[ANN] (DAM) Datamine Network - FLUX: Time is Money 2.0 - DeFi DApp

[NationalPotato]

The incentive system based on burning extra tokens is a very interesting approach to the issue of extra tokens. Thus, coins should not lose much in price, even taking into account the fact that their number is infinite in essence.

How do you account for the 70% price decline in the last ~2 days, then?  How much additional liquidity are you wiling to personally supply to support the current price?

 avoids the N+X question

I didn't avoid it, and I addressed it in my response to you. I'll explain again; burning is just another mechanism to increase the minting rate, ie; you get a larger chunk of the global mint rate by increasing your burn. Similiar to adding a new mining rig to the global hashrate of a typical PoW coin. The N+X question is framed in a way that misunderstands the entire premise of Flux. Will the supply of Flux continue to increase? Yes, proportionally to the global burn rate. This WILL be price deflationary, until an equilibrium is reached. But, yes, the N+X understanding would imply that, if demand remains unchanged, the price will continue to deflate. It's almost as if... every cryptocurrency that has more supply being create

So we both agree the price is going to head downward until it reaches "equilibrium" or 0, whichever comes first?  I bet "equilibrium" is well-below $1.00 in the next 30 days. 

Also - to anyone considering $DAM vs. Mining hardware, remember you can always sell your GPUs on Craigslist and you don't need to worry about the developer dumping the books to exit stage left on their ugly shitcoin. A 1080ti is a 1080ti regardless of an individual project's market conditions.

[Dabs]

Got an ETH address you'd be willing to demonstrate ownership of

Nah. I'm not the type. Sorry. I'm shy. Besides, I don't personally have much, (or not as much as some would believe, I like pretending) just token amounts for playing with the dashboard.

... because you're nice (you are and I like you and appreciate you for that).

Thank you. I'm sorry I can't answer the other concerns though. Feel free to stay. I'm not the best at understanding some of these things.

How do you account for the 70% price decline in the last ~2 days, then?

It's been a week and a couple of days.

Bitcoin was once $20k, and fell to $3k. (Even older still, it was once $1000 and fell to $200, and before that it was once $50 and fell to $2.)

I suggest you give this whole thing some time to sort itself out, perhaps not 11 years or anything like that, we all know things move a little quicker these days. But a couple of weeks is kinda pushing it.

It did start at somewhere below $0.01 before it went up to $0.20. And FLUX actually started at zero.

I learned a few things:

PITNOG = Patience is the name of the game..

It's time in the market, not timing the market.

Finally, the devs do not have a premine, either of the old coin, or the new token. We all started out the same.

[indo1]

Alpha Datamine DeFi Network
July 31, 2020, I want to see how this will continue, and I see on the graviek exchange that the trade volume ratio is very low and the dispute between buy orders - far cell buy, should increase trading volume

[drays]

I would like to thank NationalPotato and xxmetalmartyrxx (and few others too actually) for the entertaining and informative read. I believe NationalPotato brought up legit questions, and xxmetalmartyrxx provided meaningful answers (which could have been provided in a more respectful way though). I personally got some information I needed.


@NationalPotato: your concern regarding the utility for FLUX is reasonable, but I assume you are looking at things from a viewpoint of a person who is more into a traditional financial market rather than a cryptocurrency ecosystem. In a crypto world "inherent" value is often something intangible, and it is still unclear whether any of cryptocurrency offerings provide any 'inherent' value. If you look at it from Warren Buffet's standpoint, you will discard every single cryptocurrency in the world, including DAM, FLUX, ETH or BTC.

Look at it as a game. Its a game developers have offered, and the people agreed to participate in. The rules are openly described (both the code is open for everyone to check, and written text descriptions describe the rules quite well). So people are playing this game to entertain themselves, and to get some profit (and currently the profit is still high). They are playing voluntarily, and here you come and tell them "you are playing a wrong game, stop it".. Well.. its their game, they read the rules, they agreed to play. Let them play and enjoy the ride.

What will be the result of the game? The FLUX supply will inflate, for sure, it will lose value to some point. That's clear, and that's inevitable, as the supply still grows fast. Will it find its final balance at zero..? Maybe it'll do that like 99% of altcoins in the market, but definitely not quite yet. It might take few months or years, or may never happen, as it highly depends on what the developers will do next with the project.
In any case, one intentional result of this process will be the distribution of the coins, which is essential for any crypto project. If the destribution is wide enough, if enough people are amused by the game, and if the developers drive things forward to a next step (which should give additional value), then who knows where this could land at... some may say 'moon' . Every project has its chance. In any case its still too early to speculate about this - as there are too many unknowns.

