Russia plan to use untested vaccine against the coronavirus

[Jet Cash]

Because real virus has a potency to kill you.

So far nobody has been able to provide details of a healthy person who has died from the virus. I believe there have been Covid deaths from people that have received regular 'flu vaccinations, and who take Tylenol.

[squatz1]

It's training  your immune cells to recognize viruses and kill them.

So why not wait until you are infected with the real virus, and not some synthetic variant. That will give you better protection, and avoid the side effects.

Because real virus has a potency to kill you. The power of  good vaccine is not sufficient for that. The problem is to develop such vaccine that would train body against specific virus and at the same time wouldn’t  threaten  body itself.

+1 to that. There's no way we can reach herd immunity without killing a lot of people who don't need to die. What we need to do is follow proper safety protocols and wait for a vaccine to work.

Herd immunity is a pipe dream. It won't work and it'll kill many more people. We'd literally have to have another 12M or so cases, just in NY, to achieve herd immunity.

[Jet Cash]

Vaccines are the pipe dream. They kill and maim people just to enrich the pharma companies. Anyone who injects poison and disease into a healthy kid under the age of 5 should be locked up. Kids need to be exposed to millions of viruses and germs to build strong immune systems. We've evolved to handle it, so don't screw it up to give Bill Gates a few more billions.

How can a baby without an immune system benefit from having disease injected into it?

[enhu]

Vaccines are the pipe dream. They kill and maim people just to enrich the pharma companies. Anyone who injects poison and disease into a healthy kid under the age of 5 should be locked up. Kids need to be exposed to millions of viruses and germs to build strong immune systems. We've evolved to handle it, so don't screw it up to give Bill Gates a few more billions.

How can a baby without an immune system benefit from having disease injected into it?

Somehow I believe kids are to be expose to bacterias for immune system to know how to protect the body but there are just vaccines that works and very needed for a person like the polio vaccine so a person won't end up with disabilities. We can't just put our trust to the quack doctors we use to believe. There are no shamans in new generations and they are just not familiar with what the shamans know centuries ago.

[Jet Cash]

I thought they had given up on the polio vaccine because it created more cases than it cured.

[squatz1]

It's training  your immune cells to recognize viruses and kill them.

So why not wait until you are infected with the real virus, and not some synthetic variant. That will give you better protection, and avoid the side effects.

Because real virus has a potency to kill you. The power of  good vaccine is not sufficient for that. The problem is to develop such vaccine that would train body against specific virus and at the same time wouldn’t  threaten  body itself.

+1 to that.

Not sure why there is so much debate regarding vaccines and their usage, even on the most basic levels. People get vaccines because obtaining immunity in a way that isn;t going to kill them.

If obtaining immunity was as easy as getting everyone sick and there would be no downsides, then we wouldn't have needed immunity because the disease / sickness in question isn't lethal enough to people.

A vaccine is better then achieving herd immunity through 70-80% of the population getting COVID.

[BADecker]

Because real virus has a potency to kill you.

So far nobody has been able to provide details of a healthy person who has died from the virus. I believe there have been Covid deaths from people that have received regular 'flu vaccinations, and who take Tylenol.

I haven't heard of a healthy person who got the virus.     

[BADecker]

It's training  your immune cells to recognize viruses and kill them.

So why not wait until you are infected with the real virus, and not some synthetic variant. That will give you better protection, and avoid the side effects.

Because real virus has a potency to kill you. The power of  good vaccine is not sufficient for that. The problem is to develop such vaccine that would train body against specific virus and at the same time wouldn’t  threaten  body itself.

If you are a reasonably healthy person, you have way more potential of dying in a car accident than of Covid.

[squatz1]

It's training  your immune cells to recognize viruses and kill them.

So why not wait until you are infected with the real virus, and not some synthetic variant. That will give you better protection, and avoid the side effects.

Because real virus has a potency to kill you. The power of  good vaccine is not sufficient for that. The problem is to develop such vaccine that would train body against specific virus and at the same time wouldn’t  threaten  body itself.

If you are a reasonably healthy person, you have way more potential of dying in a car accident than of Covid.

.....

You have a higher chance of being killed in a car accident then dying of lung cancer / liver failure. Does that mean we shouldn't treat people who are dying of these two different causes of death/illness?
You have a higher chance of dying from one thing then of many other things. I get the reasonably healthy part, but we don't just disregard death because the person is unhealthy.

But the problem is that people aren't understanding that achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is going to cause a LOT of NEEDLESS DEATH and ILLNESS.

