FACTS about Multipools and why you shouldn't mine on them

[SpainCoinDev]

Some facts all you people should know about multipools, how they game the system and how they scam both their miners and other miners

• They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.
  .
• By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.
  .
• They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).
  .
• They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.
  .

SO DON'T MINE IN MULTIPOOLS, THEY ARE SCAMMING YOU AND THEY ARE SCAMMING ALL THE HONEST MINERS THAT DON'T MINE ON MULTIPOOLS!!

No matter how "convenient" you think it is it doesn't make any sense. Your margin is too low already and you'd be better off mining just a couple of well-known coins. If you keep mining on multipools you're going to be out of business in a couple of months. Multipools destroy coins by driving honest miners away and causing blockchain issues. By the time they've destroyed all but one or two, you're out of business. And that's going to happen pretty soon because this is not sustainable.

For the naysayers, multipool owners and fanboys that want to troll this thread:

Not even DigiByte can fully protect itself even though it has the best protection at the moment (DigiShield):
http://cryptexplorer.com/chain/DigiByte
Have a look at the difficulties, it rises, the multipool leaves and then 10 minutes without a block after the multipool leaves. And this is on the coin that's protected the most against multipools.
You can see this on other coins too. It's so evident and so easy to find out that I didn't bother posting it. Well there you have it now . FACT . PROOF.
Why do you think some coins are on top at coinwarz and back down to the bottom after a while, all the time? it's not magic it's multipools raping honest miners

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[Wipeout2097]

I dropped multipools a while ago when I realized their opportunism on picking "random" Doge blocks and proxying to the Ghash.io 2xLTC offer.

Their payout has been crap anyway and scrypt leads to high power consumption, so I'm not losing anything even if I didn't care about long term or those ethical issues you bring

Their no-registration, no-login is convenient though. I hope pool operators look into sparing us from the MPOS register/login/unlock/etc... nonsense

[eMiz0r]

Although I agree on your conclusion, the same problem will rise with ASIC's for Scrypt and GPU farms. Miners will be able to crush a coin singlehanded with KNC's ASIC. Not only do multipools destroy the whole concept, ASIC's and large farms are causing the same problems.

[SpainCoinDev]

I dropped multipools a while ago when I realized their opportunism on picking "random" Doge blocks and proxying to the Ghash.io 2xLTC offer.

Their payout has been crap anyway and scrypt leads to high power consumption, so I'm not losing anything even if I didn't care about long term or those ethical issues you bring

Their no-registration, no-login is convenient though. I hope pool operators look into sparing us from the MPOS register/login/unlock/etc... nonsense

Exactly. Even if you don't care about ripping other people off and destroying coins, they're so greedy they don't even give you decent payouts!! you can mine more elsewhere!

[dspair]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

[SpainCoinDev]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

Well, SpainCoin is not a scam, and you can't prove that. But I CAN prove multipools are scams. Talking about facts here.

[comeonalready]

Some facts all you people should know about multipools, how they game the system and how they scam both their miners and other miners

• They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.
  .
• By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.
  .
• They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).
  .
• They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.
  .

SO DON'T MINE IN MULTIPOOLS, THEY ARE SCAMMING YOU AND THEY ARE SCAMMING ALL THE HONEST MINERS THAT DON'T MINE ON MULTIPOOLS!!

No matter how "convenient" you think it is it doesn't make any sense. Your margin is too low already and you'd be better off mining just a couple of well-known coins. If you keep mining on multipools you're going to be out of business in a couple of months. Multipools destroy coins by driving honest miners away and causing blockchain issues. By the time they've destroyed all but one or two, you're out of business. And that's going to happen pretty soon because this is not sustainable.

Wow!  It is so incredibly amusing that you might actually believe all of this.  I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt though and assume you simply wrote it in an attempt to manipulate others.

[Trestle]

Is it multi pools or the dozens of crap coins launch each week premined and no real advancement in coding just devs looking for the rise of the coin so they can dump their premine for big money?

[rallasnackbar]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

Word.

[SpainCoinDev]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

[xbudahx]

OP, just saying something is a fact while providing no evidence doesn't make it so.

[xingqiaoyin]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

Why should we disprove every point you made.
You can't even back it up.
I'm interested in one thing.
Proof that they're making 10 times they should.
Provide us link to blockchain of spoken coin being raped and a multipool got 10 times earning.
Oh wait...you can't...

[SpainCoinDev]

Oh wait, I can
http://explorer.spaincoin.org/chain/Spaincoin?hi=8150
Have a look at the cyclic raping going on. Middlecoin mines blocks every few seconds for say 20 minutes, then leaves as soon as diff goes sky high. The few honest miners left have to mine at high diff (for a couple of hours to get a single block!) while middlecoin goes rape some other coin.

