Netherlands pilot scheme to allow women to play in senior men's team

[Ucy]

Very unlikely, maybe there are some senior or premier teams that allow women to play together but the pilot doesn't feel like it will work because no other team has followed that way. Indeed, this is a form of gender equality but I don't think this kind of move would be right, what if there are parts that are accidentally touched, will it be a form of harassment in sports? There are already many women's leagues running, is that still not enough? So I think, not all things have to be done simultaneously, because there is still a chance for women to get a special women's league and that's enough for gender equality. Instead of women playing ball at the same time as men, why not the other way around like men playing with women in the women's league? lol

If it's a Male Team, then mixing both sexes in such Team won't be a good idea. I guess they could do  the mixing in some sort of mixed Team (Male & Female Team) . This will help in formulating rules that are suitable for Mixed Team.

[leea-1334]

Commenting on the discussions above about physical harassment, I have played in mixed teams many times (women plus men) in a few different sports and this has never ever become an issue. I think, even if it becomes an issue later, many men would defend and ostracize the offenders. That has no place in contact sport,,, so I believe it is not a big issue at least not in my culture where women are respected.

Love women's football:)

[Daniel91]

It seems that in this discussion we can't separate the question of the football skills of this girl, Elle Fokkem, and the fact that she is a young woman who plays football with men.
For me, the first question is whether this young girl deserves to play in this men's team at all or is she just a mascot or should she be an example for the future?
If the answer is yes (that she deserves to play alongside men because of her football skills), should a male player be given priority in her place, just because he is a man?
Only when we resolve this issue does it seem to me that it makes sense to move on to another question, can women play together with men in football?
I remember reading somewhere that in the Norwegian army men and women are treated equally and even sleep together in the same rooms (which means they work together without any problems, from mutual exercises, touching each other, taking off clothes before bed etc).
I think it's similar in football, that both men and women are professionals and they don't play for fun but for results, to win.
If a young woman shows that she is better than a man in a certain position in the team and can help the whole team, should she be excluded just because she is a woman?
And as for the possibility of sexually harassing a woman, or accidentally touching her intimate body parts during play, it seems to me that you forgot that she has been playing with men for a very long time, 10 years or more.
So far no such problems have been reported and she continues to play alongside the men without major problems.
I would say that this question has already been answered in practice.

EDIT: This article describes what it looks like when young women and men work and sleep together and this is obviously not a problem as some think:
https://www.todayonline.com/world/europe/norway-army-men-and-women-train-together-and-bunk-together
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_bm-j8ed4[url]]]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_bm-j8ed4[url]

[Ucy]

Commenting on the discussions above about physical harassment, I have played in mixed teams many times (women plus men) in a few different sports and this has never ever become an issue. I think, even if it becomes an issue later, many men would defend and ostracize the offenders. That has no place in contact sport,,, so I believe it is not a big issue at least not in my culture where women are respected.

Love women's football:)

Things will be quite different in club football where players spend much of their time together traveling, training, playing, in hotels, etc. I guess they will still be required to have seperate rooms, bathrooms, safety rules for different genders etc.

[imstillthebest]

If this was about some other game, then it could've been a success.

some other games where female are involved and there are also games that both female and male are involved like volleyball or tennis  but why not this event or this game for the first time ? this can be succesful if both men and women in the team involved will cooperate and train hard to beat the opposing team .

With soccer stamina is important, I don't say women doesn't have stamina but in a team a single women will surely fail against men. If the match is being lost, surely the responsibility or the rest of the players will simply point her as the reason.

the female can go with the flow together with the male's if she will practice her endurance and also strenghth because soccer is an intense game. they can blame the women if proven that its the womens fault on why they lost the match but if all feel that women plays excellently why will she be blamed ? thats wrong

[Mauser]

Commenting on the discussions above about physical harassment, I have played in mixed teams many times (women plus men) in a few different sports and this has never ever become an issue. I think, even if it becomes an issue later, many men would defend and ostracize the offenders. That has no place in contact sport,,, so I believe it is not a big issue at least not in my culture where women are respected.

Love women's football:)

Things will be quite different in club football where players spend much of their time together traveling, training, playing, in hotels, etc. I guess they will still be required to have seperate rooms, bathrooms, safety rules for different genders etc.

