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Author Topic: btc value and currency inflations  (Read 840 times)
barbara44
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October 30, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
 #81

If currencies (especially the US dollar) are highly devalued, it wouldn't have anything to do with Bitcoin and that means Bitcoin will be worth more in dollars, and those who bought at the early stage before that happens will benefit more from it.
Well, I don't really think so because the fall of USD would mean the fall of the whole share market and there will be chaos in the market which might actually affect the price of bitcoin negatively as we had seen during the initial stages of corona virus as the market dropped down even the BTC price was down even around $5k at time if I am not wrong.

I don't think there is any reason or news to back such claims but an interesting question and a good debate although I feel that there is no way that the bitcoins won't be moved by the drop in USD because all these markets are connected to each other and if USD drops to 50% value suddenly then BTC won't double it's value in USD suddenly either.

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October 31, 2020, 10:59:27 AM
 #82

And you are completely right on your observations, a currency that can be inflated at will is something that benefits governments because they can tax you without having to pass any laws and what is even worse is that this is a tax against your wealth and not your income, which in my opinion makes it the worst tax governments can levy against their citizens, the rich benefit from this as well as most of their wealth is not on fiat money but on the form of properties and stocks which go in value with inflation, bankers benefit as well because people have to live on credit just to get by, but you know who does not benefit from this?

Well, some clarifications seem invited

First of all, inflation is generally useful for people living on credit. I'm personally aware of a few cases when a sudden, unexpected surge in inflation rates helped people to pay back their debts with cheaper money. Indeed, it is not always the case, but in general inflation is good for borrowers and bad for lenders, especially the type which can't be easily envisaged in advance and still more so for long-term loans

Then, rich people profit from inflation not so much because their wealth is in solid, inflation-resistant assets (as this can be equally true for simple people too) but mostly because they are the first to receive the money before it starts to lose value. Simple people, on the other hand, are the last to get their hands on the newly printed shekels and thus unwillingly become the target of inflation and have to bear all the nasty consequences of it
Living on credit, unless you have a solid financial situation, is the worst thing one could do. If we don't have the means to live up to our expectations then we shouldn't. Easy access to credit gave the illusion that everyone could afford anything, being a smartphone, a car or a house or whatever you like.
This is really about financial literacy something that most of the people truly don't have.
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October 31, 2020, 11:25:51 AM
 #83

If currencies (especially the US dollar) are highly devalued, it wouldn't have anything to do with Bitcoin and that means Bitcoin will be worth more in dollars, and those who bought at the early stage before that happens will benefit more from it.
Well, I don't really think so because the fall of USD would mean the fall of the whole share market and there will be chaos in the market which might actually affect the price of bitcoin negatively as we had seen during the initial stages of corona virus as the market dropped down even the BTC price was down even around $5k at time if I am not wrong.

I don't think there is any reason or news to back such claims but an interesting question and a good debate although I feel that there is no way that the bitcoins won't be moved by the drop in USD because all these markets are connected to each other and if USD drops to 50% value suddenly then BTC won't double it's value in USD suddenly either.
I agree with your point. The negative impact will be tremendous if USD value fall. And bitcoin will also become a victim of the chaos. The Covid-19 has been a tragic to all of us and the world economic system. And according to my knowledge, the price of bitcoin was lower than $4000 between March and April.

Even though bitcoin is based on the decentralization, it still connects to the world economy. Why? Because bitcoin users are us who definitely bound to our daily life and our economy. Thats what make the price of bitcoin affected if one day usd dollar drops. But no matter how madness our world could be, there will be no chance for USD to decrease to 0. Many countries rely on this currency and the USA understand their responsibilities of maintaining their Dollar and the global financial system
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October 31, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
 #84

Whatever happens to the US Dollar will have an effect on all markets in the world, including Bitcoin will be affected. Because the US Dollar is
the global currency used for international transactions, many currencies are based on the US Dollar price. So I really believe the US Dollar will
not be worthless, if the US Dollar value falls, it will definitely rise soon, otherwise there would be chaos in the world economy. Because I believe
that the US Dollar has a very big influence on the world economy.