Not even DigiByte can fully protect itself even though it has the best protection at the moment (DigiShield):
http://cryptexplorer.com/chain/DigiByte
have a look at the difficulties, it rises, the multipool leaves and then 10 minutes without a block after the multipool leaves.

you can see this on other coins too. It's so evident and so easy to find out that I didn't bother posting it. Well there you have it now . FACT . PROOF.

[dspair]

Still no proof that they scam their miners.
And yes, it's not news that they mine&dump your [what is popular this month]coins.

(Why am I bumping this? I'm leaving)

[romang]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

My profits are higher with a multi pool then mining on a regular pool.

[ghur]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

This.

[mwatson]

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

How about you feel free to prove every point you have made with facts?  You can't just saying something is a fact and suddenly its a fact.  How about backing up your statements with evidence?  You have some valid points, but you are taking things out of context too.

They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.

This is true, multipools do mine coins at times that are lower diff.  But do you know why those coins are lower diff?  its the fact that miners are on the multipools to begin with and not on single coins.  If everybody were mining single coins, then each coins network hashrate ON AVERAGE would not be drastically different.  Multipools cause the network hashrates to spike high, but they also cause the hashrates to spike lower than they would if multipools did not exist.  This was obviously a bigger problem for coins before coins started adjusting difficulty every block - like your own SpainCoin.  I will agree it can be a problem for coins that do not adjust their difficulty every block when multipools could cause a very low diff coin to skyrocket in diff and then abandon it for days.   There are existing solutions to this problem though and they are already implemented in many coins.

By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.

You can't prove that a pool is scamming anybody, and nobody can prove that they are not either.  The same could be said for any other single coin pool as well.  I don't care how transparent a pool claims to be, there are ways for ANY pool to skim profits.    You are right though, multipools will likely end up with more coins than a single coin pool due to taking advantage of the lower difficulty.  This is already minimized by coins adjusting their difficulty every block however.

They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).

Sure, perhaps.  I certainly know of this exploit, but I have yet to see anybody prove that a multipool is gaming the coins in this way.  Even if they are, how can you blame them?  Multipools are there to try and earn their miners the most amount of money they can by taking advantage of each coins properties.  If you were a customer of bank X, but bank Y advertised that their ABM / ATM would always give you 10x the cash you requested if you withdrew it at precisely 10:14AM on a Saturday that you wouldn't take advantage of this fact?  Do you think your local restaurant that serves wings for 1/2 price but only on a Wednesday night gets mad that they sell 90% of their wings Wednesday nights and that nobody comes on the more expensive nights?  Sorry, but this point is just a gaping hole in the coins reward system.  You can't blame anybody for taking advantage of it.

They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.

You have 2 points here that are completely different:

• Killing coins due to increased difficulty - you already said this in your first point.  Difficulty adjustments every block are already defending against this.  That's not good enough for you?  Come up with a new algorithm to defend against it then.  Don't just cry foul because you can't defend against it.  
• Yes, they do dump all mined coins.  Do you honestly think this is different from miners on single coin pools in any kind of statistically significant way?  Do you really think that people want to hold onto ToiletCoin, SyrupCoin, or whatever the shit coin of the day is?  Why would they?  The only reason they are mining those coins is because they know its going to be another pump and dump.  Why would they think its going to be anything but this?  Almost all of these shitcoin "devs" don't even believe in their coin enough to put their real name on them so why would anybody else believe in it?  The "devs" are just anonymous people on the internet. You want people to hold your coins?  Give them a reason to, make them actually valuable in some way.  I am not talking about value vs. BTC or any other coin by the way.  Make your coin useful in some fashion and people will hold them instead of just dumping them for something that actually is useful to them like BTC.

At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".

[SpainCoinDev]

Still no proof that they scam their miners.
And yes, it's not news that they mine&dump your [what is popular this month]coins.

(Why am I bumping this? I'm leaving)

Do I have to explain it?? they rake in much more than honest miners because they mine ALL the coins at dramatically reduced diff. whenever they cause diff to rise they jump to another coin. And what do thay pay you? a bit more than ltc if you're lucky, best case scenario,something like dogecoin. They're paying you the minimum they can, just to keep you satisfied. They earn lots more. They're laughing at you as we speak.

[Wipeout2097]

Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

I will not counter-argue the rest of your post, but here, despite your view on coins, you are actually agreeing with him, are you not?

I've never seen complains about what multipools were mining. Where's the outrage if a multipool is mining "shitty clones", sometimes even outright IPO scams, as long as it craps out more BTC for your hash?

Multipools kill shitty clones and good coins alike. Why do you think Nxt and Blackcoin promoters started multipools that pay out in Nxt and BC, and others are looking into the same? Try to figure that one out.