Yeah this will likely be the case, and much is such seperation going to affect the team? I think a lot of bonding between the teammates happens of the field, in the locker room, in the hotel, in the gyms. Maybe I am wrong but with different locations for different genders it might be harder to become a closed group. Not that I don't like womans football, there are some very talented girls out there who play really well. It's just that mixing genders seems wrong in my opinion. Same goes for transgender woman being part of female teams, it's just wrong.

[Lanatsa]

Commenting on the discussions above about physical harassment, I have played in mixed teams many times (women plus men) in a few different sports and this has never ever become an issue. I think, even if it becomes an issue later, many men would defend and ostracize the offenders. That has no place in contact sport,,, so I believe it is not a big issue at least not in my culture where women are respected.

Love women's football:)

Things will be quite different in club football where players spend much of their time together traveling, training, playing, in hotels, etc. I guess they will still be required to have seperate rooms, bathrooms, safety rules for different genders etc.

Yeah this will likely be the case, and much is such seperation going to affect the team? I think a lot of bonding between the teammates happens of the field, in the locker room, in the hotel, in the gyms. Maybe I am wrong but with different locations for different genders it might be harder to become a closed group. Not that I don't like womans football, there are some very talented girls out there who play really well. It's just that mixing genders seems wrong in my opinion. Same goes for transgender woman being part of female teams, it's just wrong.

Transgender on females team is definitely a no-no.We can really tell the difference when it comes to power yet those shemales are indeed stronger and on the other side

it isn't really just right for a male to be mixed into females locker or shower or whatsoever.This isn't really something not right to be tolerated on.

There are lots of boundaries that shouldn't really be break even though they are well trained or a good player but doesn't mean that they will be mixed up.
There should be separation between males and females no matter how good they are.

[kryptqnick]

If a woman wants to play with men and her skills are not worse than those of fellow men, I think it would be deeply unfair not to let her play there. After all, it should be about the skills, not gender. And men not allowing a woman to join a male team because she might be harassed is overprotective, and they should have no say in this. It's her choice, and it's the harassment that we should fight, not women trying to go beyond it and willing to take the risks. I think it's the right decision by the Dutch football federation to allow her to play just as in a youth team.

[Ucy]

Commenting on the discussions above about physical harassment, I have played in mixed teams many times (women plus men) in a few different sports and this has never ever become an issue. I think, even if it becomes an issue later, many men would defend and ostracize the offenders. That has no place in contact sport,,, so I believe it is not a big issue at least not in my culture where women are respected.

Love women's football:)

Things will be quite different in club football where players spend much of their time together traveling, training, playing, in hotels, etc. I guess they will still be required to have seperate rooms, bathrooms, safety rules for different genders etc.

Yeah this will likely be the case, and much is such seperation going to affect the team? think a lot of bonding between the teammates happens of the field, in the locker room, in the hotel, in the gyms. Maybe I am wrong but with different locations for different genders it might be harder to become a closed group. Not that I don't like womans football, there are some very talented girls out there who play really well. It's just that mixing genders seems wrong in my opinion. Same goes for transgender woman being part of female teams, it's just wrong.

I think both genders can freely mix together in open places, like field, conference room, hall, and other open places that matters in their football career. I don't think mingling in private rooms, toilet, hidden places etc will help their career.
If i have a female child who is talented in football and a club wants her to play for them, I will make sure the club will protects my child from harm and abuse. Those boundaries will likely protect her.

[bonjouros]

I didn't know if this will bring a positive feedback to the audience or it will receive an opposite feedback if Netherlands will allow women to play in senior men's team.

Maybe it is understandable if they can just create a different divisions that are exclusively for men and women only if they are serious in bringing women to Football. Well I voted to No way even if the Dutch Football Association already approved the pilot scheme that will allow a women to play in football as I didn't like the way it is even if others wants to watch the game.

[dre1982]

Well the idea is great but I don't think it will happen that often.

Maybe we will see just 1 or 2 women playing for some lower ranked teams. I don't expect that clubs like Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord will play with a woman in their first team.

It interesting how the opponent would react. Maybe they will make less faults against the women.

[Ucy]

I didn't know if this will bring a positive feedback to the audience or it will receive an opposite feedback if Netherlands will allow women to play in senior men's team.

Maybe it is understandable if they can just create a different divisions that are exclusively for men and women only if they are serious in bringing women to Football. Well I voted to No way even if the Dutch Football Association already approved the pilot scheme that will allow a women to play in football as I didn't like the way it is even if others wants to watch the game.

