What happend.....

[Crypto_Towelie]

Hi all!

Am I the only one who feels the current Bitcoin/Crypto climate is going to shit? When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

Governments are trying to take back control with regulations and taxes.
Exchanges requiring ID (KYC) etc. (hahahahaha fail)
Developers are requested to make themselves public
Previously rather unknown people. but with success in crypto, are for some reason seen as some sort of "Messiah" (binance dev for example)
etc.
etc.
etc.



So why the hell.... Do we (community) go along with all that crap?

And IMHO, if you are happy with the current climate, you should not be in crypto at all!

Or have I smoked one too many? This is not what Satoshi wanted/meant when he created Bitcoin right?


Have a good one,
Towelie

[rdluffy]

I know your feeling, and this kind of sentiment happens all the time in all different areas
Talking about BTC it's normal to be this way, in the past, like you said, it was the "wild west", but there were two options:

1 - Become unknown and be part only of the dark weeb, deep web and a few enthusiastics
2 - Become well known and be more developed, bigger, more "professional" and atracts more people to the enviroment

You know what happened, so this is natural, maybe with the first option you would be sad because no one would believe in BTC, so accept this fact and live well with BTC and community

[davis196]

1.Governments wanting taxes and control?...Hmm,yeah that's what governments want since the beginning of the human civilization.Are you surprised or something?

2.Exchanges requiring ID (KYC). That's government regulation,the exchanges have to comply by the law in order to continue their business.KYC isn't effective and can't stop scammers,but it has something to do with paying taxes.

3.Developers requested making themselves public....Who requested that?I don't see any news about this.

4.Crypto "Messian" people.Well,those people are a certain kind of entrepreneurs.
There are "make money online gurus" "crypto gurus" whatever you can think of "gurus"  
Just ignore them.Most of the "gurus" and "messiahs" are con artists and scammers.

Was the 2013 crypto climate better than now?
Back then,there were scammers everywhere and every bitcoin related website was a potential scam.

[20kevin20]

The beginning of my BTC journey is dated back in 2013 too. 2013 apparently was the beginning of Bitcoin's explosion, and that obviously led to lawmakers thinking about crypto laws. I am against control & KYC, but on the other hand I do get the fundamental idea of "we can't just let everyone be anonymous and handle money the way they want without any underlying ability of controlling from where, where and why the money is moving".

However, they're pushing it to the limits - exactly like I thought they would. They essentially pushed it to the abuse, out of which the most obvious one was KYC. This identification program, in my opinion, has put out the fire for many as they lost trust in BTC. It was supposed to make you free, not linked to yet another third party.. right?

The thing is, this being a new area of economics means there'll always be never-seen-before measures and features coming up and/or vanishing. Expect just anything. The only thing I have never stopped doing is believing. Maybe Bitcoin one day falls to 0, but what if I can be part of the opposite? Part of a changing world?

Focus on your beliefs. Focus on your privacy. Fuck Bitcoin laws man, they're nothing compared to what our leaders are pushing as an excuse of this "pandemic". The privacy thing goes way beyond KYC if you stop being blind and look at the situation we are witnessing as we speak. WHO wants to enter your house and check on your family members every single day and we're worrying about a KYC?

Where the hell are we heading?

[Yogee]

Change is to be expected.
- The popularity of Bitcoin rose exponentially since 2013 and it also became an investment assets to many.
- Government authorities saw that investor's money is flowing into bitcoin and they also want a piece.
- Developers requested to make their identity known is a consequence of the many scam projects that flooded the market since ICOs became a thing.

Despite all the changes, Bitcoin enthusiasts still have the option to use platforms that do not require their identity and transactions to be exposed completely such as P2P exchanges, wallets with coinjoin features and coin mixing services.