One thing is liking the convenience of profit-pools that payout in BTC, quite another is ignoring that this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. What kind of long-term investor would want to be on the wrong side of dumps, specially coins that still have high block reward ?

[SpainCoinDev]

At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".

We have the same facts basically. You're saying exploiting whatever you can is right, i.e. your neighbour drops his car keys, you should take his car and take off, it's all good. I say it's not right and miners should know what they're doing when mining at a multipool.

[ghur]

They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.

They only "kill" coins with terrible parameters and incompetent devs, like Auroracoin.

[comeonalready]

At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".

We have the same facts basically. You're saying exploiting whatever you can is right, i.e. your neighbour drops his car keys, you should take his car and take off, it's all good. I say it's not right and miners should know what they're doing when mining at a multipool.

I am no longer giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Your thoughts truly are amusing and oh so delusional.

Please do keep posting though.  I am enjoying your rant.

[eleuthria]

Solution: Quit making SHITCOINS and the Multipools will vanish.

As long as there are shitcoins to rape and pillage, the Multipools will continue to do so.

[Minerist]

Yeah, spaincoin dev is talking about scam. Fucker, shut the fuck you. Your pump and dump venture is not a scam at all ololo
p.s. I think he just got a bit of a butthurt from multipool rising his diff but he was too retarded to develop his coin properly.

[iopq]

Fact: random block rewards is a shitty idea and stupid coins are being punished for it

[PCMiner]

Solution: Quit making SHITCOINS and the Multipools will vanish.

As long as there are shitcoins to rape and pillage, the Multipools will continue to do so.

Here here.  It's time to cull the herd.  I say multi-pools team up to crush all the crap coins.  Consolidate crypto a bit, will help level things out across the market.   Let the strong survive.  If your coin has a decent following and the hash behind it, it will weather the storm.  All the other ScamyMcCryptocoins deserve to go away tho.

[eMiz0r]

Solution: Quit making SHITCOINS and the Multipools will vanish.

As long as there are shitcoins to rape and pillage, the Multipools will continue to do so.

Here here.  It's time to cull the herd.  I say multi-pools team up to crush all the crap coins.  Consolidate crypto a bit, will help level things out across the market.   Let the strong survive.  If your coin has a decent following and the hash behind it, it will weather the storm.  All the other ScamyMcCryptocoins deserve to go away tho.

True, time to crush Litecoin! Another shitcoin actually. Total hashrate is +/- 170 GH/s, but Wafflepool/Clevermining and Middlecoin combined had last week 70 GH/s, or 40% of the LTC total hashrate.

Multipools in general are not the problem, but their huge hashrate is.

[Equate]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

[ghur]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

Multipools deliver a service as advertised. It's not a scam.

[SpainCoinDev]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

The fee is irrelevant, it's nothing. The thing is they're not taking just the fee. read the first post. They get much more by gaming the difficulty jumping coins, variable reward coins, and so on. Then they pay the miners just enough not to disappoint them.

[Equate]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

Multipools deliver a service as advertised. It's not a scam.

then you didn't have experience with multipool , I mined on multipool.us and then left because my unconfirmed coins are not confirmed even after two weeks when I left and one day I checked my account it's gone and not credited so from that day I realise it's a scam pool.

[Trestle]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

The fee is irrelevant, it's nothing. The thing is they're not taking just the fee. read the first post. They get much more by gaming the difficulty jumping coins, variable reward coins, and so on. Then they pay the miners just enough not to disappoint them.

 Still yet they pay out more then you can mine on a single coin on your own or if mining a single coin in a pool. Multipools are about making money not about supporting coins. Unless you are willing to put in the work of jumping coin to coin and have multiple pools set up in your mining software to be able to do this on your own it is worth it to pay the multipool fee.  I get that you are trying to help your coin but I gotta be honest, you just sound like a Dev burned by multipools because you did not look at the current landscape of mining and build the features into your coin to protect from the huge diff jump from a multi mining your coin. Since you were just a clone coin I don't really understand how you did not see this coming. Multipools may be tough on coins that are not built correctly. But they were the only answer to all the CopyCat get rich over night with premine coins that were being flooded onto the market. If you want your coin to make it show some advancement in code. Build a community to support that advancement. Greedy DEVs (Not all of them BTW) are what created this current situation with the coin markets.

[ghur]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

Multipools deliver a service as advertised. It's not a scam.

then you didn't have experience with multipool , I mined on multipool.us and then left because my unconfirmed coins are not confirmed even after two weeks when I left and one day I checked my account it's gone and not credited so from that day I realise it's a scam pool.

Sounds like you were doing it wrong.

