Buying property with crypto

[wtfmidn]

I've just joined the forum earlier tonight (UK), so hello to everyone.

I'm not rich but have sufficient bitcoin/crypto to be wondering about the possibility of buying a modest house/property/land if crypto continues to rise next year and property prices collapse significantly. So I was wondering about the potential to buy property with crypto, not just here in the UK (preferably), but globally?

Property prices are currently high and (crazily) going higher (here), but if the anticipated collapse happens next year I want to know my options, especially if crypto goes to new ATH during that period, as I hope/anticipate. Can you buy a house with crypto, or do I need to convert to fiat (£ etc.) before I do so? What are the tax repercussions, even if I can? Etc..

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

[1714162857]

1714162857

[1714162857]

1714162857

[jackg]

There are rumours the government may double cgt in the UK. At the moment:

If you make more than your personal allowance in income - you have to pay 20% cgt
if you make less than that in income you have to pay 10%

(I think it's based off income but not 100% sure).

You buying a house with bitcoin will depend on a buyer being willing to accept it. Its happened before afaik but might an unlikely goal to secure any property you want with it.

If you pick a solicitor right you can probably use bitcoin as a proof of funds but sales also take 6 weeks to go through so you likely won't get an optimal price to pay keeping your funds in bitcoin during that time (and bitcoin is less reversable and less traceable than fiat do there's a risk there too). 

Just try to keep enoughg % aside to cover the taxes.

[wtfmidn]

There are rumours the government may double cgt in the UK. At the moment:

If you make more than your personal allowance in income - you have to pay 20% cgt
if you make less than that in income you have to pay 10%

(I think it's based off income but not 100% sure).

You buying a house with bitcoin will depend on a buyer being willing to accept it. Its happened before afaik but might an unlikely goal to secure any property you want with it.

If you pick a solicitor right you can probably use bitcoin as a proof of funds but sales also take 6 weeks to go through so you likely won't get an optimal price to pay keeping your funds in bitcoin during that time (and bitcoin is less reversable and less traceable than fiat do there's a risk there too). 

Just try to keep enoughg % aside to cover the taxes.

Thanks for the response. Yes, I heard that rumour about CGT in the UK.

What I really want to know I suppose is IF a seller in the UK was willing to accept bitcoin/crypto as a currency for their property, would the UK government allow it and [then] how would the tax journey pan-out in comparison to the £? I mean, if somebody in the UK (or anywhere, I guess) accepts X amount of bitcoin for their property, does it save me any money in the long-run by paying for it with bitcoin when the tax man is George Orwell's nightmare vision for the 1980's?

The bottom-line, I suppose, is am I able to purchase property with cryptocurrency and how much money if any can I save by doing so?

[Lucius]

wtfmidn, it is definitely possible to buy real estate in the UK with Bitcoin, and as far as I know there are no legal obstacles to this. What you need to do of course is pay property tax (if required by law), and of course that you can prove the origin of the Bitcoin you own. What I would especially warn you to be extremely careful with this way of buying is because fraudsters are everywhere and it is very easy to make a website and sell properties that are not yours for crypto.

As far as I can see there are several real estate agencies from the UK that mediate between sellers/buyers who want to sell/buy by paying with BTC.

Currently, in the UK and Northern Ireland, a handful of estate agents currently accept Bitcoin in principle, or have measures to broker a cryptocurrency deal. These include Go Homes, The Collective, Agape Properties, Hagan Homes and Munday’s Estate Agents. Aggregator Rightmove accepts property listings on Bitcoin in principle.

[zasad@]

I have heard that in European countries there are very high taxes on real estate. If you are planning to purchase real estate for business (renting out), then this can turn into grief due to the COVID-19.
If you are interested in buying real estate in Russia, then there are very daunting real estate taxes and Russian citizens and foreigners pay the same tax rates.
And there will be no problems with the exchange of bitcoins for rubles.

[Findingnemo]

It seems the tax rates for crypto purchase are high there si better convert it into fiat to avoid paying extra tax amount

There are some articles available in the google search but better visit them by yourself to get clear idea about buying a property with bitcoin but there is no restriction on bitcoin to buy anything so you are good to go.

[sheenshane]

@Lucius was right and I tend to agree with that reply, in the UK it's possible nowadays to purchase a property using Bitcoin but what I'm not really sure is how you will deal with the taxes along the way. I haven't heard any news or information about how the UK government collect tax for cryptocurrency transaction with regards to real estate.

I suggest for you to check it first with The Financial Reporting Council in order to have full knowledge about your plan and of course not to be scammed as well since this is barely new and scammers are always at large that could take advantage of the situation.

[jackg]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I heard that rumour about CGT in the UK.

What I really want to know I suppose is IF a seller in the UK was willing to accept bitcoin/crypto as a currency for their property, would the UK government allow it and [then] how would the tax journey pan-out in comparison to the £? I mean, if somebody in the UK (or anywhere, I guess) accepts X amount of bitcoin for their property, does it save me any money in the long-run by paying for it with bitcoin when the tax man is George Orwell's nightmare vision for the 1980's?

The bottom-line, I suppose, is am I able to purchase property with cryptocurrency and how much money if any can I save by doing so?

Yeah you can use bitcoin just as you can fiat in the UK and wider Europe (the EU class it as a currency and I think the UK will continue to do that after/if we leave).

You'll probably have to go through similar aml regs and might need to prove how you got the funds but if you've got exchange transactions or something that'll probably be enough.

I don't know how it'd save money though?. Unless you're trying to speculate on an increase in market value.

[Theb]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I heard that rumour about CGT in the UK.

What I really want to know I suppose is IF a seller in the UK was willing to accept bitcoin/crypto as a currency for their property, would the UK government allow it and [then] how would the tax journey pan-out in comparison to the £? I mean, if somebody in the UK (or anywhere, I guess) accepts X amount of bitcoin for their property, does it save me any money in the long-run by paying for it with bitcoin when the tax man is George Orwell's nightmare vision for the 1980's?

The bottom-line, I suppose, is am I able to purchase property with cryptocurrency and how much money if any can I save by doing so?

If you are looking at saving or maximizing your Bitcoin when it comes to buying real estate it will always depend if you are able to find a direct seller of the house and not go through any real estate agents out there because if you go to them expect that there is an added premium when it comes to purchasing those houses. Trying to find a direct seller I think is one of the hardest parts out there especially if you are looking for a seller who will accept Bitcoin directly since most of them will be looking for the most liquid asset and that is cash. However this is still not the end since you still have the option to liquidate your Bitcoin into cash and try and compare if you will save more money as compared to buying the houses from one of real estate agents you have.

On a side not I think Go Homes Family in UK is one of the well known real estate developers out there that is known for accepting Bitcoin directly from their buyers.

[fuzebase]

I've just joined the forum earlier tonight (UK), so hello to everyone.

I'm not rich but have sufficient bitcoin/crypto to be wondering about the possibility of buying a modest house/property/land if crypto continues to rise next year and property prices collapse significantly. So I was wondering about the potential to buy property with crypto, not just here in the UK (preferably), but globally?

Property prices are currently high and (crazily) going higher (here), but if the anticipated collapse happens next year I want to know my options, especially if crypto goes to new ATH during that period, as I hope/anticipate. Can you buy a house with crypto, or do I need to convert to fiat (£ etc.) before I do so? What are the tax repercussions, even if I can? Etc..

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

We can help you buy beach , houses , business with bitcoin in the caribbean. We have many apartments with front beach and also hotel for sale . Most owners are from UK , Russia, spain ,Italy and they accept Bitcoin,Ethereum USDT . Property title take usualy 30 to 45 days to transfer to the new owner .

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

We’ve got an ongoing (*) case study on the Spanish local board (see Me he comprado un piso con bitcoin). A person from that board recently bought a flat in Spain, and paid using Bitcoin a sum that is equivalent to just 100K€. All legally backed, notary to testify and so forth, but … the amount that was actually paid in BTC was written down in the deeds as cash, rather than BTC.

It therefore seems slightly on the hush-hush side when Bitcoin comes into the equation, and the notary hinted (without detailing) that payments stated in BTC are rather troublesome. The flat was cheapish, and cash can still be used between individuals for large sums (as opposed to when one side is a company), although above 100K would have triggered further burocracy.

(*) I call this an ongoing case, since come 2021, the buyer will have to deal with her income/tax reports, and the 100K equivalent noted in the purchase as cash (which was really BTC) may bring surprises.

[gentlemand]

As ever someone actually asking for crypto for their property will either be asking a stupid price for the honor of paying in it, or it's a dump. Most of the places have been dumps. People actively accepting it for properties are still outliers in the extreme.  

You're certainly not going to save any money. What you would be doing is cutting out all of the worry about selling a large amount and exchanges and banks having kittens which is something I'd very much like to avoid. You'll still have to pay your CGT.

You'll have to be proactive. Find somewhere you like and then, unless you miraculously turn that old lady seller into a Bitcoin fan over an afternoon, call somewhere like Bitpay who facilitate large buys as well as retail things. You pay Bitpay. They pay the seller. And it's job jobbed. You'll have to hit the seller until they agree as most people will be pussies about this.

[usekevin]

I've just joined the forum earlier tonight (UK), so hello to everyone.

I'm not rich but have sufficient bitcoin/crypto to be wondering about the possibility of buying a modest house/property/land if crypto continues to rise next year and property prices collapse significantly. So I was wondering about the potential to buy property with crypto, not just here in the UK (preferably), but globally?

