Newbie Copper member and jr member to be restricted in altcoin bounties section

[SpoiledBrat22]

I am a busy man so here is my question.

Is it possible not to allow copper membership, jr.member to post in bounties altcoin section?

The reputation in that section is already broken and the purpose of crowdfunding project has been defeated by people promoting scam and it is easy for them to do because they can get easy access in that section by using copper membership or jr.member rank with just 1 merit requirement and 30 activities for that rank and post their fake project.

Instead of reporting hundreds of them why not make it hard for them to make their scamming business?

I know it isn't about the rank but the scammers are using it for their advantage.

I think at least we can rebuild the reputation of that area by not allowing them to post in that certain section.

Edit: Sorry to confused you what I meant to restrict copper members and jr. member is to manage crowdfunding projects. If they will be restricted in managing projects there will be lesser scam projects usually promoted by them and you can check it in altcoin bounties section to which mostly copper members and jr. members are managinf scam projects.

[tranthidung]

Is it possible not to allow copper membership, jr.member to post in bounties altcoin section?

It is possible but it depends on the admin. From his moderation style, I don't think there will be more newbie jails or special restrictions on bounties (altcoins) subboards.

Even the Copper membership is not a mandatory if you want to open your account, and run a project's announcement thread here. Admin wants to keep the forum as fair as possible for the rich and the poor, for the old- and new-generations. We are all treated equally here.

The reputation in that section is already broken and the purpose of crowdfunding project has been defeated by people promoting scam and it is easy for them to do because they can get easy access in that section by using copper membership or jr.member rank with just 1 merit requirement and 30 activities for that rank and post their fake project.

You should call them as scam projects. The opposite of scam projects are good projects.

• Fake >< Real
• Scam >< Non-scam  and # than bad/ good

The world always has two sides in any aspect and we have to accept both two sides, leave with them, move forwards. What we must do is learn, practice and self-protect ourselves from scam projects, scammers.

Additionally, scam is not moderated on the forum.

Instead of reporting hundreds of them why not make it hard for them to make their scamming business?

I know it isn't about the rank but the scammers are using it for their advantage.

It does not make any sense because scammers can buy accounts and run their scam projects. Bought-accounts with rank at Full member and above look more trusted than Copper Member (with newbie rank) in the eyes of newbies. Consequently they might more easily to be scammed.  

I think at least we can rebuild the reputation of that area by not allowing them to post in that certain section.

Just let it be, I think.

The scam detectives, trust, feedback, and flag and contributions from community are enough to beat scam projects down. Reputation for that sub-board is almost zero.

If scammers run a scam project on the forum, it will be a matter of hours then scam detectives and forum's DT members will tag them (Red). The warning message for flag can help as well.


I checked and you already received answer in your another thread

Is there any by chance that those who buy copper membership will be ask of their purpose before approving their request on buying copper membership?

No. The forum administration doesn't want to decide who can or can't do things.

Largely scam projects or failing projects are created by them. There should be a way for them to stop their doings.

Educating people is the best way, scams aren't against forum rules and therefore not moderated.

theymos' opinion

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.

Edit:

It is possible but it depends on the admin. From his moderation style, I don't think there will be more newbie jails or special restrictions on bounties (altcoins) subboards.

I assume you're talking about Theymos

Yes, you are right. I am talking about theymos' opinion.

[Rikafip]

Instead of reporting hundreds of them why not make it hard for them to make their scamming business?

It's already hard for them to go unnoticed here since we have very active group of scam busters that check pretty much every new altcoin that appears in that board. Sure, some may slip through, but nothing is  100% scam proof. Most scams probably avoid bitcointalk for that reason, as they know they would get tagged almost instantly.

There were many suggestions how to deal with that board, some even went as far as suggesting to close that board altogether, but that would be an overkill, and same is your suggestion, even though is well intended and would lower to amount of crap in the altcoin section. It's simply unlikely that lower rank accounts will get more restrictions.

[cryptoaddictchie]

Instead of reporting hundreds of them why not make it hard for them to make their scamming business?