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October 31, 2020, 02:43:35 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2020, 11:29:11 AM by deisik
 #85

First of all, inflation is generally useful for people living on credit. I'm personally aware of a few cases when a sudden, unexpected surge in inflation rates helped people to pay back their debts with cheaper money. Indeed, it is not always the case, but in general inflation is good for borrowers and bad for lenders, especially the type which can't be easily envisaged in advance and still more so for long-term loans

Then, rich people profit from inflation not so much because their wealth is in solid, inflation-resistant assets (as this can be equally true for simple people too) but mostly because they are the first to receive the money before it starts to lose value. Simple people, on the other hand, are the last to get their hands on the newly printed shekels and thus unwillingly become the target of inflation and have to bear all the nasty consequences of it
Living on credit, unless you have a solid financial situation, is the worst thing one could do. If we don't have the means to live up to our expectations then we shouldn't. Easy access to credit gave the illusion that everyone could afford anything, being a smartphone, a car or a house or whatever you like

You are talking about a different matter (aka "non sequitur")

Whether it is the worst thing or otherwise, inflation may help debtors as it devalues money and debts denominated in that money. In a more general sense, we can turn inflation in our favor because sometimes two evils or two minuses (debt plus inflation, in this case) can produce a good or a plus. Though I agree that it is not like everyone and his grandma can ride inflation to their advantage, through debt or other means

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October 31, 2020, 06:20:59 PM
 #86

It is losing its value gradually. Unlike with bitcoin, the pric eis so volatile that even in a single day you will lose a lot. Usdt is good because it is stablecoins. When we talk about stable, it is less volatile compared with other assets. Therefore, even you left your money in exchanges more than a day or night, you my expect to remain its value or it just move in a slow motion.
Do you even understand what the OP was all about? It is not demanding a comparison between USD and BTC instead it was about whether a change in the USD value will impact the value of Bitcoins and if USD becomes a victim of let's say high inflation rate then how would it impact the prices of bitcoins.

Why everyone is so confused by the difference between USD (United States Dollar, the US currency) and USDT (the digital artifact representing US dollars, printed by bitfinex)? If you are worried about USDT collapsing that's ok, that's reasonable. On the other hand, if you are worried about the disappearance of USD you will be disappointed as that is not going to happen soon.
Thank God someone also thinks like me and yes USDT market is controlled by a single firm but the USD is the regulated currency of US which means it cannot fall like digital crypto currency USDT.

There are many confused between USD and USDT then there are some who don't even understand that USD cannot be related with inflation because it is still the standard currency for almost all online transactions and doesn't face inflation too much in it's value.

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November 01, 2020, 05:57:03 AM
 #87

Since USDT is stable, it does not have much effect on its quality inflation on the dollar has had no effect on Bitcoin. This database contains all transactions that take place on the Bitcoin network and can be consulted freely by anyone so that you can participate in the creation of digital currency without providing your personal information but all your activities are public and easily searchable. There will be no need for currency violations.
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November 01, 2020, 07:24:01 AM
 #88

lets say usa dollar and all currencies will be highly devalued .....then how we know the btc value??
most traders use USDT so if something happens with usa dollar is my USDT Will be worthless over night?
Yeah, pretty much. But I'd rather be scared of USDT going down than the USD itself.
I'm more interested in why btc is skyrocketing while all stocks, alts and etc are going down.
That is the question of value
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November 01, 2020, 08:18:33 AM
 #89

First of all, inflation is generally useful for people living on credit. I'm personally aware of a few cases when a sudden, unexpected surge in inflation rates helped people to pay back their debts with cheaper money. Indeed, it is not always the case, but in general inflation is good for borrowers and bad for lenders, especially the type which can't be easily envisaged in advance and still more so for long-term loans

Then, rich people profit from inflation not so much because their wealth is in solid, inflation-resistant assets (as this can be equally true for simple people too) but mostly because they are the first to receive the money before it starts to lose value. Simple people, on the other hand, are the last to get their hands on the newly printed shekels and thus unwillingly become the target of inflation and have to bear all the nasty consequences of it
Living on credit, unless you have a solid financial situation, is the worst thing one could do. If we don't have the means to live up to our expectations then we shouldn't. Easy access to credit gave the illusion that everyone could afford anything, being a smartphone, a car or a house or whatever you like