Property prices are currently high and (crazily) going higher (here), but if the anticipated collapse happens next year I want to know my options, especially if crypto goes to new ATH during that period, as I hope/anticipate. Can you buy a house with crypto, or do I need to convert to fiat (£ etc.) before I do so? What are the tax repercussions, even if I can? Etc..

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

Welcome to the forum.Next year, you can find a huge fall in the price of property. If the luck favors you, you may have a chance to buy a property. Buying property is easy with your hardwork and maintain it will be the tough task. The price of bitcoin had reduced again, so it will be good chance to buy again with less price.You can sell those next year and can buy property with it.

[hugeblack]

The problem will become in taking legal measures. Many countries and courts consider Bitcoin a commodity and not recognized money, and therefore the commodity must be evaluated, and then a high-income tax is imposed on it.

If you succeed in finding someone who accepts crypto as a method of payment, it will be easier, but for a third party to enter to perform the transfer process, it will be complicated and cost you more money, indicate the source of the money and pay taxes on it.

[YOSHIE]

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

You are too hopeful / delusional, which human will know the fate of someone in the next year, no, your prediction could be crazy if not achieved based on the forecast.

If you start and invest in a 1-2 year term that's good, in the crypto world you can't just think positive, negative effects must also be considered.
If I had Bitcoin assets or fiat money, I would halve it.
1. Investing in Bitcoin.
2. Business with fiat money deposits.
most likely, I can still buy property [1], with fiat from business, [2], Bitcoin / crypto if in 1-2 years it goes up.
Negative effect if next year Bitcoin goes down what can you do, nothing, however, business profits can be counted on for property, depending on the business you open.

Two things to watch out for in bitcoin the price goes up & down, if it goes up it doesn't matter all your dreams are achieved, on the contrary, you will cry.

[gentlemand]

Two things to watch out for in bitcoin the price goes up & down, if it goes up it doesn't matter all your dreams are achieved, on the contrary, you will cry.

Sheesh. Think positive.

Anyway OP may well be in a similar situation to people who have been around for a while. They have enough, and have had enough, to do something like this in a dull market. Some will have still had enough for a big purchase when it was at the absolute bottom. Obviously it's better for them if it's exploding.

[Lorence.xD]

The problem will become in taking legal measures. Many countries and courts consider Bitcoin a commodity and not recognized money, and therefore the commodity must be evaluated, and then a high-income tax is imposed on it.

If you succeed in finding someone who accepts crypto as a method of payment, it will be easier, but for a third party to enter to perform the transfer process, it will be complicated and cost you more money, indicate the source of the money and pay taxes on it.

Looking for this reply, because I want someone that thinks about the same problem that I saw about this dilemma. I do not have that much knowledge about property laws but I think that cryptocurrency is not covered in those laws, I think that fiat is the most viable method because you will be taxed for the property. You can exchange your crypto to fiat if you want because right now, there isn't a lot of real estate that have a mode of payment that is crypto friendly which they have no control of because the government has to back it up too.

[gentlemand]

Looking for this reply, because I want someone that thinks about the same problem that I saw about this dilemma. I do not have that much knowledge about property laws but I think that cryptocurrency is not covered in those laws, I think that fiat is the most viable method because you will be taxed for the property. You can exchange your crypto to fiat if you want because right now, there isn't a lot of real estate that have a mode of payment that is crypto friendly which they have no control of because the government has to back it up too.

You can pay for a house with amputated limbs if the seller will accept them. It's entirely between you and them. The form of payment is none of the government's business. The taxman would still try to find a way to tax your amputated limbs somehow. They don't like barter very much. Crypto is defined enough in most places for it never to get away with that.

Most places will still have a transaction tax of some sort which is a separate payment between you and the government.

[ololajulo]

Some projects are coming up with idea especially from Europe but am concern with the timing both for the project and investors. Investment today in real estate wont give the ROI this time next year with the bull market in sight. The choices and the decision of investment is coming up everytime with most traders I ran into lately, as a plan towards the bear market. They should give option for both investment with cryptocurrency and fiat

[countryfree]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

[cheezcarls]

In the Philippines, there’s a city in the Visayas group of islands (Iloilo City a.k.a The City of Love) where a real estate firm is accepting Bitcoin for payments in buying properties. That’s what I’ve remembered coming from a beautiful friend of mine who is now focusing on her real estate career. Philippines is currently a crypto-friendly country, and massive adoption is still a long way to go.

[tabas]

In the Philippines, there’s a city in the Visayas group of islands (Iloilo City a.k.a The City of Love) where a real estate firm is accepting Bitcoin for payments in buying properties. That’s what I’ve remembered coming from a beautiful friend of mine who is now focusing on her real estate career. Philippines is currently a crypto-friendly country, and massive adoption is still a long way to go.

How many successful real estate purchase they've made through bitcoin? that's a good business if they've been doing that when the price of bitcoin is still under $20k.
Are they selling those bitcoins quickly once they've received the payment from the buyer? or they keep it? such an interesting question because we're just seeing another all time high.

[dansus021]

I've just joined the forum earlier tonight (UK), so hello to everyone.

I'm not rich but have sufficient bitcoin/crypto to be wondering about the possibility of buying a modest house/property/land if crypto continues to rise next year and property prices collapse significantly. So I was wondering about the potential to buy property with crypto, not just here in the UK (preferably), but globally?

Property prices are currently high and (crazily) going higher (here), but if the anticipated collapse happens next year I want to know my options, especially if crypto goes to new ATH during that period, as I hope/anticipate. Can you buy a house with crypto, or do I need to convert to fiat (£ etc.) before I do so? What are the tax repercussions, even if I can? Etc..

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

first of all there's possibilities to buy a modest house/property/land but it depend on owner, are the owner accept the crypto as payment and modest house/property/land go straight to using deed for land form. and second one regulation some country allow crypto as asset not payment system like in my country. maybe in the next few year some property agent will start using crypto as payment system

[stomachgrowls]

I've just joined the forum earlier tonight (UK), so hello to everyone.

I'm not rich but have sufficient bitcoin/crypto to be wondering about the possibility of buying a modest house/property/land if crypto continues to rise next year and property prices collapse significantly. So I was wondering about the potential to buy property with crypto, not just here in the UK (preferably), but globally?

Property prices are currently high and (crazily) going higher (here), but if the anticipated collapse happens next year I want to know my options, especially if crypto goes to new ATH during that period, as I hope/anticipate. Can you buy a house with crypto, or do I need to convert to fiat (£ etc.) before I do so? What are the tax repercussions, even if I can? Etc..

Any advice/thoughts welcomed, lest I skewer myself next year. Enjoy your weekend.

Dont know if these sites were real but its stated that you can purchase up house or real estate with crypto.

https://bitcoin-realestate.com/
https://cryptoemporium.eu/category/property/

Check these companies too:
https://builtin.com/blockchain/blockchain-real-estate-companies

[aioc]

Developers always opted for fiat, you are lucky if you find some company that is accepting Cryptocurrency, because of the volatility of the market, the price of the property changes from time to time, because we all know developers they always value it at the highest possible price depending on the zoning, it's better to follow the market and sell your Crypto on profit and buy the property that you like, it's advantageous both from buyer and seller that the price is not within the volatility of the market.

[zasad@]

Is it really possible to buy real estate for cryptos? I have some money in Bitcoin and am willing to invest it into real estate

If your country does not have a clear cryptocurrency legislation with good practice, then it is better to buy real estate for fiat.
Another question is the tax legislation of your country and how the control procedure takes place when a citizen has a large amount of money in his account or when you buy expensive real estate.
For example, in my country, all data on purchases of apartments or cars goes to the tax office. If the purchase is more than $40,000, then the IRS checks my official income and paid taxes. If I paid little taxes, but bought an expensive apartment, then I bring several loan agreements or donations of money from close relatives that I took money from them to buy an apartment or car.
While this method works in my country, how do you confirm your income in your country or do you have no control?

[Becassine]

Interesting topic if ever there was one, even if it is from 2020.
 
With anti-money laundering laws and capital gains taxes, it is essential to consult a tax lawyer. Real estate purchases in bitcoins vary not only by country, but also over time. In 2014, a property had been sold in the US for example (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lake-tahoe-property-sells-for-1-6-million-in-bitcoins-1407534997)

There are real estate agencies that specialize in selling, buying and renting crypto property, like here in Switzerland (https://bithome.ch/service-buy-sell-real-estate-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/)

Sites like these (https://cryptorealestate.cc/) are downright dreamy, those lucky enough to have bitcoins from the 2010s, can buy just about anything.

It's a safe bet that anyway, a big bitcoin holder will pay a big capital gains tax.

An interesting article  : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/can-you-buy-a-house-with-bitcoin

[zasad@]

Interesting topic if ever there was one, even if it is from 2020.
 
With anti-money laundering laws and capital gains taxes, it is essential to consult a tax lawyer. Real estate purchases in bitcoins vary not only by country, but also over time. In 2014, a property had been sold in the US for example (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lake-tahoe-property-sells-for-1-6-million-in-bitcoins-1407534997)

There are real estate agencies that specialize in selling, buying and renting crypto property, like here in Switzerland (https://bithome.ch/service-buy-sell-real-estate-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/)

Sites like these (https://cryptorealestate.cc/) are downright dreamy, those lucky enough to have bitcoins from the 2010s, can buy just about anything.

