Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal?

[svelandiag]

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.


So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

[serjent05]

It is considered cheating and illegal if they intentionally rigged the program to gain an advantage over the player.  As far as I know, it will fall under fraud crime.  

fraud
/frôd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Just make sure you can prove that they are actually cheating you.  Else it will be just a waste of time.

[DoublerHunter]

^ Can you tell us what gambling platform you are talking about? So that we can make also an account and verify the provably fair algorithm of that website.
In every hashed made by the gambling platform, the seed will automatically send to the player and it should be transparent to verified anyone else. If you cant verified, well, that is cheating because it can be verified by a player in real-time. Nevertheless, if the casino will be tried to manipulate the bet in any way the hash function would be changed and the bet would not be verified. That is cheating!

[logfiles]

If indeed what you tried to verify was true then it's considered fraud/illegal/scam.
Please let us know the name of the gambling platform along with proof that there was some sort of manipulation. This could save some more members from becoming victims.

[Quidat]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

If you can able to verify or to know that gambling sites office/location and this one involved big money then you can sue them out but to know that majority of online gambling sites now doesnt have any license and
that what makes it even more harder thats why its somewhat pointless if you do try to force when it comes to legal aspects.It would be better if you do bust em out and show off solid proofs
and tell the entire community.Same as others been asking on here on which we do really need to know the sites name so that people would be aware.

[chaser15]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

Tell the site customer support first then show your proofs. Wait for their response.

If they insist they didn't cheat, make an argument that you have the proofs.

How much the amount involved? If you can take it as a loss, it will be a hassle for you to hire a lawyer. You will pay for their service too. If you are eager, then up to you. The best thing to do is to spread words about that website about your bad experience. Name the site at any forum.

But make sure you are telling the truth or else you are the one that can be sued by the site if you provide your personal information.

[kawetsriyanto]

Just make sure you can prove that they are actually cheating you.  Else it will be just a waste of time.

You are right. Indeed, the first thing to do is by showing to the public about the proofs. People won't trust the story if no proof at all. We cannot analyze or learn the case without proof. Also, anyone can say that he made a fake story to drop the reputation of the gambling site if no proofs. So, before telling the people the name of the gambling sites, make sure that having strong proof related to the case.


I think this thread should be better on scam accusations.

[LogitechMouse]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

At least share more information here so the experts will know if it truly is a cheating or not.

If you don't want too, contacting a customer support with a sufficient amount of proofs will be ok or if you want make a scam accusation thread here with the website you've played (since you didn't mention the site here too). No need for lawyers here I think, just the customer support or the users here can help you too.

[Timelord2067]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work,

When you say you want to put the Lawyers to work, are you wanting to recover funds lost, or, are you wanting said gaming platform to be held to account for your losses?

Exactly how much did you loose?  What's your main alt - so far "activity one" you're just spreading FUD.

Re: Is this considered cheating? or illegal? (note the correct spelling too, by the way)

[adaseb]

You should post the name of the site. If it's something like 999dice then perhaps you might of been cheated however most gambling sites are legit these days.

I think what your issue is that the way you calculated the roll, each site has a different formula to get the winning roll. So are you talking about the roll calculation being incorrect or just the hashed sha512 is different after the bet session?

We would investigate but you should post the name of the site and the hashed and unhashed seeds since there is no privacy issues by posting those.

[shoreno]

You should post the name of the site. If it's something like 999dice then perhaps you might of been cheated however most gambling sites are legit these days.

I think what your issue is that the way you calculated the roll, each site has a different formula to get the winning roll. So are you talking about the roll calculation being incorrect or just the hashed sha512 is different after the bet session?

We would investigate but you should post the name of the site and the hashed and unhashed seeds since there is no privacy issues by posting those.

999dice and simillar site are too many thesedays  , they have a verry simillar domain names but this doesnt mean that they are already scam  .

dont know if how much is the amount that he lost but  its not worth the effort if its a small amount only   .  saw many gamblers complain on the past but at the end , it found out that the gambling site is legit and still running  .  those guys only try to damage the sites repuation  by posting wrong claims  , not saying op is one of them  .

[semobo]

If you can't verify their results then it is a scam probably considered as cheating but its legal or illegal depends on their origin.But if it a reputed crypto site then you can ruin their reputation if you provide valid proofs or people will consider you as troll.

