Bitcoin maximalists are doing more harm to the crypto space than good ?

[BitcoinFX]

Bitcoin maximalists are doing more harm to the crypto space than good ?

Discuss ...

"maximalist
noun
a person who favors a radical and immediate approach to the achievement of a set of goals or the completion of a program."

- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/maximalist

...

Bitcoin is not a "game" that can be completed. It is a protocol and eco-system of digital cash and a store-of-value (i.e. digital gold).

Bitcoin (BTC) is the first digital commodity money of the internet.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money

Bitcoin's monetary (intrinsic) value is primarily derived from electricity, cryptography (math) and time. Markets (and arguably $ price) are secondary.

The very first Bitcoin exchange rates were established as such (before this, Bitcoin remained entirely valueless) ...

- http://newlibertystandard.wikifoundry.com/page/Exchange+Rate

"The exchange rate is the average of the adjusted bitcoin production per day divided by the average production costs per day. The per day averages start with the previous day and will eventually extend back 365 days, but until then, they increase by half a day each day by taking the average of two averages. Production costs consist of the price of broadband Internet and metered electricity. The adjusted bitcoin production is the following spreadsheet calculation =if(M2>N2,((B2+F2)/2)*(1/(3-((N2/M2)*2))),((B2+F2)/2)*(3-((M2/N2)*2))) where M2 is the available balance of dollars times the exchange rate of that same day, N2 is the available balance of bitcoins, B2 is the amount of bitcoins produced the previous day and F2 is the average of the adjusted bitcoin production per day."

- http://newlibertystandard.wikifoundry.com/page/2009+Exchange+Rate

"During 2009 my exchange rate was calculated by dividing $1.00 by the average amount of electricity required to run a computer with high CPU for a year, 1331.5 kWh, multiplied by the the average residential cost of electricity in the United States for the previous year, $0.1136, divided by 12 months divided by the number of bitcoins generated by my computer over the past 30 days."

...

Bitcoin Maximalism

Bitcoin maximalists, who's favorite hangout would currently appear to be the self described crypto twitter, mostly seem to affirm that nothing can ever be an improvement to Bitcoin.

This is IMHO a malignment not only to Bitcoin itself, but also to the entire cryptocurrecy space in general.

Primarily it stifles innovation, creates a false single viewpoint narrative and to be frank some of these folks are starting to sound like a broken record for "Number go up", idiocracy. Free markets are free, numbers go up and down.

Plenty of ideas, testing (and code) from other altcoins and blockchains have contributed changes incorporated into the existing Bitcoin (BTC) project, and vice versa of course.

Some altcoins and other cryptocurrencies do have some unique advantages over Bitcoin currently, namely;

- Better privacy / anonymity features.
- Faster transaction / confirmation times.
- Useful PoW schemes
- Smart contracts etc.,

Whilst Bitcoin (BTC) will always remain the first true cryptocurrency / market mover ...

Remember: Bitcoin is an Open Source project, so do try to keep an Open Mind to other projects and innovations within this space.

Cheers!  

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[BitcoinFX]

Herewith, a (to be expanded upon) collection of tweets from the crypto twittersphere, to provide examples of Bitcoin 'toxic' Maximalism ...

N.B. Probably *NSFW*

I will start with a tweet from Jimmy Song ... who's tweet inspired this thread.  

...

"Ever notice how altcoiners want to work "together" when their coin is under attack, but take every opportunity to attack #Bitcoin?

There is no "cryptocurrency industry." There is #Bitcoin and there are pretenders. That's it."
- https://twitter.com/jimmysong/status/1295918210085203976

...

"Bitcoin dominance is 100%"
- https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1295106878171643905

...

"Taco Plebs are some of the most legit Bitcoin maxi's out there! People get upset when we poke holes in their shitcoin dreams. Reality is we are just trying to. help their future!"
- https://twitter.com/piratebeachbum/status/1294989690043588609

...

"Getting a lot of shitcoin flavored accounts following me the last days.
Good time to make it clear that only #Bitcoin matters.

Shitcoins are scams and will get you rekt

Thank me later."
- https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1294941543841894401

...

"Shitcoins will always be limited to pump & dump hopium. Narratives around #Bitcoin are not even comparable: ..."
- https://twitter.com/bitcoinkatia/status/1294594050180493313

...

"Think shitcoiners have this much collective conviction?

Doubtful.

(I’ll do the larger collage when I get to a computer tomorrow.)"
- https://twitter.com/hodl_american/status/1295939309082533888

...

"Hi

My name is american hodl and I’m addicted to number go up."
- https://twitter.com/hodl_american

...

"Fuck it, converting all my non-working capital to #bitcoin.

Let's fucking go!"
- https://twitter.com/PeterMcCormack/status/1296046342570160128

...

Please feel free to post your own favorite examples (and sources) of Bitcoin 'toxic' Maximalism in the thread below to be added to this post.

Regards,

[mk4]

Bitcoin maximalists, who's favorite hangout would currently appear to be the self described crypto twitter, mostly seem to affirm that nothing can ever be an improvement to Bitcoin.

To be fair, the "bitcoin maximalist" title, mostly being used as a derogatory term by some of the hardcore Ethereum people, is being used on people really really broadly. Heck, I was called a "BiTcOiN mAxiMaLiSt" by a decently followed Ethereum shill just because I stated somewhere that I only held bitcoin, even though I openly stated that I'm really open to other altcoin experiments.