One side note: you participated in the BWK game (owned masternodes AFAIK), but refuse to accept DAM game. Whats the big difference? BWK was aslo a "lock your BWK to get more BWK" game, wasn't it?

[NationalPotato]

Well.. its their game, they read the rules, they agreed to play. Let them play and enjoy the ride.

I think anyone who chooses to play a game should know the rules.  One of the most common responses through this thread was basically "I'm not smart enough to understand that".  So I think an exploration of the rules and a more-through breakdown of them is fair.  One of the biggest fundamental rules of any coin with a mint function is the initial liquidity crunch price spike. DAM attempts to elongate this crunch by incentivising locking for FLUX, and burning FLUX to get more FLUX.  This may maintain the liquidity crunch and price spike for longer, but you've been in the altcoin game long enough to know where it lands 99.7% of the time.

What will be the result of the game? The FLUX supply will inflate, for sure, it will lose value to some point. That's clear, and that's inevitable, as the supply still grows fast. Will it find its final balance at zero..? Maybe it'll do that like 99% of altcoins in the market, but definitely not quite yet.

The result of the game will be that FLUX and DAM are likely to continue bleeding value until they're able to create and successfully market a compelling enough use case (hint: burn FLUX to get more FLUX isn't a use case) that attracts new market entrants to support the price.

It might take few months or years, or may never happen, as it highly depends on what the developers will do next with the project.

They could start buy honoring their bounties and patching bugs:
https://librehash.org/auditing-the-flux-smart-token-contract-major-vulnerability-found-5-000-bug-bounty-denied-with-team-also-refusing-to-acknowledge-or-patch-part-one/

SmartContract vulnerability could be a big deal and is one rule that's very much worth keeping in mind.

In any case, one intentional result of this process will be the distribution of the coins, which is essential for any crypto project. If the destribution is wide enough, if enough people are amused by the game, and if the developers drive things forward to a next step (which should give additional value).

Based on my analysis, I don't think this project will go anywhere.  It's really quite likely that no major exchange will touch them just from a risk perspective.    CTFC is going after exactly this type of project: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-153

One side note: you participated in the BWK game (owned masternodes AFAIK), but refuse to accept DAM game. Whats the big difference? BWK was aslo a "lock your BWK to get more BWK" game, wasn't it?

Yeah, I played that game and saw how it worked out, so I didn't want to play again.  I also wanted to make sure anyone deciding to play this game could have a better understanding of the rules.

I'm glad you enjoyed the dialogue

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

(which could have been provided in a more respectful way though). I personally got some information I needed.

Yeah I guess since he was pretty hostile and troll-esque in the Discord server (which led to him getting banned) I had a pretty short fuse with him on here. My wife says I've been getting less patient over the years, and perhaps I should be a little more patient, and a little more tactful in my approach; doubly so on a public forum like Bitcointalk. Apologies Potato, at the end of the day we can often forget on the other side of the computer is another human being. I wish you all the best. (Just some honesty and less fud spreading would be appreciated haha)

[xxmetalmartyrxx]

They could start buy honoring their bounties and patching bugs:
https://librehash.org/auditing-the-flux-smart-token-contract-major-vulnerability-found-5-000-bug-bounty-denied-with-team-also-refusing-to-acknowledge-or-patch-part-one/

SmartContract vulnerability could be a big deal and is one rule that's very much worth keeping in mind.

Alright, let's just set the record straight. This dude who brought these concerns is a verified scammer, going by multiple online aliases. This steemit article is just one example of the crooked games' he's played. https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@exposer/cryptomedicated-or-james-edwards-and-chayleh-tracey-fraud-exposed-or-picture-proof.

His concerning was with the "approve" function in the code inside the ERC777 standard that gives it compatibility with ERC20 (from my non-technical perspective, I'm not a coder). Someone in our community put it like this;

Alice says to Bob, "I approve of you spending this $20."
"Thanks Alice!  I'm going to go spend all of it immediately on BWK.  That coin has a great future!"
"Wait, Bob, before you do that, I've changed my mind.  I now only approve of you spending $7."
"Sorry, Alice, I already spent it all."
Does this sound like an exploit, or did Alice make a poor decision in approving Bob to spend her money?


