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Author Topic: What is the point?  (Read 3566 times)
Explodicle
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November 23, 2011, 10:43:47 PM
 #21

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unprofitable
Hello, wake up

Bitcoin is NOT a get rich quick scheme.

You expected to become rich by downloading a software and you didn't become rich? Oh i'm so sorry (no i am not).

And price actually went up from what it was in May (1 dollar or less).

You go away? Finally a good news  Cheesy
unprofitable, mining. Mining is not ment to be unprofitable. Satoshi (did I spell that right Huh) designed it as a reward system, so it was designed to be profitable, but at this point, you can never find a block without it becoming unprofitable, and if you could find a block, at best you would come out even.

That's not quite correct. The reward system is so professional miners have an incentive, but as profits go up, more people mine and profits go back down, tending towards zero. Those who mine at a "loss" are speculating.
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November 23, 2011, 10:51:56 PM
 #22

unprofitable, mining. Mining is not ment to be unprofitable. Satoshi (did I spell that right Huh) designed it as a reward system, so it was designed to be profitable, but at this point, you can never find a block without it becoming unprofitable, and if you could find a block, at best you would come out even.

You will not get rich mining. The fact that the network auto adjusts itself is a clear sign of that. Anyway, getting rich is obviously not the point of Bitcoin.

I partially agree with you: I don't think that Bitcoin will save the humankind. Bitcoin doesn't have lots of advantages to the common consumer, but it has some interesting properties. The most interesting property is that it allows you to send any amount of money across the globe without paying fees and without relying on any corporation. This is unique and useful, but not for everyone - my grandmother will probably never want to send money to another country. So Bitcoin has a place in the world. It won't be as big as Visa or Mastercard, but for some specific goods/services it is pretty good.
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November 24, 2011, 12:42:45 AM
 #23

My online banking required 14 days from when I change my phone number to allow me to do an international transfer.

It was little under 200USD. How easy would that have been.  On that note It also cost me 20USD to do.
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November 24, 2011, 01:18:19 AM
 #24

I have been using bitcoin for a little over 6 months now, and I have decided to label the entire thing pointless. First off, at the time being, mining is impossible to be profitable, so that is off the table for earning bitcoins. All the investments you made went to shit after the bitcoin crashes back in july and august. Bitcoins went from 30 dollars to 3, in a matter of moths. That is a 90% loss, over 4ish months. Even if you can get bitcoins at a good value, what the hell are you going to do with them. The selection of marketplaces that accept bitcoins is so slim, that it is just not worth it. That is if you can keep your bitcoins, which some companies (MyBitcoin) cannot seem to do very well. So my question, Why are you staying here, and supporting this dead, useless, unprofitable, currency known as bitcoin?

Thanks,
macintosh264

Well, if profit is your game, down markets are just as great if you know what you're doing.  I've been able to profit 600% since the time AFTER the Gox hack.  I invested in a down market and have been doing splendidly.

But, that is irrelevant.  Your entire premise seems to be based on the idea that Bitcoin is about profit.  The entire thing is only a few years old...what do you expect to be able to buy with it?  Regardless, the number of available items for purchased has exponentially increased in the past year.

I'm also not sure why you need MyBitcoin to hold onto your Bitcoins.  Protect them yourself.  This may be more difficult if you aren't computer literate, but if computer illiteracy is a problem for you, then my guess is an online wallet service isn't the best option for you anyway.

I'm supporting this currency because it's not dead, its useful, I have profited and continue to do so, and because it still has the potentially to catch on mainstream.

Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

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November 24, 2011, 02:04:46 AM
 #25

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


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November 24, 2011, 02:08:57 AM
 #26

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


Okay, I have heard of Tom Williams here, but I do not know who this guy is. Someone please direct me...
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November 24, 2011, 02:12:31 AM
 #27

He's obviously joking...
Explodicle
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November 24, 2011, 02:23:31 AM
 #28

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


Okay, I have heard of Tom Williams here, but I do not know who this guy is. Someone please direct me...

Tom Williams was the pseudonym of the MyBitcoin operator. He either stole or lost half of the site's coins, refunded the remainder, and then disappeared.
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November 24, 2011, 02:27:26 AM
 #29

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


Okay, I have heard of Tom Williams here, but I do not know who this guy is. Someone please direct me...

Tom Williams was the pseudonym of the MyBitcoin operator. He either stole or lost half of the site's coins, refunded the remainder, and then disappeared.


anyone know how Tom Williams was able to cash out his huge bitcoin stash?
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November 24, 2011, 02:34:26 AM
 #30

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


Okay, I have heard of Tom Williams here, but I do not know who this guy is. Someone please direct me...

Tom Williams was the pseudonym of the MyBitcoin operator. He either stole or lost half of the site's coins, refunded the remainder, and then disappeared.