[BitcoinFX]

Bitcoin maximalists, who's favorite hangout would currently appear to be the self described crypto twitter, mostly seem to affirm that nothing can ever be an improvement to Bitcoin.

To be fair, the "bitcoin maximalist" title, mostly being used as a derogatory term by some of the hardcore Ethereum people, is being used on people really really broadly. Heck, I was called a "BiTcOiN mAxiMaLiSt" by a decently followed Ethereum shill just because I stated somewhere that I only held bitcoin, even though I openly stated that I'm really open to other altcoin experiments.

Bitcoin 'Maximalist' HODLer, confirmed!  

*Just joking*  

[mk4]

Bitcoin 'Maximalist' HODLer, confirmed!  

*Just joking*  

After more than a year of being called that, I honestly still don't know if I should take it as a compliment or an insult. Mostly just me scratching my head in confusion.

[davis196]

I have always been open to altcoins,but unfortunately 90% of them turned out to be  "pump and dump" shitcoins.
There's nothing wrong with the competition between Bitcoin and various altcoin projects.Competition is always good for the market.It forces developers to constantly improve the code,in order to stay ahead.
I can't call myself a "Bitcoin maximalist",even though I wish there's was a way to just remove all the shitcoins (and altcoins like Ripple and all the Bitcoin forks)from the crypto sphere.
Since when sharing your opinions can "do harm" to a community?This is a communist way of thinking.
"How dare you have an opinion that's different than mine!"
Bitcoin maximalists have their opinions and they are free to share them whenever and wherever they want.
 

[jpnl0006]

The chalenge with bitcoin maximalist is that they do not see beyond bitcoin, they believe every other coin is worthless or a shitcoin. The truth of the matter is that bitcoin has almost the transaction per second rating in the etire blockchain framework and that is a major challenge but beyond this bitcoin is most secure. Maximalists don't actually believe it is true and they end up focusing on other features and it does not please those who see beyond analysis.

[Carlton Banks]

I agree.

When people started using the word "a*tcoin" in 2010-11, it was just a quick way to refer to other cryptocurrencies as a group

When people started using that word perjoratively, I stopped using it


Bitcoin doesn't need playground bullying to be better than the other cryptocurrencies, either it is or it isn't. People using this kind of language are displaying tribal instincts that may in fact hide their lack of confidence in Bitcoin

[Bitcoin_bullish]

I don't like the word maximalist as it has a negative meaning of being short-sighted. It is not that someone just wants to pump their Bitcoin bags, but mostly that after careful research and consideration the result is that altcoins are nonsense. Somehow this is what happens with altcoin shills instead that infest the social media with each hyped coin they find. One time it was XRP that was going to end Bitcoin, next time Verge that was shilled to the roof, now it is Chainlink.

I'm sorry but I don't see any future for any of the current top altcoins. I haven't found a decent usecase for any altcoin so far besides trading them to add to my Bitcoin balance.

Ethereum went Ponzi style with DeFi and the rest are not even worth mentioning. Some random Chinese nonsense as vechain that are controlled by the Chinese government are hyped as serious projects. Seriously?

Altcoins are all shitcoins and DeFi won't bring any solution to real world problems.

[avikz]

Some altcoins and other cryptocurrencies do have some unique advantages over Bitcoin currently, namely;

- Better privacy / anonymity features.
- Faster transaction / confirmation times.
- Useful PoW schemes
- Smart contracts etc.,

Completely agree to this point! I believe ETH or even Ripple is much better and faster if I want to transact in cryptocurrency on a regular basis. Transactions are cheaper as well compared to bitcoin!

Whilst Bitcoin (BTC) will always remain the first true cryptocurrency / market mover ...

That's true as well! Bitcoin is indeed a market mover and being the first cryptocurrency, it enjoys maximum attention from the non-crypto population. I have seen a lot of people never heard of the word "cryptocurrency" but at least heard the name "bitcoin"!

Maximalism is somewhat harmful in any context because maximalism stops the ideas of improvement flowing into the system.

But we also should not forget that maximalists are the most rooted supporters of a system! Without their constant support, bitcoin wouldn't have reached to this stage where we are standing today! So I would not necessarily say that Maximalists are doing more harm than doing good! As a community, it's always good to have a balanced mix of maximalists and progressive minds to grow and innovative!

[hatshepsut93]

Crypto space is full of "developers" who just make millions off their pet shitcoin with no intention to actually improving anything. So, it's a no-brainer to be a Bitcoin maximalist, when the whole field is so bad.

- Better privacy / anonymity features.
- Faster transaction / confirmation times.
- Useful PoW schemes
- Smart contracts etc.,

Privacy is one of a few things that are indeed improved by alts. Still, many privacycoins have problems of their own.

Faster confirmations? There's no such things, 1 Bitcoin confirmation is not the same as 1 shitcoin confirmation. 1 Bitcoin confirmation is already extremely unlikely to be reversed. Meanwhile alts get successfully 51% attacked on a regular basis.

Useful PoW? If it's useful, it's centralized, and you can't have a reliable financial peer-to-peer system that has trusted third parties in its protocol.

Smart contracts - still not used in real world.