[ethereumhunter]

I guess you smoked too many lol

I think bitcoin is not at the climate, and we still waiting for that. The climate will come when the bitcoin price can rise so high, over what we already saw in a few years ago. So be it if the government wants to take control of regulations and taxes, but the crypto will still continue. And some exchanges do not require KYC for their members because they want to make their members satisfied with their services.

What we see now is bitcoin has a large number of people who use bitcoin to make money, and there is many more people will come to the bitcoin world. But we cannot see that in a short time because people need to learn before they can use bitcoin properly.

[Reatim]

Hi all!

Am I the only one who feels the current Bitcoin/Crypto climate is going to shit? When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

many of your kind don't worry because we have our own expectation mate so that is your opinion to be respected.

So why the hell.... Do we (community) go along with all that crap?

we are not going along thats why we are until now not allowing the government tool over our Market here.

And IMHO, if you are happy with the current climate, you should not be in crypto at all!

well i am happy at some point because now we can Buy more before the price goes high again.

Or have I smoked one too many? This is not what Satoshi wanted/meant when he created Bitcoin right?


Have a good one,
Towelie

Satoshi Made this for us to have financial freedom thats why until now we are fighting for our anonymity (though we are not that anonymous here)

[Cnut237]

When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

It got more popular. Prices increased.

As the money in anything grows, it becomes more visible and more of a concern to governments and regulatory authorities. If a thing is small in dollar terms, then it is inconsequential to a government, and is ignored. When it gets bigger, and particularly when it impacts other people and other businesses, then the authorities step in. Crypto has a lot of rock-solid use-cases. It will continue to get bigger, continue to move towards the mainstream, and continue on the path to regulation and integration into 'normal' society.

If I have a couple of chickens in my garden and set up a stall in front of my house selling 6 eggs a week for $1, then the government couldn't care less that I'm making $1 profit and paying zero tax on it. If I scale up and have 10,000 chickens, build a shop in front of my house and start employing staff to sell the eggs, then the authorities take an interest. Same with anything.

[kryptqnick]

I am more or less satisfied with what's going on. Governments should regulate the market, it would facilitate the adoption process. Of course, the regulations shouldn't be too tough but I think regulating cryptos like money makes sense (although in practice countries usually opt for other things which allow getting money out of it). As for #2, I think there should be reasonable financial limits introduced, and once transactions are above that limit, KYC is okay because it can really help fight money laundering. Speaking of #3, it came to be at least somewhat after billions of dollars lost by people who invested in scam ICOs and couldn't even sue the teams as they had no idea to whom they gave their money.
There are problems, but it's not all that terrible IMO.

[Twentyonepaylots]

When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

It got more popular. Prices increased.

True 

As the money in anything grows, it becomes more visible and more of a concern to governments and regulatory authorities. If a thing is small in dollar terms, then it is inconsequential to a government, and is ignored. When it gets bigger, and particularly when it impacts other people and other businesses, then the authorities step in. Crypto has a lot of rock-solid use-cases. It will continue to get bigger, continue to move towards the mainstream, and continue on the path to regulation and integration into 'normal' society.

Crypto becoming bigger than anyone have thought is the reason why government is calling it a "threat" to their standardized set of terms financially. We have seen economists calling it a bubble, and government tend to ban it. But now? I see establishments and businesses growing with cryptocurrency, they are having a wide variety of payment options which people most love when buying, and the best is that government is considering it now to be an alternative for fiat currency and is having the idea of Digital Central Bank Currency.

If I have a couple of chickens in my garden and set up a stall in front of my house selling 6 eggs a week for $1, then the government couldn't care less that I'm making $1 profit and paying zero tax on it. If I scale up and have 10,000 chickens, build a shop in front of my house and start employing staff to sell the eggs, then the authorities take an interest. Same with anything.

Pretty clever analogy, it only means that government is only looking with the same level as their eyes, they are not looking down and taking crap.

