Germany Continues Shutting All Unlicensed Bitcoin ATMs

[20kevin20]

The conspiracy/negativity ideas are nonsense imo - again, this doesn't make Bitcoin seem bad in any way. It's humans doing it, not Bitcoin.. nor did BTC somehow support this.

While it's somewhat surprising to imagine there are many illegally running ATMs in Germany, it doesn't seem like much of a headache for the operator to achieve it. I could bet it would be even easier to run illegal ones here in Romania.

As an addition to what stompix just wrote above: not only do you "grant yourself permission" but you're also able to run your code from start to end, meaning you don't even have to connect anything to institutions such as banks in order to process your txs - making them even harder to be noticed. All you need is the virtual currency (BTC) and some place for cash deposits.

[adzino]

-snip-

who the own of that bitcoin atm anyway? that mush be rich person by now unregulated things mean no taxes right

Yes, unregulated means that those ATMs do not fall under any laws, so any transaction made through or profits earned from the ATMs does not need to be declared and no taxes are to be paid (though to be on the safe side, you must declare your profit but you still won't have to pay taxes).
And this is going to be a huge problem. People will then be using those ATMs to launder money and evade taxes. If you read the post properly, you will see that the ATMs in Germany is being regulated now. The person/group operating those ATM were ordered to shut it down or get a proper license. They didn't. Even if they did make a lot of money from the ATMs, they still will have to pay the taxes no matter what. Death and taxes, both are inevitable. You can't any of those.

[carlisle1]

It's not really surprising since the Bitcoin ATM was illegal so it should not operate so the government should shut it down.

What's really surprising is how they open Bitcoin ATM without even getting permission or license for it, Still, the news could easily turn bad for every people who don't know bitcoin since it is again involved in some illegal activities. Most of the people is having a bad impression to bitcoin because of this news.

I think there must be transparency of information between related parties regarding this matter. Indeed, companies and governments must work together to make things look good, if it turns out to be bad news like this, I think it's true that people will have a bad view of bitcoin.

That negative effects from those people who doesn't understand bitcoin will imply that
this business is illegally done from their place.

There should be a good communication between the government and people who already
embrace bitcoin and make this currency being used and facilitate to their respected places.

Rules needs to be reviewed and needs to assess carefully so both sides will benefits in the long run,
government needs to hear out what the people  are asking in terms of heavy implemented rules.

[imstillthebest]

I think there must be transparency of information between related parties regarding this matter. Indeed, companies and governments must work together to make things look good, if it turns out to be bad news like this, I think it's true that people will have a bad view of bitcoin.

this is a bad news because there are people that don't follow rules , it's thier fault and why will the government make  the situation less bad ? That will look like they are being paid if they do that but no they are doing their jobs correctly .

It's up to the people around that witness this situation if they think negative or positive , they can ask for the details of what happen to know the real truth

[ShowOff]

It doesnt matter if the government or the authorities prohibit the operation of ATM that are not in accordance with local regulation. I think the crypto regulation there are quite helpful for crypto user, especially bitcoin, because they can use them if they get permission. If the service provider has received permission from the government, user can enjoy this service as long as it does not violate the rules.

[Sanugarid]

Germany is looking good in terms of cryptocurrency acceptance, I've heard they already have a law with cryptocurrencies and Germans are using it frequently. Shutting down these unlicensed bitcoin ATMs is a normal thing to do by the authority I mean if they aren't licensed, they don't have documents or permit to operate such thing, why would the authorities let them run and evade taxes? I mean it is not just with bitcoin ATMs, I'm pretty sure this all goes the same as the other businesses out there. This is a disrespect in my opinion, to the government, they already turn it on and there are people who wants to do it illegally. 

[Lauda]

This is good as it will protect the consumers from shady ATMs.