[BrewMaster]

for starters the term "Bitcoin maximalists" is both created and used by altcoin pumpers who have been trying to scam people into buying their premined coin so that they could make money by selling the created out of thin air coins to them and make millions.

mostly seem to affirm that nothing can ever be an improvement to Bitcoin.

you might have misunderstood what most people say.
there is a difference between saying there can never be anything better than bitcoin or saying there hasn't been anything better than bitcoin. the former is just stupid and the later is a reality.

Primarily it stifles innovation,

i strongly disagree.
innovation dies when developers start wanting to make the most amount of money instead of wanting to improve on what bitcoin innovation introduced.
that is why there has been so many tokens (ie. the easiest way to make money by doing nothing).

Some altcoins and other cryptocurrencies do have some unique advantages over Bitcoin currently, namely;

- Better privacy / anonymity features.
- Faster transaction / confirmation times.
- Useful PoW schemes
- Smart contracts etc.,

advantages should be measured as a whole not individually. for example there are altcoins that have "bigger" blocks than bitcoin and individually this seems like an advantage but it is not an advantage as a whole, instead it is a severe flaw.
or the most popular better privacy coins (that are actually privacy coins not just pretending) have serious scaling issues that are caused by that privacy feature.

[BitcoinFX]

...snip...

Faster confirmations? There's no such things, 1 Bitcoin confirmation is not the same as 1 shitcoin confirmation. 1 Bitcoin confirmation is already extremely unlikely to be reversed. Meanwhile alts get successfully 51% attacked on a regular basis.

Useful PoW? If it's useful, it's centralized, and you can't have a reliable financial peer-to-peer system that has trusted third parties in its protocol.

Smart contracts - still not used in real world.

Indeed I would agree that privacy is one of the main advantages with various altcoins currently over BTC.

...

An interesting perspective on confirmation times. If I'm being completely honest I would say that Bitcoins target block time of 10 mins is slightly to slow in regards to some aspects of being a modern digital cash.

Satoshi had to play it safe in this regard and of course changing this variable is now not possible as it would alter the entire distribution of coins over time, thus changing the economic model.

Arguably, it is actually the block time that leads to increased transaction backlogs and/or higher network fees.

A better block time is most certainly around the 2.5 min mark IMHO. Hash rate and chain security considered.

EDIT: Additional: Hal Finney knew it ... December 30, 2010 ...

...snip... Bitcoin itself cannot scale to have every single financial transaction in the world be broadcast to everyone and included in the block chain. There needs to be a secondary level of payment systems which is lighter weight and more efficient. Likewise, the time needed for Bitcoin transactions to finalize will be impractical for medium to large value purchases.

...snip...

Imagine all those BSV folks thinking that unlimited data storage in addition to transactions is going to work out well long-term.  

Imagine trying to store the entire internet in every Bitcoin block. Anyone involved with BSV is an absolute complete and utter total plank.

...

In terms of Useful PoW, at least three Prime number based altcoins exist (based on bitcoins proof-of-work with some additional functions), which actually store the results on chain and have broken various mathematical records. Whilst this sounds impossible, its perfectly true. See my signature.

...

I have also never been a fan of Smart Contracts either (or tokenization), however, perhaps some genuine use cases are now coming to fruition !?

Still, tokens are most certainly not coins.

[20kevin20]

I'm not sure if I should agree that being a maximalist as per the official definition of the term is that bad unless the said BTC maximalist strongly opposes necessary upgrades. Now let's wonder: is higher speed really needed in the Bitcoin network? Would a higher speed truly make BTC better in any way besides looking better on a "BTC vs <insert alt here>" comparison?

Regarding privacy, I honestly think BTC would have not been here anymore if everything went through Tor or was just obfuscated the way Monero does it. We have already seen enough resistance against BTC from authorities - imagine what would've happened if Monero was to be the first crypto out there.

I honestly thought that being a BTC maximalist means just that you would never give up BTC for anything or admit there are better coins out there than it. Anyway, as long as speed, fees etc do not bother us, I think we don't need tweaks. You could go back to the "what happens if a satoshi becomes a dollar" debate - why bother changing the denomination now if it's not a problem yet, right?

[DooMAD]

I guess people can take it too far, sometimes.  But I suspect such comments are merely made in reaction to having spent years listening to those who push far too hard to promote the "next big thing" which invariably turns out to be a whole load of nothing in practice.  Sure, the "maximalists" could probably phrase it more politely, but everything they've experienced in their time looking at this stuff tells them that the vast majority of coins are going to fail pretty spectacularly.  I'd say in many cases it's quite natural (perhaps even healthy) to become skeptical and dismissive of other coins.  There comes a stage where you just can't bring yourself to continue to give all of them the benefit of the doubt just for the sake of being polite.

It's almost as though people use the phrase "first mover advantage" like it's the only reason Bitcoin achieved dominance.  But the simple fact is, network effects are a huge factor.  If Bitcoin had been poorly designed, simply being the first of its kind would not have been sufficient to sustain it.  An objectively better coin would have come along.  It's clear, however, that Bitcoin is very well designed.  It has tangible benefits and people can see the advantage of using Bitcoin over what other networks can offer.  

And it really is a question of what's on offer.

For example, some coins have filled a niche that Bitcoin simply doesn't cater to, so these types of networks can be successful in their own right.  These are mainly legitimate altcoins.  They have a real purpose and people find them useful.  They have something to offer.
 
