US economy suffers worst decline as GDP contracts by 32.9% in the second quarter

[figmentofmyass]

... the US GDP has contracted by 32.9% in the second quarter...

It must be noted that the actual decline is 9.5% from the previous quarter. The 32.9% number assumes that the 9.5% decline continues for an entire year.

granted, but it was still the worst economic contraction in history by far---since they started keeping records anyway.

Things like evictions haven't gotten started yet and there's a whole wave of business death yet to come too.

Nobody knows where this going to end but it's going to get worse and take longer than initially expected.

i'm nervous to see what happens next. the beefed up unemployment payments are over. lots of moratoriums on evictions (including the one on federally subsidized housing) are ending. unemployment claims are on the rise again. this is all happening in the context of surging coronavirus outbreaks, which i expect to bring more economic slowdowns and retail closures.

it's upsetting to watch the stock markets pump at a time like this.

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[deisik]

it's upsetting to watch the stock markets pump at a time like this

Why is it upsetting?

Would you be happier if the stock market went crashing down? Many people sold out earlier, and they are not quite happy with Bitcoin surging today. But plunging stocks would bring down cryptocurrencies too. Maybe, that's what you are looking for? But the market always fools us. We sell at the bottom and buy at the top. That's life, if I can say so

[nancy]

Why EU is not suffering like USA from this virus?

[figmentofmyass]

it's upsetting to watch the stock markets pump at a time like this

Why is it upsetting?

because it shows the stock market is completely disconnected from company fundamentals. it's obviously just a game of greater fools. the fed prints money, the markets pump, and you can always sell higher.

the risk has almost been completely removed from stock investment---or rather it's been socialized across society. when investors are effectively bailed out at every turn, asset prices (like housing) more or less permanently rise. this keeps the propertied/investor class entrenched, keeps the have-nots from attaining property, and punishes all savers by devaluing our currency, further compounding the problem.

in a true free market, people who make bad investments and buy into grossly over inflated markets would pay the price for their mistakes. we shouldn't be bailing these investors out. if we're tossing around bailouts, we might as well go full blown socialist---at least then there is some commendable goal ("to each according to his needs"), as opposed to just kowtowing to the investor class and making sure they never lose money.

[deisik]

it's upsetting to watch the stock markets pump at a time like this

Why is it upsetting?

because it shows the stock market is completely disconnected from company fundamentals. it's obviously just a game of greater fools. the fed prints money, the markets pump, and you can always sell higher

Okay, let me rephrase my point

Would you be happy if Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went straight downhill? But it is essentially the same money. I mean the money that gets pumped into the stock market somehow makes its way into cryptocurrencies too. It seems that the link has been firmly established by now, and Bitcoin has become part of the bigger game. Figuratively speaking, you can take Bitcoin prices out of the stock market, but you can't take stock market prices out of Bitcoin anymore. The stock market price dynamic gets mirrored in Bitcoin's prices

[Lucius]

Why EU is not suffering like USA from this virus?

Maybe because the EU doesn't have Trump?

Joking aside, but I remember well when Trump claimed that COVID-19 was something like the common flu that would disappear with the arrival of spring. At that time, there were less than 20 confirmed infected people in the USA, but the fact is that no mass tests were conducted. Ignoring the problem and the stubborn policy of "No one can do anything to us" with the mass protests that took place due to the pandemic led to the virus spreading to the point where it can no longer be controlled.

The economic side of the story is quite clear, everyone, including the USA, pays the lockdown tax, and it should be added that the USA is in a trade war with China and that things are not going well when it comes to Russia. Taking into account all the other countries on their blacklist, it turns out that they have bad relations with half the world - while the other half cooperates with them out of fear.

But as someone has said before, there is no need to worry about the USA, they will get out of the crisis one way or another.

[Barnabe]

it's upsetting to watch the stock markets pump at a time like this

Why is it upsetting?

because it shows the stock market is completely disconnected from company fundamentals. it's obviously just a game of greater fools. the fed prints money, the markets pump, and you can always sell higher

Okay, let me rephrase my point

Would you be happy if Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went straight downhill?

I would tend to trust more a currency that is more related to the "real-world" economy. Bitcoin going down would show that there is less manipulation and no "big players" controlling the currency rates (unlike the USD for instance).

[gentlemand]

Why EU is not suffering like USA from this virus?