It's a safe bet that anyway, a big bitcoin holder will pay a big capital gains tax.

An interesting article  : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/can-you-buy-a-house-with-bitcoin

I think now the problem is what is your legal income and can you confirm it. In many countries, real estate purchases are controlled by tax authorities because it is very easy. Only in some countries they ask you about income and taxes, and in other countries they don’t ask you yet. But the key word is "yet". Your most vivid emotions will be when the tax office asks for your tax returns, and you have nothing to provide.

[virasog]

Interesting topic if ever there was one, even if it is from 2020.
 
With anti-money laundering laws and capital gains taxes, it is essential to consult a tax lawyer. Real estate purchases in bitcoins vary not only by country, but also over time. In 2014, a property had been sold in the US for example (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lake-tahoe-property-sells-for-1-6-million-in-bitcoins-1407534997)

There are real estate agencies that specialize in selling, buying and renting crypto property, like here in Switzerland (https://bithome.ch/service-buy-sell-real-estate-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/)

Sites like these (https://cryptorealestate.cc/) are downright dreamy, those lucky enough to have bitcoins from the 2010s, can buy just about anything.

It's a safe bet that anyway, a big bitcoin holder will pay a big capital gains tax.

An interesting article  : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/can-you-buy-a-house-with-bitcoin

I think now the problem is what is your legal income and can you confirm it. In many countries, real estate purchases are controlled by tax authorities because it is very easy. Only in some countries they ask you about income and taxes, and in other countries they don’t ask you yet. But the key word is "yet". Your most vivid emotions will be when the tax office asks for your tax returns, and you have nothing to provide.

Well, only the crypto friendly nations citizens can buy and sell property through bitcoin legally. Most of the time when you buy a property, you need to complete its whole documentation so that the government may give you the NOC to buy or sell the property. In this case, you need to show the proof that you actually paid the amount through the banking channel or through cash. So now if you paid using the bitcoins, you will mention it in the legal documents and only the country that accepts bitcoin will recognize this transaction.

[meser#]

I hate to say this, but in my country Turkey shopping using cryptocurrencies is forbidden. I can hear that you are saying: what a nonsense! Yes you are right you can buy even gumble with your cryptos in Turkey. You can buy and sale the crypto currencies but you can't use for shopping You have to cash out firstly

On the other hand, real estate sales/rent prices getting higher and higher day by day. One of the reason is high inflation and this is causing Turkish Lira is getting worthless against other currencies like dollar and euro. Many landlords trying to sale their properties or trying to find new renter. But mostly their dream's customer is foreigner people. And many foreigner buys properties in here due to many reasons. Like citizenship or their salaries in make them richer in here. My personal opinion is don't think about buying properties in Turkey. Come here as a tourist not a landlord

[zasad@]

Interesting topic if ever there was one, even if it is from 2020.
 
With anti-money laundering laws and capital gains taxes, it is essential to consult a tax lawyer. Real estate purchases in bitcoins vary not only by country, but also over time. In 2014, a property had been sold in the US for example (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lake-tahoe-property-sells-for-1-6-million-in-bitcoins-1407534997)

There are real estate agencies that specialize in selling, buying and renting crypto property, like here in Switzerland (https://bithome.ch/service-buy-sell-real-estate-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/)

Sites like these (https://cryptorealestate.cc/) are downright dreamy, those lucky enough to have bitcoins from the 2010s, can buy just about anything.

It's a safe bet that anyway, a big bitcoin holder will pay a big capital gains tax.

An interesting article  : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/can-you-buy-a-house-with-bitcoin

I think now the problem is what is your legal income and can you confirm it. In many countries, real estate purchases are controlled by tax authorities because it is very easy. Only in some countries they ask you about income and taxes, and in other countries they don’t ask you yet. But the key word is "yet". Your most vivid emotions will be when the tax office asks for your tax returns, and you have nothing to provide.

Well, only the crypto friendly nations citizens can buy and sell property through bitcoin legally. Most of the time when you buy a property, you need to complete its whole documentation so that the government may give you the NOC to buy or sell the property. In this case, you need to show the proof that you actually paid the amount through the banking channel or through cash. So now if you paid using the bitcoins, you will mention it in the legal documents and only the country that accepts bitcoin will recognize this transaction.

It is very difficult to find two people, one of whom wants to sell real estate for bitcoins, and the other person wants to pay with bitcoins. But this is ideal. As a rule, a property can have several owners. For the buyer, this limits the huge market because many sellers want fiat.
But this does not save you from tax control.

[Becassine]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Some tax and legal rules are not the same in the European Union and it is absolutely not illegal in France to pay in bitcoins. Nevertheless, you have to prove the origin of the funds and pay taxes and notary fees in Fiat.

In France, there is what is called the dation in payment: originally an heir could pay his debts by transferring works of art for example, in the same way a real estate developer can "exchange" a piece of land or a real estate for an apartment (for example a person sells his house on a piece of land on which the developer will build a building, the developer then offers in addition to transfer an apartment in the said building).

More infos : https://www.nexity.fr/terrains/guide-terrain/conseils-vente/dation-en-paiement-definition

One day the majority of countries will accept bitcoins in the same way as they accept a work of art to pay a tax debt, it is only a matter of time. In some countries you can already pay your taxes with bitcoin.

[crwth]

Reading this now, I hope the OP has an update on his decisions. Did he HODL? Or decided to convert his crypto already with fiat to buy something. This has been 3 years already, and I hope it's good news. Maybe merit worthy once he updates lol.

[zasad@]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Some tax and legal rules are not the same in the European Union and it is absolutely not illegal in France to pay in bitcoins. Nevertheless, you have to prove the origin of the funds and pay taxes and notary fees in Fiat.

In France, there is what is called the dation in payment: originally an heir could pay his debts by transferring works of art for example, in the same way a real estate developer can "exchange" a piece of land or a real estate for an apartment (for example a person sells his house on a piece of land on which the developer will build a building, the developer then offers in addition to transfer an apartment in the said building).

More infos : https://www.nexity.fr/terrains/guide-terrain/conseils-vente/dation-en-paiement-definition

One day the majority of countries will accept bitcoins in the same way as they accept a work of art to pay a tax debt, it is only a matter of time. In some countries you can already pay your taxes with bitcoin.

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

[Fiatless]

<…>

We’ve got an ongoing (*) case study on the Spanish local board (see Me he comprado un piso con bitcoin). A person from that board recently bought a flat in Spain, and paid using Bitcoin a sum that is equivalent to just 100K€. All legally backed, notary to testify and so forth, but … the amount that was actually paid in BTC was written down in the deeds as cash, rather than BTC.

It therefore seems slightly on the hush-hush side when Bitcoin comes into the equation, and the notary hinted (without detailing) that payments stated in BTC are rather troublesome. The flat was cheapish, and cash can still be used between individuals for large sums (as opposed to when one side is a company), although above 100K would have triggered further burocracy.

This is a piece of uncommon news, I am glad to hear it. The buyer was fortunate to have someone that he could pay with Bitcoin. It will save a lot of bank charges and bureaucratic processes. Making such payments using a commercial bank will attract a lot of scrutiny and high bank charges. I like the idea of buying a house with Bitcoin because it will help to promote the privacy of both parties. Some bankers in my country act as agents to criminals. Immediately they observe that a certain customer has transferred such an amount, they can inform their gang which could lead to attacks.

I don't know the legal implication of buying a house with Bitcoin in my country. Banks are restricted from engaging in crypto transactions but bitcoin is still an acceptable means of payment. Stating that the property was bought with bitcoin will be ideal and the transaction details should be included in the payment receipt.

[Becassine]

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

That's the question: if the user has had btc for a long time and even earned them years ago by playing on sites that have disappeared or mined btc, if he bought them and no longer has the bank statements (perhaps he's even changed bank since then and there are no archives), it's not going to be easy, if only to declare the capital gains to the tax authorities. In any case, he'll only be able to recover modest sums in PtoP, otherwise the bank's red lights will be going off all over the place.

It will not be easy anyway.

[Bushdark]

Reading this now, I hope the OP has an update on his decisions. Did he HODL? Or decided to convert his crypto already with fiat to buy something. This has been 3 years already, and I hope it's good news. Maybe merit worthy once he updates lol.

Since this post was created many months ago, op would have made his decision especially now that the market his struggling to break out the support of $30k and wondering down the lower trend. Buying properties with cryptocurrency is a good idea if the bother parties decided to make the transaction with the need for bank coming in between the transaction. Although there could be some challenges but the but parties must be ready to agree on who's going to pay for the network fee or it will be shared between them since it is based on agreement and how they want to make the trade.

[countryfree]

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

That's the question: if the user has had btc for a long time and even earned them years ago by playing on sites that have disappeared or mined btc, if he bought them and no longer has the bank statements (perhaps he's even changed bank since then and there are no archives), it's not going to be easy, if only to declare the capital gains to the tax authorities. In any case, he'll only be able to recover modest sums in PtoP, otherwise the bank's red lights will be going off all over the place.

It will not be easy anyway.

It's totally impossible to buy any property with BTC in France. Proof of funds is not an issue, you wouldn't find a notary to make the sale.
Was there last month, I'm thinking about buying a barn in Normandy, but I didn't even ask about BTC, it would have been a waste of time.