Some chains serve as a useful testbed for experimental features.  It's not always a good idea to speculate on such coins, though, because features alone are not necessarily enough for the coin itself to be useful and actually serve a purpose in the real world.  On rare occasion, these coins can be legitimate, but there are also plenty of occasions where they can turn out to be shameless speculative devices by hyping up a feature beyond its true potential.  Beware the buzzwords and gimmickry brigades.

But, for the most part, since many coins are effectively copycat clones that can only manage minor tweaks to the basic formula, or perhaps add some novelty bells and whistles that aren't really worth the compromises they often entail, they have little to offer.  As such, they can't compete.  Network effects will clearly never sway in their favour because people will never use them.  If people won't use them, these coins become useless.  So why waste time on them?  It's survival of the fittest.  Sugar-coating it isn't going to make it any easier.

The example tweets listed in the second post are definitely crude, blunt and generally disrespectful.  But, blatant trolling aside, some of them aren't necessarily wrong.  If they hadn't been phrased in such a clearly provocative fashion, I doubt anyone would take exception to it.  As for whether they're harming the space?  Difficult to say.  Clearly some people will take affront, but then, people being offended by things on the internet just seems to be a part of everyday life now.  I'm not worried, personally.  Hopefully people just see it as the modern equivalent of "banter" and don't take it too seriously.  

[pixie85]

Bitcoin 'Maximalist' HODLer, confirmed!  

*Just joking*  

After more than a year of being called that, I honestly still don't know if I should take it as a compliment or an insult. Mostly just me scratching my head in confusion.

It's an insult because people who act like maximalists rarely call themselves that. It's other people that do it like it's something bad.

I'm probably a maximalist because I see Bitcoin as something superior to existing altcoins. Maybe one day Bitcoin will have to be upgraded and we'll move to a newer version but for now there's barely anything comparable. Look at top altcoins. XRP? BCH, BSV?

[BitcoinFX]

Bitcoin 'Maximalist' HODLer, confirmed!  

*Just joking*  

After more than a year of being called that, I honestly still don't know if I should take it as a compliment or an insult. Mostly just me scratching my head in confusion.

It's an insult because people who act like maximalists rarely call themselves that. It's other people that do it like it's something bad.

I'm probably a maximalist because I see Bitcoin as something superior to existing altcoins. Maybe one day Bitcoin will have to be upgraded and we'll move to a newer version but for now there's barely anything comparable. Look at top altcoins. XRP? BCH, BSV?

TBH most of the Bitcoin maximalists I've encountered do refer to themselves as Bitcoin Maximalists or Maxis.

Others go as far as defining themselves as Bitcoin 'Toxic' Maximalists!  

...

BCH is not Bitcoin.

BSV is not Bitcoin. It's even a fork of BCH. It's in the license agreement ...

- https://github.com/bitcoin-sv/bitcoin-sv/blob/master/LICENSE

"The Bitcoin SV blockchains are defined,
for purposes of this license, as the Bitcoin blockchain containing block height #556767
with the hash "000000000000000001d956714215d96ffc00e0afda4cd0a96c96f8d802b1662b" ..."

It's a total nullity based on a sham.



XRP ... no comment ... ROTFLSHMSFOAIDMT

[gentlemand]

The more time passes the more convincing Bitcoin appears compared to everything else to me at least. It's like a fully grown adult striding through a field of squealing babies. Maximalism feels like a logical outcome after some careful consideration.

But I see nowt wrong with experimenting with other stuff and they are often exploring avenues Bitcoin itself will never touch. However it's disingenuous to scream 'oppression' when someone casts doubt on your latest 'partnership'. As ever actions speak louder than words and the actions of most shitcoins condemn themselves effortlessly.

A lot of maximalists are boring, derisory and irritating and so is the opposition. Neither camp is going to shut up so you may as well leave them to it and cast your own vote.

[kemoglo]

Bitcoin 'Maximalist' HODLer, confirmed!  

*Just joking*  

After more than a year of being called that, I honestly still don't know if I should take it as a compliment or an insult. Mostly just me scratching my head in confusion.

Don't pay attention to the way people call you, I'm a holder, does that make me a maximalist? Idk, idc, I'm just doing my thing

[Wexnident]

Isn't the term Bitcoin maximalist, or maximalist used for those that are just heavy headed people that don't really contribute anything but still preach whatever they're rooting for? Not that I'm saying that some maximalists out there are bad, there may be some out there that don't really fit in there but call themselves on though. I'd rather stay in the middle camp tbh, since I know of Bitcoin, and I also know what's good and what's bad with it. Acknowledging them (disadvantages) seems the best way to adopt it after all. Not that I've ever used much coins, I've only used BTC, ETH and Doge after all.

Still, I suppose that maximalist just want Bitcoin to be the only one to exist since they're on that camp. It's like me vs the world, with no compromise needed or available for that matter. Let them exist on their own space though tbh, there's still space for most people to use and acknowledge other useful coins out here.

[pooya87]

there are only altcoin maximalists and what they have been doing has been harming the crypto space a lot. have you ever wondered why the term "bitcoin maximalist" is a newly appeared term and is also started by altcoin creators?

when was the last time we saw an actually good project be on top of the lists named "top altcoins" instead of some garbage pump and dump coin with a huge premine be there? you can't blame that on bitcoin or bitcoin users. it is because of what "atlcion maximalists" do. they kill every other altcoin that has any innovation but lacks a pumping group because a legit developer doesn't care about these things so his altcoin gets pushed to the bottom of the list and is buried under a lot of shitcoins.

there is also "better than bitcoin", "next big thing", "flippening",... which are all coming from altcoin maximalists all with the purpose to pump their shitcoin which in turn kills the possible good project that will go unnoticed due to the sheer amount of shit that is poured on top of them.