[aioc]

You need to substantiate your claim, gambling sites knows that they can be checked and they can lose their reputation if they are going to cheat and it can be checked using the parameters you've used, first time I read such thing I hope it's not one of the popular gambling site here, but I doubt big gambling sites will do that they even invite to check their algo.

[maydna]

If you can't verify their results then it is a scam probably considered as cheating but its legal or illegal depends on their origin.But if it a reputed crypto site then you can ruin their reputation if you provide valid proofs or people will consider you as troll.

That will be his benefit if he can provide valid proofs, and perhaps, he can get a refund for his money. But I am not sure that if the casino will remind silent from his complaint because they will try to defend that there is nothing wrong with their system or server or anything else. That will make him difficult to prove, although he has the evidence for the illegal thing that the casino does.

If he can only lose little money, I suggest letting it go because that is not worth your time. But if that is big money, he can try to make a complaint to the casino, but he needs to think about how he can provide the proof and show to them.

[mu_enrico]

when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.


So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session.

First, I would suggest you share the unhashed server seed here so everyone can double-check it. Did you calculate using binary hash or string hash? Sometimes it was the problem.

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/40924/op-sha256-mismatch

[vycl87]

These situations are really troublesome. When we think that people from all over the world are able to gambling using these platforms, there is no chance to sue even if the vast majority of them notice such a trick. For this reason, we need to be able to do an emergency licensing work in this area. This licensing may be a new generation. A new generation licensing model should be developed considering the concept of decentralization.

For example, in my country, all gambling activities are prohibited. In this case, if I had to face such a thing, I would not be able to sue.

[swogerino]

The name of the site if posted here will solve a lot of doubts.If the site falls in the trusted casinos in the Gambling section most probably you did something wrong in your calculation but if it is a new casino promising provably fair and not keeping their word can lead us to conclusions.

[adaseb]

You should post the name of the site. If it's something like 999dice then perhaps you might of been cheated however most gambling sites are legit these days.

I think what your issue is that the way you calculated the roll, each site has a different formula to get the winning roll. So are you talking about the roll calculation being incorrect or just the hashed sha512 is different after the bet session?

We would investigate but you should post the name of the site and the hashed and unhashed seeds since there is no privacy issues by posting those.

999dice and simillar site are too many thesedays  , they have a verry simillar domain names but this doesnt mean that they are already scam  .

dont know if how much is the amount that he lost but  its not worth the effort if its a small amount only   .  saw many gamblers complain on the past but at the end , it found out that the gambling site is legit and still running  .  those guys only try to damage the sites repuation  by posting wrong claims  , not saying op is one of them  .

999dice was technically never proven to be a scam however the issue with them was that they only give you the server hashed seed AFTER you ask for it. Many casino owners and other critics argued that it was unfair because techically they can cheat you UNLESS you ask for the server seed and then obviously they can't.

They are the only site I know that does that and it gained a bad reputation and got some bad feedback on this forum. Other sites that are scams are different. They basically only accept deposit, let you bet, everything is provably fair but they will never make you withdraw, they will either say you cheated or ask for KYC.

[buwaytress]

999dice was technically never proven to be a scam however the issue with them was that they only give you the server hashed seed AFTER you ask for it. Many casino owners and other critics argued that it was unfair because techically they can cheat you UNLESS you ask for the server seed and then obviously they can't.

I daresay you're one of the few people who got it right about 999. I'm not a fanboy, I play most of my dice elsewhere but I occassionally return to 999 (their 0.1% edge is attractive) and I've never had a single problem.

Their issue is really that you HAVE to request for the server seed to know what it is BEFORE the outcome of your bet is determined. If you don't request, you never know. So I always click on that button before I start betting;)



I agree with critics, this exposes you to potentially getting cheated. Like you said, never proven, but not a risk anyone should take.

All that said, OP's problem isn't that he doesn't know the seed, it's that the seed hash doesn't match what was shown to him. THAT to me sounds like a certain scam. Name and shame, OP.

[sunsilk]

We're all waiting for you to name the casino. And the fact that you have asked about if it's possible that you have to work with a lawyer considers this involves a probable large amount.

Otherwise, you can talk first to that casino and settle this.