[Becassine]

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

That's the question: if the user has had btc for a long time and even earned them years ago by playing on sites that have disappeared or mined btc, if he bought them and no longer has the bank statements (perhaps he's even changed bank since then and there are no archives), it's not going to be easy, if only to declare the capital gains to the tax authorities. In any case, he'll only be able to recover modest sums in PtoP, otherwise the bank's red lights will be going off all over the place.

It will not be easy anyway.

It's totally impossible to buy any property with BTC in France. Proof of funds is not an issue, you wouldn't find a notary to make the sale.
Was there last month, I'm thinking about buying a barn in Normandy, but I didn't even ask about BTC, it would have been a waste of time.

It's complicated, but not impossible. As I explained earlier, you can use the "dation in payment". In addition, a real estate series on Netflix shows an investor who absolutely wants to pay in BTC; in the docu they don't explain anything, but we can say that as long as the State receives its share (in fiats), then it's possible. After that, it's silly: it's better to resell your btc, pay your flat tax and simplify everything for the notary.

Dation en paiement: this is a method of settling a debt in which the debtor, with the creditor's agreement, hands over to the creditor something other than that initially stipulated in the contract.

Everything you need to know about dation in payment : https://www.village-justice.com/articles/dation-paiement-comme-modalite-reglement-une-dette,38798.html


And if your notary doesn't know about bitcoin, he does know about dation in payment. All that remains is to set the price of the property, and if the seller agrees to a fixed amount of btc at the time of the promise to purchase (even if it means having to put up with market fluctuations).

[zasad@]

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

That's the question: if the user has had btc for a long time and even earned them years ago by playing on sites that have disappeared or mined btc, if he bought them and no longer has the bank statements (perhaps he's even changed bank since then and there are no archives), it's not going to be easy, if only to declare the capital gains to the tax authorities. In any case, he'll only be able to recover modest sums in PtoP, otherwise the bank's red lights will be going off all over the place.

It will not be easy anyway.

It's totally impossible to buy any property with BTC in France. Proof of funds is not an issue, you wouldn't find a notary to make the sale.
Was there last month, I'm thinking about buying a barn in Normandy, but I didn't even ask about BTC, it would have been a waste of time.

It's complicated, but not impossible. As I explained earlier, you can use the "dation in payment". In addition, a real estate series on Netflix shows an investor who absolutely wants to pay in BTC; in the docu they don't explain anything, but we can say that as long as the State receives its share (in fiats), then it's possible. After that, it's silly: it's better to resell your btc, pay your flat tax and simplify everything for the notary.

Dation en paiement: this is a method of settling a debt in which the debtor, with the creditor's agreement, hands over to the creditor something other than that initially stipulated in the contract.

Everything you need to know about dation in payment : https://www.village-justice.com/articles/dation-paiement-comme-modalite-reglement-une-dette,38798.html


And if your notary doesn't know about bitcoin, he does know about dation in payment. All that remains is to set the price of the property, and if the seller agrees to a fixed amount of btc at the time of the promise to purchase (even if it means having to put up with market fluctuations).

Why complicate real estate transactions?
If the cryptocurrency is not prohibited and you pay taxes, then you can sell the cryptocurrency and buy real estate, having coordinated all issues with the bank.
If you do not declare income, then the bank or tax will be forced to do an audit.

[countryfree]

And how do people in France solve problems if they cannot confirm the legality of buying cryptocurrency?
I heard that in countries like France, Germany there are very strict taxation and control over real estate purchases.
I think that there is less and less time left for the cryptocurrency to remain out of control.

That's the question: if the user has had btc for a long time and even earned them years ago by playing on sites that have disappeared or mined btc, if he bought them and no longer has the bank statements (perhaps he's even changed bank since then and there are no archives), it's not going to be easy, if only to declare the capital gains to the tax authorities. In any case, he'll only be able to recover modest sums in PtoP, otherwise the bank's red lights will be going off all over the place.

It will not be easy anyway.

It's totally impossible to buy any property with BTC in France. Proof of funds is not an issue, you wouldn't find a notary to make the sale.
Was there last month, I'm thinking about buying a barn in Normandy, but I didn't even ask about BTC, it would have been a waste of time.

It's complicated, but not impossible. As I explained earlier, you can use the "dation in payment". In addition, a real estate series on Netflix shows an investor who absolutely wants to pay in BTC; in the docu they don't explain anything, but we can say that as long as the State receives its share (in fiats), then it's possible. After that, it's silly: it's better to resell your btc, pay your flat tax and simplify everything for the notary.

Dation en paiement: this is a method of settling a debt in which the debtor, with the creditor's agreement, hands over to the creditor something other than that initially stipulated in the contract.

Everything you need to know about dation in payment : https://www.village-justice.com/articles/dation-paiement-comme-modalite-reglement-une-dette,38798.html


And if your notary doesn't know about bitcoin, he does know about dation in payment. All that remains is to set the price of the property, and if the seller agrees to a fixed amount of btc at the time of the promise to purchase (even if it means having to put up with market fluctuations).

I guess you don't have much experience buying or selling real estate, but I do.
Grab your phone. Call a few French notaries, and ask them if it's possible to buy a property with BTC. You will not find a single one...

[Becassine]

I guess you don't have much experience buying or selling real estate, but I do.
Grab your phone. Call a few French notaries, and ask them if it's possible to buy a property with BTC. You will not find a single one...

The French can be so arrogant. I suppose you're a man, aren't you?
Just because notaires don't want to change their habits, just like accountants, doesn't mean it's impossible to buy a property with bitcoins. It's legal and possible, even if, as I've already explained, it's complicated.

Difficult, but not impossible. And legal.

[zasad@]

One Frenchman has already bought a car with bitcoins:
https://news.bitcoin.com/report-french-crypto-trader-jailed-for-18-months-for-buying-a-ferrari-with-bitcoin/
"Report: French Crypto Trader Jailed for 18 Months for Buying a Ferrari With Bitcoin
A French crypto trader, Thomas Clausi.."

In Russia, smart people always try not to be the first in such situations, but learn from the mistakes of others. You need to wait at least 3-5 years until experience in such transactions is formed.

[Becassine]

One Frenchman has already bought a car with bitcoins:
https://news.bitcoin.com/report-french-crypto-trader-jailed-for-18-months-for-buying-a-ferrari-with-bitcoin/
"Report: French Crypto Trader Jailed for 18 Months for Buying a Ferrari With Bitcoin
A French crypto trader, Thomas Clausi.."

In Russia, smart people always try not to be the first in such situations, but learn from the mistakes of others. You need to wait at least 3-5 years until experience in such transactions is formed.

The story happened in Morocco. The buyer probably took advantage of the fact that the young french seller was unaware of the regulations to file a complaint after the btc dropped.
Although at first she obviously accepted.

Virtual currency transactions are strictly forbidden in Morocco, and officially constitute a breach of the country's foreign exchange regulations. Morocco's foreign exchange regulations clearly stipulate that resident Moroccans may only have foreign accounts under certain conditions (i.e., being an exporter of goods or services). Any breach of these rules is punishable by 5 years' imprisonment and a fine of between 500 and 20,000 dirhams.

[countryfree]

My experiences with French notaries is that they don't give you any choice. The buyer must pay the notary fully or they don't do anything. After the sale, the notary pay the seller. If someone knows another way, please give the name of the notary who allows it.

Actually, I like to do things this way. It's very secure for both buyer and seller. Proof of payment is kept by the notary. Elsewhere, the buyer pays the seller directly with the notary keeping all details of the bank transfer, but the French way is more secure, and more and more countries are adopting it. And that rules out any payment in cryptos.

[Becassine]

My experiences with French notaries is that they don't give you any choice. The buyer must pay the notary fully or they don't do anything. After the sale, the notary pay the seller. If someone knows another way, please give the name of the notary who allows it.

Actually, I like to do things this way. It's very secure for both buyer and seller. Proof of payment is kept by the notary. Elsewhere, the buyer pays the seller directly with the notary keeping all details of the bank transfer, but the French way is more secure, and more and more countries are adopting it. And that rules out any payment in cryptos.

If retailers in France don't accept bitcoin, it's because accountants aren't trained and don't want to get involved. If notaries don't want to transact in bitcoins, it's for the same reasons. But as long as you pay your taxes and the notary in fiat, you can buy your property with whatever you want, as long as the seller agrees. However, the property must be at the "right price", otherwise there's a risk of a tax reassessment.

Here the notary says that if you pay in bitcoins, you avoid the Flat Tax, but I think he's wrong: when you buy a property in bitcoins, you normally have to pay capital gains tax.

https://www.bfmtv.com/immobilier/est-il-possible-d-acheter-son-bien-immobilier-en-bitcoins_AN-202105190634.html

[zasad@]

One Frenchman has already bought a car with bitcoins:
https://news.bitcoin.com/report-french-crypto-trader-jailed-for-18-months-for-buying-a-ferrari-with-bitcoin/
"Report: French Crypto Trader Jailed for 18 Months for Buying a Ferrari With Bitcoin
A French crypto trader, Thomas Clausi.."

In Russia, smart people always try not to be the first in such situations, but learn from the mistakes of others. You need to wait at least 3-5 years until experience in such transactions is formed.

The story happened in Morocco. The buyer probably took advantage of the fact that the young french seller was unaware of the regulations to file a complaint after the btc dropped.
Although at first she obviously accepted.

Virtual currency transactions are strictly forbidden in Morocco, and officially constitute a breach of the country's foreign exchange regulations. Morocco's foreign exchange regulations clearly stipulate that resident Moroccans may only have foreign accounts under certain conditions (i.e., being an exporter of goods or services). Any breach of these rules is punishable by 5 years' imprisonment and a fine of between 500 and 20,000 dirhams.