So this exploit, actually can't be exploited because nothing in the DAM-FLUX ecosystem utilizes the "approve" function. See for yourself, go trade a regular ol' ERC20 on uniswap, and you'll notice you must approve it. Trading FLUX and DAM do not require this, as per ERC777. So this is currently unexploitable. Now Hodl has mentioned that later today he'll be replying in a long form to address this concern. Again remember who brought these allegations forward; a toxic member of the crypto community who has a history of scams, evidence fabrication and has had his accounts banned several times (why he's changed his aliases so often). A great twitter to see more on Librehash, is ProofOfFraud on twitter, a twitter account created to expose Librehash.

CTFC is going after exactly this type of project: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-153

Now this is flat out dishonest, and misleading. Abra's entire platform was it's interaction with traditional securities markets. You could "purchase" stock, ETFs and the like with crypto on Abra. That's what's gotten them into hot water with the SEC. To insinuate that their platform is anything the Datamine Network is absurd.

[NationalPotato]

Yeah I guess since he was pretty hostile and troll-esque in the Discord server (which led to him getting banned) I had a pretty short fuse with him on here. My wife says I've been getting less patient over the years, and perhaps I should be a little more patient, and a little more tactful in my approach; doubly so on a public forum like Bitcointalk. Apologies Potato, at the end of the day we can often forget on the other side of the computer is another human being. I wish you all the best. (Just some honesty and less fud spreading would be appreciated haha)

I appreciate the sentiment and its why I stay above name-calling and attacks on individuals.  Can you please cite where I was "hostile" and "troll-esque"?  I was there for 20 minutes.  I got banned almost immediately because I pointed out that the core mechanism of DAM (produce flux) and FLUX (produce more FLUX) is deflationary. 

My quote in the Discord conversation with you was "Burning flux to get more flux is a price deflationary mechanism - I can't see people with huge stacks of locked DAM buying FLUX just to burn it to lose money.  Without another use-case for FLUX the concept doesn't work.  The primary use case for FLUX should NOT be burning it to multiply your FLUX rewards, that should be a secondary use case."|

So this exploit, actually can't be exploited because nothing in the DAM-FLUX ecosystem utilizes the "approve" function. See for yourself, go trade a regular ol' ERC20 on uniswap, and you'll notice you must approve it. Trading FLUX and DAM do not require this, as per ERC777. So this is currently unexploitable. Now Hodl has mentioned that later today he'll be replying in a long form to address this concern.

Again remember who brought these allegations forward; a toxic member of the crypto community who has a history of scams, evidence fabrication and has had his accounts banned several times (why he's changed his aliases so often). A great twitter to see more on Librehash, is ProofOfFraud on twitter, a twitter account created to expose Librehash.

A broken clock can be right twice a day.  Would Hodl be willing to ask OpenZeppelin in their public support forum (https://forum.openzeppelin.com/c/support/contracts/18) for feedback on his implementation?  They wrote it.

Now this is flat out dishonest, and misleading. Abra's entire platform was it's interaction with traditional securities markets. You could "purchase" stock, ETFs and the like with crypto on Abra. That's what's gotten them into hot water with the SEC. To insinuate that their platform is anything the Datamine Network is absurd.

CTFC went after Abra because they "accepted orders for and entered into thousands of digital asset and foreign currency-based contracts via a mobile phone application. These contracts, which constituted swaps under the CEA, enabled customers to enter into financial transactions, with the respondents acting as the counterparty, to gain exposure to price movements of over seventy-five digital assets. By entering into these contracts via their app, respondents violated Section 2(e) of the CEA, which makes it unlawful for any person, other than an eligible contract participant, to enter into a swap unless the swap is entered into on, or subject to the rules of, a board of trade designated as a contract market. Additionally, in soliciting and accepting orders for these contracts, the respondents illegally operated as an unregistered futures commission merchant. "(https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8201-20)

I understand your point is that Abra created synthetic derivatives and then allowed price exposure to them via an app and that DAM/FLUX are different and I will agree with you on that.  However, the CFTC entering the fray on on-chain swaps doesn't bode well for a project that touts itself as "Money 2.0".  You're clearly not identical - I wouldn't suggest you are (that would be dishonest); my concern was more directly related to the clearly-increasing regulatory oversight occurring within DeFi.  Jake Chervinsky summarizes this well on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1282750679312891910?s=20

To that extent, is Datamine even a registered company?