1. this is somewhat old news
2. unlicensed operators in Germany are just putting their machines in new locations instead (and changing the company name/branding)

Germany is indeed a big market for ATMs, so it makes it quite easy for the machines to hide amongst the crowd

They can be very fast at times. One way to protect against this is to also punish the entity that accepts the ATM placement.

[wxa7115]

It may be a part of larger conspiracy against bitcoin or may not be! But if a government has a set regulation to be follower for all crypto related businesses, that must be followed! Businesses in Germany are lucky because they at least have a guideline to follow while in majority of the other countries, guidelines don't exist and regulators are free to make up any charges against the illegal business operators.

If the rule is very strict for a small business to follow, then that can be addressed through various legislative channels, but ignoring the existing legislation and continuing to run the business, won't definitely bring good results!

There is nothing to do but to follow the regulations put in place, this is not really a crackdown as they are not shutting down every single bitcoin ATM they are closing those that are not licensed, I know it is a pain and this is a blow against bitcoin adoption precisely at the moment when the market seems to be gaining some momentum, and while it could be related and it could be a manoeuvre to try to curb that tendency at the end they are on the right.

Bitcoin does not give us a license to not abide by the law especially if you are going to offer services to convert bitcoin to fiat or vice versa.

[Kelvinid]

There is no question with that, of course, it needs a license in order to operate is which the authorities find it missing. What they doing is a fair thing to do and should the owners must have to follow as what it required. It is actually the operator/owner must have to know that and accomplish it before to start. And they also need to understand the situation because they are just imposing as what it is mandated by the law and the regulations must be followed. It is the operator's lapses and they are the only one to blame. 

[iTradeChips]

I really do not see anything wrong in the shutting down of the said illegal and unregulated ATM's. It only means that the German government is serious about Bitcoin and wants to be sure that all cryptocurrency operators will follow the government regulations. Illegal ATM's are simply what it is - illegal. So it is obvious that if there is no sanction from the government then it will be prohibited by the government from operating.

[cheezcarls]

The Federal Financial Regulation Authority (FFSA) or BaFin, the body responsible for overseeing cryptocurrency service providers, was in the midst of cracking down on both illegal and unregulated Bitcoin ATMs.

According to a Bitcoinnews.com article, the closure accompanies a regulation that took effect last January ordering crypto-service operators to receive BaFin authorization.

German BaFin regulators have found a range of illegal Bitcoin ATMs running in Germany, and at least one firm, the Estonia-licensed Virtual Planet OÜ operated by the Shitcoin Club, has issued an order to halt the activity of Bitcoin ATMs in the region, according to the article.

Another central Bitcoin ATM provider, Coin Fellows, was told to stop all activities in Germany by the end of July.

Bitcoin traders in Germany opposed the closure, arguing that the BaFin criteria are too stringent for small enterprises and are best appropriate to banks and major financial entities.

The U.S. Department of Justice has already started cracking down on illegal bitcoin ATMs and recently confiscated 17 computers in California, according to the article.

I honestly think that it was a great move by Germany. If they want Bitcoin ATMs to be fully operational in Germany, they have to be registered, licensed and regulated by the government. I think that really makes sense.

Just like here in the Philippines, my friend introduced me to a CEO of a crypto company somewhere in Quezon City. Inside his office, he had like 10 crypto ATMs displayed. The last time I remembered, he told us that these Bitcoin ATMs cannot be fully operational yet, as he needs to comply with the requirements by the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP).

If I want to have my own Bitcoin ATM, I would not hesitate to comply with the legal requirements to make it fully operational in the country.

[buwaytress]

Like Carlton says, it isn't exactly fresh news. AMLD5 had always been looming and I said in some other thread they had been doing the same in Netherlands. Should have been earlier if not for Covid, which gave them an unexpected grace period.

It could be a slight miswording too, not a ban, but a hold on the machines till they implement kyc/aml procedures. That's how it is in NL.