Ofcourse, I felt thesame way when I first came across this thread. But the reason they gave is quite convincing and reasonable. I however think the disadvantages could outweigh the advantage if safety measures are not put in place to prevent/reduce problems that could result from the mixing. I wonder if they can sustain effective safety measures though.

[Alucard1]

I don't think that it would be possible to happen, we know the difference between male and female in terms of strength and football is such a game that requires a strength of a player to have the advantage to win, if a girl is in the field then I don't think that she can do more with some other guys, girls are for girls only and boys are for boys only in the world of football, it would be weird if they were mixed up even though only one girl will be in the field.

[dre1982]

The woman national team of the USA is the best women soccer team in the World. But they can't even win against a U-15 youth team. So I don't expect any women to join a first team of a professional soccer team. It's maybe good for some amateur clubs but that's it.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

[JohnBitCo]

Most harassment is only used for women and it is very few occasions where we see that male are harassed by females. Due to different physical structure of men and women, it will not be a good idea to include females in male teams.

You are right buddy even if men do not have intention to touch the woman's body or harass it because of the game, people who will see it will feel offended, because in other country where society is sensitive to women they will feel offended, the league should understand this, man and woman are not created equal in some ways and it's something that is hard to ignore.

Oh common, the women who will play in the men's teams will know all about these consequences and will not mind that. We already have some matches where men and women play together like tennis etc.  Although both teams competing should have female players and not only one team contain female gender.

[Daniel91]

Most harassment is only used for women and it is very few occasions where we see that male are harassed by females. Due to different physical structure of men and women, it will not be a good idea to include females in male teams.

You are right buddy even if men do not have intention to touch the woman's body or harass it because of the game, people who will see it will feel offended, because in other country where society is sensitive to women they will feel offended, the league should understand this, man and woman are not created equal in some ways and it's something that is hard to ignore.

Oh common, the women who will play in the men's teams will know all about these consequences and will not mind that. We already have some matches where men and women play together like tennis etc.  Although both teams competing should have female players and not only one team contain female gender.

I think that something like this could happen in the future and that this decision in the Netherlands is just the beginning and not the end or the exception.
Women are slowly getting the opportunity to play in all, even the most demanding sports such as MMA for example and the public is becoming more open to the possibility of women competing on an equal footing with men.
Women are becoming physically stronger and closer to the physical capabilities of men, and because of this, the door will slowly open in men's sports for them as well.

[fiulpro]

The woman national team of the USA is the best women soccer team in the World. But they can't even win against a U-15 youth team. So I don't expect any women to join a first team of a professional soccer team. It's maybe good for some amateur clubs but that's it.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Wow
Opening old topic just to disrespect .
You should understand for a fact that women are never given equal opportunities, they are always facing much more hardships as compared to men's team. Even paid so less. Not even taken into consideration most of the time.

This is the proof.
--
See there are women stronger than man , yes they exist! It's more of a personal point of view and when we are talking about harassment I do think every player faces harassment on the field not just women. Right now India Vs Australia was a really clear example of such case.

Therefore if they do agree to something like that I think they would be ready for such cases in the future and would accept it.

[Saisher]

I voted no way not because I'm sexist but they differ very much in their physical appearance and make up, and besides there are women's right and they will sound foul whenever they see women getting hurt, they have their own league so why not make their league competitive and leave the men's league on their own.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

I'm not a sexist. But allowing women to play in senior men's teams is inappropriate, even though they have the same skills as men in playing football because they might fall into an accident in playing this sport that could lead to sexual harassment. So it will be better if women and men should have a football league of their own for them not to have any conflict with the fans and women's rights.

[k@suy]

I voted no way not because I'm sexist but they differ very much in their physical appearance and make up, and besides there are women's right and they will sound foul whenever they see women getting hurt, they have their own league so why not make their league competitive and leave the men's league on their own.

My only concern would be in terms of physical build because overall men are physically stronger than women and, in the play, if you use little power to push, they can fall and it can hurt them. Though in the fast-paced game you might not do it intentionally but how will it be proven if it was done intentionally or not. Else its fine to do a pilot test tun and see how it goes.

I didn't doubt of woman's capability to join in such kind of game, which in fact woman today are phenomenal woman who are already proven that they can do anything, and they can be also powerful in thoughts and in deeds. But yesh i will agree with you mate in the insight that womans endurances and physical strong was incomparable to man. When it comes to this certain topic we couldn't question the superiority of man at these aspect. However it may only my opinion, we'll see if these thing happens.