You are talking about a different matter (aka "non sequitur")

Whether it is the worst thing or otherwise, inflation may help debtors as it devalues money and debts nominated in that money. In a more general sense, we can turn inflation in our favor because sometimes two evils or two minuses (debt plus inflation, in this case) can produce a good or a plus. Though I agree that it is not like everyone and his grandma can ride inflation to their advantage, through debt or other means
Your clarification was certainly received well. You are right, I was not commenting directly your post but I was referring to some other things which I believe are of extreme importance largely for those who begin to study and research about bitcoin.
It looks me they are important for you too.
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November 01, 2020, 08:42:05 AM
 #90

lets say usa dollar and all currencies will be highly devalued .....then how we know the btc value??

most traders use USDT so if something happens with usa dollar is my USDT Will be worthless over night?
If USD will be devalued then obviously the price of Bitcoin will rise but that price is pegged to USD.

The question is that, will all of the establishments accept it?? In order for you to buy things right now and you have Bitcoin, its either you will tell to them that you will buy Bitcoin or you will convert the BTC into USD and you will use it. It will still be the same since the price will go up at that time.

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November 01, 2020, 12:12:32 PM
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 #91

lets say usa dollar and all currencies will be highly devalued .....then how we know the btc value??

most traders use USDT so if something happens with usa dollar is my USDT Will be worthless over night?
If USD will be devalued then obviously the price of Bitcoin will rise but that price is pegged to USD

That's not set in stone at all

As there are lots of offsetting factors at play here. I guess we can safely assume that the dollar has been more or less on the decline all these years, I mean, during the era of cryptocurrencies, i.e. the last 10 years. And so what? Bitcoin rose to 20k, then collapsed to 3k, then collapsed again to 4k from 9k half a year ago. The obvious conclusion is that these other factors have much more influence on Bitcoin price that the dollar depreciation. It is also a factor indeed, but I wouldn't rely on it too much as it can be easily overridden and ultimately completely negated by more powerful factors

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November 01, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
 #92

lets say usa dollar and all currencies will be highly devalued .....then how we know the btc value??

most traders use USDT so if something happens with usa dollar is my USDT Will be worthless over night?
If USD will be devalued then obviously the price of Bitcoin will rise but that price is pegged to USD.

The question is that, will all of the establishments accept it?? In order for you to buy things right now and you have Bitcoin, its either you will tell to them that you will buy Bitcoin or you will convert the BTC into USD and you will use it. It will still be the same since the price will go up at that time.
not how I view things in this market. Bitcoin and other cryptos are not tied with the value of fiat currencies unless it is a fiat based crypto just like USDT. Regarding the acceptance of cryptos, there's what happened recently with PayPal wherein it will be accepting cryptos as mode of payment but as from what I have heard, in every crypto transaction of goods or services perhaps, there is a convertion to fiat not really a direct crypto to crypto transaction. So maybe, there will still be years for its total acceptance.
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November 01, 2020, 08:55:46 PM
 #93

USDT is not actually "stable" in the sense that you could have 100 usdt that will always worth 100 dollars but that same 100 dollars will not be able to buy the same things it can buy today that it could have bought 5 years ago, there is inflation and that means your 100 usdt loses its "value" even if it doesn't drop in price.

This is why btc value is very important to keep going up constantly, the aim of bitcoin should always be to beat the "felt" inflation, not the inflation given to you by economists who are trying to keep you at bay with good numbers and fake happiness but the amount of money you spend per year changes and bitcoin increase should be higher than that increase you have yearly. USDT can't give you that, USD can't give you that, but BTC could potentially help you with it.
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November 01, 2020, 10:53:18 PM
 #94

It is only natural that the value of Bitcoin is affected by USD performance, because most people who trade Bitcoin pairing with USDT
are backed by USD. So USD indirectly affects the price of Bitcoin, in fact all markets must be affected by the value of USD. But I don't
believe the USD will be worthless, because the American government will definitely take steps so that the USD will remain valuable.
Therefore, many countries use USD as a global currency, this proves that confidence in USD is so high.