Did people really get half their BTC back?  I somehow thought that Bruce got all of his, but most people got nothing.  But I was not...er... victimized by the guy and didn't really track things that carefully.

And I should make a slight correction.  I guess 'Tom' didn't really get rich 'quickly' in that he was a fairly early adopter and it took a fair amount of time before he decided to pull the plug and cash out.


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November 24, 2011, 02:40:44 AM
 #31

...
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

For best results, be all three.  'Tom Williams' comes to mind here.


Okay, I have heard of Tom Williams here, but I do not know who this guy is. Someone please direct me...

Tom Williams was the pseudonym of the MyBitcoin operator. He either stole or lost half of the site's coins, refunded the remainder, and then disappeared.


anyone know how Tom Williams was able to cash out his huge bitcoin stash?

And while we are dreging up old memories, is it confirmed or denied that the guy's real name was something like Dalin Owen and he is a Canadian and his father was also vocal on these boards and had a real thing against Bruce?  I remember some 'whistle-blower' of sorts posting something about that, but do not much follow-up.


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November 24, 2011, 04:25:15 AM
 #32

How can bitcoin be used in the marketplace with all of its problems, and why do people stand by it when the pickings in the marketplace are so few, that the currency's only value stems from currency exchange, not the value of the goods and services it can provide.
I agree that the current incentives for the average consumer to use Bitcoin are slim, but there's entrepreneurs seeing the opportunities to create new businesses. Slowly it will become more attractive for customers as well - just not over night.
Excellent point, I mean, there are tons of successful businesses that are based off bitcoin. I am one of those, with my plunder, bitcoin debit, but I have done thinking after making bitcoin debit, and that is when I came to this realization, that bitcoin, in my eyes, is useless at this time, and I need to stop investing in, or buying into, it.

You're looking at it wrong. Because of those reasons, and the obvious potential, now is the perfect time to be investing in bitcoin—now, when the infrastructure is still being developed, and the price is still relatively low.

Banking on a rather certain long-term gain is a better investment strategy than hoping to come out ahead short-term, wouldn't you agree?

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
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In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
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ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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November 24, 2011, 04:33:53 AM
 #33

tl;dr - what's the point? To fundamentally change the monetary system of the planet.

After that, hopefully we'll realize the pointlessness of a monetary system.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
westkybitcoins
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November 24, 2011, 04:42:57 AM
 #34

tl;dr - what's the point? To fundamentally change the monetary system of the planet.

After that, hopefully we'll realize the pointlessness of a monetary system.

Human beings naturally create and use money. If all monetary systems disappeared overnight, people would just begin trading cigarettes or something else.

In any society beyond hunter-gatherer stage, there will always be some form of money.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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November 24, 2011, 04:47:25 AM
 #35

I have been using bitcoin for a little over 6 months now, and I have decided to label the entire thing pointless. First off, at the time being, mining is impossible to be profitable, so that is off the table for earning bitcoins. All the investments you made went to shit after the bitcoin crashes back in july and august. Bitcoins went from 30 dollars to 3, in a matter of moths. That is a 90% loss, over 4ish months. Even if you can get bitcoins at a good value, what the hell are you going to do with them. The selection of marketplaces that accept bitcoins is so slim, that it is just not worth it. That is if you can keep your bitcoins, which some companies (MyBitcoin) cannot seem to do very well. So my question, Why are you staying here, and supporting this dead, useless, unprofitable, currency known as bitcoin?

Thanks,
macintosh264

Well, if profit is your game, down markets are just as great if you know what you're doing.  I've been able to profit 600% since the time AFTER the Gox hack.  I invested in a down market and have been doing splendidly.

But, that is irrelevant.  Your entire premise seems to be based on the idea that Bitcoin is about profit.  The entire thing is only a few years old...what do you expect to be able to buy with it?  Regardless, the number of available items for purchased has exponentially increased in the past year.

I'm also not sure why you need MyBitcoin to hold onto your Bitcoins.  Protect them yourself.  This may be more difficult if you aren't computer literate, but if computer illiteracy is a problem for you, then my guess is an online wallet service isn't the best option for you anyway.

I'm supporting this currency because it's not dead, its useful, I have profited and continue to do so, and because it still has the potentially to catch on mainstream.

Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

I feel the need to commit on the following, the joint.

Quote
Patience, grasshopper.  If you expect to get-rich-quick in this world, then realistically you must be either extremely lucky, ridiculously skilled, or just plain unethical.

I definitely agree with half of the first sentence--patience. But how I made/make mine is not mentioned in your second sentence. Although I've reclaimed lumber in the South, I just recently restated reclaiming here in the North--from scratch. And I started in a down economy. Of course, not all I sell is reclaimed lumber. I also deal in architectural salvage. Yes, I'm a picker. And I did know Mike Wolf prior to him getting his TV show. In fact, I used to set up next to him (3 booths down) while doing the Nashville Flea Market.

