trust particular domain names, ever.

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

Surely, I do not understand enough to understand the significance of your comments.

I don't get it either. Please elaborate gmaxwell.

[VB1001]

It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

I am also concerned about this comment, it may be a little more explicit.

[Lauda]

Next step: Cøbra to give up access to Bitcoin.org.

Do you believe that theymos and Cøbra should have attempted to maintain a connection between the sites or the operations?  

Essentially nobody trusts Cøbra except theymos and maybe a couple of bamboozled individuals. There is a reason for this, and there is a reason why many here have praised Cøbra when he has appeared here before: It is called ignorance.

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

Surely, I do not understand enough to understand the significance of your comments.

I don't get it either. Please elaborate gmaxwell.

Most of the high ranking individuals on this forum today have next to no clue about anything Bitcoin related really (writing tech support answers based on what you find online is a triviality not knowledge).

Under user's avatar, there is: News: Latest Bitcoin Core Release: <-- Will download url be changed with bitcointalk.org instead of bitcoin.org ?

I don't think so. And I wouldn't download Bitcoin Core anywhere else than Bitcoin.org anyway.

Again: Wrong. You should download Bitcoin Core only from https://bitcoincore.org. Please stop giving bad information on Core related matters. Thanks.
How about the time he outed himself manipulating the public with multiple identities?

[nullius]

“Not your keys, not your coins.”

“Not your domain, not your website.”

The key difference is, of course, that a domain name is a (0) non-cryptographic identifier (1) under centralized control.  There is no avoiding that, unless you use only v3 onions, Namecoin, etc.  Still, it is critical to avoid reliance on domain names controlled by untrustworthy people such as, oh, say, Roger Ver.

E tu, Cøbra?

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

Thanks.

Surely, I do not understand enough to understand the significance of your comments.

I think you get it.

I don't get it either. Please elaborate gmaxwell.

I am also concerned about this comment, it may be a little more explicit.

If he had wanted to elaborate explicitly, I think he would have.

Greg Maxwell is known for his general outspokenness.  If he is here being cryptic, I infer that he is choosing to be so.

And I wouldn't download Bitcoin Core anywhere else than Bitcoin.org anyway.

I have made the mistake of referring newbies to bitcoin-dot-org, because it is more newbie-friendly (i.e., glitzy Web 2.0 style that breaks in my browser) than good old-fashioned bitcoincore.org.

I myself will STOP DOING THAT.

For years, for my own purposes, I have depended primarily on bitcoincore.org (onion) and the Github site for code, plus bitcoin-dev and this forum for information.  Observe that the Github project links to bitcoincore.org, not bitcoin.org.

Of course, it does not matter where you get your download, if you verify the integrity of your download using strong cryptography.  But let’s start by referring people to the download site that is actually run by Core.

Please heed Lauda here.

Again: Wrong. You should download Bitcoin Core only from https://bitcoincore.org. Please stop giving bad information on Core related matters. Thanks.

How about the time he outed himself manipulating the public with multiple identities?

In fairness, I don’t think it’s ipso facto wrong to use multiple identities.  (Cypherpunk here.)  The question is of intent.

I am much more worried by his equivocation over Btrash, of which I was hereto unaware due to my having slept for almost two years.  Equivocation is always a bad sign.

[Lauda]

How about the time he outed himself manipulating the public with multiple identities?

In fairness, I don’t think it’s ipso facto wrong to use multiple identities.  (Cypherpunk here.)  The question is of intent.

I am much more worried by his equivocation over Btrash, of which I was hereto unaware due to my having slept for almost two years.  Equivocation is always a bad sign.

It was never my intention to do so, but I would strongly argue that you do not want somebody doing that (very unlikely for virtuous reasons) to be the sole owner and responsible person for Bitcoin.org. No, just no.

[JayJuanGee]

Next step: Cøbra to give up access to Bitcoin.org.

Do you believe that theymos and Cøbra should have attempted to maintain a connection between the sites or the operations?  

Essentially nobody trusts Cøbra except theymos and maybe a couple of bamboozled individuals. There is a reason for this, and there is a reason why many here have praised Cøbra when he has appeared here before: It is called ignorance.

I had kind of noticed the parts about some questionable deviance into being sympathetic into shitcoins and nonsense BIG blocker theories, but sometimes it is NOT clear about the various connections and maybe they do not matter too much in the whole scheme of things and if I feel that I am able to engage within the forum and share ideas, mostly about bitcoin, then I am good... oh and say fuck you to the shitcoiners once in a while, that tends to be a bonus..

I'm really sad to hear this. It seems like bitcoin faces such tremendous headwinds.

Thanks.

Surely, I do not understand enough to understand the significance of your comments.

I think you get it.

I am also concerned about this comment, it may be a little more explicit.

If he had wanted to elaborate explicitly, I think he would have.

Greg Maxwell is known for his general outspokenness.  If he is here being cryptic, I infer that he is choosing to be so.
 

I was going to suggest that there might have been some double meanings, and perhaps it is NOT necessary for me to attempt to explore any further.  Even with some ambiguity, I feel that matters are sufficiently less muddy for me anyhow.

[nullius]

In fairness, I don’t think it’s ipso facto wrong to use multiple identities.  (Cypherpunk here.)  The question is of intent.

It was never my intention to do so, but I would strongly argue that you do not want somebody doing that (very unlikely for virtuous reasons)

It is not a good sign when Cøbra speaks with a forked tongue, as Cøbra—in addition to that multiple-identity thing.

to be the sole owner and responsible person for Bitcoin.org.

