Proof of pure luck

[Darkelf11]

Are you building some kind of lottery? Can anyone of us has the oppprtunity to try that one out? I'm excited, I guess I can use your project to compare the results of casinos that I'm currently playing to that project. Honestly, I thought it's always the house edge that makes me lose, I never thought that some of these businesses will try to cheat through programming their games beyond their house edge.

[Fundamentals Of]

Are you building some kind of lottery? Can anyone of us has the oppprtunity to try that one out? I'm excited, I guess I can use your project to compare the results of casinos that I'm currently playing to that project. Honestly, I thought it's always the house edge that makes me lose, I never thought that some of these businesses will try to cheat through programming their games beyond their house edge.

Same thoughts here. Although we cannot access the back-end, I don't think there is manipulation or cheating there. I am talking of the leading crypto casinos. So fairness provability which could be verified with the use of third parties is good enough. I am not talking of all casinos especially those which are not licensed and are not yet very trusted by many crypto gamblers.

Of all my losses, I also think they are mainly due to house edge and not cheating on the part of the casinos. I am always playing at the most popular casinos.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Are you building some kind of lottery? Can anyone of us has the oppprtunity to try that one out? I'm excited, I guess I can use your project to compare the results of casinos that I'm currently playing to that project. Honestly, I thought it's always the house edge that makes me lose, I never thought that some of these businesses will try to cheat through programming their games beyond their house edge.

Yes I'm building a keno-based lottery. Not a casino, just a game. The game will be available to play it with real bitcoins or for free without gambling, but you won't have any profits. You can see your win rate this way and gamble with your calculations.

1 round will cost $0,50 and it will be a browser game.

[Japinat]

Same thoughts here. Although we cannot access the back-end, I don't think there is manipulation or cheating there. I am talking of the leading crypto casinos. So fairness provability which could be verified with the use of third parties is good enough. I am not talking of all casinos especially those which are not licensed and are not yet very trusted by many crypto gamblers.

That is something to find if cheating is less possible or no chance at all.
Well, that finds it more interesting to know how casino openly uses this strategy just like in the lottery. If that is proven that there is no such issues arise, it possible that most lotteries have used this one or there is another strategy similar to this. Then we can say that this a pure base luck game and only a lucky person wins with any behind-the-table activities.

[Reid]

Are you building some kind of lottery? Can anyone of us has the oppprtunity to try that one out? I'm excited, I guess I can use your project to compare the results of casinos that I'm currently playing to that project. Honestly, I thought it's always the house edge that makes me lose, I never thought that some of these businesses will try to cheat through programming their games beyond their house edge.

Yes I'm building a keno-based lottery. Not a casino, just a game. The game will be available to play it with real bitcoins or for free without gambling, but you won't have any profits. You can see your win rate this way and gamble with your calculations.

1 round will cost $0,50 and it will be a browser game.

I hope you could find a way to also put some prizes there.
That way, it could be more inviting to the testers or maybe even hardcore players will join the club. 
You are already making a game so why not go forward into putting some fun in it.
It won't need to be that much but something is still fun, right?

Regarding the provably fair discussions, I don't really look deep in it as long as I know the gambling site is trustworthy.
The good part is we have a lot of those sites in this forum. Also, I appreciate the lookouts if ever something bad is going on with gambling sites.

[VanityWallets2015]

Are you building some kind of lottery? Can anyone of us has the oppprtunity to try that one out? I'm excited, I guess I can use your project to compare the results of casinos that I'm currently playing to that project. Honestly, I thought it's always the house edge that makes me lose, I never thought that some of these businesses will try to cheat through programming their games beyond their house edge.

Yes I'm building a keno-based lottery. Not a casino, just a game. The game will be available to play it with real bitcoins or for free without gambling, but you won't have any profits. You can see your win rate this way and gamble with your calculations.

1 round will cost $0,50 and it will be a browser game.

I hope you could find a way to also put some prizes there.
That way, it could be more inviting to the testers or maybe even hardcore players will join the club. 
You are already making a game so why not go forward into putting some fun in it.
It won't need to be that much but something is still fun, right?