It is? If you add up deaths from only Spain Italy France and the UK the death figure is close. There's a lot less political noise though.

[KrisAlex18]

The economic recovery of the countries that are seriously affected by this pandemic like US is still no assurance to make happen this year because currently the country is still struggling to control the cases they have which still makes them at the top most of all the countries in the world having the most number of infected cases. With that, the country will need enough time to recover even if the vaccine will soon to be available, a big country like US will need to undergo certain adjustments before they can totally bounce back from the economic crisis and declination they are currently experiencing right now.

There is no doubt that US can bounce back for we all know that US is a big and rich country, surely it will bounce back but I doubt that it can make happen this year because they are strongly affected by the pandemic so it will take maybe almost a year to fully recover which will accumulated to last up to next year. All countries are capable of bouncing back not just US. It is just that it would take time depending on the approach that the government will exert to make recovery happen. It would vary on time but surely countries will recover its economic status right after passing through this pandemic.

[figmentofmyass]

because it shows the stock market is completely disconnected from company fundamentals. it's obviously just a game of greater fools. the fed prints money, the markets pump, and you can always sell higher.

Okay, let me rephrase my point

Would you be happy if Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went straight downhill? But it is essentially the same money. I mean the money that gets pumped into the stock market somehow makes its way into cryptocurrencies too.

it does, i'm sure.

i would be happier with an actual free market---free of government interference; everyone stands on their own two feet. let the chips fall where they may. i don't need the fed to pump bitcoin, either.

the selective bailouts just exasperate the economic divisions in society. by perpetually giving handouts and subsidies to corporations and people who aren't poor and refusing to ever let the markets organically crash, they are destroying all notions of upward mobility and meritocracy. at the risk of sounding like a pinko commie, this is all pretty clearly designed to entrench existing capital and property owners at the expense of everyone else.

[Yatsan]

That news was already not a surprising one for we all know that all countries are affected by the pandemic which tracked down to have a direct effect on the economic state of the country. We must expect that because of the pandemic, even the richest and biggest countries will suffer just like US that even it have a large land mass, it do also have a big population to be supported by the government. Surely the economic declination have been a result of the couple of months lockdown which brought business establishments to close down for a while to follow the preventive measures just to somehow be able to control the inflation rate of the infected cases that the US have. As of the moment, they still remain on the top that is why it is not a surprise that their economy is suffering right now.

There is no doubt that US can do bounce back after this crisis. It is just in need for the vaccine to be discovered to end this pandemic so that people can get back to work and all businesses and economic related works will start operating to be able for the economy to recover. This might not happen this year for the vaccine is still not available because those that have recently been discovered are still under testing. With the effect of the pandemic into the citizens and the economy of US, for sure it would take time for them to be able to fully recover. But rest assured, they will bounce back from scratch.

[alexforneus]

So, what will be year drop? 50%? How gov could allow so stupid isolation?

[bitbunnny]

Why EU is not suffering like USA from this virus?

EU is also suffering but has completely different approach to the pandemic. EU reacted very early and US was denying that something is actually happening. Alsow, EU started recovery programme for its economy and it's trying to support its member.states ro get out of pandemic and economic crysis. And what are US government and Trump doing? I think you know the master

[Vishnu.Reang]

Why EU is not suffering like USA from this virus?

EU is also suffering but has completely different approach to the pandemic. EU reacted very early and US was denying that something is actually happening. Alsow, EU started recovery programme for its economy and it's trying to support its member.states ro get out of pandemic and economic crysis. And what are US government and Trump doing? I think you know the master

Agreed. Most of the EU nations seems to have recovered from the pandemic. For example, each of the EU countries which were hit most severely (such as the UK, France, Italy and Spain) used to witness as much as 1,000 deaths per day. Now this figure is down to single digits. That is a 99% reduction (an exception would be the UK, where the reduction is only around 90%). On the other hand, in the United States the daily death toll is still hovering around 1,000-1,500.

[deisik]

Would you be happy if Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went straight downhill?