As I said in another thread, if you want to achieve herd immunity in a state like NY you need another 8M or so people to get COVID. That means tons and tons of people in hospitals and tens of thousands of more at risk people are going to die.

[franky1]

jetcash / badecker mindset

'we think that only 10% of people hit by a car die from it. so we want everyone to walk into the road and get hit' .. 'we want people to avoid learning to spot the signs of an oncoming car. we want people to not learn about the dangers of cars from other safer methods. we want people to get run over'

those idiotic thoughts sounds like jetcash/badecker are the eugenics guys that want to sell pharma chemical..

the US/UK government are not selling medication to citizens. because.. there is no medication people can take as a daily supplement

the US/UK government are not telling people to get sick and risk death via eugenics plans
yet idiots like jetcash/badecker are pasting in script from their cultish websites that have all the hallmarks of the things they pretend they aint

[BADecker]

It's training  your immune cells to recognize viruses and kill them.

So why not wait until you are infected with the real virus, and not some synthetic variant. That will give you better protection, and avoid the side effects.

Because real virus has a potency to kill you. The power of  good vaccine is not sufficient for that. The problem is to develop such vaccine that would train body against specific virus and at the same time wouldn’t  threaten  body itself.

If you are a reasonably healthy person, you have way more potential of dying in a car accident than of Covid.

.....

You have a higher chance of being killed in a car accident then dying of lung cancer / liver failure. Does that mean we shouldn't treat people who are dying of these two different causes of death/illness?
You have a higher chance of dying from one thing then of many other things. I get the reasonably healthy part, but we don't just disregard death because the person is unhealthy.

But the problem is that people aren't understanding that achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is going to cause a LOT of NEEDLESS DEATH and ILLNESS.

As I said in another thread, if you want to achieve herd immunity in a state like NY you need another 8M or so people to get COVID. That means tons and tons of people in hospitals and tens of thousands of more at risk people are going to die.

We should absolutely do what we can about anything. The danger isn't a virus. The danger is the pandemic that is shutting everything down. The pandemic isn't based on a virus. It's based on fear. You can't cure fear with a vaccine. The vaccine won't be even 10% effective. Shut down the pandemic. That should be the new pandemic... shutting down the pandemic.

[franky1]

lockdown not the same as pandemic

pandemic is about the negative health thing hurting people around the world
the virus is the 'negative health thing'
the lockdown is the action to surpress the negative health thing FROM OVERRUNNING hospitals

if there was no risk of a hospital overrun. there would be no lockdown
but it would still be classed as a pandemic if people around the world were getting sick enough to affect their life even if they didnt get sick enough to need hospital

if no one was getting sick. then there would be no pandemic and nothing to need immunisation against

[BADecker]

People die of all kinds of things. Since the pandemic of fear of a weak and unimportant virus called Covid is what the lockdowns are all about, what are the lockdowns producing? Oh yes. Destruction of nations and economies and people. Lockdown pandemic.

[squatz1]

lockdown not the same as pandemic

pandemic is about the negative health thing hurting people around the world
the virus is the 'negative health thing'
the lockdown is the action to surpress the negative health thing FROM OVERRUNNING hospitals

if there was no risk of a hospital overrun. there would be no lockdown
but it would still be classed as a pandemic if people around the world were getting sick enough to affect their life even if they didnt get sick enough to need hospital

if no one was getting sick. then there would be no pandemic and nothing to need immunisation against

+1 to that.

I'm unsure of what the conspiracy is here surrounding COVID. Do people think that it really isn't that bad and that the government is making all of this up to have us in a panic? Or that the hospitals are making all of this up so they can make more money? Do they notice the sheer amount of people who would have to be in on it to make this thing happen? You'd need tens of millions of people in on this.

Back onto the topic of Russia though - Their vaccine is bullshit, end of thread.

[Cnut237]

I thought they had given up on the polio vaccine because it created more cases than it cured.

This is quite a provocative statement.


_{https://www.cdc.gov/polio/images/maps/endemicpolio19882018_final02.png}

They gave up on the polio vaccine because it worked so well, and polio has been almost eradicated globally. As of 2020 it remains endemic in only Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Polio was once a disease feared worldwide, striking suddenly and paralysing mainly children for life. WHO is a partner in the Global Polio Eradication Initiative, the largest private-public partnership for health, which has reduced polio by 99%. Polio now survives only among the world's poorest and most marginalized communities, where it stalks the most vulnerable children. The Initiative's goal is to reach every last child with polio vaccine and ensure a polio-free world for future generations.