This is a free forum. Why do you think theymos would do that. Also some newbie and copper membership are not only into bounty. There are real users lurking on other sections that are good and have some nice contributions to the discussion.

Most scams probably avoid bitcointalk for that reason, as they know they would get tagged almost instantly.

Thats right. There are plenty of rugged projects but it seems that they are already skipping bitcointalk forum since they know how strict scam busters and they can easily be spotted. Well we cant actually do more than reporting. Even so, I think the process is working so no need to ammend a way for these accounts to be so restricted.

[BIT-BENDER]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5281312.msg55355911#msg55355911
Another topic just like yours, some difference like - yours was about restrictions but it was about hold-on for checking- but still there are similarities, and the replies you will-get/have-gotten already have similarities with replies on that topic, go read it.
Although you a Newbie and it not a catastrophe but you are not restricted to make suggestion, isn't that good to you? Just like you think restricting those rank will be good for that board, would it be same for  every board and your likes won't post.  
Just know what to do, figure it out.
+ Ignore trolls
+ report -scams,spams-
And do it.

[shield132]

I think the culture that we should implement on this forum is that when you come with problems, you have to come with solutions too.
There can be some things done to lessen the spam and scam in those sections but at the same time everything comes with some costs and theymos comment was interesting regarding to newbie jails.
First of all, people have to use their brains. It's bad that someone tries and scams but it's even worse that people fall as victims. People should learn how to analyze the project, why that project gives them a promise, they should understand that nice words look nice on paper and not in real life.

I think this is the best deal here, it can be like cognitive behaviour therapy for people and I think will lessen the number of scams.

[UmerIdrees]

I am a busy man so here is my question.

Is it possible not to allow copper membership, jr.member to post in bounties altcoin section?

The reputation in that section is already broken and the purpose of crowdfunding project has been defeated by people promoting scam and it is easy for them to do because they can get easy access in that section by using copper membership or jr.member rank with just 1 merit requirement and 30 activities for that rank and post their fake project.

Instead of reporting hundreds of them why not make it hard for them to make their scamming business?

I know it isn't about the rank but the scammers are using it for their advantage.

I think at least we can rebuild the reputation of that area by not allowing them to post in that certain section.

I suppose you are new here but this has been discussed many times before also and they will not impose any more restrictions on the Newbies.
Theymos have also said this clearly and i personally feel that we should not make bitcointalk a jail for a Newbies and Jr Members.

Many of these limitations can be eliminated with a copper membership. In particular, you can set a signature at Member level if you wear a copper membership.

One reason that I was hesitant to do this before is that there are an awful lot of newbie restrictions, and I don't want the forum to be unwelcoming to good newbies. I'll think about tying some of those to activity instead of rank in the future.
 

[UserU]

Even those with Copper Membership are not spared from being suspended or banned.

Yes, they paid more than a tenner to post images and banners but it's easier to lock or remove a thread or worst case scenario, suspend the user than forking out for another Copper Membership (repeat offenders).

[SpoiledBrat22]

<snip>

Yes I get your point,

But I am only advising to exhaust scammers and fraud people in their monkey business. Aren't you happy if they will get difficulties in their scam activities?

Another thing is that buying hack account is more expensive than buying a copper membership. Copper membership is unlimited while hack accounts are not. This can make a change I guess and it will going to happen if the forum wanted to.

Instead of wasting our time reporting them and taking them one by one, the effort will be put to waste since it is easier to create another project and buy a copper membership to promote the project. There is really no point in doing such report unless you only want to do is to grow your account by earning merits from each report you made in a post.

[Findingnemo]

<snip>

Yes I get your point,

But I am only advising to exhaust scammers and fraud people in their monkey business. Aren't you happy if they will get difficulties in their scam activities?

Another thing is that buying hack account is more expensive than buying a copper membership. Copper membership is unlimited while hack accounts are not. This can make a change I guess and it will going to happen if the forum wanted to.

Instead of wasting our time reporting them and taking them one by one, the effort will be put to waste since it is easier to create another project and buy a copper membership to promote the project. There is really no point in doing such report unless you only want to do is to grow your account by earning merits from each report you made in a post.