[DdmrDdmr]

Well it seems to have taken it’s toll on the number of ATMs available in Germany, according to Coinatmradar. The number of Bitcoin ATMs listed for Germany is currently 15 (https://coinatmradar.com/country/80/bitcoin-atm-germany/). On the second of May 2020, the number was 68 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200502151657/https://coinatmradar.com/country/80/bitcoin-atm-germany/). Quite a drop, and a small number in either case.

@Lucius reported 50 yesterday on his post on this same thread, so I wonder if they’ve cleansed the list over the past 24 hours (unless it was a typo 15->50).

[Yatsan]

Shutting down all those unlicensed Bitcoin ATMs in Germany are just fine for this serve as regulations to provide people legitimate services to avoid people getting victimized by scams and so that if any issues related to the usage of Bitcoin ATMs can be easily tracked down. I see no problem on shutting down all those ATMs for it is said to be the regulation in the country which is basically needed to be followed. Since it is unlicensed, then it is supposedly not doing any operations for the fact that whether it is a Bitcoin ATM or a fiat ATM, it must be registered for it shows the legitimacy of the ATM itself to provide a safe service for the people using it and to show that they are sincere on providing trusted services so that people will worry less on doing transaction specially working it with Bitcoin. First and foremost if you want your Bitcoin ATMs to become operational you must follow the set rules and regulations to be able to comply to the set standards by the government for they are just wanting a safe service to be provided for the people having legitimacy on it.

[joinfree]

I think it's good if public Automated Teller Machines for bitcoin transactions are licensed. I am sure, through all this regulations and registration it is going to make sure that the ATM is well and functioning so that people's funds don't get locked up without them being paid back their bitcoins.

[MCobian]

What the German government has done is not wrong, if there is an unlicensed Bitcoin ATM, of course it must be shutdown.
Because it has violated regulations, the German government is doing this not because it is against the spread of Bitcoin ATMs,
but is carrying out applicable regulations in order to protect citizens from scammers. Because every Bitcoin ATM with license is
safer and less risky, because of the protection consumer rights from the German government.

[arditiyan]

Licensing in Germany is the main thing why Bitcoin ATM is banned in Germany. maybe the company that owns the ATM machine should try to synergize with the government so that it can get a license and be able to set up a bitcoin ATM machine anywhere in Germany

[Rengga Jati]

The Federal Financial Regulation Authority (FFSA) or BaFin, the body responsible for overseeing cryptocurrency service providers, was in the midst of cracking down on both illegal and unregulated Bitcoin ATMs.

According to a Bitcoinnews.com article, the closure accompanies a regulation that took effect last January ordering crypto-service operators to receive BaFin authorization....

It is very reasonable things that the Germany regulator shuts down the unregulated or illegal Bitcoin ATMs. Moreover, there are many. Additionally, if there have been rules about it, why should be illegal? The strength of the government can really force the companies to make the  ATM legal based on country regulation. In this case, if the ATM is also legal, the users will be safer and believe more on the ATM.  As we can see that the country has welcomed the crypto very well. And if there is a new rule, there should be followed in order to take the responsible and get along for better usage and services.

[ilovealtcoins]

I think this is a very normal move. The government created laws to protect the interests of the country and the people, but besides, everyone needs to comply with the law. Unauthorized placement of a bitcoin ATM is against the law and it must be dealt with. I think that organizations that install bitcoin ATMs need to get government permission before installation.

[Latviand]

Another wrong use of bitcoin adoption that can affect the whole bitcoin community.

This can worsen the bitcoin adoption and make it slower for us to achieve it. They have the opportunity to make more bitcoin ATMs and make it operate properly but the case is not like that. Germany just did their thing here, all of the crypto-related activities should be done legally so that there will be no problem with us using bitcoin.

The owner should comply with the papers, verify it and make it into a licensed bitcoin ATM so that they can have more customers.

Guidelines, rules, and regulations must be observed first and not all countries are given an opportunity to build a Bitcoin ATM, so as much as possible they should follow the laws to avoid struggles like this.