The key here is knowing the laws and understanding the risks. And what are the risks when buying real estate for bitcoins in France? Will you be sued if the price of bitcoin falls? The price of bitcoin can fall by 10 percent or more per day and can rise.
But won't you have to go to court after that and prove that your transaction was legal?

[Becassine]

One Frenchman has already bought a car with bitcoins:
https://news.bitcoin.com/report-french-crypto-trader-jailed-for-18-months-for-buying-a-ferrari-with-bitcoin/
"Report: French Crypto Trader Jailed for 18 Months for Buying a Ferrari With Bitcoin
A French crypto trader, Thomas Clausi.."

In Russia, smart people always try not to be the first in such situations, but learn from the mistakes of others. You need to wait at least 3-5 years until experience in such transactions is formed.

The story happened in Morocco. The buyer probably took advantage of the fact that the young french seller was unaware of the regulations to file a complaint after the btc dropped.
Although at first she obviously accepted.

Virtual currency transactions are strictly forbidden in Morocco, and officially constitute a breach of the country's foreign exchange regulations. Morocco's foreign exchange regulations clearly stipulate that resident Moroccans may only have foreign accounts under certain conditions (i.e., being an exporter of goods or services). Any breach of these rules is punishable by 5 years' imprisonment and a fine of between 500 and 20,000 dirhams.

The key here is knowing the laws and understanding the risks. And what are the risks when buying real estate for bitcoins in France? Will you be sued if the price of bitcoin falls? The price of bitcoin can fall by 10 percent or more per day and can rise.
But won't you have to go to court after that and prove that your transaction was legal?

As I explained above, buying in btc in France is legal (you need to prove the origin of the funds and pay the flat tax). You can buy a property in apples or anything else as long as taxes and notary fees are paid in fiats and the seller agrees.

As far as market fluctuations are concerned, buyer and seller must agree on the price to be paid in btc, regardless of the exchange rate.

If there's a notarized deed of sale and everything is square, then there's no problem. At least to date.

[zasad@]

One Frenchman has already bought a car with bitcoins:
https://news.bitcoin.com/report-french-crypto-trader-jailed-for-18-months-for-buying-a-ferrari-with-bitcoin/
"Report: French Crypto Trader Jailed for 18 Months for Buying a Ferrari With Bitcoin
A French crypto trader, Thomas Clausi.."

In Russia, smart people always try not to be the first in such situations, but learn from the mistakes of others. You need to wait at least 3-5 years until experience in such transactions is formed.

The story happened in Morocco. The buyer probably took advantage of the fact that the young french seller was unaware of the regulations to file a complaint after the btc dropped.
Although at first she obviously accepted.

Virtual currency transactions are strictly forbidden in Morocco, and officially constitute a breach of the country's foreign exchange regulations. Morocco's foreign exchange regulations clearly stipulate that resident Moroccans may only have foreign accounts under certain conditions (i.e., being an exporter of goods or services). Any breach of these rules is punishable by 5 years' imprisonment and a fine of between 500 and 20,000 dirhams.

The key here is knowing the laws and understanding the risks. And what are the risks when buying real estate for bitcoins in France? Will you be sued if the price of bitcoin falls? The price of bitcoin can fall by 10 percent or more per day and can rise.
But won't you have to go to court after that and prove that your transaction was legal?

As I explained above, buying in btc in France is legal (you need to prove the origin of the funds and pay the flat tax). You can buy a property in apples or anything else as long as taxes and notary fees are paid in fiats and the seller agrees.

As far as market fluctuations are concerned, buyer and seller must agree on the price to be paid in btc, regardless of the exchange rate.

If there's a notarized deed of sale and everything is square, then there's no problem. At least to date.

What is Bitcoin in France? Bitcoin is money, is it a commodity or property?
If an apartment is bought for apples, then this is not a purchase of an apartment, but an exchange agreement

I understand that it is possible to agree on the amount of bitcoins, but I do not understand what additional documents need to be signed so that the parties cannot make claims to each other after the transaction if the price of bitcoin changes.

[Becassine]

What is Bitcoin in France? Bitcoin is money, is it a commodity or property?
If an apartment is bought for apples, then this is not a purchase of an apartment, but an exchange agreement

I understand that it is possible to agree on the amount of bitcoins, but I do not understand what additional documents need to be signed so that the parties cannot make claims to each other after the transaction if the price of bitcoin changes.

In any case, it's not a currency in France (https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/cryptomonnaies-cryptoactifs). The notary will take care of the sales contract. Just like an employment contract, a marriage contract or any other contract.

[countryfree]

What is Bitcoin in France? Bitcoin is money, is it a commodity or property?
If an apartment is bought for apples, then this is not a purchase of an apartment, but an exchange agreement

I understand that it is possible to agree on the amount of bitcoins, but I do not understand what additional documents need to be signed so that the parties cannot make claims to each other after the transaction if the price of bitcoin changes.

In any case, it's not a currency in France (https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/cryptomonnaies-cryptoactifs). The notary will take care of the sales contract. Just like an employment contract, a marriage contract or any other contract.

OK, so that could be legal, but if you want to be useful, give us the name of a notary who would accept to do it.

[Becassine]

OK, so that could be legal, but if you want to be useful, give us the name of a notary who would accept to do it.

What fees do you suggest for finding a notary? I'm no longer useful for free in my old age  

But you're used to real estate transactions, so explain what you want to your notaire and he won't really have any reason to refuse.

[countryfree]

OK, so that could be legal, but if you want to be useful, give us the name of a notary who would accept to do it.

What fees do you suggest for finding a notary? I'm no longer useful for free in my old age  

But you're used to real estate transactions, so explain what you want to your notaire and he won't really have any reason to refuse.

It's not for me. It's about being useful to the community here.
I would never buy a property with BTC. That's an incredibly stupid idea. People who promote it have no business experience, or are crooks. Never use BTC to buy real estate. That's my advice.

[Becassine]

OK, so that could be legal, but if you want to be useful, give us the name of a notary who would accept to do it.

What fees do you suggest for finding a notary? I'm no longer useful for free in my old age  

But you're used to real estate transactions, so explain what you want to your notaire and he won't really have any reason to refuse.

It's not for me. It's about being useful to the community here.
I would never buy a property with BTC. That's an incredibly stupid idea. People who promote it have no business experience, or are crooks. Never use BTC to buy real estate. That's my advice.

Being useful to the bitcoin community in that case ? Taking the directory to potentially find a notary in France who can arrange a sale for you in bitcoins, I do not see how it is useful to the community, especially since notaries also inform and form themselves. In addition we are not even on the local board (french). And if a foreigner wants to buy in France with btc, he surely also has his own notary who will get in touch with a French notary.

The list of notaries who could accept bitcoins may therefore vary each day, depends of their curiosity/information. In addition you say yourselves that buying in bitcoins is stupid and that you have not even raised the issue with your notary. It would therefore be a waste of time to look for a notary today without any intention of buying a property with bitcoins. But out of curiosity, you can still ask your notary.

I gave a lot of info on real estate and bitcoin in France, which may be useful, but to serve as a volunteer secretary for a stranger who in the end finds it stupid, no really it's not useful

[Zoomic]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

[zasad@]

What is Bitcoin in France? Bitcoin is money, is it a commodity or property?
If an apartment is bought for apples, then this is not a purchase of an apartment, but an exchange agreement

I understand that it is possible to agree on the amount of bitcoins, but I do not understand what additional documents need to be signed so that the parties cannot make claims to each other after the transaction if the price of bitcoin changes.

In any case, it's not a currency in France (https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/cryptomonnaies-cryptoactifs). The notary will take care of the sales contract. Just like an employment contract, a marriage contract or any other contract.

In my country, you cannot buy an apartment with bitcoins, but if it is allowed, then I will not be the first to do it. The statute of limitations is long, legal practice takes 2-5 years to form, and why risk a large amount of money if buying an apartment for fiat is easier and cheaper?

[Bushdark]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

[zasad@]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

[virasog]

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

The problem to find a notary and a lawyer is not much of a hassle but the problem will be to find a customer who will be willing to accept crypto in order to sell the house. Usually, people will hesitate to receive payments in cryptocurrency as they believe that due to the highly volatile nature of crypto, the price may dump and causes an instant loss.

Secondly, these crypto transactions can only be executed publicly in a country where crypto is legal and the government has no objection to transacting publicly in cryptocurrencies.

As far as the tax is concerned, the parties will have to pay the taxes, either way, whether those choose fiat to execute this deal or use bitcoin/crypto.

[zasad@]

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

The problem to find a notary and a lawyer is not much of a hassle but the problem will be to find a customer who will be willing to accept crypto in order to sell the house. Usually, people will hesitate to receive payments in cryptocurrency as they believe that due to the highly volatile nature of crypto, the price may dump and causes an instant loss.

Secondly, these crypto transactions can only be executed publicly in a country where crypto is legal and the government has no objection to transacting publicly in cryptocurrencies.

As far as the tax is concerned, the parties will have to pay the taxes, either way, whether those choose fiat to execute this deal or use bitcoin/crypto.

Loss when the price of cryptocurrencies decreases is not the main reason. For example, I would sell real estate for cryptocurrency without any problems, because I don’t want to deal with banks, and a cash transaction is not safe.
But the seller of real estate has another problem in the form of a tax declaration of cryptocurrencies later. Money in a bank account from the sale of real estate should not be subject to additional taxes.
If anyone knows, tell me what is the tax deduction for the sale of real estate in France?