Regarding the provably fair discussions, I don't really look deep in it as long as I know the gambling site is trustworthy.
The good part is we have a lot of those sites in this forum. Also, I appreciate the lookouts if ever something bad is going on with gambling sites.

I agree. I want to commend you for making this thread and for the game that you have created, it will sure add fun if there are benefits from it.
I also do not want to overthink the provably fair of these casino websites in the forum, as their strategies cannot be really disclosed to the public.
While it is something that we cannot really determine, it is important to be vigilant and do not be too trustful with anything in the gambling industry.

[so98nn]

This system, known as Provably Fair, has been known for years, and it probably greatly contributed to the growth of crypto gambling industry, since it solved the problem of trusting in the fairness of the game.

Was the way I wrote known for years? I thought they made their packages open source.

Most of the part you wrote is actually in existence. I mean each time a bet is placed, each time someone wager a coin or take an action on the gambling site then a SHA is generated for it on the exact nano seconds! The only question is how do we trust the process of generating these SHA is not carrying a loose end? Though open source, they could always have an opportunity to break the rules.

However they do give out the payouts of winnings, and on each board they always carry portion of profit since number of wagers is always higher than the rolled number.

[BlackHatCoiner]

OP - This is some interesting thing you are creating it and will be looking out for it. Also, as you mentioned how do you trust if it is randomly generated or not, so for those sites which are now existing for years and build their reputation will not be doing any such things which can hamper their business or get it rigged. It may be successful for short term for such sites who do this, but for those who want to be in the long-term space will never cheat or may get exposed and their business will be over and cannot run for long.

I know that, that's why I call it experiment. My money are in a little danger, but I believe in the power of randomness. The possibilities of not winning a game are on my side.

This is how the game will look like: https://youtu.be/RGGZ4Lgurhw

[redsun114]

This system, known as Provably Fair, has been known for years, and it probably greatly contributed to the growth of crypto gambling industry, since it solved the problem of trusting in the fairness of the game. But it didn't solve trust completely, a casino can still make an exit scam, they can refuse to payout the winnings, and this cryptographic commitment scheme doesn't work for investors, which means that casinos could be theoretically defrauding them.

That's true and I agree with you 100% but then the problem of trust is bigger than the problem of knowing the provably fair system because often I am playing and I see players blaming the casino for rigging their rolls which makes me feel strange as gamblers can verify their rolls always but they still blame the casino because they feel there is still a way that the house is cheating on them.

I agree that even if the casino is not cheating in one way there are still numerous other ways by which they can cheap which can be blocking withdrawals or asking for identity proofs and forfeiting all the winnings from users.

[wxa7115]

Well, there's that type of risk everywhere in the world isn't it? We can't then trust anyone. Casinos make money off the house edge, which guarantees them profit in the long run, and they really make huge money like that. If a casino runs away by stealing users money, then that's a foolish thing they are doing, by destroying their good-will and losing on the opportunity of making much more money off the house-edge than just running away with some bucks. The high-rollers or anyone who's gambling addicted even after winning lots, will continue to play and lose in the long run because of house-edge

As you say it is foolish to do such a thing but at the same time human beings are not known for being logical all the time, for example a casino that is having a bad season and that lost a lot of money to a whale knows that they will eventually get that money back as long as they remain in business but the owner may decide that he does not want to wait that long and decides to begin to cheat their customers.

But people are not dumb for the most part people form communities and once they begin to compare results they will see no one is winning. Such a thing will be very suspicious and they will sooner or later find out they have been cheated and at that point that casino will lose any chance of recovering the money they have lost.

[target]

This system, known as Provably Fair, has been known for years, and it probably greatly contributed to the growth of crypto gambling industry, since it solved the problem of trusting in the fairness of the game. But it didn't solve trust completely, a casino can still make an exit scam, they can refuse to payout the winnings, and this cryptographic commitment scheme doesn't work for investors, which means that casinos could be theoretically defrauding them.

That's true and I agree with you 100% but then the problem of trust is bigger than the problem of knowing the provably fair system because often I am playing and I see players blaming the casino for rigging their rolls which makes me feel strange as gamblers can verify their rolls always but they still blame the casino because they feel there is still a way that the house is cheating on them.

