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Author Topic: What is the point?  (Read 3555 times)
realnowhereman
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November 24, 2011, 10:19:25 AM
 #41

I'm sorry you got involved during a price bubble, but if you're going to "invest" in something you better be ready for years of volatility.
A bubble?! I thought the libertarian teachings convey that bubbles are impossible in a free market with "sound money", and that only the government can create bubbles through credit. Weird! Grin
Where does it say that?

(Note: not sarcastic; I'm interested in a source)

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MimiTheKid
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November 24, 2011, 12:04:02 PM
 #42

Here are some links to the "neutrality of money":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_of_money
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_Disequilibrium_Theory
Especially the problems with this theory explain why there are bubbles.

There can be more reasons for the problems:
money-supply (debs,printing money, ...), changing (growing/shrinking) economy, changing speed in money-trades,....

Hint: the german articles contain more information.
freequant
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November 24, 2011, 12:40:38 PM
 #43

So my question, Why are you staying here, and supporting this dead, useless, unprofitable, currency known as bitcoin?
Care to explain why you think that a currency should be "profitable"?
Ask to people who have been hoarding Dollars or Euros over the last five years...

Good point, but my question is more from a consumer standpoint.
You are asking to a general group why their opinion does not follow an archetype of opinion attributed to a smaller specific group?
If something is pointless, it's your question.

I am one of those, with my plunder, bitcoin debit, but I have done thinking after making bitcoin debit,
Got it, you are here to make buzz around your product and you think people are naive enough to go check up your website.
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November 24, 2011, 12:41:49 PM
 #44

tl;dr - what's the point? To fundamentally change the monetary system of the planet.

After that, hopefully we'll realize the pointlessness of a monetary system.

Human beings naturally create and use money. If all monetary systems disappeared overnight, people would just begin trading cigarettes or something else.

In any society beyond hunter-gatherer stage, there will always be some form of money.

You missed the core issue.

You cant create cigarettes or "some form of money" out of thin air.

With current monetary system, ppl are effectively printing money EVERY DAY, out of thin air.

Money supply never equals to (not even close) to production.

This is why bitcoin is a proof of concept. Its finite, and cant never be created out of thin air. No corporations or government can control bitcoin supply.


I'm pretty sure the comment came from a Zeitgeist-centric perspective, that all money is an unnecessary impediment to human interactions. Such a perspective really doesn't look at the concept of money realistically.

That said, I agree, current monetary systems are a scam; despite the investment in them and number of people using them, they're far inferior to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
cbeast
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November 24, 2011, 12:49:21 PM
 #45

tl;dr - what's the point? To fundamentally change the monetary system of the planet.

After that, hopefully we'll realize the pointlessness of a monetary system.

Human beings naturally create and use money. If all monetary systems disappeared overnight, people would just begin trading cigarettes or something else.

In any society beyond hunter-gatherer stage, there will always be some form of money.

You missed the core issue.

You cant create cigarettes or "some form of money" out of thin air.

With current monetary system, ppl are effectively printing money EVERY DAY, out of thin air.

Money supply never equals to (not even close) to production.

This is why bitcoin is a proof of concept. Its finite, and cant never be created out of thin air. No corporations or government can control bitcoin supply.


I'm pretty sure the comment came from a Zeitgeist-centric perspective, that all money is an unnecessary impediment to human interactions. Such a perspective really doesn't look at the concept of money realistically.

That said, I agree, current monetary systems are a scam; despite the investment in them and number of people using them, they're far inferior to bitcoin.


Animals don't use money. Humans are animals. Humans don't need money. It's really that simple. Everything else is just a complex web of fallacious constructs manifested through thousands of years of FUD.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
westkybitcoins
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November 24, 2011, 01:19:52 PM
 #46

I'm pretty sure the comment came from a Zeitgeist-centric perspective, that all money is an unnecessary impediment to human interactions. Such a perspective really doesn't look at the concept of money realistically.

That said, I agree, current monetary systems are a scam; despite the investment in them and number of people using them, they're far inferior to bitcoin.


Animals don't use money. Humans are animals. Humans don't need money. It's really that simple. Everything else is just a complex web of fallacious constructs manifested through thousands of years of FUD.

Humans use plenty of things that animals don't. Whether we "need" to or not. We don't need to use language... we could conceivably survive just grunting and hanging out in trees. We don't need higher math or music. But these are things humans naturally gravitate toward, develop, and make use of. No propaganda required. And, regardless of how some people might consider it an inherent evil, money (call it "advanced trade" if it makes one feel better) is one of those intellectual constructs humans develop.

I mean, seriously. You can't have a complex society with advanced divisions of labor and support it through barter. Even if you could, no one would want to. People, as a general rule, want to simplify the process just because it's convenient. Hence, an abstract representation of the relative value of our goods and services. AKA: Money.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
chickenado
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November 24, 2011, 01:51:29 PM
 #47

1860

What is the point of electricity?  Those stupid light bulbs are bulky and burn out after a few minutes. Candles are much more reliable.

1890

What is the point of automobiles?  They break down frequently, you can't buy gasoline anywhere,  and the roads aren't suitable for them.

