Merits offered as a prize

[suchmoon]

...

this is a very good argument👍

Do you work for Sportsbet? Do you get paid for those merits?

nope, in no way have any relationship with sportsbet.io or any other betting provider
i do all this just for fun and enjoyment in this forum, as a kind of "good reward" for "good football knowledge"

Then it seems that at least the "selling merits" accusation in Quicksy's post is completely false.

Personally I don't see a problem awarding merits for participating in a skill-based gamble (as opposed to e.g. merely rolling a dice) but as you can see there's plenty of folks willing to burn you at the stake for this so you might want to remove that merit offer and just reward the merits as you see fit.

[cygan]

because i have no desire for red flaggs from some users, i have now decided to remove the merit reward for this competition
stay healthy

[Halab]

Good!! So,
1. Can you trade merit?
2. Can you give merit to your alt account?

1. I could, but I never would do it (unless I was a complete idiot).
2. Surprisingly, I don't have an alt account.

giving merit like this should be stopped immediately.

Shall we talk about the merits sent in the WO ?

[Upgrade00]

During my time on the forum I have seen merits awarded in a variety of ways, some which were completely rational and others which were quite bizzare to me, this ranges from give aways to newbies, merit for gifs and some other sort of give away for unsavoury comments on CSW. I had my personal opinion on them, but they were not my merits and I couldn't dictate how they could be given. I would only consider an intervention when it was unethical, like merit sales or using it to incentivise posting in an ANN thread, sort of like paid bumps. In these cases the trust system which is equally unregulated by the forum could be used to check it.

Except in cases of extreme abuse, I would rather not scrutinize merit giving as everyone has diverse opinions on what they think is deserving of it.

[notblox1]

I don't see anything wrong in this kind of merit competition rewards.
Many people are sending merits for good posts, and correct prediction of anything can be considered as good.
Also, there is nothing against the rules here, correct me if I am wrong.
This is just my personal opinion.

[JollyGood]

Still no official clarification about this.

Is the distributing of merits in this manner a violation or not?

[nutildah]

Merits are given away for much stupider reasons on a daily basis.

You shouldn't care. It's not hurting anybody.

People who are participating in such a contest and others like it are likely to be overall contributors to the forum as they actively care enough about the forum to get merits.

1. Can you trade merit?

This is where I draw the line. Sales or trade of merit should be discouraged. For the most part, Theymos has encouraged a "hands off" approach as far regulating / issuing negative trust for any sort of merit giving was involved. So if a negative trust is to be issued for merit sales/trading, there needs to be pretty substantial evidence behind it.

Nobody should just be handing out negative trust for giving away merits in contests. Even the most superfluous case of merit giving ever for a contest (by a merit source no less) was never given negative trust over the issue. They did lose their merit source status, however.

[iamsheikhadil]

Lol, that's funny. That's opposing what merits was supposed to be. A shout out can be given as a prize. Or even some bitcoins. Or any physical gifts as well. But merits? Merits should be earnt, not getting as gift. In this way, merits would just lose its purpose and will become some sort of currency within the bitcointalk community to exchange services and products lmao.

[adaseb]

During my time on the forum I have seen merits awarded in a variety of ways, some which were completely rational and others which were quite bizzare to me, this ranges from give aways to newbies, merit for gifs and some other sort of give away for unsavoury comments on CSW. I had my personal opinion on them, but they were not my merits and I couldn't dictate how they could be given. I would only consider an intervention when it was unethical, like merit sales or using it to incentivise posting in an ANN thread, sort of like paid bumps. In these cases the trust system which is equally unregulated by the forum could be used to check it.

Except in cases of extreme abuse, I would rather not scrutinize merit giving as everyone has diverse opinions on what they think is deserving of it.

I've seen this also however most of the merits that I give or that I've gotten is when you took the time to help some poster out. Usually in the mining section people got problems with their rigs, or setting up their rigs or how to buy the right parts. If there is some poster who takes his time to write a detailed post usually he is rewarded with merits.

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

[Upgrade00]

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

It all depends on the context and the point of view of the one who is awarding them. A sentence can be short, but helpful to those reading it.
A reply could also give a good laugh to a couple of members and rather than dropping an off topic reply like 'LOL' or '+1', which will likely get deleted, they use a merit to recognize the post, which was not technically helpful to most other readers.
Users also merit posts they do not agree with.

A bulk of merit transactions is based off quality that is visible to most, so a little personal indulgence once in a while is not really a problem.

[suchmoon]

I've seen this also however most of the merits that I give or that I've gotten is when you took the time to help some poster out. Usually in the mining section people got problems with their rigs, or setting up their rigs or how to buy the right parts. If there is some poster who takes his time to write a detailed post usually he is rewarded with merits.

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

This seemingly "random" thing is what's great about merit system. It's not based on one person's opinion of what constitutes a good post. Sure some merits may be given for stuff that is not very appealing to most people but that's perfectly fine. If that's all someone posts and gets merits for - they won't get many, reflecting their overall contribution to the forum. If someone gets 20 merits for a soccer contest but is otherwise a vile shitposter - they won't get far in ranking up etc.

Merits are given away for much stupider reasons on a daily basis.

You shouldn't care. It's not hurting anybody.

This thread made me worried that I got drunk and stumbled into the time machine again. We're still trying to micromanage merits like it's 2018.