I agree that even if the casino is not cheating in one way there are still numerous other ways by which they can cheap which can be blocking withdrawals or asking for identity proofs and forfeiting all the winnings from users.

Blocking withdrawals after asking for the KYC is the lowest type of scam that a casino can come up with but it had been posted here as scam accusation before. The casino  eventually said that the user had been cheating the casino many times before and so the reason they ask for KYC. It can be hard to beleive which side are saying the truth since its a he said she said type of argument.  But one thing is sure is that the odds are always for the casino, luck is luck.

[johhnyUA]

Let's take 20 random numbers between 1 and 80 that only the admin will know:

Code:

42,54,3,12,9,44,48,2,49,8,58,80,23,67,24

Then, let's perform SHA256 to that string:

Code:

81a147f318095a798a6dc1d108b871a008a17b80434bc3484c5dd8e906b0c523

That's all. That's the way.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The admin will generate thousands of these random "strings" and perform SHA256 to them. Then he will post on a new page of his gambling site all these hashes. Once a draw of numbers is shown, players will verify that the generated numbers produce the same hash posted on the hashes' page. Thus, they will see that the draws of numbers have already been generated and the admin can't change them for his own benefit. Players could save a copy of all the hashes so they ensure that the admin won't change the hashes.

I hope you found it interested.

Despite the fact many people above called it provably fair method, it's not like that. At least, not complete. There must be something from user side, to make it really random (as real provably fair algorithm works).

Because without it you can't be sure what exact "string" of numbers admin used. More clear:
In pure provably fair, player will get hashed seed, to compare it later with the original one, which is used with player seed (which player gives to casino) to generate some result. Without player random seed, admin could provide anything he want to you (because only he is responsible for results generation).

[Johnyz]

OP - This is some interesting thing you are creating it and will be looking out for it. Also, as you mentioned how do you trust if it is randomly generated or not, so for those sites which are now existing for years and build their reputation will not be doing any such things which can hamper their business or get it rigged. It may be successful for short term for such sites who do this, but for those who want to be in the long-term space will never cheat or may get exposed and their business will be over and cannot run for long.

I know that, that's why I call it experiment. My money are in a little danger, but I believe in the power of randomness. The possibilities of not winning a game are on my side.

This is how the game will look like: https://youtu.be/RGGZ4Lgurhw

This is how we gamble and we always look for a good combination so we can finally win the game and its fine to play randomly, really depends on the risk tolerance of the player. Gamble is pure of luck, we can’t win if we didn’t take the risk and have fun always, good luck to you OP and I want to see the result of this one.

[Inkdatar]

This makes me realize though in every game we encounter because some players don't check if the casino truly offer a provably fair system. The provably fair system has been well known for many years so this post is truly an eye opener to the players that some casino possible may rigged but even we played a lot, gambling is just pure of luck and we should know the risks that we may win or lose.

[Viscore]

This makes me realize though in every game we encounter because some players don't check if the casino truly offer a provably fair system. The provably fair system has been well known for many years so this post is truly an eye opener to the players that some casino possible may rigged but even we played a lot, gambling is just pure of luck and we should know the risks that we may win or lose.

In many case that gamblers become blind to see it because of bonuses. "Okay, I'll go for thissite because they offer us huge bonuses, a lot of free spins", but they haven't notice that they got into the trap.
We don't need to chase those luck, it comes to us momentarily. And this is a reason why I've often to choose skilled-games which we could apply our knowledge and skills just like card games and sports. It never needs luck, unlike lottery which is purely a luck-base game.

[Shasha80]

My initial goal was to play gambling as entertainment, so I didn't want to bother thinking about whether gambling was cheating or not.
In my opinion, as long as we choose a trusted gambling site with a good reputation, there is no need to worry that gambling sites are
cheating. Because it is impossible for them to sacrifice their long-established reputation by cheating, but it is up to each person. There
are people who do not feel bothered by regularly checking the fairness of gambling sites to make sure they are not fraudulent. But for me,
it is a troublesome job if I check gambling sites too often, so I can't enjoy playing gambling.