I would tend to trust more a currency that is more related to the "real-world" economy. Bitcoin going down would show that there is less manipulation and no "big players" controlling the currency rates (unlike the USD for instance)

I don't really think we can say that Bitcoin has more to do with the "real-world" economy than fiat (USD)

Seriously, how many goods and services can you buy with it? Not many. Bitcoin is mostly locked in its speculative bubble (okay, market), and if you think there's less manipulation going on, then think again. It is small, and, consequently, there's a lot more room for abuse by powerful entities (aka whales). It can't even be a point of serious discussion as a simple look at USDX versus Bitcoin price dynamic says all there's to say

[NotATether]

it does, i'm sure.

i would be happier with an actual free market---free of government interference; everyone stands on their own two feet. let the chips fall where they may. i don't need the fed to pump bitcoin, either.

the selective bailouts just exasperate the economic divisions in society. by perpetually giving handouts and subsidies to corporations and people who aren't poor and refusing to ever let the markets organically crash, they are destroying all notions of upward mobility and meritocracy. at the risk of sounding like a pinko commie, this is all pretty clearly designed to entrench existing capital and property owners at the expense of everyone else.

The disturbing thing is, it's not just banks and mortgage servicers getting bailouts, GM and Chrysler got bailouts from the Fed too, and never even payed them back.

According to this, GM has $11,308,238,095 outstanding in bailouts, Chrysler has $1,212,849,005 outstanding. And you wonder why auto companies need government bailouts as they don't have anything to do with finance.

[bitgolden]

It is not going to get any better any time soon. Trump has taken all of USA hostage nowadays and he is going "either my way or highway" which is going to either result with him getting 4 more years and you will see the country get better since he will allow it, or Biden will win and he will just fix it and make things better anyway, so after the elections in either way the country will get better, long term I would pick Biden but short term I feel like next summer we are going to have 1-2 deaths max per day in all the nation no matter who wins.

Economy obviously gets a hit from this, we are talking about record breaking unemployment rates and that is why I feel like there is a situation where it requires time no matter how you fix it, and with time we are going to see economy recovering but also a lot more people in poverty as well.

[Haunebu]

Most of the EU nations seems to have recovered from the pandemic. For example, each of the EU countries which were hit most severely (such as the UK, France, Italy and Spain) used to witness as much as 1,000 deaths per day. Now this figure is down to single digits. That is a 99% reduction (an exception would be the UK, where the reduction is only around 90%). On the other hand, in the United States the daily death toll is still hovering around 1,000-1,500.

It is true that the EU has recovered quite a bit since the pandemic hit the world, but their economies are in tatters in most places. Majority of the countries like Italy, Spain etc were already facing economic issues even before the pandemic struck them.

It will probably take many years for their economies to fully recover. On the other hand, countries like Australia and New Zealand are doing a spectacular job in comparison based on what I heard.

[deisik]

i would be happier with an actual free market---free of government interference; everyone stands on their own two feet. let the chips fall where they may. i don't need the fed to pump bitcoin, either

I don't think it is possible in the way you mean it

And I'm not sure either that you would be honestly happier with a genuinely free, anarchic market. Without government oversight (interference, as you call it), we would see an endless stream of scams like Mt. Gox, Cryptsy, BTC-e, to name but just a few. Put simply, it will be very far from "everyone standing on their own two feet". Rather, everyone and his little bro will be on their knees. You can't seriously hope to let the chips fall where they may. There will surely be someone who will take pains to make them fall in their favor

the selective bailouts just exasperate the economic divisions in society. by perpetually giving handouts and subsidies to corporations and people who aren't poor and refusing to ever let the markets organically crash, they are destroying all notions of upward mobility and meritocracy. at the risk of sounding like a pinko commie, this is all pretty clearly designed to entrench existing capital and property owners at the expense of everyone else

Meritocracy is over-hyped. You will still have to rely on the opinions of other people when gauging someone's merits. In fact, I'm not in the least surprised to see the term actively used as a handy euphemism for nepotism

[Vishnu.Reang]

It is true that the EU has recovered quite a bit since the pandemic hit the world, but their economies are in tatters in most places. Majority of the countries like Italy, Spain etc were already facing economic issues even before the pandemic struck them.

It will probably take many years for their economies to fully recover. On the other hand, countries like Australia and New Zealand are doing a spectacular job in comparison based on what I heard.

Italy and Spain were facing issues for quite some time. They are being kept afloat by Germany. Essentially after the departure of the United Kingdom, the EU has become a family business run by Angela Merkel. German fund inflows are keeping the other members alive. But in the long term, this is not going to be beneficial for countries such as Italy. Australia/New Zealand had a strong economy even before the pandemic. And with the mining industry in good condition, Australia has nothing to worry.