[Bushdark]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

Paying tax is both involved in whether one is ready to sell or trade in fiat or cryptocurrency  but I think weighing the level of tax to pay when we trade in cryptocurrency will be less and not compared when tbe figures is in fiat when the government always have stable percentage they will collect. Taxes is one thing that cripple the interest of trading in cryptocurrency especially when we want to sell real estate. If the government frown or does not have a simple law that support cryptocurrency, they could want to stress those who will like to trade for cryptocurrency with a high tax rate to reduce the influence of cryptocurrency by the citizens.

[zasad@]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

Paying tax is both involved in whether one is ready to sell or trade in fiat or cryptocurrency  but I think weighing the level of tax to pay when we trade in cryptocurrency will be less and not compared when tbe figures is in fiat when the government always have stable percentage they will collect. Taxes is one thing that cripple the interest of trading in cryptocurrency especially when we want to sell real estate. If the government frown or does not have a simple law that support cryptocurrency, they could want to stress those who will like to trade for cryptocurrency with a high tax rate to reduce the influence of cryptocurrency by the citizens.

In France the tax rates are not the same and they are different for Occasional investors, Professional traders and Crypto Miners.
And there are difficulties in choosing the optimal regime for paying taxes. Occasional investors pay 30% of taxes, and this is a lot.

[Becassine]

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

The problem to find a notary and a lawyer is not much of a hassle but the problem will be to find a customer who will be willing to accept crypto in order to sell the house. Usually, people will hesitate to receive payments in cryptocurrency as they believe that due to the highly volatile nature of crypto, the price may dump and causes an instant loss.

Secondly, these crypto transactions can only be executed publicly in a country where crypto is legal and the government has no objection to transacting publicly in cryptocurrencies.

As far as the tax is concerned, the parties will have to pay the taxes, either way, whether those choose fiat to execute this deal or use bitcoin/crypto.

Loss when the price of cryptocurrencies decreases is not the main reason. For example, I would sell real estate for cryptocurrency without any problems, because I don’t want to deal with banks, and a cash transaction is not safe.
But the seller of real estate has another problem in the form of a tax declaration of cryptocurrencies later. Money in a bank account from the sale of real estate should not be subject to additional taxes.
If anyone knows, tell me what is the tax deduction for the sale of real estate in France?

Capital gains tax depends on several factors:

- Is it a principal residence or not?
- Number of years held.
- Amount of capital gain

Etc ....

And there are exemptions too, all explained on the french tax site => https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10864

[zasad@]

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

The problem to find a notary and a lawyer is not much of a hassle but the problem will be to find a customer who will be willing to accept crypto in order to sell the house. Usually, people will hesitate to receive payments in cryptocurrency as they believe that due to the highly volatile nature of crypto, the price may dump and causes an instant loss.

Secondly, these crypto transactions can only be executed publicly in a country where crypto is legal and the government has no objection to transacting publicly in cryptocurrencies.

As far as the tax is concerned, the parties will have to pay the taxes, either way, whether those choose fiat to execute this deal or use bitcoin/crypto.

Loss when the price of cryptocurrencies decreases is not the main reason. For example, I would sell real estate for cryptocurrency without any problems, because I don’t want to deal with banks, and a cash transaction is not safe.
But the seller of real estate has another problem in the form of a tax declaration of cryptocurrencies later. Money in a bank account from the sale of real estate should not be subject to additional taxes.
If anyone knows, tell me what is the tax deduction for the sale of real estate in France?

Capital gains tax depends on several factors:

- Is it a principal residence or not?
- Number of years held.
- Amount of capital gain

Etc ....

And there are exemptions too, all explained on the french tax site => https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10864

Thank you, oh nagogs on real estate in France, you will run away. The article says:
"In all cases, you are exempt from capital gains tax on any property that you have owned for more than 22 years."
In Russia, this term is 3 years and it does not matter what kind of property you sell, the main one, where you live or the additional one, which you use or not.

[Becassine]

Thank you, oh nagogs on real estate in France, you will run away. The article says:
"In all cases, you are exempt from capital gains tax on any property that you have owned for more than 22 years."
In Russia, this term is 3 years and it does not matter what kind of property you sell, the main one, where you live or the additional one, which you use or not.

It's not over: you are also taxed each time you donate (with exemptions and reductions...). A house passed down from generation to generation will be taxed and re-taxed, in addition to local taxes. But as they say at the WEF: "you will have nothing and you will be happy"

Taxes and donations in France : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10203

[zasad@]

Thank you, oh nagogs on real estate in France, you will run away. The article says:
"In all cases, you are exempt from capital gains tax on any property that you have owned for more than 22 years."
In Russia, this term is 3 years and it does not matter what kind of property you sell, the main one, where you live or the additional one, which you use or not.

It's not over: you are also taxed each time you donate (with exemptions and reductions...). A house passed down from generation to generation will be taxed and re-taxed, in addition to local taxes. But as they say at the WEF: "you will have nothing and you will be happy"

Taxes and donations in France : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10203

There is no inheritance tax in Russia, only a state duty of 0.3%, if the owner of the property gives it to a close relative during his lifetime, then there will be no taxes. 0.3% is paid not from the market value, but from the amount of expert assessment, which is underestimated to the maximum. In France, there are no such holes in the laws?

[Becassine]

Thank you, oh nagogs on real estate in France, you will run away. The article says:
"In all cases, you are exempt from capital gains tax on any property that you have owned for more than 22 years."
In Russia, this term is 3 years and it does not matter what kind of property you sell, the main one, where you live or the additional one, which you use or not.

It's not over: you are also taxed each time you donate (with exemptions and reductions...). A house passed down from generation to generation will be taxed and re-taxed, in addition to local taxes. But as they say at the WEF: "you will have nothing and you will be happy"

Taxes and donations in France : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10203

There is no inheritance tax in Russia, only a state duty of 0.3%, if the owner of the property gives it to a close relative during his lifetime, then there will be no taxes. 0.3% is paid not from the market value, but from the amount of expert assessment, which is underestimated to the maximum. In France, there are no such holes in the laws?

Taxation in France is quite complex, which is also the reason why there are tax advisers and tax lawyers. The wealthiest are therefore the best advised and it is they who can have the most reduction and exemption. Here the site on family donations : https://www.economie.gouv.fr/cedef/fiscalite-dons-familiaux

And now, unless I'm mistaken, since income tax has been deducted at source, taxes on rental income are paid in advance, based on the previous year's income: so if you didn't rent one year, the government will reimburse you the following year. (a way of generating cash flow for the tax authorities).
In any case, in France, it seems to me that the government is raising taxes rather than cutting its own spending.

[zasad@]

Thank you, oh nagogs on real estate in France, you will run away. The article says:
"In all cases, you are exempt from capital gains tax on any property that you have owned for more than 22 years."
In Russia, this term is 3 years and it does not matter what kind of property you sell, the main one, where you live or the additional one, which you use or not.

It's not over: you are also taxed each time you donate (with exemptions and reductions...). A house passed down from generation to generation will be taxed and re-taxed, in addition to local taxes. But as they say at the WEF: "you will have nothing and you will be happy"

Taxes and donations in France : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10203

There is no inheritance tax in Russia, only a state duty of 0.3%, if the owner of the property gives it to a close relative during his lifetime, then there will be no taxes. 0.3% is paid not from the market value, but from the amount of expert assessment, which is underestimated to the maximum. In France, there are no such holes in the laws?

Taxation in France is quite complex, which is also the reason why there are tax advisers and tax lawyers. The wealthiest are therefore the best advised and it is they who can have the most reduction and exemption. Here the site on family donations : https://www.economie.gouv.fr/cedef/fiscalite-dons-familiaux

And now, unless I'm mistaken, since income tax has been deducted at source, taxes on rental income are paid in advance, based on the previous year's income: so if you didn't rent one year, the government will reimburse you the following year. (a way of generating cash flow for the tax authorities).
In any case, in France, it seems to me that the government is raising taxes rather than cutting its own spending.

100,000 euros is a very small amount for a tax deduction, because real estate is more expensive in France. And such a deduction can be made once every 15 years. Russia has the simplest tax legislation for individuals, and the most uneducated citizen can understand it. This article contains very complex calculation rules that will most likely require the additional services of tax lawyers.
I know that salaries are high in Europe, but I heard from people that up to half of their income is spent on taxes and insurance.

[Becassine]

100,000 euros is a very small amount for a tax deduction, because real estate is more expensive in France. And such a deduction can be made once every 15 years. Russia has the simplest tax legislation for individuals, and the most uneducated citizen can understand it. This article contains very complex calculation rules that will most likely require the additional services of tax lawyers.
I know that salaries are high in Europe, but I heard from people that up to half of their income is spent on taxes and insurance.

It's been years that wages are no longer in line with real estate prices. Previously everyone could buy their home based on their salary, despite high borrowing rates. A worker could buy a house without his wife working (in the 1960s). Then wages no longer kept up with inflation (1983, socialist government, unless I'm mistaken).

Now even people with high wages have to go into 30-year debt to buy an apartment in Paris or a big city. Real estate prices are insane.

But a lot will happen in the months to come: if the owners have to do some kind of advanced technical control of their house to sell and must have a property that complies ecologically with the government's requirements, it is very likely to stop the machine. Not all homeowners can afford expensive work to insulate their home before selling it.

