Is lying or cheating in support of stealing an election okay?

[suchmoon]

Totally not cool to lie and cheat and try to steal an election. Time for the loser to concede and start working on transferring government functions to the winner instead of obstructing the will of the people and discrediting the election process.

[Spendulus]

Totally not cool to lie and cheat and try to steal an election. Time for the loser to concede and start working on transferring government functions to the winner instead of obstructing the will of the people and discrediting the election process.

Hmm, so WHEN SHOULD Al Gore have finally conceded?

Was it totally uncool for him to demand recounts in FL or is it just totally uncool when a Repub does such a thing or of course, just when Trump does it?

[yazher]

First of all, there are things you need to consider whether you do it for the sake of the country or just for yourself. Also if you think doing so will result in a good thing to happened or you are not sure about the outcome of it. Either way, if it's for the sake of the country because we already witnessed how Trump runs his government. why not gamble for Biden? maybe he can do the contrary and make America great again. if not, at least you've made some contribution to try to change the era of foolishness which Trump did when he was in power. 

[Spendulus]

First of all, there are things you need to consider whether you do it for the sake of the country or just for yourself. Also if you think doing so will result in a good thing to happened or you are not sure about the outcome of it. Either way, if it's for the sake of the country because we already witnessed how Trump runs his government. why not gamble for Biden? maybe he can do the contrary and make America great again. if not, at least you've made some contribution to try to change the era of foolishness which Trump did when he was in power. 

I'm not really sure what you are saying.

Is it like, lying or cheating is okay if it is for a greater good, or something perceived as that?

Certainly we could say that some perceive lying or cheating as acceptable if it benefits them personally, as that is pretty much a definition of crime.

[suchmoon]

Hmm, so WHEN SHOULD Al Gore have finally conceded?

Was it totally uncool for him to demand recounts in FL or is it just totally uncool when a Repub does such a thing or of course, just when Trump does it?

Which of the states in 2020 has a margin at least within an order of magnitude of Florida 2000 so that your lame attempt at whataboutism would make an iota of sense? And how many of these states would Trump need to flip in order to win? Can he try a recount in California? Should Biden try a recount in Texas? Where does this nonsense stop?

[squatz1]

No, it's not okay under any circumstances. We just need proof. I can't go around pointing to election fraud and have nothing when someone asks me for proof of actual ballots that were submitted fraudulently.

+1 to that.

Lying or cheating to steal an election is not okay at all.

Lying on a campaign trail is pretty common, but the result of this isn't 'stealing an election' Cheating on a campaign trail, well that's up to people other then myself to decide what 'cheating' is.

But yeah, for all of this 'widespread election fraud' we're going to need some proof to back it. Right now it just sounds like a ton of baseless conspiracy theories.

[Saltius]

It is damn so good as US has rigged elections of other countries multiple times.
US and its people deserve it.

This reminds me of the time when Rome was taken and sacked by its own legions in 88BCE.

[Mauser]

Just curious what the attitudes were on this subject.

This is self moderated; vote based on your beliefs, prejudices, hates, whatever.

Please don't post more endless trump hate, just vote.

I don't think the president should be lying as part of an election. There might be a few reasons where the president should lie, to protect his people or as part of some though negotiations maybe. But if we would all be okay to accept lies just to get into the office, than the hole election campaign becomes skewed. We wouldn't know what to believe anymore, which of statements are going to be true and which are false.

[Tash]

If lying and cheating is ok then why waste time and money on voting at all.
To prevent such things happeing the US postal service patent the use of blockchain in compination with mail to provide a reliable voting system.
Pub. date: Aug 13, 2020

[Spendulus]

Hmm, so WHEN SHOULD Al Gore have finally conceded?

Was it totally uncool for him to demand recounts in FL or is it just totally uncool when a Repub does such a thing or of course, just when Trump does it?

Which of the states in 2020 has a margin at least within an order of magnitude of Florida 2000 so that your lame attempt at whataboutism would make an iota of sense? And how many of these states would Trump need to flip in order to win? Can he try a recount in California? Should Biden try a recount in Texas? Where does this nonsense stop?

....But what Trump is doing (and has been doing) is undermining the legitimacy of his own office by carrying on with this childish tantrum.....

I see your point but would classify it under "totally uncool just when Trump does it."

But that's coming after four years of non stop scheming, lying, contriving false collusions by the Left, so they shouldn't expect Trumpers to be "reasonable" according to their edicts.

You'll just have to be content with the use by Trump of the legal processes entitled to him to examine whatever he wants to examine. Meanwhile, I'm certainly pleased with the general direction of the results of my poll!

