FACTS about Multipools and why you shouldn't mine on them

[SpainCoinDev]

Some facts all you people should know about multipools, how they game the system and how they scam both their miners and other miners

• They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.
  .
• By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.
  .
• They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).
  .
• They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.
  .

SO DON'T MINE IN MULTIPOOLS, THEY ARE SCAMMING YOU AND THEY ARE SCAMMING ALL THE HONEST MINERS THAT DON'T MINE ON MULTIPOOLS!!

No matter how "convenient" you think it is it doesn't make any sense. Your margin is too low already and you'd be better off mining just a couple of well-known coins. If you keep mining on multipools you're going to be out of business in a couple of months. Multipools destroy coins by driving honest miners away and causing blockchain issues. By the time they've destroyed all but one or two, you're out of business. And that's going to happen pretty soon because this is not sustainable.

For the naysayers, multipool owners and fanboys that want to troll this thread:

Not even DigiByte can fully protect itself even though it has the best protection at the moment (DigiShield):
http://cryptexplorer.com/chain/DigiByte
Have a look at the difficulties, it rises, the multipool leaves and then 10 minutes without a block after the multipool leaves. And this is on the coin that's protected the most against multipools.
You can see this on other coins too. It's so evident and so easy to find out that I didn't bother posting it. Well there you have it now . FACT . PROOF.
Why do you think some coins are on top at coinwarz and back down to the bottom after a while, all the time? it's not magic it's multipools raping honest miners

[Wipeout2097]

I dropped multipools a while ago when I realized their opportunism on picking "random" Doge blocks and proxying to the Ghash.io 2xLTC offer.

Their payout has been crap anyway and scrypt leads to high power consumption, so I'm not losing anything even if I didn't care about long term or those ethical issues you bring

Their no-registration, no-login is convenient though. I hope pool operators look into sparing us from the MPOS register/login/unlock/etc... nonsense

[eMiz0r]

Although I agree on your conclusion, the same problem will rise with ASIC's for Scrypt and GPU farms. Miners will be able to crush a coin singlehanded with KNC's ASIC. Not only do multipools destroy the whole concept, ASIC's and large farms are causing the same problems.

[SpainCoinDev]

I dropped multipools a while ago when I realized their opportunism on picking "random" Doge blocks and proxying to the Ghash.io 2xLTC offer.

Their payout has been crap anyway and scrypt leads to high power consumption, so I'm not losing anything even if I didn't care about long term or those ethical issues you bring

Their no-registration, no-login is convenient though. I hope pool operators look into sparing us from the MPOS register/login/unlock/etc... nonsense

Exactly. Even if you don't care about ripping other people off and destroying coins, they're so greedy they don't even give you decent payouts!! you can mine more elsewhere!

[dspair]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

[SpainCoinDev]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

Well, SpainCoin is not a scam, and you can't prove that. But I CAN prove multipools are scams. Talking about facts here.

[comeonalready]

Some facts all you people should know about multipools, how they game the system and how they scam both their miners and other miners

• They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.
  .
• By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.
  .
• They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).
  .
• They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.
  .

SO DON'T MINE IN MULTIPOOLS, THEY ARE SCAMMING YOU AND THEY ARE SCAMMING ALL THE HONEST MINERS THAT DON'T MINE ON MULTIPOOLS!!

No matter how "convenient" you think it is it doesn't make any sense. Your margin is too low already and you'd be better off mining just a couple of well-known coins. If you keep mining on multipools you're going to be out of business in a couple of months. Multipools destroy coins by driving honest miners away and causing blockchain issues. By the time they've destroyed all but one or two, you're out of business. And that's going to happen pretty soon because this is not sustainable.

Wow!  It is so incredibly amusing that you might actually believe all of this.  I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt though and assume you simply wrote it in an attempt to manipulate others.

[Trestle]

Is it multi pools or the dozens of crap coins launch each week premined and no real advancement in coding just devs looking for the rise of the coin so they can dump their premine for big money?

[rallasnackbar]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

Word.

[SpainCoinDev]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

[xbudahx]

OP, just saying something is a fact while providing no evidence doesn't make it so.

[xingqiaoyin]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

Why should we disprove every point you made.
You can't even back it up.
I'm interested in one thing.
Proof that they're making 10 times they should.
Provide us link to blockchain of spoken coin being raped and a multipool got 10 times earning.
Oh wait...you can't...

[SpainCoinDev]

Oh wait, I can
http://explorer.spaincoin.org/chain/Spaincoin?hi=8150
Have a look at the cyclic raping going on. Middlecoin mines blocks every few seconds for say 20 minutes, then leaves as soon as diff goes sky high. The few honest miners left have to mine at high diff (for a couple of hours to get a single block!) while middlecoin goes rape some other coin.

Not even DigiByte can fully protect itself even though it has the best protection at the moment (DigiShield):
http://cryptexplorer.com/chain/DigiByte
have a look at the difficulties, it rises, the multipool leaves and then 10 minutes without a block after the multipool leaves.

you can see this on other coins too. It's so evident and so easy to find out that I didn't bother posting it. Well there you have it now . FACT . PROOF.