[coolbaughandrew]

Totally agree. Bitcoin maximalists aren't different from gold maximalists. Both of them dwell on the past.

[figmentofmyass]

A lot of maximalists are boring, derisory and irritating and so is the opposition. Neither camp is going to shut up so you may as well leave them to it and cast your own vote.

+1. it's all noise. the only thing that matters in the end is what the market decides. my money is on bitcoin continuing to dominate the market for the foreseeable future, but i also think the maximalist hope that altcoins will die off is a pipe dream. altcoins aren't going anywhere, and they are gonna seriously piss off bitcoin maximalists during the next bull market.

[wiss19]

Not everyone that’s holding Bitcoin that is a maximalists. Like in the past few years I only invested in Bitcoin, but that doesn’t mean I was only interested in bitcoin,. I saw other cryptocurrencies (altcoins) and I was also interested in them, but I just didn’t want to rush things until I made my choice and as time goes on I also started investing in altcoins, like Ethereum.

So, let’s not be in a hurry to call people maximalists because they are holding Bitcoin, unless they made it clear that they are dying on it lol. Some people first need to understand a project before investing. There are so many altcoins in the market, and majority are a waste of time, so it’s good to choose carefully.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Seems you haven't researched properly then. Altcoins are doing more harm to the ecosystem them bitcoin is. The rate at which worthless shitcoins are getting pumping thereby soiling the reputation of the industry when they get dumped on newcomers making it look like, this is just a pump and dump industry. The altcoin maximalists are to be blamed for what the industry is turning into, all the bitcoin maximalists are affect is preventing the new comers from falling victims.

I always wished my portfolio was filled with just bitcoin from day one, I would have prevented most losses I have recorded still date. Now I'm so attached to alts that I find it difficult not holding any even when I know they can't be relied on.

[figmentofmyass]

Seems you haven't researched properly then. Altcoins are doing more harm to the ecosystem them bitcoin is. The rate at which worthless shitcoins are getting pumping thereby soiling the reputation of the industry when they get dumped on newcomers making it look like, this is just a pump and dump industry.

you do realize that bitcoin was widely hailed as a pump and dump in 2011 and 2013, right? and that the 2017 bubble on the charts is more of the same? people still call it tulip mania.

years ago, before defi, before IEOs, before ICOs, bitcoin security investments (havelock, asicminers, etc) were all the rage. hell, before that so were bitcoin doublers and ridiculous things like that. and still here we are, with bitcoin getting mainstream recognition from hedge fund managers and publicly traded companies holding their cash reserves in BTC, trading above $10k...... i see no damage done!

like it or not, many bitcoin investors are straight up gamblers looking to get rich quick, and they are gonna keep pouring their coins into high risk investments. that includes both legitimate and illegitimate projects, and everything in between. *shrug*

i love bitcoin, but it certainly shouldn't have a monopoly on innovation in the crypto space. when an investor gets burned (in altcoins or penny stocks or anything else) they learn a lesson and are wiser for it. the smart ones will learn that bitcoin is a much safer investment, and life goes on.

[Artemis3]

Nonsense. Bitcoin is the only coin, and Satoshi they maker.

There is no such thing as "crypto space", there is Bitcoin, and there are altcoins. Bitcoin works, altcoins, no so much.

Maximalism? Sounds like someone just want to talk about altcoins, and there is a forum area for altcoins.

There is no problem to talk about Bitcoin which is the whole point of this place. You should be thankful you can discuss the altcoins in its respective area.

What harm are you even talking about? The altcoins have benefited from the open source nature of Bitcoin. Everyone is free to believe or not in them, but don't expect you can sneak them in the wrong area just because you like them.

And the people who do not believe in altcoins, should not be forced to listen about them either. That doesn't make them "Maximalists", there is just Bitcoin, and that is that.

[Heisenberg_Hunter]

I wouldn't call myself a bitcoin maximalist but I would say most of the newbies entering into crypto space should experience themselves why almost every altcoin is a no brainer shitcoin which is of no use other than trading or getting rich quick/losing everything over a nightmare? Today majority of the scams are taking place in Ethereum since it is always really easier to create a token out of thin air, create an ICO and run away with investor's money. This is what happened in 2017-2018 era and many of the newbies including myself have been scammed by thousands of dollars.

Like as you said, some of the altcoins which was created in 2017 had the potential and indeed had a real use case but they were not able to tolerate the major sell off and dumping of Ethereum in 2018. The same goes with DeFi now, do they really have any good usage and real world scenarios apart from pumping and dumping and thereby receiving profits or losses?

When a currency suffers 51% attack, the purpose of being decentralized and trustworthy is broken here and this happens with most of the altcoins prevailing out there in exchanges. I don't really want to point out the coin which I had invested back in 2018 but the coin collaborated with IBM and launched their coin through hyperledger fabric tech but sadly the developers sold out everything during the 2018 sell off and ran away with investor's money. Luckily saved a few hundred dollars from the scam and invested in a top 20 coin at $10 per coin back in 2018 and now they are trading at $0.2 (that's honestly a great return of investment).