You are talking about the scam or spam? Rank is irrespective to do both these things so why you hate newbies and jr.member ranks?

Forum doesn't moderate scams so it is clear that users are responsible for any action in bitcointalk.

[SpoiledBrat22]

You are talking about the scam or spam? Rank is irrespective to do both these things so why you hate newbies and jr.member ranks?

Forum doesn't moderate scams so it is clear that users are responsible for any action in bitcointalk.

Scam activities are more harmful than restricting newbie copper member in just a certain section and that the bouties and altcoins only to start a thread.

Anyway,  it is forum admin to decide and we of course as part of community could also see lapses share thoughts and hopefully all are open to it. I am not directing anyone to do it for it was just a piece of advise or suggestion. I am no expert running a forum but that adivse was just a possibility that could happen. All of wanted to get rid of scammers I guess if not then probably you are with the scammers. Right?

[The Cryptovator]

But I am only advising to exhaust scammers and fraud people in their monkey business. Aren't you happy if they will get difficulties in their scam activities?

Wrong, you should learn how works bounty section. If your suggestion is to prevent scams then it's not a worthy suggestion. Because you can't prevent anyone to participate in the bounty campaign. Never mind they can't post on that section, if the manager allows them, then they might participate via Google form or in some other way. They might find some alternative way to proof authentication like sign message or whatever. Anyway scam hasn't been moderating by the forum to prevent moderation abuse.

If your suggestions are to prevent spams from the forum then I am with you. By preventing at least Jr. Member from posting on the bounty section would prevent lots of spams. But really a reputed member would spend time reading bounty reports. So I believed who isn't bounty hunters they haven't visiting the bounty section often. Preventing them would be a big change for the forum IMO. But at least something is better than nothing. I have doubts, the admin will not do that.

[Findingnemo]

You are talking about the scam or spam? Rank is irrespective to do both these things so why you hate newbies and jr.member ranks?

Forum doesn't moderate scams so it is clear that users are responsible for any action in bitcointalk.

Scam activities are more harmful than restricting newbie copper member in just a certain section and that the bouties and altcoins only to start a thread.

Anyway,  it is forum admin to decide and we of course as part of community could also see lapses share thoughts and hopefully all are open to it. I am not directing anyone to do it for it was just a piece of advise or suggestion. I am no expert running a forum but that adivse was just a possibility that could happen. All of wanted to get rid of scammers I guess if not then probably you are with the scammers. Right?

Scams hurts crypto community a lot but this forum is really meant for helping the upcoming community members who are newbies and low rank members so restricing them is going to act opposite to the intention of bitcointalk.

DT community, trust rating and flag systems help the people to stay away from scammers in bitcointalk so anyone who wants to get rid of scammers need to learn how to effectively use these available forum features.

[CryptocurencyKing]

If I get OP correctly,I believe what OP is trying to imply is for Newbie and copper membership accounts not to be allowed to manage campaigns and I totally agree with that notion. Of what ideas have they to manage campaigns if we are to assume them to be new accounts, coupled with the fact that, their credibility is still questionable.
On the part of restriction of newbies from participation by means of posting in that section would making a very less active section. Looking at the fact that, it's mostly the newbies that do participate more actively in that section and I've seen it as a form of reformation or correction center for people with the motive to earn. After having a lot of disappointments, it either sets their paths straight or discourages them and they end up living the forum for good.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Is it possible not to allow copper membership, jr.member to post in bounties altcoin section?

It is possible but it depends on the admin. From his moderation style, I don't think there will be more newbie jails or special restrictions on bounties (altcoins) subboards.

I assume you're talking about Theymos and if so, you're right--I wouldn't count on newbie jail being brought back and I wouldn't hope for more newbie restrictions.  The creation of the copper membership and the 1-merit requirement to rank up to Jr. Member are about as far as I think he's going to go for now.

I don't think Theymos is all that interested in combating scams on the forum, either.  Most forums have a zero tolerance policy toward scammers (sometimes even just suspected ones), but here even a proven scammer can keep operating with impunity.  OP, you're presumably new to the forum unless you're posting from an alt account, so you've got a lot to learn about the way bitcointalk operates.

