Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal?

[Debonaire217]

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session.

The fact that they are providing the hash of SHA512 for you to verify each of your game is their way to prove that they are providing a probably fair game. This hash is your instrument to check whether the results are completely random based from the very first seed they've provided. Thus, different seed from the Hash is enough for you to contact customer support.

If they verify your claim, you could possibly have a refund since it might be a technical issue from their system. Though, these technical issues are crucial to have big impact to the reputation of the online gambling casino.

[panganib999]

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.


So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

The first thing that you have done is right since that was really suspicious and since you have tried to check out yourself what's really going on, better do have some contact or conversation with the gambling platform you have played with so that they would take responsible actions and state if there is some error that happened and maybe your bets might be retrieve.

But once there is no response from them and you have a proof about what happen, it might be considered illegal or cheating already since you have done comparison of the first hash you have than the current you used on playing. That will be the time you must seek legal consultation to know what actions you can do to solve the problem.

[StephenJH]

Interesting accusation but I have seen the worse cases. Some gambling platforms prevent the user to take the server hash during the game or before and they put one line on terms&conditions about this rule or they limit the gambler how many times it is possible to request a new player side or server hash which prevents the server overload. Unless the site has a license which I doubt, we have no choice except to accept their rules for verifying game results.

[carlfebz2]

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session.

The fact that they are providing the hash of SHA512 for you to verify each of your game is their way to prove that they are providing a probably fair game. This hash is your instrument to check whether the results are completely random based from the very first seed they've provided. Thus, different seed from the Hash is enough for you to contact customer support.

If they verify your claim, you could possibly have a refund since it might be a technical issue from their system. Though, these technical issues are crucial to have big impact to the reputation of the online gambling casino.

Its already been provided and its already been verified which do really shows a non-fairness thing and of course it do considered cheating.

Im wondering on why do op doesnt still share the name of said casino so that the majority would able to tell or verify for themselves about this non-fair place.

When we do talk about illegal or cheating then theres no doubt with that.

[Saint-loup]

I'm not sure about that. They are now clearly aware of the so-called typo but they still haven't fixed it...
If an user is unable to check the fairness of the game with the datas provided by the house, it's a scam to call it a provably fair game.

Dude, only one day passed, give them some time.

Now 5 days have passed since OP has opened the thread. So what is your conclusion?
If they were serious they would have fixed the so-called typo without delay or they would halt the game if they are not able to fix it quickly.
But I think they don't care or they are dishonest and they don't want people to check their house seeds.

[karmamiu]

I'm not sure about that. They are now clearly aware of the so-called typo but they still haven't fixed it...
If an user is unable to check the fairness of the game with the datas provided by the house, it's a scam to call it a provably fair game.

Dude, only one day passed, give them some time.

Now 5 days have passed since OP has opened the thread. So what is your conclusion?
If they were serious they would have fixed the so-called typo without delay or they would halt the game if they are not able to fix it quickly.
But I think they don't care or they are dishonest and they don't want people to check their house seeds.

              It's quiet possible. They would be flooded with complaints if these are proven to be true. I recalled back then something also similar happen to mine, but i didn't really made it a big of a deal because my stakes are low to begin with, but in this case I guess the OP lose quiet an amount. If there is still no reply from them, might as well consider them cheating the OP that's what i think.

[Wexnident]

Its already been provided and its already been verified which do really shows a non-fairness thing and of course it do considered cheating.

Im wondering on why do op doesnt still share the name of said casino so that the majority would able to tell or verify for themselves about this non-fair place.

When we do talk about illegal or cheating then theres no doubt with that.

It's already been provided by the Op though.

Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

Anw, why does it seem like the support isn't that serious with the issue? Lmao, they can get the $5 back, just return the man's bet when the accident happened. Also dude, 0.4BTC and 2ETH is not a small amount. Converting that should get you around ~$4k or something. Anyway, they should at least return that much. It was an accident yes, but nonetheless the fault lies with them after all. And idk if it was a mistake or not, but a customer support message/feedback should NOT have any typos imo. What OP showed was the reply to him having the typo of bug > bag, which imo, shows how inattentive the person who replied was.

[michellee]

Im wondering on why do op doesnt still share the name of said casino so that the majority would able to tell or verify for themselves about this non-fair place.