[SpainCoinDev]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

The fee is irrelevant, it's nothing. The thing is they're not taking just the fee. read the first post. They get much more by gaming the difficulty jumping coins, variable reward coins, and so on. Then they pay the miners just enough not to disappoint them.

 Still yet they pay out more then you can mine on a single coin on your own or if mining a single coin in a pool. Multipools are about making money not about supporting coins. Unless you are willing to put in the work of jumping coin to coin and have multiple pools set up in your mining software to be able to do this on your own it is worth it to pay the multipool fee.  I get that you are trying to help your coin but I gotta be honest, you just sound like a Dev burned by multipools because you did not look at the current landscape of mining and build the features into your coin to protect from the huge diff jump from a multi mining your coin. Since you were just a clone coin I don't really understand how you did not see this coming. Multipools may be tough on coins that are not built correctly. But they were the only answer to all the CopyCat get rich over night with premine coins that were being flooded onto the market. If you want your coin to make it show some advancement in code. Build a community to support that advancement. Greedy DEVs (Not all of them BTW) are what created this current situation with the coin markets.

I should have yeah, but I didn't see it coming because I don't watch small coins and crapcoins and KGW was "supposedly" enough. It's definitely not. Digishield is better but still exploitable (at least it keeps the time between blocks more even). Plain Scrypt is definitely not an option anymore for a new coin either.

And again, about multipools... you have it wrong:

• You don't get practically any advantage by jumping coins as a single miner. The advantage is gained when you have a significant (multipool) hashrate compared to the whole net hashrate because the multipool mines at a diff that corresponds to a hashrate say 10 times lower than its own. Until it goes up, which causes the multipool to leave and screw the honest miners.
  The multipool thus mines at the  honest miners diff, and the honest miners mine at the multipool's diff. This can mean 10x profit for the multipool, and in time a dead coin for honest miners.
• This huge extra profit the multipool makes IS NOT PASSED ON TO THE MINERS!! multipools pay barely enough to keep miners there. It doesn't take much to keep a miner lazy enough not to pick coins and pools. The multipool keeps the rest!

[ghur]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

The fee is irrelevant, it's nothing. The thing is they're not taking just the fee. read the first post. They get much more by gaming the difficulty jumping coins, variable reward coins, and so on. Then they pay the miners just enough not to disappoint them.

 Still yet they pay out more then you can mine on a single coin on your own or if mining a single coin in a pool. Multipools are about making money not about supporting coins. Unless you are willing to put in the work of jumping coin to coin and have multiple pools set up in your mining software to be able to do this on your own it is worth it to pay the multipool fee.  I get that you are trying to help your coin but I gotta be honest, you just sound like a Dev burned by multipools because you did not look at the current landscape of mining and build the features into your coin to protect from the huge diff jump from a multi mining your coin. Since you were just a clone coin I don't really understand how you did not see this coming. Multipools may be tough on coins that are not built correctly. But they were the only answer to all the CopyCat get rich over night with premine coins that were being flooded onto the market. If you want your coin to make it show some advancement in code. Build a community to support that advancement. Greedy DEVs (Not all of them BTW) are what created this current situation with the coin markets.

I should have yeah, but I didn't see it coming because I don't watch small coins and crapcoins and KGW was "supposedly" enough. It's definitely not. Digishield is better but still exploitable (at least it keeps the time between blocks more even). Plain Scrypt is definitely not an option anymore for a new coin either.

And again, about multipools... you have it wrong:

• You don't get practically any advantage by jumping coins as a single miner. The advantage is gained when you have a significant (multipool) hashrate compared to the whole net hashrate because the multipool mines at a diff that corresponds to a hashrate say 10 times lower than its own. Until it goes up, which causes the multipool to leave and screw the honest miners.
  The multipool thus mines at the  honest miners diff, and the honest miners mine at the multipool's diff. This can mean 10x profit for the multipool, and in time a dead coin for honest miners.
• This huge extra profit the multipool makes IS NOT PASSED ON TO THE MINERS!! multipools pay barely enough to keep miners there. It doesn't take much to keep a miner lazy enough not to pick coins and pools. The multipool keeps the rest!

Yeah.. You don't have a clue how any of this works.
Your posts are downright painful to read.

[SpainCoinDev]

Yeah.. You don't have a clue how any of this works.
Your posts are downright painful to read.

lmao. so teach me. I'm quite humble 

[eMiz0r]

I disagree that multipools are scamming their users, but what I do know is when every miner joins a multipool, mining will be dead.

The whole point of mining profitable is when other users (so called "investors") are buying coins so their value will rise because of the buy orders. Individual miners can decide to hold and sell at a later point, while multipools sell off their coins immediately for BTC. No coin, not BTC/LTC or any other coin can survive daily selloffs without enough investors. SPA included, also AUR, BC or other coins.