[target]

You are talking about the scam or spam? Rank is irrespective to do both these things so why you hate newbies and jr.member ranks?

Forum doesn't moderate scams so it is clear that users are responsible for any action in bitcointalk.

Scam activities are more harmful than restricting newbie copper member in just a certain section and that the bouties and altcoins only to start a thread.

Anyway,  it is forum admin to decide and we of course as part of community could also see lapses share thoughts and hopefully all are open to it. I am not directing anyone to do it for it was just a piece of advise or suggestion. I am no expert running a forum but that adivse was just a possibility that could happen. All of wanted to get rid of scammers I guess if not then probably you are with the scammers. Right?

If you've created a poll, yes or no, the no votes will win.  Restrictions is just not good.
Bounties are not moderated so its going to stay that way. Somehow I agree to some point like not allowing users to keep reporting on the bounty threads because twitter and facebook reports aren't adding  "discussions" in the thread. Its just a way to keep the thread on top.

[ShowOff]

I think the OP has good intention to combat bounty scam run by many scammer with novice rank or jr members. But is this fair?

Forum and admin want to be fair to users in a way that doesn't restrict them from doing good or bad. It's just that we have to raise awareness that checking all the detail about a project is important in determining the merits of a project. The OP's advice will only take the job of most scammer hunter away, because in my opinion there are time when a scammer project can be of benefit to a particular user to improve his skill as well as provide a lot of knowledge for the user to be more careful when choosing a project.

Somehow I agree to some point like not allowing users to keep reporting on the bounty threads because twitter and facebook reports aren't adding  "discussions" in the thread. Its just a way to keep the thread on top.

There is a better method which has been suggested for a long time such as using google form. But not many maintainer implement it and it could be for some reason the thread can stay on top and visible.

[RapTarX]

Scams aren't moderated here at the first place; therefore, trying to control that would make no sense
 Moreover, everyone should be free to post. Newbie doesn't necessarily mean they can't post in that section. Campaign manager themselves can easily limit them though.

[meanwords]

Edit: Sorry to confused you what I meant to restrict copper members and jr. member is to manage crowdfunding projects. If they will be restricted in managing projects there will be lesser scam projects usually promoted by them and you can check it in altcoin bounties section to which mostly copper members and jr. members are managinf scam projects.

I kind of see your point since the bounty section is plague with threads made with Newbie-Jr. member. I even saw rows of campaigns being managed by newbies. But this ranks like Jr. member or copper member doesn't necessarily mean that they are scammers. Maybe they just want to join the campaign managing business and we all know that ranking up is hard without merits so that explains why they are stuck at Jr. Member. It's not like people would be stupid enough to not research the projects these managers are managing.

I think what you should be more aware of are bought full member accounts and up. Most scammers use this ranks to appeal to more audience.

[jademaxsuy]

Edit: Sorry to confused you what I meant to restrict copper members and jr. member is to manage crowdfunding projects. If they will be restricted in managing projects there will be lesser scam projects usually promoted by them and you can check it in altcoin bounties section to which mostly copper members and jr. members are managinf scam projects.

I kind of see your point since the bounty section is plague with threads made with Newbie-Jr. member. I even saw rows of campaigns being managed by newbies. But this ranks like Jr. member or copper member doesn't necessarily mean that they are scammers. Maybe they just want to join the campaign managing business and we all know that ranking up is hard without merits so that explains why they are stuck at Jr. Member. It's not like people would be stupid enough to not research the projects these managers are managing.

I think what you should be more aware of are bought full member accounts and up. Most scammers use this ranks to appeal to more audience.

I see few rank of full member in rank promoting projects. Besides that rank can be wasted after growing it by earning 100 merits and just promote a scam project then after it did failed or will be busted the account will be tag with red trust which could be difficult for that account to join campaign after having the red trust.

However, I think the best way to manage scam is to head on them one by one busting them out by reporting. This is better so that the admin of the forum can act against the scammer through the reports.

I had already seen visible actions of the admin of the forum after there few several projects I visited was being tag with a caution notice above the thread. That alone is enough for the scammers to get busted in their monkey business.