The OP already mention the site:

Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

Anw, why does it seem like the support isn't that serious with the issue? Lmao, they can get the $5 back, just return the man's bet when the accident happened. Also dude, 0.4BTC and 2ETH is not a small amount. Converting that should get you around ~$4k or something. Anyway, they should at least return that much. It was an accident yes, but nonetheless the fault lies with them after all. And idk if it was a mistake or not, but a customer support message/feedback should NOT have any typos imo. What OP showed was the reply to him having the typo of bug > bag, which imo, shows how inattentive the person who replied was.

Maybe the support thinks that $5 is enough for the compensation for telling them the typo. But I don't know if that is enough or not because that will depend on the support itself. But concerning the typo itself, I think it is a serious matter that the support needs to be fixed, and I see from their site that the typo is still there, and it's not fixed yet.

[iTradeChips]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

First action is to contact any form of customer support of the said site and tell them what happened and show them what you've got during your observation. Wait for them to respond back, see if they will help you or advise you something else. If they insisting that there is no cheating happening, gather more information. If they stopped cheating on you, then it's up to you if you want to pursue it for other users or just continue playing. Legal works are kind of expensive nowadays, and not worth the hassle if we are talking losses of a 50 to 100 bucks. Just go to another site and use anonymous accounts and bad mouth the said site.

[iv4n]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

First action is to contact any form of customer support of the said site and tell them what happened and show them what you've got during your observation. Wait for them to respond back, see if they will help you or advise you something else. If they insisting that there is no cheating happening, gather more information. If they stopped cheating on you, then it's up to you if you want to pursue it for other users or just continue playing. Legal works are kind of expensive nowadays, and not worth the hassle if we are talking losses of a 50 to 100 bucks. Just go to another site and use anonymous accounts and bad mouth the said site.

He should do that first, to contact their support, to save that conversation and then to come here and share the entire story, the name of the site, screenshots of his bet, hash, entire talk with support. That would be something, like this it's just one more newbie complaining about losing his money in casino... one more thing support that claim, except his first opening post we didn't hear anything from him after.
It's true, there's no point for legal actions for some small amounts of money. But he can reveal the site to others, and if he can prove his claims that casino can lose some players!

[peter0425]

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

First action is to contact any form of customer support of the said site and tell them what happened and show them what you've got during your observation. Wait for them to respond back, see if they will help you or advise you something else. If they insisting that there is no cheating happening, gather more information. If they stopped cheating on you, then it's up to you if you want to pursue it for other users or just continue playing. Legal works are kind of expensive nowadays, and not worth the hassle if we are talking losses of a 50 to 100 bucks. Just go to another site and use anonymous accounts and bad mouth the said site.

He should do that first, to contact their support, to save that conversation and then to come here and share the entire story, the name of the site, screenshots of his bet, hash, entire talk with support. That would be something, like this it's just one more newbie complaining about losing his money in casino... one more thing support that claim, except his first opening post we didn't hear anything from him after.
It's true, there's no point for legal actions for some small amounts of money. But he can reveal the site to others, and if he can prove his claims that casino can lose some players!

That's the best point mate,because more than anyone only the support will give concrete answer or at least clarification.

and sending message here will only follow if he is not contented or thinking that the support does not addressed His concern properly .

remember that the legit sites always answers in full details to preserve their names.

[Debonaire217]

This is really tricky, most of the gamblers when they saw hash either SHA256 or 512, they already trust the platform without even verifying the outcomes of their bet.

Good action that you made this question OP, I hope you also provide the name of the gambling site for people to be aware.

If you could prove that the seed is different from the outcome, you should contact their customer service to settle this. Though it is also a good thing that you haven't provided the name of the platform, it is in your advantage to reveal it soon if they don't approve your appeal.

[traderethereum]

It's quiet possible. They would be flooded with complaints if these are proven to be true. I recalled back then something also similar happen to mine, but i didn't really made it a big of a deal because my stakes are low to begin with, but in this case I guess the OP lose quiet an amount. If there is still no reply from them, might as well consider them cheating the OP that's what i think.

Even if that is true, I am not sure they will get many complaints from people who play on their site because I think only a few people who have that experience.
So maybe some people will report this to the supports, and ask them to check it to find if there is something wrong or not that happens in the site.
I suggest OP move to another gambling site because of that bad experience because I think that experience will make him trauma to get another bad experience.
Once again, it is an important lesson for him, and he should not use big money to play gambling because if he loses all of that money, he will not have a big regret, and maybe he can playing other games.

[goaldigger]

Interesting accusation but I have seen the worse cases. Some gambling platforms prevent the user to take the server hash during the game or before and they put one line on terms&conditions about this rule or they limit the gambler how many times it is possible to request a new player side or server hash which prevents the server overload. Unless the site has a license which I doubt, we have no choice except to accept their rules for verifying game results.