So whenever multipools get too big and keep flooding every coin they mine on #exchange, the value will definately never rise and it is only waiting until that specific coin heads on to 1 satoshi.

[Equate]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

How is paying a fee for a pool to manage your hash power effectively a scam?
Sure you could micro-manage your rigs yourself and maximize your profits, but is your own time in doing that really worth less than the fee paid to multipools?

Multipools deliver a service as advertised. It's not a scam.

then you didn't have experience with multipool , I mined on multipool.us and then left because my unconfirmed coins are not confirmed even after two weeks when I left and one day I checked my account it's gone and not credited so from that day I realise it's a scam pool.

Sounds like you were doing it wrong.

It shows that you know nothing

[Minerist]

Yeah if the time to research a profitable coin, good pool, exchange, configuring miners, selling coin is worth nothing to you - just get a mcdonalds job, it will pay you a stable hourly wage and will teach you to appreciate your time. Fortunately my time worth a lot to me so i just pay a fee to multipool to manage my hashing power. And if they crash shitcoins, well, it's a fault of shitcoin and not multipool
And if a multipool scammed you (speaking about a real scam like not paying out your earnings) - it can be done on any normal pool too, has absolutely nothing to do with pool being multi or not.

Fun to see spaincoin butthurt.

[SpainCoinDev]

Yeah if the time to research a profitable coin, good pool, exchange, configuring miners, selling coin is worth nothing to you - just get a mcdonalds job, it will pay you a stable hourly wage and will teach you to appreciate your time. Fortunately my time worth a lot to me so i just pay a fee to multipool to manage my hashing power. And if they crash shitcoins, well, it's a fault of shitcoin and not multipool
And if a multipool scammed you (speaking about a real scam like not paying out your earnings) - it can be done on any normal pool too, has absolutely nothing to do with pool being multi or not.

Fun to see spaincoin butthurt.

No, Spaincoin is just fine now. You, on the other hand, are going to be a sad gpu-bagholder when gpu mining becomes unprofitable for you which will happen pretty soon and you'll be left with expensive equipment you'll have to sell at a big loss. It's not "fun" to see you there though, I don't give a damn.

[Trestle]

My equipment paid for itself out of mining profits. No loss to me. If scrypt hits bottom there are already GPU miners out for all of the current coins. I am sure my equipment will be fine.

[SpainCoinDev]

My equipment paid for itself out of mining profits. No loss to me. If scrypt hits bottom there are already GPU miners out for all of the current coins. I am sure my equipment will be fine.

You got confused, I was talking to your other account, "Minerist". Not Trestle. Thanks for making it obvious though, that this thread is full of multipool-affiliated fake identities.

[Trestle]

My equipment paid for itself out of mining profits. No loss to me. If scrypt hits bottom there are already GPU miners out for all of the current coins. I am sure my equipment will be fine.

You got confused, I was talking to your other account, "Minerist". Not Trestle. Thanks for making it obvious though, that this thread is full of multipool-affiliated fake identities.

 LOL Only one account here. No worries though. I'd rather not spend my time arguing with an idiot. Sad that people like you can copy paste new coins and ruin the market even more. Have a nice day hope your shit coin dies quickly so you go away. Best feature on this site Ignore.

[Equate]

@SpainCoinDev don't waste your energy to make them understand what they don't want to understand.If they want to get scammed, let them scammed.

[ghur]

@SpainCoinDev don't waste your energy to make them understand what they don't want to understand.If they want to get scammed, let them scammed.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over all the BTC in my wallet.

You should stop doing it wrong.

[Multicoin]

I don't know what others do, but everything that is relating to payouts with my multipool is public. (reference http://multicoinpool.org/index.php?page=statistics&action=round add the totals minus Perfection and Southpaw; testing autotrade together right now.)

I also don't "gain on the difficulty." If it happens to be profitable using math, then that is what is mined. (reference http://multicoinpool.org/index.php?page=statistics&action=profitability )

If other multipools don't give enough transparency I can see where you are coming from, but you are assuming that all are bad apples because there could (not implying there is or isn't,) be a trend with a few popular pools.

[mmihai1978]

I am really curious how come multipools mine only the profitable blocks. how do they guess the reward? for doge, for example.

[ghur]

I am really curious how come multipools mine only the profitable blocks. how do they guess the reward? for doge, for example.

Doge removed the "random" rewards. But before that, the reward is based on the previous block, so it could always be predicted.
This isn't new, this has been known for quite some time and has been one of the larger sources of income for most multipools.