[Renampun]

...

I do see it that way, but suspect many do not. After all, a strong minority really hate Trump, and they may feel that cheating and lying is okay to get him out.

Just look at the sorts of things they say.

I'm not really sure about this scenario but it might be...
It is true that the minority in the US is very vocal and frontal to drop the trump at all costs however those who are pro and not, should accept the final result regardless of whether it was cheating that made one of the candidates win. hope the truth is revealed and the winner is the chosen one fairly & honestly.

[squatz1]

Hmm, so WHEN SHOULD Al Gore have finally conceded?

Was it totally uncool for him to demand recounts in FL or is it just totally uncool when a Repub does such a thing or of course, just when Trump does it?

Which of the states in 2020 has a margin at least within an order of magnitude of Florida 2000 so that your lame attempt at whataboutism would make an iota of sense? And how many of these states would Trump need to flip in order to win? Can he try a recount in California? Should Biden try a recount in Texas? Where does this nonsense stop?

Yeah......

Even for the vote in Wisconsin, which is within 10-15k votes or so -- that's not even close enough, historically, for a recount to even do anything. In 2016 the recount only changed the fate of a few hundred ballots, not even close to the 10-15K that Trump would need to go FULLY to him.

Not going to happen. Unless you personally subscribe to the theory of -- WELL THERE WERE TONS OF VOTER FRAUD SO THAT MEANS TONS OF BALLOTS ARE GOING TO BE TOSSED -- I really doubt that. But I guess we'll see what the next few weeks of legal battles do. Doesn't seem like it'll be much though.

[BADecker]

Since the election fraud has been going on for decades, we really need to get rid of the US Government, because it hasn't been the one we attempted to elect for a long time now.

[Spendulus]

....Unless you personally subscribe to the theory of -- WELL THERE WERE TONS OF VOTER FRAUD SO THAT MEANS TONS OF BALLOTS ARE GOING TO BE TOSSED -- I really doubt that. But I guess we'll see what the next few weeks of legal battles do. Doesn't seem like it'll be much though.

Nobody has to subscribe to a theory. It's the candidate's right to ask a state to prove its count and its results. It's the state's requirement to actually do that, or us spectators get to watch corrupt officials in that state try to squirm by with fishy excuses. Then we get to watch a SC case, the details of which nobody knows right now.

Doesn't matter what you doubt or opine either. Or me.

We're spectators.

[BADecker]

Of course that's not enough. Rather, it's only the beginning. By the time SCOTUS finishes, there'll be so many Trump votes found, that Trump will be shown to have won by the biggest landslide in the last 150 years.


Caught big time - Election data log files exposed repeated, criminal vote theft - they are busted

This is it, folks. The log files of the voting "transactions" have now been analyzed and they show over 500,000 votes removed from Trump and given to Biden, almost entirely in swing states like PA, WI, MI, etc.

This is the smoking gun evidence, and it was all done by the CIA using the Dominion software system that allows for remote, real-time theft of elections (which is why all the swing states simultaneously shut down their vote counting, so they could rig it from that point forward).

All the evidence is now coming out. The Dems are finished. Hundreds or thousands will go to prison. Many will begin to flee the country now.


Emergency Update - Nov. 11th - SCOTUS will nullify the election, Congress will decide - https://www.brighteon.com/64a46d81-3e4a-4945-b914-db215bf14d31


Watch In the Blink of an Eye: CNN's 'Magic Board' Subtracts 20,000 Trump Votes and Adds Them to Biden's Tally in Pennsylvania - https://www.brighteon.com/0ad42991-54da-4de8-9dc0-9f1e17627ccf


Giuliani breaks down evidence that could secure election for Trump - https://www.brighteon.com/6f6786df-a104-4398-bed0-6c06e9c50e2b


Cyber coup: Investigation underway -- Dominion Voting Systems (with ties to high level Democrats) repeatedly glitched in favor of Biden - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-dominion-voting-systems-glitched-in-bidens-favor.html


System "glitch" in Wisconsin swapped Trump votes with Biden's, giving Biden a spontaneous "win" - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-glitch-wisconsin-swapped-trump-votes-biden.html


Did Pfizer and the FDA conspire to withhold vaccine "good news" until after the election, playing politics with the pandemic to harm Trump? - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-pfizer-fda-withhold-vaccine-info-after-election.html


CNN accidentally broadcast vote fraud as it happened live - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-accidentally-broadcast-vote-fraud-live.html