The same goes with Ethereum and every other coin in crypto space except Bitcoin. Bitcoin is having a real use case and it is proving each and every year that it can break the previous records set by it.

[NeuroticFish]

For every bitcoin maximalist there was already a scam shitcoin or ICO. And more schemes will rise.
Blaming only the maximalists means ignoring half of the reality.
I don't say altcoins are bad, but how many are actually good?

[online73]

Someone from the Great said - "everything is harm and everything is good." What is said from the portioning of this or that. Of course, when the word "Bitcoin maximalist" is heard, associations with a certain radical point of view, which always interferes with a balanced understanding of the very phenomenon of Bitcoin. So of course, to a certain extent, the "Bitcoin Maximalist" does harm to the crypto community. But, on the other hand, I believe that the entire cryptocurrency community is based on the "Bitcoin maximalists". In general, if you want to achieve some kind of success, you have to be a maximalist, only the “wings” of a maximalist behind your back will help you to reach great heights.

[roadrunnerjaiv2025]

If the competition between bitcoin and "all altcoins put together" contributes to the expansion and promotion of a decentralized financial system, let's keep it up!

[BitcoinFX]

"Topic: When Bitcoin Maximalists are Promoting/Shilling an Altcoin"

Just the other day, a SEC-approved tokenized IPO was launched by INX, a crypto exchange. The token is built on the Ethereum network.

Everything seems pretty normal. But no, this is a whole different security token not so much for its features as the people who are promoting/shilling it and even sitting as Advisory Board Members. They are no less than Bitcoin maximalists who openly despise altcoins as shitcoins including ETH itself. And now, all of a sudden, this promotion.

A whole controversial drama has ensued.

Stefan Jespers, known on Twitter as WhalePanda with the description: "Toxic Monetary Bitcoin Maximalist"^[1] and whose Linkedin profile states that "He will not give you investment advice and he will not endorse your ICO."^[2] recently tweeted:


(https://twitter.com/WhalePanda/status/1297933116779175938)

Meanwhile, the cyberphunk, Jameson Lopp, creator of statoshi.info, bitcoin.page, lightning.how, has also tweeted:


(https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1298262107478081547)

It turned out the two, among other Bitcoin maximalists which include Samson Mow, chief officer of Blockstream, and Alena Vranova, founder of SatoshiLabs, are advisors of the project.^[3]


(https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-maximalists-accused-of-shilling-an-sec-cleared-token)

This decision made by these quite popular Bitcoin influencers and enthusiasts did not bode well to some Bitcoin fans.

Hodlonaut.hodl on Twitter did not mince words in his disappointment:


(https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1298304878293454848)

(https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1298328894559395845)

(https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1298341888488083457)

(https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1298370374665674752)

Replies were also pouring down hard on Jameson Lopp's Tweet, some of which he courteously answered:





(https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1298262107478081547)

And Cøbra, Bitcoin.org's custodian, spoke of it as a kind of hypocrisy:


(https://twitter.com/CobraBitcoin/status/1298398992401870848)

[1] https://twitter.com/WhalePanda
[2] https://be.linkedin.com/in/stefan-jespers-64437a1b
[3] https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-maximalists-accused-of-shilling-an-sec-cleared-token

...

I love not being a Bitcoin Maximalist.

It gives me the wherewithal to be proud to say that I have never invested in any shit-tokens (and/or promoted any ICO, whatsoever).

I'm free to use privacy coins and good altcoins etc.,

Tokens are not coins.

Bitcoin is not ded! Long live the King! Long live Bitcoin (BTC)!

...

Full disclosure: I was once 'gifted' a Crypto Kitty.  

P.S. Coming soon to a blockchain near you KYB (Know Your Bankster!)

...

*NSFW* *Explicit Lyrics* *Satire?*
The Prodigy - Fuel My Fire [L7 cover] (Live @ Brixton Academy, London, UK) 20.12.1997
- https://youtu.be/uU2MFXMM6kc

[bbc.reporter]

INX's suitability standards wants to make it to appear different to all other ICOs, however, it only strengthened the questionable part of the ICO. To offer the investment to a few chosen people to dump on everyone else later.

Also, if this is a registered security it might be okay to treat this like an IPO. However, be careful, there are also many worthless pump and dump stocks listed on stock exchanges registered with the SEC that are IPO scams.

[DoubleEdgeEX]

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.” Face it: you were better off not knowing that, weren't you?

I think most maximalists are either unknowledgable about the possibilities of other tokens or they are just called such because of an argument with an altcoin enthusiast. BTC is the leader of the gang, so it´s just natural that people focus on the main point of interest. Taht´s also shown in the recent developments of big institutional investors entering crypto space, they chose the supposedly most safest asset, whcih again is BTC. It might change in the future but at this point the whole crypto market is still in its infancy so focussing on the Crypto Blue Chips is just common behaviour

[Anna138]

For every bitcoin maximalist there was already a scam shitcoin or ICO. And more schemes will rise.
Blaming only the maximalists means ignoring half of the reality.
I don't say altcoins are bad, but how many are actually good?

Depends on what you mean by "good"? A lot of altcoins coins that brought profit at the time of entering the market and then fell to zero, and there were also coins that were shitcoins and after a while did to the moon. So everything is relative and there is nothing specifically good or bad.

[600watt]

Herewith, a (to be expanded upon) collection of tweets from the crypto twittersphere, to provide examples of Bitcoin 'toxic' Maximalism ...