The following is how I do it. And everyone reading this can do exactly the same thing and profit just as handsomely. There's this site called Craigslist, and sometimes eBay, were you scouring the listing looking for something cheap and already know beforehand who you're going to sell it to prior to purchasing it, or sometimes getting it free. It's not luck. It's a numbers game. Yes, I've been lucky, but many times I've been unlucky by missing a listing by a mere few minutes. But there's a new deal every five minutes, or quicker, on average. My passion and a little knowledge just so happens to be old wood and architectural elements. What's yours (the reader, not directed towards the joint)?

It may have to do with being at the right place at the right time, but not necessarily. I've learned years ago the definition of luck: preparation meeting opportunity.

Bruno


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November 24, 2011, 06:54:15 AM
 #36

Good point, but my question is more from a consumer standpoint. How can bitcoin be used in the marketplace with all of its problems, and why do people stand by it when the pickings in the marketplace are so few, that the currency's only value stems from currency exchange, not the value of the goods and services it can provide.

Bitcoin has it's uses from a consumer standpoint. There's the obvious things you can buy with it from a certain TOR hidden service. There's also other methods where what you're buying may not be illegal, but you would prefer it being discrete (say, paying some woman to wear high heels and stand on your nuts, if the misogynist assholes on the forums here hadn't ruined that prospect for everyone). I've been saying for the longest time that if volatility went down, online poker and gambling in general (in places like the USA) would be a huge killer app for Bitcoin.

Finally, from my perspective, it allows pain-free microtransactions. I can't accept 50c here 50c there from a group of users via Paypal or credit cards, but I can with Bitcoin.

All you need to understand is that ever since USD parity, people have been grossly over-optimistic of Bitcoin's future. There's a pretty good chance it will still have a niche in a decade's time - there's very little chance it's going to be the world's reserve currency for international trade. We're arguably still in the long slide back down from the lofty heights of bullshit expectations - where will it stop drooping? If you knew that, it wouldn't be speculation. I've not really seen anything that suggests Bitcoin is in it's death throes, but I also won't make the same mistake of guessing that the slide downward is over, either.

Either way, Bitcoin still has utility for me. I'm accepting small amounts (a tiny percentage of our company's income, such that if it went tits-up tomorrow I wouldn't really be out anything notable) from customers who probably wouldn't be customers otherwise, and I'm using them to buy some interesting shit.

^_^
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November 24, 2011, 07:40:25 AM
 #37

tl;dr - what's the point? To fundamentally change the monetary system of the planet.

After that, hopefully we'll realize the pointlessness of a monetary system.

Human beings naturally create and use money. If all monetary systems disappeared overnight, people would just begin trading cigarettes or something else.

In any society beyond hunter-gatherer stage, there will always be some form of money.

You missed the core issue.

You cant create cigarettes or "some form of money" out of thin air.

With current monetary system, ppl are effectively printing money EVERY DAY, out of thin air.

Money supply never equals to (not even close) to production.

This is why bitcoin is a proof of concept. Its finite, and cant never be created out of thin air. No corporations or government can control bitcoin supply.


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November 24, 2011, 07:52:33 AM
 #38

There are some obvious and immediate advantages to using bitcoin, but to see the bigger picture you first have to understand the problem with our current financial system. Its not so much the government's induced inflation IMO, its the money creation process itself thats entirely dependent on ever increasing debt and perpetual exponential economic growth. Its really little else than a pyramid scheme, and its not sustainable.

Maybe this will open your eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmbWBpnCNk&feature=related

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November 24, 2011, 08:38:56 AM
 #39

3) If you don't understand the usefulness of Bitcoins, then I can see why your interest is so fickle. Send me $0.10 without Bitcoin and let's see what happens. Send me $100,000 in another country and see what happens. Try opening a store and accepting credit card orders from Cote D'Ivoire and tell me what happens. Try sending a paycheck to a home bank in another country every week and tell me what happens.  Try playing online poker from the US and tell me what happens. Try sending money between two of your own bank accounts 50 times and tell me what happens. Try preventing the Government from seizing your bank accounts or inflating away the purchasing power of your money... Do you want more?

Nice list! I have one more: "Try, as a merchant, to evade taxes while dealing only with credit card payments".
And let's not forget Silk Road.


OP has a point nevertheless, bitcoin is not very useful to the average consumer right now, and probably will remain like that for a while. Bitcoin can serve very well all those use cases you mention above, and many more, so it will mostly be useful to these people and also people like us, who want to push for a positive change in this whole crappy monetary system.
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November 24, 2011, 09:07:35 AM
 #40

I'm sorry you got involved during a price bubble, but if you're going to "invest" in something you better be ready for years of volatility.
A bubble?! I thought the libertarian teachings convey that bubbles are impossible in a free market with "sound money", and that only the government can create bubbles through credit. Weird! Grin

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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