1980

What is the point of mobile phones? They are too heavy to lug around and phone booths work just fine.

1992

What is the point of the internet? Nobody has an email address that you can sent an email to, and it's not like it's ever going to be used for anything serious like commerce.

2011

What is the point of bitcoin...?
BadBear
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November 24, 2011, 02:03:16 PM
 #48

Agreed.  A barter system works, but currency will always evolve to facilitate transactions, and thats what bitcoin is doing.  It may never become a worldwide standard like people say, but it will still serve a niche market and that's cool. 


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teukon
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November 24, 2011, 02:04:03 PM
 #49

As with most people here I use Bitcoin because I believe in it and want to support it.  It will take time for something like this to grow and flourish but I hope Bitcoin will and eventually become an powerful tool that the whole world can benefit from.

Using Bitcoin today is like using the internet in the very early days and, I agree, unless you were excited by the idea, using the internet then was largely pointless.  My advice to those wanting a free, open, international, robust, mature, wealth transfer protocol is to simply wait a few decades.  If you ever decide to start using Bitcoin in the future you'll be more than welcome.

Personally, I get great satisfaction from actually using Bitcoin today.  I've bought hardware with Bitcoin, gambled, donated to various charities and organisations, commissioned work, and even paid for Go tuition.
teukon
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November 24, 2011, 02:13:49 PM
 #50

1860

What is the point of electricity?  Those stupid light bulbs are bulky and burn out after a few minutes. Candles are much more reliable.

1890

What is the point of automobiles?  They break down frequently, you can't buy gasoline anywhere,  and the roads aren't suitable for them.

1980

What is the point of mobile phones? They are too heavy to lug around and phone booths work just fine.

1992

What is the point of the internet? Nobody has an email address that you can sent an email to, and it's not like it's ever going to be used for anything serious like commerce.

2011

What is the point of bitcoin...?

I agree with all of this with two caveats:

Firstly, without the benefit of hindsight one cannot easily say that Bitcoin will be as important as the other advances you list.  Hopefully it will, I believe it has the potential.

Secondly, I still don't see the point of mobile phones.  The internet works just fine.  :p
chickenado
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November 24, 2011, 02:24:17 PM
 #51

Quote

I agree with all of this with two caveats:

Firstly, without the benefit of hindsight one cannot easily say that Bitcoin will be as important as the other advances you list.  Hopefully it will, I believe it has the potential.


Of course nobody can predict this for certain.

Perhaps Bitcoin will turn out like the automobile. Perhaps it will turn out like the airship. Still, it would have been exciting to be part of the airship industry in the 1930s and I would not have wanted to miss it if I was born back then.

Life is all about the journey.
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November 24, 2011, 02:36:55 PM
 #52

Quote

I agree with all of this with two caveats:

Firstly, without the benefit of hindsight one cannot easily say that Bitcoin will be as important as the other advances you list.  Hopefully it will, I believe it has the potential.


Of course nobody can predict this for certain.

Perhaps Bitcoin will turn out like the automobile. Perhaps it will turn out like the airship. Still, it would have been exciting to be part of the airship industry in the 1930s and I would not have wanted to miss it if I was born back then.

Life is all about the journey.

The airship is still too far ahead of its time. The electric automobile was the first one developed before internal combustion, it too was too far ahead of its time. Most great ideas are.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 24, 2011, 02:55:32 PM
 #53

Marking Grin

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November 24, 2011, 04:09:24 PM
 #54

I have been using bitcoin for a little over 6 months now, and I have decided to label the entire thing pointless. First off, at the time being, mining is impossible to be profitable, so that is off the table for earning bitcoins. All the investments you made went to shit after the bitcoin crashes back in july and august. Bitcoins went from 30 dollars to 3, in a matter of moths. That is a 90% loss, over 4ish months. Even if you can get bitcoins at a good value, what the hell are you going to do with them. The selection of marketplaces that accept bitcoins is so slim, that it is just not worth it. That is if you can keep your bitcoins, which some companies (MyBitcoin) cannot seem to do very well. So my question, Why are you staying here, and supporting this dead, useless, unprofitable, currency known as bitcoin?

Thanks,
macintosh264

I mainly use Bitcoin to move money from the UK to China - typically I can move about $150 per day with zero fees (actually I usually make a profit of a few $).
If you want to move smallish amounts of money internationally it's by far the cheapest mechanism.
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November 24, 2011, 04:27:52 PM
 #55


I mainly use Bitcoin to move money from the UK to China - typically I can move about $150 per day with zero fees (actually I usually make a profit of a few $).
If you want to move smallish amounts of money internationally it's by far the cheapest mechanism.

Is there an exchange in China?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 24, 2011, 04:33:56 PM
 #56


I mainly use Bitcoin to move money from the UK to China - typically I can move about $150 per day with zero fees (actually I usually make a profit of a few $).
If you want to move smallish amounts of money internationally it's by far the cheapest mechanism.

Is there an exchange in China?

btcchina.com - it's linked into the QQ payment system (that links to my wife's Bank account in China). The market depth is small, but the demand is slightly greater than on mt.gox so I can usually sell at a small profit (but my intention is just to move my money, so the profit is a bonus)
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