[JollyGood]

I have to say you are making the obvious point. If merits are given away as prizes they lose their significance and importance, it simply defeats the object of what merits are intended for.

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

Lol, that's funny. That's opposing what merits was supposed to be. A shout out can be given as a prize. Or even some bitcoins. Or any physical gifts as well. But merits? Merits should be earnt, not getting as gift. In this way, merits would just lose its purpose and will become some sort of currency within the bitcointalk community to exchange services and products lmao.

[The Cryptovator]

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

No, there are no specific rules. Seems moderators have mixed opinions about this case. So, only admin knows that. I am assuming admin has read that thread and since he had not left any opinion, we can't call it as abuse. But for me, this isn't correct use of merit, I don't think its something punishable by the way. I will discourage to use merit as a prize.

[1miau]

I highly doubt that the Merit "offered as a price" in our prediction game would have ended for a prediction like

Merited by xxx

Bayern München vs. Borussia Dortmund

Most likely the high Merit award was rather intended that the user giving out the Merit would look for good posts made by the prediction winner. If there are no meritable posts, the Merit prize shouldn't be sent, I agree here. With Merit being an award for good posts, that wouldn't be abuse when the Merit will be awarded finally to quality posts.

Yes, it's controversial if such a high number of Merit should be issued to a single user and less Merit for each rank would be fairer.

In some way, that could be compared to one of the few Merit giveaways where organizers also care, that the Merit isn't sent to shitposts.

Personally I don't see a problem awarding merits for participating in a skill-based gamble (as opposed to e.g. merely rolling a dice) but as you can see there's plenty of folks willing to burn you at the stake for this so you might want to remove that merit offer and just reward the merits as you see fit.

This. I would also say, that in some situations it is not fraudulent if someone makes a Bitcoin price prediction and receives Merit for it (later, when it turned out to be a very impressive prediction) but it is also depending on the number of Merit sent for that post.

[TheUltraElite]

@JollyGood

There is not fixed/offical rule regarding the giving of merits for posts which can be applied to this case.

Since the awarding of merits is completely subjective, people are free to merit whatever they wish to. As per theymos' words, merits are to given to posts that are worthy of being recognized (rephrased statement). However you cannot be punished for giving someone merits on a post that someone feels as not merit-worthy.

Now there are certain mega-threads where such merit distribution among regular posters there happen but I dont think this is something to be concerned.

[JollyGood]

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

No, there are no specific rules. Seems moderators have mixed opinions about this case. So, only admin knows that. I am assuming admin has read that thread and since he had not left any opinion, we can't call it as abuse. But for me, this isn't correct use of merit, I don't think its something punishable by the way. I will discourage to use merit as a prize.

It definitely sounds like using merits being offered as prizes defeats the object why merits were introduced in the first place.

@JollyGood

There is not fixed/offical rule regarding the giving of merits for posts which can be applied to this case.

Since the awarding of merits is completely subjective, people are free to merit whatever they wish to. As per theymos' words, merits are to given to posts that are worthy of being recognized (rephrased statement). However you cannot be punished for giving someone merits on a post that someone feels as not merit-worthy.

Now there are certain mega-threads where such merit distribution among regular posters there happen but I dont think this is something to be concerned.

Well if there is no such rule about merit abuse then I guess there is no way to define it.

Is there a clear definition of what merit abuse actually is?

[Bitcoinsummoner]

This is where I draw the line. Sales or trade of merit should be discouraged.

If trading merit is discouraged and it may turn into negative trust, why not for giving as award for calling correct roll? I think it is same as merit trading because the prize if offered for something which should be awarded by dollar. That means merit is being used as alternative of the dollar.

[suchmoon]

This is where I draw the line. Sales or trade of merit should be discouraged.

If trading merit is discouraged and it may turn into negative trust, why not for giving as award for calling correct roll? I think it is same as merit trading because the prize if offered for something which should be awarded by dollar. That means merit is being used as alternative of the dollar.

Will you stop with that nonsense. Buying merit is wrong, you're supposed to earn merit. Sending merit for a good post is not wrong, even if that post can earn money too. You have a paid signature - does that make you ineligible for merits?

[hilariousetc]

Still no official clarification about this.

Is the distributing of merits in this manner a violation or not?

There aren't really any official rules regarding merit or the sending of it, much like the feedback system it's left up to the community to decide what is right or wrong. Giving merit away like this should probably be frowned upon or at least discouraged though. I've seen a couple of instances in the past where merit has been used as some sort of prize for winning something and I don't think people should be doing that personally. Giving merits away as a prize or reward for getting a bet right shouldn't really be done, but at the same time I don't think giving merit to a post that posted a winning bet would be inherently bad as long as it was worthy of being merited, but specifically offering merits for this is going to encourage users to bet with them. As others have said, worse posts are merited. I even saw OgNasty merit a your favourite fruit thread which is just another shit thread that shouldn't be merited but people can merit whatever they feel is deserving at the end of the day: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265481.0

[dkbit98]

I don't see any reason and opening new topic for something like this.
Official rules does not say anything preventing users to send merits to anyone, except maybe in cases of merit abuse or merit trading (that can earn you a flag)
In fact, we have small fun topic in our local board for predicting correct price of Bitcoin on specific date.
I will reward extra merit if someone make correct prediction, and I hope I will not be burned like a witch(er) for this