Read the rules and regulations because most of the company hide something there and when the problem occurs, we have no choice but to follow the rules and regulations that we have accepted without even reading it on the first place. Irregularities with the gambling site can be form of cheating and a fraud, drop the name of gambling site so you can also warned the other players with this one, also better to provide a more evidence.

[adaseb]

I guess this thread is proof that most people NEVER verify their bets. Since Primedice is a huge site, its pretty crazy how this wasn't spotted by anybody else sooner. Another reason I can think of is that due to Primedice's reputation most people just trust them and don't bother verfying bets. I personally wouldn't. I only verify bets on a new or medium cap type of gambling sites.

I think what happened was the typo was made when they upgraded to the new PD version and somebody changed the text then. Because from what I recall it was SHA256 prior. EIther way he should get more than $5 in compensation even $50 would of been better.

[shoreno]

I guess this thread is proof that most people NEVER verify their bets. Since Primedice is a huge site, its pretty crazy how this wasn't spotted by anybody else sooner.

if they put like this more often they will only get caught so they put it rarely or when the moment that the gambler is playing for so many bets because that is imposible for a gambler to check all his created bets  . im not accusing them as scammers  . what i say is for those who are legit scam sites  . ive been a player too on this site and i dont doubt on them that much   .

Another reason I can think of is that due to Primedice's reputation most people just trust them and don't bother verfying bets. I personally wouldn't. I only verify bets on a new or medium cap type of gambling sites.

exactly  . not to mention checking bets is also tiring   , ive tried checking majority of my bets before on this site but all are okay  . no signs of scamming at all

[Saisher]

I can think of is that due to Primedice's reputation most people just trust them and don't bother verfying bets. I personally wouldn't. I only verify bets on a new or medium cap type of gambling sites.

I think what happened was the typo was made when they upgraded to the new PD version and somebody changed the text then. Because from what I recall it was SHA256 prior. EIther way he should get more than $5 in compensation even $50 would of been better.

We learned a lot from this and that is to check from time to time, it's ok to trust but we must keep in mind that even developers of this gambling sites can still commit error, of course we are not accusing them of cheating, it's just there is no such thing as perfect coding and perfect set up, we need to correct them and call them out.

[johhnyUA]

Now 5 days have passed since OP has opened the thread. So what is your conclusion?
If they were serious they would have fixed the so-called typo without delay or they would halt the game if they are not able to fix it quickly.
But I think they don't care or they are dishonest and they don't want people to check their house seeds.

I doubt that anyone read such trash threads in one of the most trashy branch of the forum. This is not even like "This_site is scam because they have a typo issue in their terms" in meaning that would bring attention (not for sure). But this is funny - you think that any gambling site reading any topic here.

You can report this problem directly to the site and then we will se what will they do.

[FontSeli]

Now 5 days have passed since OP has opened the thread. So what is your conclusion?
If they were serious they would have fixed the so-called typo without delay or they would halt the game if they are not able to fix it quickly.
But I think they don't care or they are dishonest and they don't want people to check their house seeds.

I doubt that anyone read such trash threads in one of the most trashy branch of the forum. This is not even like "This_site is scam because they have a typo issue in their terms" in meaning that would bring attention (not for sure). But this is funny - you think that any gambling site reading any topic here.

You can report this problem directly to the site and then we will se what will they do.

The author of the topic is unlikely to get any compensation from the site. I think he realized that a long time ago. He also failed to raise a fuss, because this is a common typo, and not a global hash scam. Therefore, the topic will roll into the trash until it is closed by the moderator.

[Hippocrypto]

I can think of is that due to Primedice's reputation most people just trust them and don't bother verfying bets. I personally wouldn't. I only verify bets on a new or medium cap type of gambling sites.

I think what happened was the typo was made when they upgraded to the new PD version and somebody changed the text then. Because from what I recall it was SHA256 prior. EIther way he should get more than $5 in compensation even $50 would of been better.

We learned a lot from this and that is to check from time to time, it's ok to trust but we must keep in mind that even developers of this gambling sites can still commit error, of course we are not accusing them of cheating, it's just there is no such thing as perfect coding and perfect set up, we need to correct them and call them out.

Transparency is very important, that's why we need to raise every concerns if we feel some problems like that. Indeed, gambling system had to face several issues on website improvement like transactions of withdrawal. Error and different types of network traffic should not be taken for granted, because it might hinder people from using the services.