[Serious475]

My initial goal was to play gambling as entertainment, so I didn't want to bother thinking about whether gambling was cheating or not.
In my opinion, as long as we choose a trusted gambling site with a good reputation, there is no need to worry that gambling sites are
cheating. Because it is impossible for them to sacrifice their long-established reputation by cheating, but it is up to each person. There
are people who do not feel bothered by regularly checking the fairness of gambling sites to make sure they are not fraudulent. But for me,
it is a troublesome job if I check gambling sites too often, so I can't enjoy playing gambling.

Gambling is not all about luck because other gamblers are very skillful and can manipulate the card well, they can memorize which card is already thrown away and which card is still on the table. But even if they do that, those gamblers still having a problem and also needs even a little bit of luck because even if they memorize the whole game, if they cannot get a good card they won't win a single round. Gambling is really a complicated game where you may win and lose but will give you a good entertainment.

[TGD]

Gambling is 90% of luck and 10% skills on all types of game whether poker, blackjack and other games that requires analysis because during initial stage of the game. You don't know what will be your cards(in card game) or team roster condition(sports) before the game start so your luck is the one will take effect and not your skills because there's no way to predict what will come.

Many players are claiming that some gambling type requires more skills especially on poker. But what if the skilled player faced a very lucky person. Even if the pro player do cartwheel while his cards was bad as hell. He can't change anything about unless risk some money for bluffing(talking about poker).

[maydna]

This makes me realize though in every game we encounter because some players don't check if the casino truly offer a provably fair system. The provably fair system has been well known for many years so this post is truly an eye opener to the players that some casino possible may rigged but even we played a lot, gambling is just pure of luck and we should know the risks that we may win or lose.

In many case that gamblers become blind to see it because of bonuses. "Okay, I'll go for thissite because they offer us huge bonuses, a lot of free spins", but they haven't notice that they got into the trap.
We don't need to chase those luck, it comes to us momentarily. And this is a reason why I've often to choose skilled-games which we could apply our knowledge and skills just like card games and sports. It never needs luck, unlike lottery which is purely a luck-base game.

Yes, many gamblers will think like that because they see that they will get so many amounts in their account if they join on that website, and if they deposit some money, that amount will be bigger. That can make them play longer than usual, and they can enjoy and have a chance to win some money. I guess they will not think about provably fair or other things, especially if they see their balance become bigger because of the bonuses.

But still, card games and sports betting needs the luck to win
You will never know if the situation will be the same as what you predict because we don't know if the team or player conditions will be changed or not in the middle of the match. Always be wise in gambling games, so you don't have to lose too much money.

[Boov]

This makes me realize though in every game we encounter because some players don't check if the casino truly offer a provably fair system. The provably fair system has been well known for many years so this post is truly an eye opener to the players that some casino possible may rigged but even we played a lot, gambling is just pure of luck and we should know the risks that we may win or lose.

In many case that gamblers become blind to see it because of bonuses. "Okay, I'll go for thissite because they offer us huge bonuses, a lot of free spins", but they haven't notice that they got into the trap.
We don't need to chase those luck, it comes to us momentarily. And this is a reason why I've often to choose skilled-games which we could apply our knowledge and skills just like card games and sports. It never needs luck, unlike lottery which is purely a luck-base game.

Yes, many gamblers will think like that because they see that they will get so many amounts in their account if they join on that website, and if they deposit some money, that amount will be bigger. That can make them play longer than usual, and they can enjoy and have a chance to win some money. I guess they will not think about provably fair or other things, especially if they see their balance become bigger because of the bonuses.

But still, card games and sports betting needs the luck to win
You will never know if the situation will be the same as what you predict because we don't know if the team or player conditions will be changed or not in the middle of the match. Always be wise in gambling games, so you don't have to lose too much money.

What you have said mate is right. When you play gambling you need a lot of patience, faith and luck to win the game because you can't win always and there are times that you will also experience loses. This is one of the reasons why I don't see gambling as a part time job or job itself because you can't always win and your lucky day doesn't occurs frequently so you have to take the risk always in order to test your luck.