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November 01, 2020, 10:53:54 PM
 #95

You are talking about a different matter (aka "non sequitur")
Whether it is the worst thing or otherwise, inflation may help debtors as it devalues money and debts denominated in that money. In a more general sense, we can turn inflation in our favor because sometimes two evils or two minuses (debt plus inflation, in this case) can produce a good or a plus. Though I agree that it is not like everyone and his grandma can ride inflation to their advantage, through debt or other means
Inflation is generally a useful thing within reasonable limits and stimulates the economy if the government makes inflation in a small amount. A spasmodic one-time inflation, on the one hand, helps debtors, but painfully hits the savings of citizens and undermines citizens' faith in the economic policy of the state. It also poses a problem with long-term investments. Large inflation is the most important indicator of the wrong economic policy of the state in the vast majority of cases and makes it possible to level the blunders of state policy at the expense of ordinary citizens.
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November 02, 2020, 04:13:06 AM
 #96

lets say usa dollar and all currencies will be highly devalued .....then how we know the btc value??

most traders use USDT so if something happens with usa dollar is my USDT Will be worthless over night?


If USD will lose value then all local currencies of different countries will lose value too, I don't think that will happen. Our world is dependent on fiat. Imagine if it has no value, how are you going to buy things? How can you say this is cheap or not. You can't just say something cost 1btc without depending on a fiat currency.

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deisik
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November 02, 2020, 04:54:48 AM
 #97

USDT is not actually "stable" in the sense that you could have 100 usdt that will always worth 100 dollars but that same 100 dollars will not be able to buy the same things it can buy today that it could have bought 5 years ago, there is inflation and that means your 100 usdt loses its "value" even if it doesn't drop in price

Well, that's not how "stableness" of USDT is defined

It should be stable with respect to its underlying asset, that is to say, the American dollar. It is a stablecoin whose value is pegged to the dollar, and as long as this peg is maintained, it is rightfully considered stable regardless of how much the dollar itself depreciates. Therefore, you can't say that USDT will be losing "value" along with the dollar. Fundamentally, you are implicitly trying to redefine the idea of a stablecoin but that only destroys it

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November 02, 2020, 08:10:05 AM
 #98

BTC's value is whatever you believe it is.
Do you believe btc's value is $12k because some exchange tells you?
BTC's real value for you is the price that'd make you cash em all out.
Nothing else. From which price would you cash out? $100k? That means your price is $100k for a coin.
Thats a wise thought.
It also works with most of cryptocurrencies and stocks out there.
And for most of newbie investors its a big piece of knowledge to have - its always up to you when to sell.
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November 02, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
 #99

It is only natural that the value of Bitcoin is affected by USD performance, because most people who trade Bitcoin pairing with USDT
are backed by USD. So USD indirectly affects the price of Bitcoin, in fact all markets must be affected by the value of USD. But I don't
believe the USD will be worthless, because the American government will definitely take steps so that the USD will remain valuable.
Therefore, many countries use USD as a global currency, this proves that confidence in USD is so high.
Even after printing a shit ton of USD it still didn't fell down a lot, despite fact that only US citizens received stimulus check - that means all of the world got somewhat scammed because their USD holding were devalueted to some extent.
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November 02, 2020, 11:13:04 AM
Last edit: November 02, 2020, 03:58:18 PM by deisik
 #100

It is only natural that the value of Bitcoin is affected by USD performance, because most people who trade Bitcoin pairing with USDT
are backed by USD. So USD indirectly affects the price of Bitcoin, in fact all markets must be affected by the value of USD. But I don't
believe the USD will be worthless, because the American government will definitely take steps so that the USD will remain valuable.
Therefore, many countries use USD as a global currency, this proves that confidence in USD is so high.
Even after printing a shit ton of USD it still didn't fell down a lot, despite fact that only US citizens received stimulus check - that means all of the world got somewhat scammed because their USD holding were devalueted to some extent

Honestly, I don't see a lot of sense in this

Are you unhappy that only American citizens received stimulus checks while the rest of the world, that is the part of it that holds dollars, didn't receive anything? It seems to me that you are looking at it from the wrong angle. Americans received free money because they are Americans and not because they have dollars. But did you really expect that the Fed should have given a free premium on every dollar in existence? Anyway, no one has forced you to buy dollars in the first play. For fuck's sake, you could have bought the Venezuelan bolivar or Russian ruble instead!

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