The rental market is super tight: prices are also soaring in the big cities and seaside resorts. There too it will be necessary to rent with precise environmental standards, in addition to that it takes at least two years to evict a tenant who does not pay his rent, investors turn to seasonal rentals or invest in something else.

Let's see what will happen in the following months ...

[zasad@]

100,000 euros is a very small amount for a tax deduction, because real estate is more expensive in France. And such a deduction can be made once every 15 years. Russia has the simplest tax legislation for individuals, and the most uneducated citizen can understand it. This article contains very complex calculation rules that will most likely require the additional services of tax lawyers.
I know that salaries are high in Europe, but I heard from people that up to half of their income is spent on taxes and insurance.

It's been years that wages are no longer in line with real estate prices. Previously everyone could buy their home based on their salary, despite high borrowing rates. A worker could buy a house without his wife working (in the 1960s). Then wages no longer kept up with inflation (1983, socialist government, unless I'm mistaken).

Now even people with high wages have to go into 30-year debt to buy an apartment in Paris or a big city. Real estate prices are insane.

But a lot will happen in the months to come: if the owners have to do some kind of advanced technical control of their house to sell and must have a property that complies ecologically with the government's requirements, it is very likely to stop the machine. Not all homeowners can afford expensive work to insulate their home before selling it.

The rental market is super tight: prices are also soaring in the big cities and seaside resorts. There too it will be necessary to rent with precise environmental standards, in addition to that it takes at least two years to evict a tenant who does not pay his rent, investors turn to seasonal rentals or invest in something else.

Let's see what will happen in the following months ...

I don't understand why real estate prices are rising in France. Investors do not want to buy expensive real estate and invest in other countries with a good climate, such as Georgia, where you can invest in construction at an early stage and get an apartment at a price of 800-1000 dollars per square meter without renovation. How do you like these prices?

[Bushdark]

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

Paying tax is both involved in whether one is ready to sell or trade in fiat or cryptocurrency  but I think weighing the level of tax to pay when we trade in cryptocurrency will be less and not compared when tbe figures is in fiat when the government always have stable percentage they will collect. Taxes is one thing that cripple the interest of trading in cryptocurrency especially when we want to sell real estate. If the government frown or does not have a simple law that support cryptocurrency, they could want to stress those who will like to trade for cryptocurrency with a high tax rate to reduce the influence of cryptocurrency by the citizens.

In France the tax rates are not the same and they are different for Occasional investors, Professional traders and Crypto Miners.
And there are difficulties in choosing the optimal regime for paying taxes. Occasional investors pay 30% of taxes, and this is a lot.

Does it means that the kind of crypto investors or adoptee tha you are will determine the kind of tax that one will pay.
It looks like those firms and high profile people that are into cryptocurrency would have to pay more tax than those that are just mere investors or traders.
Normally, I think those crypto miners and big firm investors need to pay more tax because they earn more from cryptocurrency than those that are just small scale traders and investors. Paying 30% of income as tax is extremely too big and  I don't see myself paying this kind of high tax fee if I am eventually a big crypto investor.

[Becassine]

I don't understand why real estate prices are rising in France. Investors do not want to buy expensive real estate and invest in other countries with a good climate, such as Georgia, where you can invest in construction at an early stage and get an apartment at a price of 800-1000 dollars per square meter without renovation. How do you like these prices?

Think that with each sale, the government takes a part, the department too, without counting the real estate agencies. Of course the banks also with their 25-year loans. Housing is a basic need. This race for profit is totally insane. But right now, with interest rates going up, good loan applications are being turned down. The cash machine begins to seize up. So much the better, otherwise young people can no longer find accommodation.

On the other hand with declining transactions and therefore the taxes that go with it too, the French government will find us a new tax to compensate.

[zasad@]

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for. Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

To buy real estate for cryptocurrency you need to solve two main problems:
Find a notary and a lawyer who will execute the contract and register this purchase.
You need to pay taxes on cryptocurrency, read the latest tax guides:
https://coinpanda.io/guides/crypto-taxes-france/
https://blockpit.io/en/tax-guides/tax-crypto-guide-france/
Pay your taxes, but don't feel like an idiot afterwards. Some tax rates are inadequate.

Paying tax is both involved in whether one is ready to sell or trade in fiat or cryptocurrency  but I think weighing the level of tax to pay when we trade in cryptocurrency will be less and not compared when tbe figures is in fiat when the government always have stable percentage they will collect. Taxes is one thing that cripple the interest of trading in cryptocurrency especially when we want to sell real estate. If the government frown or does not have a simple law that support cryptocurrency, they could want to stress those who will like to trade for cryptocurrency with a high tax rate to reduce the influence of cryptocurrency by the citizens.

In France the tax rates are not the same and they are different for Occasional investors, Professional traders and Crypto Miners.
And there are difficulties in choosing the optimal regime for paying taxes. Occasional investors pay 30% of taxes, and this is a lot.

Does it means that the kind of crypto investors or adoptee tha you are will determine the kind of tax that one will pay.
It looks like those firms and high profile people that are into cryptocurrency would have to pay more tax than those that are just mere investors or traders.
Normally, I think those crypto miners and big firm investors need to pay more tax because they earn more from cryptocurrency than those that are just small scale traders and investors. Paying 30% of income as tax is extremely too big and  I don't see myself paying this kind of high tax fee if I am eventually a big crypto investor.

I think that the French will not pay higher taxes on cryptocurrencies. If in France the tax is about 30% and in offshore zones near Europe or the USA this tax is 0-5%, then European and American lawyers will always have a lot of work

I don't understand why real estate prices are rising in France. Investors do not want to buy expensive real estate and invest in other countries with a good climate, such as Georgia, where you can invest in construction at an early stage and get an apartment at a price of 800-1000 dollars per square meter without renovation. How do you like these prices?

Think that with each sale, the government takes a part, the department too, without counting the real estate agencies. Of course the banks also with their 25-year loans. Housing is a basic need. This race for profit is totally insane. But right now, with interest rates going up, good loan applications are being turned down. The cash machine begins to seize up. So much the better, otherwise young people can no longer find accommodation.

On the other hand with declining transactions and therefore the taxes that go with it too, the French government will find us a new tax to compensate.

I understand that real estate is worth buying with a mortgage when there is a chance to become the owner of the property. But to engage in a debt relationship with a bank for 25-30 years is a modern form of slavery in Europe.
I can't imagine how many additional insurance payments for health and real estate citizens have been paying for these years.

[Zoomic]

Unfortunately, it's illegal to buy property in the EU with BTC. To those who are not familiar with this business, it's also illegal to pay in a foreign currency like the US dollar, or to pay cash save in one country.  Even if the buyer accepts BTC, the transaction must be in the currency which is legal tender in the country, and the price shall be written in the contract. Sorry, but there's no choice.

Good to know how it's done in EU. But this cannot be taken as standards for othe countries. In my country bitcoin is not a legal tender but people still trade it. But I also thin there might be problems in reconciling the price to fiat for documentation. This is actually a problem easy to solve, just convert your btc to fiat and buy your property.

Bitcoin is not generally acceptable that is why every countries have there own law that is backing them up. If Bitcoin is acceptable in your country for trades then that is fine but that are some places that the use of crypto is purely ban while we areas, they are strictly regulated because the government is keeping an eye on how frequent and what sort people are using crypto for.

Every country's government is very careful about bitcoin and cryptocurrency. This is because there are so many opportunities in the crypto to cheat government, to fraud, steal and lots more. This crimes differ from country to country and that is why laws and regulations about cryptocurrency is not universal.

Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

On the contrary, the vision of Satoshi is not to make bitcoin a general currency according to you. His goal was to create a decentralized currency which will serve as a alternative to the centralized fiat system. Counting my this, Satoshi's goal has been met and even exceeded.

[zasad@]

Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

On the contrary, the vision of Satoshi is not to make bitcoin a general currency according to you. His goal was to create a decentralized currency which will serve as a alternative to the centralized fiat system. Counting my this, Satoshi's goal has been met and even exceeded.

I agree with you, but it is still too early to talk about achieving the goal, because digital currencies are launched almost simultaneously in all countries, and after testing them, there are so many risks that Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies can be banned because they interfere with digital slavery.

[Zoomic]

Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

On the contrary, the vision of Satoshi is not to make bitcoin a general currency according to you. His goal was to create a decentralized currency which will serve as a alternative to the centralized fiat system. Counting my this, Satoshi's goal has been met and even exceeded.

I agree with you, but it is still too early to talk about achieving the goal, because digital currencies are launched almost simultaneously in all countries, and after testing them, there are so many risks that Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies can be banned because they interfere with digital slavery.

You are correct and that also is my fear. But then, even if there is massive banning of all the cryptocurrency that interfer in the digital slavery agenda, the level of decentralization will tend to immune bitcoin and be the sole factor that will finally differential bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies on the alter of banishment.

[zasad@]

Maybe in years coming if there is a need for Bitcoin to become a general currency then the aim of Satoshi Nakamoto will be accomplished but there is still fear that Bitcoin might become regulated.

On the contrary, the vision of Satoshi is not to make bitcoin a general currency according to you. His goal was to create a decentralized currency which will serve as a alternative to the centralized fiat system. Counting my this, Satoshi's goal has been met and even exceeded.