Sidney Powell says nationwide election audit needed to expose widespread vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-sidney-powell-nationwide-election-audit-vote-fraud.html


Thug Democrats who run Michigan threaten legal action against Big League Politics over #DetroitLeaks exclusive showing vote fraud training - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-michigan-democrats-threaten-big-league-politics-detroit-leaks-exclusive.html


Michigan poll workers created fake names so people could vote twice - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-michigan-poll-workers-fake-names-vote-twice.html


Giuliani reveals that dead people voted for Biden in Philadelphia - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-giuliani-says-dead-people-voted-biden-philadelphia.html


Bill Barr finally authorizes DOJ to start investigating "substantial allegations" of vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-barr-authorizes-doj-substantial-allegations-vote-fraud.html


Recount contested states or prepare for war: Win or lose, half of America will not trust election results without complete transparency - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-recount-contested-states-or-prepare-for-war.html


CNN's Jake Tapper threatens Trump staffers to concede or get blacklisted - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-jake-tapper-threatens-trump-concede-blacklisted.html

[Spendulus]

....
Even for the vote in Wisconsin, which is within 10-15k votes or so -- that's not even close enough, historically, for a recount to even do anything. In 2016 the recount only changed the fate of a few hundred ballots, not even close to the 10-15K that Trump would need to go FULLY to him.

Not going to happen. Unless you personally subscribe to the theory of -- WELL THERE WERE TONS OF VOTER FRAUD SO THAT MEANS TONS OF BALLOTS ARE GOING TO BE TOSSED -- I really doubt that. But I guess we'll see what the next few weeks of legal battles do. Doesn't seem like it'll be much though.

May be of interest, this is an article drawing from the expertise of DEFCON attendees (a large hacker convention). They always have a hall on hacking voting machines.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/11/02/computer-experts-sound-warnings-safety-americas-voting-machines/6087174002/

DEF CON, an annual hackers’ conference, has regularly packed a “Voting Village” with older election systems and invited people of all skill sets — including children — to poke for vulnerabilities. The very first machine to be hacked in the Voting Village launch was a DRE. It took minutes.

[Viper1]

Really don't understand this poll. If you're stealing an election then you're going to lie, cheat and steal to do it. It also presupposes, assuming this is all about the current election, that it's being stolen or attempting to be stolen by one of the parties and I don't see any clear evidence of that. The real question is whether or not there's ever any justification for "stealing" an election.

[Cnut237]

It's never okay to lie or cheat to steal an election. If you're going to do that, then why bother having an election in the first place?

Even before voting started, Trump's two possible outcomes were:
a) I won.
b) I won but was cheated by the other guy.

There was never going to be an 'I lost' outcome.

In this instance, the 'fraud' was a pre-determined excuse. If he lost, Trump was always going to challenge the results, no matter whether they were close or not (they're not close). There was never any way that he would accept that he had lost, no margin clear enough. Even 90% to 10%, he'd cry fraud.

And he still hasn't supplied any evidence.

[Bitcoin577]

It's never okay to lie or cheat to steal an election. If you're going to do that, then why bother having an election in the first place?

Even before voting started, Trump's two possible outcomes were:
a) I won.
b) I won but was cheated by the other guy.

There was never going to be an 'I lost' outcome.

In this instance, the 'fraud' was a pre-determined excuse. If he lost, Trump was always going to challenge the results, no matter whether they were close or not (they're not close). There was never any way that he would accept that he had lost, no margin clear enough. Even 90% to 10%, he'd cry fraud.

And he still hasn't supplied any evidence.

Lie or cheat is never been okay to steal any election in any place so really its now time for trump to accept this all and give up because he has not solid evidence to supply on any forum about his lost.

[Cnut237]

DEF CON, an annual hackers’ conference, has regularly packed a “Voting Village” with older election systems and invited people of all skill sets — including children — to poke for vulnerabilities. The very first machine to be hacked in the Voting Village launch was a DRE. It took minutes.

This isn't really relevant. Remember that Trump claimed in 2016 that although he won the election, 'fraud' had robbed him of winning the popular vote. The commission he set up to investigate his own lies the 'fraud' found zero evidence of fraud. My favourite quote from the linked article, which sums up the situation quite eloquently: "The plural of anecdote is not data".

He claimed fraud in 2016, and couldn't find any evidence despite being the most powerful man in the world, with all doors open to him.
Now he claims fraud again, without supplying any evidence. His attempted subversion of democracy didn't work last time, and won't work this time. The idea of someone who has been POTUS for four years positioning himself as a valiant outsider fighting against a corrupt system is absurd.

Evidence or didn't happen.