[dspair]

Still no proof that they scam their miners.
And yes, it's not news that they mine&dump your [what is popular this month]coins.

(Why am I bumping this? I'm leaving)

[romang]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

My profits are higher with a multi pool then mining on a regular pool.

[ghur]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

This.

[mwatson]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

How about you feel free to prove every point you have made with facts?  You can't just saying something is a fact and suddenly its a fact.  How about backing up your statements with evidence?  You have some valid points, but you are taking things out of context too.

They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.

This is true, multipools do mine coins at times that are lower diff.  But do you know why those coins are lower diff?  its the fact that miners are on the multipools to begin with and not on single coins.  If everybody were mining single coins, then each coins network hashrate ON AVERAGE would not be drastically different.  Multipools cause the network hashrates to spike high, but they also cause the hashrates to spike lower than they would if multipools did not exist.  This was obviously a bigger problem for coins before coins started adjusting difficulty every block - like your own SpainCoin.  I will agree it can be a problem for coins that do not adjust their difficulty every block when multipools could cause a very low diff coin to skyrocket in diff and then abandon it for days.   There are existing solutions to this problem though and they are already implemented in many coins.

By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.

You can't prove that a pool is scamming anybody, and nobody can prove that they are not either.  The same could be said for any other single coin pool as well.  I don't care how transparent a pool claims to be, there are ways for ANY pool to skim profits.    You are right though, multipools will likely end up with more coins than a single coin pool due to taking advantage of the lower difficulty.  This is already minimized by coins adjusting their difficulty every block however.

They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).

Sure, perhaps.  I certainly know of this exploit, but I have yet to see anybody prove that a multipool is gaming the coins in this way.  Even if they are, how can you blame them?  Multipools are there to try and earn their miners the most amount of money they can by taking advantage of each coins properties.  If you were a customer of bank X, but bank Y advertised that their ABM / ATM would always give you 10x the cash you requested if you withdrew it at precisely 10:14AM on a Saturday that you wouldn't take advantage of this fact?  Do you think your local restaurant that serves wings for 1/2 price but only on a Wednesday night gets mad that they sell 90% of their wings Wednesday nights and that nobody comes on the more expensive nights?  Sorry, but this point is just a gaping hole in the coins reward system.  You can't blame anybody for taking advantage of it.

They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.

You have 2 points here that are completely different:

• Killing coins due to increased difficulty - you already said this in your first point.  Difficulty adjustments every block are already defending against this.  That's not good enough for you?  Come up with a new algorithm to defend against it then.  Don't just cry foul because you can't defend against it.  
• Yes, they do dump all mined coins.  Do you honestly think this is different from miners on single coin pools in any kind of statistically significant way?  Do you really think that people want to hold onto ToiletCoin, SyrupCoin, or whatever the shit coin of the day is?  Why would they?  The only reason they are mining those coins is because they know its going to be another pump and dump.  Why would they think its going to be anything but this?  Almost all of these shitcoin "devs" don't even believe in their coin enough to put their real name on them so why would anybody else believe in it?  The "devs" are just anonymous people on the internet. You want people to hold your coins?  Give them a reason to, make them actually valuable in some way.  I am not talking about value vs. BTC or any other coin by the way.  Make your coin useful in some fashion and people will hold them instead of just dumping them for something that actually is useful to them like BTC.

At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".

[SpainCoinDev]

Still no proof that they scam their miners.
And yes, it's not news that they mine&dump your [what is popular this month]coins.

(Why am I bumping this? I'm leaving)

Do I have to explain it?? they rake in much more than honest miners because they mine ALL the coins at dramatically reduced diff. whenever they cause diff to rise they jump to another coin. And what do thay pay you? a bit more than ltc if you're lucky, best case scenario,something like dogecoin. They're paying you the minimum they can, just to keep you satisfied. They earn lots more. They're laughing at you as we speak.

[Wipeout2097]

Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

I will not counter-argue the rest of your post, but here, despite your view on coins, you are actually agreeing with him, are you not?

I've never seen complains about what multipools were mining. Where's the outrage if a multipool is mining "shitty clones", sometimes even outright IPO scams, as long as it craps out more BTC for your hash?

Multipools kill shitty clones and good coins alike. Why do you think Nxt and Blackcoin promoters started multipools that pay out in Nxt and BC, and others are looking into the same? Try to figure that one out.

One thing is liking the convenience of profit-pools that payout in BTC, quite another is ignoring that this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. What kind of long-term investor would want to be on the wrong side of dumps, specially coins that still have high block reward ?

[SpainCoinDev]

At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".

We have the same facts basically. You're saying exploiting whatever you can is right, i.e. your neighbour drops his car keys, you should take his car and take off, it's all good. I say it's not right and miners should know what they're doing when mining at a multipool.