[Minerist]

Yeah i've only one account
Looking at my BTC that i got from middlecoin(and still getting) and can't see how am i wrong.
You seem to be full of conspiracy theories and paranoya lol

[SpainCoinDev]

you're getting what you'd get by mining honestly. the multipool is keeping the rest that it gets by gaming the system. That you actually get paid means nothing. Of course you do. They need you mining there, and they pay you just barely enough for you to be idiotically happy about it.

about random rewards,it's not just dogecoin. They reaped huge gains from dogecoin in the past months but there were always USDe, lottocoin, luckycoin... these are still exploitable now. Multipools rape them when the block reward is going to be high.

[eleuthria]

you're getting what you'd get by mining honestly. the multipool is keeping the rest that it gets by gaming the system. That you actually get paid means nothing. Of course you do. They need you mining there, and they pay you just barely enough for you to be idiotically happy about it.

about random rewards,it's not just dogecoin. They reaped huge gains from dogecoin in the past months but there were always USDe, lottocoin, luckycoin... these are still exploitable now. Multipools rape them when the block reward is going to be high.

Could be true for some multipools, but making a blanket statement like that makes you look like a dumbass.  You have no proof this takes place on any pool, let alone ALL.  In the case of ScryptGuild the stats are clearly there, the miners see what coins they mined and can either let the pool convert it or do the trading themselves.

[zneww]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

[Minerist]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

I second that.
And even if they steal, well, i'm ready to pay for my convenience

[MiningSensei]

I wanted to make this thread about a month ago but never got around to it.  I completely agree. Multipools need to be taken down.  Don't forget about the autosell feature that just allows miners to dump coins as soon as they get them.

 If you want to make real money mining then get on a real pool, mine a coin with good potential, and hold until the value rises so you get more bang for your hashing power without destroying hard work put into good coins.

[nbphuoc]

Not with this pool: http://tauruspool.com/multipool
All the mined blocks are published, exchange rates are published. Not a single coin is lost for miners.

[PCMiner]

LOL, [insert county]coin dev talks about scams.

No, multipools don't scam miners.
Yes, multipools can kill your shitty clone coins.

I second that.
And even if they steal, well, i'm ready to pay for my convenience

Third.  I like the ease of use multi pools offer.

Also,  It's humorous to read scamcoins claiming that multipools are scams.  Wake up sheeple!

[zneww]

Not with this pool: http://tauruspool.com/multipool
All the mined blocks are published, exchange rates are published. Not a single coin is lost for miners.

yay another multipool

[SpainCoinDev]

Not with this pool: http://tauruspool.com/multipool
All the mined blocks are published, exchange rates are published. Not a single coin is lost for miners.

Your pool is far too small (15Mh is tiny) to be able game the system. As soon as you get big enough you'll be able to rape coins and scam miners, just like pretty much every other multipool does. Besides, publishing blocks mined means nothing, you could mine more blocks than you claim you mined, of course at this point cheating on that is pointless for you, because you can't game the system yet anyway- you're not in a position yet to be able to scam miners.

[fcmatt]

Dont worry too much about it. The market is fixing the problem as we type. Most multipools are just doge/litecoin pools now.
New coins will just have to adapt their algorithms.
Multipools pay so little over mining doge or lite... Many of us just switch back to litecoin mining as it has more potential for growth in the medium term with less risk then others.

[Minerist]

But also regular pool are destroying coins! They mine them! Then people sell them! And pool owners CAN STEAL YOUR MONEY AWARE SCAM SCAM SACAM

[flound1129]

Does anyone else see the irony in the Spaincoin dev coming in here and calling anything a 'scam'?

But anyway, to state that Multipools earn less than mining a single coin is not accurate.  If it was, nobody would mine on them.  See, there's one thing miners are very sensitive to and that's profits.

Miners have a choice in pools, and some are more transparent than others.  You can get a general sense of how profit-switching pools are doing (vs. LTC at least) by using a site like poolpicker.eu, or test yourself.  But if someone wants to throw their hash down a hole and get a payment in BTC who are we to judge.

[Operatr]

I've noticed on Coinwarz that a lot of the alts hashrates are whipsawing all over the place, likely because of multipools.

I used them for a while but am planning to move to P2Pool because we should support peering opposed to centralized pools which have proven dangerous. If you want to mine different kinds of coins, set up dedicated miners for them, and pick coins that are actually offering something beyond just existing as a speculative plaything.  

In my case multipooling actually screwed me, with Continuumcoin in particular. My miners pulled in a bunch of it, and then the coin basically died at the exchanges leaving me with a pile of coins I cannot get rid of. From now on I will only mine coins with solid trade volume.

[dwma]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

So which is it?  Multipools make more profits or they don't...  ?

This site is just full of people posting with agendas.  I'm sure some multipools scam and some don't.  This blanket statement is absurd though.

[SpainCoinDev]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

So which is it?  Multipools make more profits or they don't...  ?