I am much more worried by his equivocation over Btrash, of which I was hereto unaware due to my having slept for almost two years.  Equivocation is always a bad sign.

No, just no.

No argument from me here!

bitcoincore.org (onion)

verify the integrity of your download using strong cryptography

On Principled Practicality

oh and say fuck you to the shitcoiners once in a while, that tends to be a bonus.

Whereupon:

Essentially nobody trusts Cøbra except theymos and maybe a couple of bamboozled individuals. There is a reason for this, and there is a reason why many here have praised Cøbra when he has appeared here before: It is called ignorance.

I had kind of noticed the parts about some questionable deviance into being sympathetic into shitcoins and nonsense BIG blocker theories, but sometimes it is NOT clear about the various connections and maybe they do not matter too much in the whole scheme of things and if I feel that I am able to engage within the forum and share ideas, mostly about bitcoin, then I am good...

Jay, I think that it would be a real eye-opener (and ultimately beneficial to Bitcoin) if you were to do a market analysis to estimate approximately where Bitcoin should be today, were it not for the fork-attacks.  Bitcoin’s “honey badger” power in resisting those attacks has been phenomenal; but where would we be without those attacks?

I am now arguing from a business perspective.  Any reasonable prospectus on Bitcoin must disclose that Bitcoin’s biggest vulnerability is fork-attacks, also known as the trust attack.  Any reasonable investor should recognize it as in his own self-interest to fight those attacks.  The forked shitcoins falsely advertised as “Bitcoin” will, in and of themselves, never amount to anything in the long term; they are purely a negative, which harms the market as a whole by intentionally, fraudulently diluting the “Bitcoin” brand and financially diluting Bitcoin’s market capitalization. and reducing overall investor confidence in Bitcoin’s uniqueness.  To invest exclusively in the one and only genuine Bitcoin, and to defend your investment by defending Bitcoin against dilution attacks, is a strategy perfectly matched in both principle and practicality.

Whereas Cøbra is perfectly positioned to stab Bitcoin in the back.  He is a trusted party for a vital public relations channel—one to which such well-intended people as LoyceV (and unfortunately, I myself) have been referring newbies.  If Cøbra were just some guy posting his opinions on the Internet, it would be a different matter.  Whereas the trusted party exclusively controlling a website with major public mindshare is known to be at best equivocal—at best.  If he were deadly principled, it may arguably be a different matter; but he is obviously not, wherefore:

Next step: Cøbra to give up access to Bitcoin.org.

[Cøbra]

You should download Bitcoin Core only from https://bitcoincore.org. Please stop giving bad information on Core related matters. Thanks.

Unfortunately you are giving bad advice here. You shouldn't trust a particular domain name to download Bitcoin Core at all, not bitcoin.org, or bitcoincore.org, or Github. You can download Bitcoin Core from just about anywhere safely, so long as you verify the signatures are valid, something I always urge users to do. Don't trust particular domain names, ever.

I have made the mistake of referring newbies to bitcoin-dot-org, because it is more newbie-friendly (i.e., glitzy Web 2.0 style that breaks in my browser) than good old-fashioned bitcoincore.org.

I myself will STOP DOING THAT.

For years, for my own purposes, I have depended primarily on bitcoincore.org (onion) and the Github site for code, plus bitcoin-dev and this forum for information.  Observe that the Github project links to bitcoincore.org, not bitcoin.org.

I question your judgement directing newbies to bitcoincore.org, a plain site with no real information about what Bitcoin actually is. There are plenty of good resources for newbies, bitcoincore.org definitely isn't one of them. Personally I find bitcoin.org the best for newbies, since it's well established, translated into a ton of languages, guides users through a linear process to learn about Bitcoin, has a good wallet picker to point users to the right wallet based on their needs, etc.

It's funny to hint I'm malicious or untrustworthy, despite managing these domains for years without any wrongdoing. I remember when these same people were hinting at me eventually turning bitcoin.org into a Bitcoin Cash site, yet it never happened, but it didn't stop them scaremongering and screaming about it like it was inevitable. Now here people are, hinting at some vague notion of me being untrustworthy, despite me safely and without incident handing the domain over to theymos. I think this is a problem with some people on this forum in general, they just assume everyone is malicious and some scammer, unless said user is in their clique.

The truth is, while you are spinning up nonsense and trying to spook people and smearing bitcoin.org's reputation, we are educating tens of thousands of new users each day. Millions of users learn about Bitcoin with us yearly, we send so much traffic to exchanges and wallets it's ridiculous, all of which translates into expanding the Bitcoin community. When you measure the objective good Bitcoin.org has done for Bitcoin over many years, it becomes really hard to trash it. You can find flaws in the best of people, MLK was a plagiarist, Gandhi was a racist in his youth, Mandela literally blew up civilians, but judgements about people and entities are generally done by subtracting some abstract idea of total good by total bad.

With respect to Greg's comments, I don't really know what he's hinting at either. My interactions with Greg have bounced between courteous and hostile over the years. I'm really confused by his response. I would hazard a guess that he generally doesn't trust me, and that he prefers bitcoin.org be owned by someone he's associated more intimately with.

[VB1001]

I am also concerned about this comment, it may be a little more explicit.

If he had wanted to elaborate explicitly, I think he would have.

Greg Maxwell is known for his general outspokenness.  If he is here being cryptic, I infer that he is choosing to be so.

An intriguing phrase of this nature (forecast of extreme winds towards Bitcoin) in the context of this thread made by one of the most recognized people in the forum, will always require an explanation of the meaning.
For my part, I take any GMax post, comment or opinion very seriously, in any direction.