N.B. Probably *NSFW*

I will start with a tweet from Jimmy Song ... who's tweet inspired this thread.  

...

"Ever notice how altcoiners want to work "together" when their coin is under attack, but take every opportunity to attack #Bitcoin?

There is no "cryptocurrency industry." There is #Bitcoin and there are pretenders. That's it."
- https://twitter.com/jimmysong/status/1295918210085203976

...

"Bitcoin dominance is 100%"
- https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1295106878171643905

...

"Taco Plebs are some of the most legit Bitcoin maxi's out there! People get upset when we poke holes in their shitcoin dreams. Reality is we are just trying to. help their future!"
- https://twitter.com/piratebeachbum/status/1294989690043588609

...

"Getting a lot of shitcoin flavored accounts following me the last days.
Good time to make it clear that only #Bitcoin matters.

Shitcoins are scams and will get you rekt

Thank me later."
- https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1294941543841894401

...

"Shitcoins will always be limited to pump & dump hopium. Narratives around #Bitcoin are not even comparable: ..."
- https://twitter.com/bitcoinkatia/status/1294594050180493313

...

"Think shitcoiners have this much collective conviction?

Doubtful.

(I’ll do the larger collage when I get to a computer tomorrow.)"
- https://twitter.com/hodl_american/status/1295939309082533888

...

"Hi

My name is american hodl and I’m addicted to number go up."
- https://twitter.com/hodl_american

...

"Fuck it, converting all my non-working capital to #bitcoin.

Let's fucking go!"
- https://twitter.com/PeterMcCormack/status/1296046342570160128

...

Please feel free to post your own favorite examples (and sources) of Bitcoin 'toxic' Maximalism in the thread below to be added to this post.

Regards,

very nice collection of lots of important tweets. I enjoyed them. can't find any toxicity in those.
If bitcoinMaxis weren't around, bitcoin would now be bitcoincash or bitcoin2x or whatever. the fact that the bitcoins you hold have value and were not compromised by clowns has to do with this as well.

[kerjakuat]

Maximalists are can be described as a hypocrite that pretend to care about cryptocurrency but in fact they just care at what they invest. They say whatever they say and i dont think they are an expert of the tech at all. I never care to read their tweet as most of them are just rubbish to me.

[fiulpro]

Bitcoin maximalists are doing more harm to the crypto space than good ?

Discuss ...

"maximalist
noun
a person who favors a radical and immediate approach to the achievement of a set of goals or the completion of a program."

- https://www.dictionary.com/browse/maximalist

...

Bitcoin is not a "game" that can be completed. It is a protocol and eco-system of digital cash and a store-of-value (i.e. digital gold).

Bitcoin (BTC) is the first digital commodity money of the internet.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money

Bitcoin's monetary (intrinsic) value is primarily derived from electricity, cryptography (math) and time. Markets (and arguably $ price) are secondary.

The very first Bitcoin exchange rates were established as such (before this, Bitcoin remained entirely valueless) ...

- http://newlibertystandard.wikifoundry.com/page/Exchange+Rate

"The exchange rate is the average of the adjusted bitcoin production per day divided by the average production costs per day. The per day averages start with the previous day and will eventually extend back 365 days, but until then, they increase by half a day each day by taking the average of two averages. Production costs consist of the price of broadband Internet and metered electricity. The adjusted bitcoin production is the following spreadsheet calculation =if(M2>N2,((B2+F2)/2)*(1/(3-((N2/M2)*2))),((B2+F2)/2)*(3-((M2/N2)*2))) where M2 is the available balance of dollars times the exchange rate of that same day, N2 is the available balance of bitcoins, B2 is the amount of bitcoins produced the previous day and F2 is the average of the adjusted bitcoin production per day."

- http://newlibertystandard.wikifoundry.com/page/2009+Exchange+Rate

"During 2009 my exchange rate was calculated by dividing $1.00 by the average amount of electricity required to run a computer with high CPU for a year, 1331.5 kWh, multiplied by the the average residential cost of electricity in the United States for the previous year, $0.1136, divided by 12 months divided by the number of bitcoins generated by my computer over the past 30 days."

...

Bitcoin Maximalism

Bitcoin maximalists, who's favorite hangout would currently appear to be the self described crypto twitter, mostly seem to affirm that nothing can ever be an improvement to Bitcoin.

This is IMHO a malignment not only to Bitcoin itself, but also to the entire cryptocurrecy space in general.

Primarily it stifles innovation, creates a false single viewpoint narrative and to be frank some of these folks are starting to sound like a broken record for "Number go up", idiocracy. Free markets are free, numbers go up and down.

Plenty of ideas, testing (and code) from other altcoins and blockchains have contributed changes incorporated into the existing Bitcoin (BTC) project, and vice versa of course.

Some altcoins and other cryptocurrencies do have some unique advantages over Bitcoin currently, namely;

- Better privacy / anonymity features.
- Faster transaction / confirmation times.
- Useful PoW schemes
- Smart contracts etc.,

Whilst Bitcoin (BTC) will always remain the first true cryptocurrency / market mover ...

Remember: Bitcoin is an Open Source project, so do try to keep an Open Mind to other projects and innovations within this space.

Cheers!  

The thing is they are specifically investing in : Bitcoins and therefore they prefer bitcoins over any other cryptocurrencies which inturn creates a bad example on behalf of them but at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You can support Bitcoins but that does not give you any right to actually say bad stuff about other cryptocurrencies since most of them are integrated with each other , thus creating an ecosystem that supports bitcoins and their own coins too .