This site is just full of people posting with agendas.  I'm sure some multipools scam and some don't.  This blanket statement is absurd though.

We've been very clear about it. Multipools make very healthy profits. Multipools don't give said profits to their miners.
The only multipools that don't scam are those which can't (those that don't have a significant enough hashpower to rape coins).

[XScrypt]

Multipool is the biggest scam scheme implemented to scam the miners.You will always get less as compare to when your are mining on a single pool.

So which is it?  Multipools make more profits or they don't...  ?

This site is just full of people posting with agendas.  I'm sure some multipools scam and some don't.  This blanket statement is absurd though.

We've been very clear about it. Multipools make very healthy profits. Multipools don't give said profits to their miners.
The only multipools that don't scam are those which can't (those that don't have a significant enough hashpower to rape coins).

You're basically making things up. Unless you can personally audit the transactions you have no proof one way or the other whether ANY pool is scamming you. Just because they throw up numbers on a web page does not mean those numbers have anything to do with reality. There's no organization like the SEC or FDIC who comes through and audits the books to make sure everyone is playing nice.

[TrollboxChamp]

Does anyone else see the irony in the Spaincoin dev coming in here and calling anything a 'scam'?

But anyway, to state that Multipools earn less than mining a single coin is not accurate.  If it was, nobody would mine on them.  See, there's one thing miners are very sensitive to and that's profits.

Miners have a choice in pools, and some are more transparent than others.  You can get a general sense of how profit-switching pools are doing (vs. LTC at least) by using a site like poolpicker.eu, or test yourself.  But if someone wants to throw their hash down a hole and get a payment in BTC who are we to judge.

His statement would also lead someone to possibly scrypt-n which is what spaincoin cough i mean shitcoin is

[grendel25]

Any pool that mines and converts to btc is good for btc because it puts more buy pressure on btc which makes it more scarce and more valuable.  To hell with how well the alt coins do.  Only the strong will survive and raise their status as viable crypto-currency.

[zneww]

Any pool that mines and converts to btc is good for btc because it puts more buy pressure on btc which makes it more scarce and more valuable.  To hell with how well the alt coins do.  Only the strong will survive and raise their status as viable crypto-currency.

couldn't have said it better.

[Minerist]

Yes we will mine promising coins like spaincoin for free instead of making money on multipools. Will go switch rigs, brb!

[precrime3]

Personally the miner in the end of the day has to pay the bills and will do it no matter what JMO. Merged mining should be the way to go, but sadly only few are merge mineable.

[niceman]

It's interesting thread. Especially SpainCoinDev what blames all multipools without any facts. Oh, where is the FACTS?
[advertising ON]
I'm developer and admin of www.CoinMine.pw. CoinMine it's not usual multipool with autosell coins for BTC. I don't want to sell coins, you will get all what you mine. I want to provide best MINING service for my miners. I write my own server and website, and I'm glad what almost all my miners write, what I created best mining pool.
CoinMine is just multicoin mining pool. You can mine coin that you like, as usual pool. You can switch your worker from website interface to any coin (even with API), or you can use auto-switch function and set CoinSet for your worker to mine most profitable from 2-3 coins that you choose.

Now, NEW AGE multipool already done (sure development will not stop and I'll add new futures), and I will start development of NEW AGE exchange service what will be merged with mining pool and provide you best exchange service and trading opportunities was never seen before.
[advertising OFF]

And I want to say: SpainCoinDev is lying, claiming that MULTIPOOLS SCAM and use loud words like FACTS. Especially about 10x profits. It's like CoinWarz show, what I'll get 30 USD/1Mh/daily mining some shitcoin with 0.05 difficulty. This opportunity will stay maximum 1-2 minutes. I have unique switching engine, what always mine best block from about 40 coins and all I can get now is 0.0045 BTC/Mh/day.

The main problem of [some]coins not multipools, Without multipools difficulty will be even lower (less miner will be interesting change pools, sell coins and so on), miners get more coins and sell it even quicker. Main problem what all this coins was created from nothing, by no one and for nothing.

Unfortunately good business product can't be created by "community". It's just impossible. Without strong leader, community will make nothing. So I think some time we will get coin created by real business, for defined purpose and real millions dollars support. And sure this coin will not afraid any multipools.

[damiano]

if you wanted to protect your shitty scam coin from the multipools you should of implemented kgw or dark gravity or better yet gone to x11

[SpainCoinDev]

if you wanted to protect your shitty scam coin from the multipools you should of implemented kgw or dark gravity or better yet gone to x11

We had KGW, smartass. It's hardly enough by itself. The coin would have been killed completely in a few more days if I hadn't switched algo on the fly (we've been the first coin to do so).