_{https://www.who.int/features/factfiles/polio/en/}

And please don't try to use vaccine-derived polio as a counter-argument; the evidence there is conclusive (my bold):

On rare occasions, if a population is seriously under-immunized, an excreted vaccine-virus can continue to circulate for an extended period of time. The longer it is allowed to survive, the more genetic changes it undergoes. In very rare instances, the vaccine-virus can genetically change into a form that can paralyse – this is what is known as a circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV).

It takes a long time for a cVDPV to occur. Generally, the strain will have been allowed to circulate in an un- or under-immunized population for a period of at least 12 months. Circulating VDPVs occur when routine or supplementary immunization activities (SIAs) are poorly conducted and a population is left susceptible to poliovirus, whether from vaccine-derived or wild poliovirus. Hence, the problem is not with the vaccine itself, but low vaccination coverage. If a population is fully immunized, they will be protected against both vaccine-derived and wild polioviruses.

Since 2000, more than 10 billion doses of OPV have been administered to nearly 3 billion children worldwide. As a result, more than 13 million cases of polio have been prevented, and the disease has been reduced by more than 99%. During that time, 24 cVDPV outbreaks occurred in 21 countries, resulting in fewer than 760 VDPV cases.

Until 2015, over 90% of cVDPV cases were due to the type 2 component in OPV. With the transmission of wild poliovirus type 2 already successfully interrupted since 1999, in April 2016 a switch was implemented from trivalent OPV to bivalent OPV in routine immunization programmes. The removal of the type 2 component of OPV is associated with significant public health benefits, including a reduction of the risk of cases of cVDPV2.

The small risk of cVDPVs pales in significance to the tremendous public health benefits associated with OPV. Every year, hundreds of thousands of cases due to wild polio virus are prevented. Well over 10 million cases have been averted since large-scale administration of OPV began 20 years ago.

Circulating VDPVs in the past have been rapidly stopped with 2–3 rounds of high-quality immunization campaigns. The solution is the same for all polio outbreaks: immunize every child several times with the oral vaccine to stop polio transmission, regardless of the origin of the virus.

_{https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/what-is-vaccine-derived-polio}


Although someone might have to quote me in order for Jet Cash to see it, as I think he has me on ignore (I'm pro-vaccine and anti-Brexit)

[Questat]

All eyes on Russia now as they will be the first country to roll out the vaccine, hopefully it will be a success and no complications or side effect that people will feel, otherwise they might have trouble here. I thought vaccine needs years to develop based on what I read but here we are, one country is ahead of the others. Something to watch for...................

[Jet Cash]

Although someone might have to quote me in order for Jet Cash to see it, as I think he has me on ignore (I'm pro-vaccine and anti-Brexit)

I don't have you on ignore. I don't ignore people just because they have different opinions, and I welcome good logical debates. However, unless you are a member of the Eton/Oxford elite, it is difficult how one can believe that membership of the failing EU can be beneficial. I can find no good independent research that proves that vaccines are superior to natural immunity, and they seem to word by an inferior approach to mimic the natural processes.

[Cnut237]

I can find no good independent research that proves that vaccines are superior to natural immunity, and they seem to word by an inferior approach to mimic the natural processes.

Do you disagree that global polio cases have reduced dramatically since the vaccine programme started up?
Natural immunity had thousands of years to work to eradicate the virus, and was profoundly and tragically unsuccessful.
As for Covid-19, what is your opinion on the concept of viral load?

unless you are a member of the Eton/Oxford elite, it is difficult how one can believe that membership of the failing EU can be beneficial.

The reason I wanted to remain in the EU was actually because I despise the Eton/Oxford elite, and their political manifestation, the Conservative party. The EU, whilst by no means perfect, was at least a brake on Tory excesses.

I don't have you on ignore.

Damn it. This is profoundly humbling. I'd assumed your lack of engagement with my clever and insightful responses in your various threads over the last couple of years was because I was on ignore. Nope. Turns out I wasn't actually being clever or insightful...

[Salauddin1994]

If Russia really plans to use unwanted vaccines against the coronavirus, it could make a lot of progress in controlling the virus the cause of the epidemic is that the lockdown has thrown all the people of the world into a crisis. Maintaining a normal life including earning money has become difficult. Although the epidemic is negative the vaccine is given to prevent the virus will make a positive difference.

[iyamoxjhian]

It will be tested in my country..well I cant blame the government as they wanted to stop the huge and increasing number of infected so they want it to be test right away even though it was not yet done with its 4th step the massive clinical trial.. But I cant blame my fellowmen because its hard to trust anyone nowadays..it seems that your enemy is everywhere..for now its better to do and follow precautinary measures for not to be infected by the virus..