Anyway - as with all things in crypto buyer (and seller!) beware.  Hopefully your "Money 2.0" doesn't draw the ire of the US Secret Service, because it is increasingly clear that the United States only really cares that you're dealing with its citizens - not where you're operating out of.  https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/71261/coinbase-is-selling-blockchain-analytics-software-to-the-us-secret-service

[spiraklas]

ok, guys ...newbie question here. I see the price of flux is around 5 dollars....in my dashboard says that I need 40 of them to take the 10x bonus..but a few days ago was 5.An explanation to as what causes that?

so. if i just pay 200 dollars and buy and burn the flux...is it gonna be permanent?? like always having the  10 x bonus?

Cheers

[NationalPotato]

ok, guys ...newbie question here. I see the price of flux is around 5 dollars....in my dashboard says that I need 40 of them to take the 10x bonus..but a few days ago was 5.An explanation to as what causes that?

so. if i just pay 200 dollars and buy and burn the flux...is it gonna be permanent?? like always having the  10 x bonus?

Cheers

You have to burn 9x / your wallet balance proportionate to global burn rate / global supply.  Basically you’ve got to burn 9x the average weighted burn rate... and no, it’s not permanent.  You’ve got to stay above the 9x/weighted average to get the 10x return.

[winston236]

Good idea to destroy FLUX tokens from circulation to create a dynamic market equilibrium. It really can reduce global inflation and increase dividend rates. That is, the token is only a means to achieve the ultimate goal.

[NationalPotato]

Follow-up/addendum:  I reached out to the Open Zeppelin team And they did not identify any specific deficiencies with the Datamine smart contract (https://forum.openzeppelin.com/t/question-on-smart-contract-inheriting-from-openzeppelin-erc777-implementation/3328/2).  This does not mean that there are no deficiencies, however, it means that whatever deficiencies exist (if any two) are not widely in publicly disclosed.  Despite my profound skepticism for this project, this news is good for them. Now they just need to solve the inflationary mechanism that is built into the project.  Kudos team - your code isn’t overtly fucked.

[Dabs]

The team has an official reply on the so called "audit":

Hey guys,

We've had a very strange personal attack from a beginner security auditor regarding a well-known ERC-20 approval exploit. This person chose to completely disregard our existing section on this form of attack within our Whitepaper.

Instead they chose to make it public so we've had to make a response on the audit (which is now part of the whitepaper): https://github.com/Datamine-Crypto/white-paper/blob/master/docs/audits/librehash.md

Give this audit a read and see why your funds are safe

[drays]

Follow-up/addendum:  I reached out to the Open Zeppelin team And they did not identify any specific deficiencies with the Datamine smart contract (https://forum.openzeppelin.com/t/question-on-smart-contract-inheriting-from-openzeppelin-erc777-implementation/3328/2).  This does not mean that there are no deficiencies, however, it means that whatever deficiencies exist (if any two) are not widely in publicly disclosed.  Despite my profound skepticism for this project, this news is good for them. Now they just need to solve the inflationary mechanism that is built into the project.  Kudos team - your code isn’t overtly fucked.

Thanks for checking, for reporting this and for being constructive. Its encouraging to see the efforts to be objective despite the existing bias. After all, we all should be interested in 'knowing the truth', not in 'being right'. Maybe at some stage you will become a supporter

The inflationary mechanism is there, however the mechanism for equilibrium is there too. Lets hope the team follows things and will make them right in case if anything moves not in a right direction. Being able to correct mistakes (if any) is as important (if not more important) as being able to avoid mistakes at planning stage. And we still don't know for sure if there is any mistake done.

[coinswebid]

depends on coinmarketcap data, this Defi Dapp tradeable on hoo and uniswap
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/flux/markets

[Mvnzv]

Seems really nice? If you need Spanish translation, community management or other things related to Spain/Latinamerica contact me

[Piston Honda]

the price is to DAM high!

get it

naw actually it's fucking holding up great thus far, keep it up.
flux doing well too (tho i don't touch that one)

[violet644]

There is now an unofficial Telegram group for Datamine where you can discuss and talk about DAM. Link https://t.me/dataminecrypto

[NationalPotato]

the price is to DAM high!

get it

naw actually it's fucking holding up great thus far, keep it up.
flux doing well too (tho i don't touch that one)

Your wish has been answered.  Down 40% since your post.  FLUX is even circling the toilet.

You were all warned.

[Bimmerhead]

the price is to DAM high!

get it

naw actually it's fucking holding up great thus far, keep it up.
flux doing well too (tho i don't touch that one)

Your wish has been answered.  Down 40% since your post.  FLUX is even circling the toilet.

You were all warned.

LOL you sound like Piston Honda on every other thread I see him on.

However, you surely must know that these small cryptos go up and down 40% all the time. Doesn't mean much.