And for the coinmine.pw guy: you're talking about the present, when no coin is profitable anymore and all scrypt coins except ltc & doge have been killed already by multipools. I'ts been very lucrative for multipools in the past 3 months. Sorry you're late, it sucks, right? You can only keep beating the dead scrypt zombies now I guess.

[thesmith]

I can't speak for other pools, but http://coinfu.io doesn't try to exploit the system by switching pools when a reward is due (however we do think this is a poor coin design). We also have implemented hashrate spreading to limit the hashrate going into a single coin. We try to mine multiple coins at a time if possible. Not only does it defeat the purpose of the multipool by crushing a small coin with a large hashrate, but the pool could potentially start orphaning it's own coins.

[death_hawk]

This thread is hilarious.

We've been very clear about it. Multipools make very healthy profits. Multipools don't give said profits to their miners.

I don't know where you mine, but I make more money via Multipools than mining direct.

[SpainCoinDev]

Yeah, hilarious. What do you mine, Litecoin?

[precrime3]

Yeah, hilarious. What do you mine, Litecoin?

Hey what you got against Litecoin? ITs the most profitable no..... xD Litecoin is a legitimate option nonetheless if you have rigs on rigs and just want to mine something YOU KNOW will be relevant couple months down the road.... But besides that multipools are the way to go for miners, or mining very new coins.

[death_hawk]

Yeah, hilarious. What do you mine, Litecoin?

No, I mine at a multipool.
And it produces acceptable profits.

Could I get more by doing the work by hand? Sure. But my time is worth more than that.
Could my pool be stealing some of my profits? Sure. But again I'm making more than mining direct.

[jparsley]

Coin devs should work to handle diff issues like doge

[suchmoon]

This thread here is a perfect example of why there are so many useless shitcoins. Some disgruntled dev with no clue about how to create a viable coin brings up a straw man to blame for that. It's natural fucking selection. Adapt or die. If it weren't for multipools then coins would die for a number of other reasons. There is just no economy to support 99% of them.

[kalus]

TL;DR...

This thread here is a perfect example of why there are so many useless shitcoins. Some disgruntled dev with no clue about how to create a viable coin brings up a straw man to blame for that. It's natural fucking selection. Adapt or die. If it weren't for multipools then coins would die for a number of other reasons. There is just no economy to support 99% of them.

good summary of the thread, and realistic outlook of the market. thanks.

[SpainCoinDev]

Yeah, RIGHT. Also, we're not talking about economy here, you're just mixing it all up.

[kalus]

Also, we're not talking about economy here, you're just mixing it all up.

coins don't exist in a vacuum.  value isn't created ex nihilo.  Learn where a coin's worth comes from.

suchmoon is correct in that at least 99% of the coins that exist are over-valued. 

[SpainCoinDev]

Also, we're not talking about economy here, you're just mixing it all up.

coins don't exist in a vacuum.  value isn't created ex nihilo.  Learn where a coin's worth comes from.

suchmoon is correct in that at least 99% of the coins that exist are over-valued. 

Of course they are, their valuations are distorted by the mining subsidy, liquidity issues, traders creating bubbles and so on, but that's off-topic.

This is about multipools, their lack of transparency, how they can screw up coins, how they fool miners and so on.

[suchmoon]

This is about multipools, their lack of transparency, how they can screw up coins, how they fool miners and so on.

And that is different from shitcoin "developers" how exactly?

[kalus]

how they fool miners

Miners join multipools to make money.  the multipool that is most profitable rewards users with the highest returns per megahash.

how are they fooling miners? miners vote with their hashrates, and most payouts are daily.   there is no fooling anyone:  if the profits dry up, miners move on.  

you can have your suspicions, but when there are several independent projects that track multipool profitability there is little room to hide profits or to 'fool miners'.  

I question why any small coin developer would even bother making PoW coins when the blockchain cannot be secured. 

[SpainCoinDev]

Boring. read the op

[kalus]

Boring. read the op

tl;dr.   what you're saying is, no miners are being fooled.  some miners can do math, and figure out how to make more money, that's all. 

stop making shitcoins, nationcoins, and PoW coins until you know what the fuck you're doing.  you're literally blaming miners for mining PoW coins.  

[GenTarkin]

Truth be told, the only reason all these alt coins exist is to be gamed. Mining, trading ... pick your gaming poison. End of story.
As coins die, some random fuck will copy n paste a new coin to be speculatively traded / mined.
As long as people still buy the random-meaningless-shit coins on exchanges, multipools will exist and work.

[STT]

Luddism is alive and well, that is fear of technology replacing workers.   While work can become redundant, if it is easily replicated for less effort, an improvement has been made to the market and this benefits society as whole.   This general rule applies even to the crazy world of crypto and has been in play since at least the times of workers smashing sewing machines for making clothes too well