[jacafbiz]

I do understand line of thought and this was my concern when all exchanges start implementing these stupid KYC policy, it is getting frustrating. What these exchanges wants is that they want to play the big boys game and for them to get accepted they need to play by their rules. I have always argued that Bitcoin is not a money to be used to buy just anything like the Fiat.

[tomahawk9]

Governments are trying to take back control with regulations and taxes.

That was always going to be the case with BTC. Once they (ruling class) figured out that they can't stop BTC without going on a totalitarian rampage, it was obvious they were going to try the "less invasive" yet profitable approach to deal with decentralized cryptos such as BTC: regulations.

Exchanges requiring ID (KYC) etc. (hahahahaha fail)

I mean, it's not like Bitcoin was a synonymous of privacy. Plus, exchanges are the gateway for Bitcoin to the masses. General public complying to KYC = they buy crypto = price pump = moon & lambos and everybody wins (the masses discover a new way of keeping their wealth outside of "the system" and hodlers see their btc stash go up in value, it's a win-win situation).

Developers are requested to make themselves public

I don't follow the technical side of cryptos nor the community surrouding it so i'm not aware of this. Are they being forced to do that?

Previously rather unknown people. but with success in crypto, are for some reason seen as some sort of "Messiah" (binance dev for example)

Seen as a Messiah by whom? The general public? The MSM? Crypto newbies? If so, should we care? it's not like we have the resources to stop them from following the next narrative. Let the herd follow the narrative that the ruling class has imposed on them. We (not NPC's following the elite) should just move along with our lives.

So why the hell.... Do we (community) go along with all that crap?

And IMHO, if you are happy with the current climate, you should not be in crypto at all!

Let's cut the crap, either we go along with this "new era" of cryptos or we won't see BTC mooning (literally what the majority here wants). The community let this current climate that you speak of proceed like nothing back in 2017 when the big boys from Wall Street started making their moves and entering the crypto market en masse. it's too late now, they're too big: whales holding massive amount btc, exchanges trying to monopolize the cryptosphere (see Binance), etc, etc.
Also, most people involved with cryptos nowadays do not care about the cypherpunk movement (which is something i'm sure you follow), it sucks but it is what it is in this time and age.

This is not what Satoshi wanted/meant when he created Bitcoin right?

Is Satoshi supposed some sort of Messiah? "O' Lord Satoshi, for thou hast created bitcoin I will follow thee for I have followed thy teachings" LOL

[Crypto_Towelie]

Wow, some valid points here.

Good to know I'm not the only one who's having thoughts like that.





The chicken example is spot on btw



But, if there's such a bad taste when it comes to KYC, how come the majority of traders still use them? There are many alternative exchanges that don't require KYC (yet).
So this makes me think, the majority does not give a crap about their privacy as long as there is some volume on these exchanges to play with?

I get it though, if you trade on bittrex,binance or whatever, you are not easily moving to another exchange. But isn't that a bit "dangerous" as well? I mean, where's the line here in what exchanges ask, and will ask from from us in the future?

I think we can be certain, this is only the start of "regulating" crypto. So when will this go too far/stop? When they ask fingerprints for login systems?  


I'm aware of the positive sides of regulation. But lately, it looks like the regulations are going through the roof, and we just follow along like a headless chicken. That's what worries me on the long term. Are the masses agreeing to these regulations too easily maybe?


edit:

There's too much to quote from everyone, and to respond to it. But thank you all for replying and giving your inputs/thoughts on this matter.

[BrewMaster]

When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

nothing, all the things you listed here (below) are exactly the same as ever!

Governments are trying to take back control with regulations and taxes.

they have been doing it long before bitcoin and will coninue doing it long after bitcoin.

Exchanges requiring ID (KYC) etc. (hahahahaha fail)

exchanges are centralized places that are only used by traders. the rest of bitcoin users are not traders so they don't need exchanges and their KYC. they can also buy bitcoin P2P or get paid in bitcoin just like any other currency.