I remember the time I did a post about ERC20 tokens integrating them with Bitcoins being favoured by marketers all over the world , I did get a lot of negative comments . Having an open mind can go multiple ways, if you support Bitcoin's it does not mean you have to say negative stuff about someone's hard work , it takes a lot of time, investment, hard work, initiative to actually bring your token out in the market , we need to respect that.

[bitmover]

Bitcoin maximalists are doing more harm to the crypto space than good ?
-snip-

Remember: Bitcoin is an Open Source project, so do try to keep an Open Mind to other projects and innovations within this space.

For every bitcoin maximalist there was already a scam shitcoin or ICO. And more schemes will rise.
Blaming only the maximalists means ignoring half of the reality.

I believe those are the most important terms here:
OpenMind and Scams.

I am not a bitcoin maximalist. I have, in my portfolio, about 80% bitcoin. There was times with 50% and others with 90% (due to high volatility).

However, when ANYONE asks me for investment advice regarding cryptocurrency, I try to be a bitcoin maximalist (and a lot of people ask me, because bitcoin/crypto is still highly unkown and not well understood even by most " tech guys" )

I don't truly believe in ANY of those project as much as I believe in bitcoin. If I had to scale in confidence/security, I would give bitcoin an 8-9 and the best altcoins (imo) at most a 5 (I don't want to say which ones I believe now, but they are very few).

Some other day I saw a person which a respect a lot, an old guy who loves gold and traditional markets and has an youtube channel . He was chilling EOS and saying that is his biggest cryptocurrency holding.

I don't know if he was scammed or if he is being paid to promto that shitcoin, just like jameson loop did.


Usually, most of those altcoin projects are heavily hyped, very dangerous (they can go 1000% up and 99,5% down within a few weeks).

There are some good projects? Well, there are. And they certainly should be incentived. But there are far too many scams.

[wack slacker]

It is best to let it all go natural, bitcoin proponents often do not have any knowledge of how to view the source code of a cryptocurrency. They just get bitcoin to market people outrageously and blindly. Over the years people are still suffering from FOMO for believing in unsubstantiated statements and invitations. There are a lot of people who have lost money because of crypto and so they hate crypto in some way.

[bbc.reporter]

Maximalists are can be described as a hypocrite that pretend to care about cryptocurrency but in fact they just care at what they invest. They say whatever they say and i dont think they are an expert of the tech at all. I never care to read their tweet as most of them are just rubbish to me.

Agreed! This maximalist has declared that every cryptocoin that is not bitcoin is scam and he has made it appear that holding any cryptocoin that is not bitcoin a sin.



However, he is part of a project that issued a token in Ethereum. Did he admit defeat hehehe? It appears that this is an type of welcome that ERC20 is the standard for token issuance in the cryptospace.

[Debonaire217]

It is best to let it all go natural, bitcoin proponents often do not have any knowledge of how to view the source code of a cryptocurrency. They just get bitcoin to market people outrageously and blindly. Over the years people are still suffering from FOMO for believing in unsubstantiated statements and invitations. There are a lot of people who have lost money because of crypto and so they hate crypto in some way.

Perhaps, this people just want to build hype for their investment to grow, not really supporting crypto itself but their personal interest in cryptocurrency. For example, if they just posted on twitter about a hype that was about to happen when in fact, developers clearly know what the upgrade is about then these "maximalist" are creating more stories that they can, just to attract investors that aren't ready. The problem is when normal people just got baited, not knowing allot about crypto then they lost their investment, as an effect, they will have negative impression to cryptocurrencies.

[XEsseKasper]

Bitcoin maximalists are doing more harm to the crypto space than good ?
-snip-

Remember: Bitcoin is an Open Source project, so do try to keep an Open Mind to other projects and innovations within this space.

For every bitcoin maximalist there was already a scam shitcoin or ICO. And more schemes will rise.
Blaming only the maximalists means ignoring half of the reality.

I believe those are the most important terms here:
OpenMind and Scams.

I am not a bitcoin maximalist. I have, in my portfolio, about 80% bitcoin. There was times with 50% and others with 90% (due to high volatility).

However, when ANYONE asks me for investment advice regarding cryptocurrency, I try to be a bitcoin maximalist (and a lot of people ask me, because bitcoin/crypto is still highly unkown and not well understood even by most " tech guys" )

I don't truly believe in ANY of those project as much as I believe in bitcoin. If I had to scale in confidence/security, I would give bitcoin an 8-9 and the best altcoins (imo) at most a 5 (I don't want to say which ones I believe now, but they are very few).

Some other day I saw a person which a respect a lot, an old guy who loves gold and traditional markets and has an youtube channel . He was chilling EOS and saying that is his biggest cryptocurrency holding.

I don't know if he was scammed or if he is being paid to promto that shitcoin, just like jameson loop did.


Usually, most of those altcoin projects are heavily hyped, very dangerous (they can go 1000% up and 99,5% down within a few weeks).

There are some good projects? Well, there are. And they certainly should be incentived. But there are far too many scams.

I agree with Bitmover. Nobody understand this market well as it is still new and there are more unknowns than known facts. In my opinion, BTC is oldest crypto with highest market capitalization and liquidity. This is why my choice is to invest only in BTC.