Developers are requested to make themselves public

almost all of bitcoin developers and major contributors are already known! again this is not changed over the past 10 years.

Previously rather unknown people. but with success in crypto, are for some reason seen as some sort of "Messiah" (binance dev for example)

anybody is free to claim to be anybody. there is at least one new idiot literary every week who claims to be an expert in bitcoin. that only makes them look bad.

[giammangiato]

Hi all!

Am I the only one who feels the current Bitcoin/Crypto climate is going to shit? When I got into Bitcoin in 2013, this was the true new wild west so to speak. So what happend in the last 5-6 years?

Governments are trying to take back control with regulations and taxes.
Exchanges requiring ID (KYC) etc. (hahahahaha fail)
Developers are requested to make themselves public
Previously rather unknown people. but with success in crypto, are for some reason seen as some sort of "Messiah" (binance dev for example)
etc.
etc.
etc.



So why the hell.... Do we (community) go along with all that crap?

And IMHO, if you are happy with the current climate, you should not be in crypto at all!

Or have I smoked one too many? This is not what Satoshi wanted/meant when he created Bitcoin right?


Have a good one,
Towelie

Hi Towelie,
you are absolutely right about what you say! up to 5/6 years ago bitcoin was considered the new far west, for many a gold mine, but over time the fans have multiplied considerably and with them also gurus and scammers! this led to a gradual loss of our privacy on cryptocurrencies and apparently it was inevitable that it would happen

[The Cryptovator]

The worst idea ever for crypto community is KYC documents. Bitcoin wasn't designed with this worst idea. But peoples are hopeless since most of reputed centralized exchange organizations asking for that shit documents even including gambling. I am not sure how cryptocurrency would be 100% regulated but this is another disadvantage for crypto users. Regulation and KYC procedures making hard to use crypto currency. Its become quite difficult to keep your privacy private.

Even we aren't happy with current crypto climate what should we do? Leaving crypto industry for this reasons wouldn't be a solution. Rather than blame to others think about something new and unique how could we build more strong crypto community and we could overcome such as shit ideas.

[rhomelmabini]

It goes mainstream and the government recognized it but being regulated by this entity will not be good for the mass especially if we talked about this "KYC". Centralized Exchanges are just complying with want the government wants because if they don't they can't operate, I'm just hoping more and more adopt decentralized exchanges.

[sunsilk]

You are lucky to be one of the early adopter. Satoshi's vision and mission creating bitcoin didn't go in vain. We are still using it as a payment and that's the main goal why Satoshi ended up with bitcoin.

The exchanges just came next and those are businesses that have to comply to their local government in which they are part of the jurisdiction. They're helping the crypto community because there's circulation of money and it's adding market cap to bitcoin.

I guess Satoshi is expecting this or has seen this scenario, the collaboration of the government and its tie up to bitcoin.

[joniboini]

There are obviously different kinds of people on the market now. One uses bitcoin for its better pseudonymous support, while the other is in it for the money. The latter won't mind any KYC as long as it's safe for them while the other would probably asking where are we going right now.

Crypto is no longer a 'geek' market now, everyone is trying to take profits from it, so it's inevitable. If you don't like KYC, strict rules and etc, then DEX is your choice. Removing the whole retail market is not a good idea either as it's impossible to make bitcoin mainstream when you don't get enough publicity and volumes from those speculators.

[Wexnident]

Going shit seems to be too much. It pretty much just bent to the will to the majority of those big companies, albeit a minimal amount. Kind of like meeting halfway through to make an agreement. Not to mention the explosive growth of Bitcoin in every aspect which only took 10 years. The government as an authority HAD to do something. It's not like they're just idiots to ignore something that literally imposes control over something they themselves control. Not to mention that they can't even participate in negotiations with whoever is backing BTC because no one is backing it. Well, there is, but it's a collective organization without any leader, simply speaking, the crypto community that is invested in making BTC an asset that could be assimilated to the entire world.