I agree with you, but it is still too early to talk about achieving the goal, because digital currencies are launched almost simultaneously in all countries, and after testing them, there are so many risks that Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies can be banned because they interfere with digital slavery.

You are correct and that also is my fear. But then, even if there is massive banning of all the cryptocurrency that interfer in the digital slavery agenda, the level of decentralization will tend to immune bitcoin and be the sole factor that will finally differential bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies on the alter of banishment.

Not all coins will be banned. Ethereum and its competitors will be used to tokenize assets, and it may be easier to buy real estate in the future.
https://www.theblock.co/post/241382/securitize-launches-tokenized-security-in-europe
"Securitize, a blockchain firm specializing in the tokenization of real-world assets, has started issuing tokenized securities in Europe that represent equity in the Spanish real estate investment trust Mancipi Partners.
The shares will be tokenized on the Avalanche blockchain, and secondary trading is set to begin in September. "

[joniboini]

Ethereum and its competitors will be used to tokenize assets, and it may be easier to buy real estate in the future."

This reminds me of some altcoin projects I've followed in the past. They do similar things but in the end, failed. Some of them even run away and scam their users. Not really sure how to feel about tokenized assets, especially if most of them are overseas. Most smart contracts are hard to understand/verify and prone to hack too. I'd rather not buy them and stick with buying Bitcoin if an investment is my goal.

[zasad@]

Ethereum and its competitors will be used to tokenize assets, and it may be easier to buy real estate in the future."

This reminds me of some altcoin projects I've followed in the past. They do similar things but in the end, failed. Some of them even run away and scam their users. Not really sure how to feel about tokenized assets, especially if most of them are overseas. Most smart contracts are hard to understand/verify and prone to hack too. I'd rather not buy them and stick with buying Bitcoin if an investment is my goal.

Here the problem is more in the legislation, and if something is tokenized, then most likely there will be additional protection methods that will not allow selling tokens from any wallet. Trading can be decentralized, but for this you will need to be registered on a centralized service.
And there are always risks in investing, but simple exchange smart contracts are difficult to hack.

[joniboini]

Here the problem is more in the legislation, and if something is tokenized, then most likely there will be additional protection methods that will not allow selling tokens from any wallet.

I do recall one of the projects asked me to fill out a KYC form and provide an ID plus wallet address to claim the tokenized assets. If you don't live in the US or Europe it is difficult to claim the tokens, and you literally have no one to rely on if you want to file a claim against them if your country doesn't even allow tokens and stuff like that. I don't think this thing will become mainstream in the near future for countries in Asia.

[zasad@]

Here the problem is more in the legislation, and if something is tokenized, then most likely there will be additional protection methods that will not allow selling tokens from any wallet.

I do recall one of the projects asked me to fill out a KYC form and provide an ID plus wallet address to claim the tokenized assets. If you don't live in the US or Europe it is difficult to claim the tokens, and you literally have no one to rely on if you want to file a claim against them if your country doesn't even allow tokens and stuff like that. I don't think this thing will become mainstream in the near future for countries in Asia.

Russia, Asian countries have always lagged behind the United States by 5-7 years. In the US, some companies use smart contracts and tokens legally, but all transactions go through registration and a centralized personal account. On the one hand, the blockchain acts as a guarantor of the transparency of transactions, but on the other hand, all operations must be done on a centralized service. Of course, such investments are not suitable for everyone.

[Zoomic]

Here the problem is more in the legislation, and if something is tokenized, then most likely there will be additional protection methods that will not allow selling tokens from any wallet.

I do recall one of the projects asked me to fill out a KYC form and provide an ID plus wallet address to claim the tokenized assets. If you don't live in the US or Europe it is difficult to claim the tokens, and you literally have no one to rely on if you want to file a claim against them if your country doesn't even allow tokens and stuff like that. I don't think this thing will become mainstream in the near future for countries in Asia.

I had similar experience and they later ran away. I completed KYC, provided wallet address and also had to download and fill some documents which looked real. I had to even sign the whole document and even made  signatory. I was told I must have someone who will represent me in Europe for physical completion of documentation.  But within a short while they vanished.

[zasad@]

Here the problem is more in the legislation, and if something is tokenized, then most likely there will be additional protection methods that will not allow selling tokens from any wallet.

I do recall one of the projects asked me to fill out a KYC form and provide an ID plus wallet address to claim the tokenized assets. If you don't live in the US or Europe it is difficult to claim the tokens, and you literally have no one to rely on if you want to file a claim against them if your country doesn't even allow tokens and stuff like that. I don't think this thing will become mainstream in the near future for countries in Asia.

I had similar experience and they later ran away. I completed KYC, provided wallet address and also had to download and fill some documents which looked real. I had to even sign the whole document and even made  signatory. I was told I must have someone who will represent me in Europe for physical completion of documentation.  But within a short while they vanished.

What made you go through the KYC procedure?
There are a lot of scammers in the cryptocurrency sector in the US, Canada and Europe, although many users think that these countries are safe and there are fewer scammers there.
In order not to be deceived, you need to wait for the company to prove itself in the market and earn a reputation, so that it would not be profitable for it to disappear with money or user data.

[Zoomic]

What made you go through the KYC procedure?
There are a lot of scammers in the cryptocurrency sector in the US, Canada and Europe, although many users think that these countries are safe and there are fewer scammers there.
In order not to be deceived, you need to wait for the company to prove itself in the market and earn a reputation, so that it would not be profitable for it to disappear with money or user data.

You said it rightly. Haven verified that the company was based in UK, I had some level of believe in the project. I had thought that SEC was effective and hard on them. It was based on this believe of mine that I went deep into the project and in the end I lost much. The reason I completed KYC was this; KYC was not said to be a prerequisite, but when they claim the bond is matured, I was then forced to complete KYC as a compulsory requirement for the investment exit.

[zasad@]

What made you go through the KYC procedure?
There are a lot of scammers in the cryptocurrency sector in the US, Canada and Europe, although many users think that these countries are safe and there are fewer scammers there.
In order not to be deceived, you need to wait for the company to prove itself in the market and earn a reputation, so that it would not be profitable for it to disappear with money or user data.

You said it rightly. Haven verified that the company was based in UK, I had some level of believe in the project. I had thought that SEC was effective and hard on them. It was based on this believe of mine that I went deep into the project and in the end I lost much. The reason I completed KYC was this; KYC was not said to be a prerequisite, but when they claim the bond is matured, I was then forced to complete KYC as a compulsory requirement for the investment exit.

I had acquaintances who opened companies in the UK, but they had never been to this country. Maybe now there are more serious requirements for the opening of firms, but for a long time I do not believe that in these countries the interests of non-citizens will be protected.If I want to invest in companies, then it is better to use the stock market, where there is very tight control.

[Zoomic]

What made you go through the KYC procedure?
There are a lot of scammers in the cryptocurrency sector in the US, Canada and Europe, although many users think that these countries are safe and there are fewer scammers there.
In order not to be deceived, you need to wait for the company to prove itself in the market and earn a reputation, so that it would not be profitable for it to disappear with money or user data.

You said it rightly. Haven verified that the company was based in UK, I had some level of believe in the project. I had thought that SEC was effective and hard on them. It was based on this believe of mine that I went deep into the project and in the end I lost much. The reason I completed KYC was this; KYC was not said to be a prerequisite, but when they claim the bond is matured, I was then forced to complete KYC as a compulsory requirement for the investment exit.

I had acquaintances who opened companies in the UK, but they had never been to this country. Maybe now there are more serious requirements for the opening of firms, but for a long time I do not believe that in these countries the interests of non-citizens will be protected.If I want to invest in companies, then it is better to use the stock market, where there is very tight control.

You are right!
Even when I tried to take a legal action in UK and I had a representative, the gesture was that the case won't be treated as important. It will need my presence in UK to facilitate hearing or whatever. I finally gave up.
I had counted it as a mistake, it is better to invest in a decentralized project like bitcoin where everyone is treated equally or also in stock where there is tight control. Thanks for your advice.

[zasad@]

What made you go through the KYC procedure?
There are a lot of scammers in the cryptocurrency sector in the US, Canada and Europe, although many users think that these countries are safe and there are fewer scammers there.
In order not to be deceived, you need to wait for the company to prove itself in the market and earn a reputation, so that it would not be profitable for it to disappear with money or user data.

You said it rightly. Haven verified that the company was based in UK, I had some level of believe in the project. I had thought that SEC was effective and hard on them. It was based on this believe of mine that I went deep into the project and in the end I lost much. The reason I completed KYC was this; KYC was not said to be a prerequisite, but when they claim the bond is matured, I was then forced to complete KYC as a compulsory requirement for the investment exit.

I had acquaintances who opened companies in the UK, but they had never been to this country. Maybe now there are more serious requirements for the opening of firms, but for a long time I do not believe that in these countries the interests of non-citizens will be protected.If I want to invest in companies, then it is better to use the stock market, where there is very tight control.

You are right!
Even when I tried to take a legal action in UK and I had a representative, the gesture was that the case won't be treated as important. It will need my presence in UK to facilitate hearing or whatever. I finally gave up.
I had counted it as a mistake, it is better to invest in a decentralized project like bitcoin where everyone is treated equally or also in stock where there is tight control. Thanks for your advice.

Nothing new in scam schemes. Fraudsters take advantage of the fact that the cost of legal fees and the costs of the applicant are much higher than the amount of lost funds. And if personal presence is still required, then the costs increase. And a lawyer cannot guarantee a 100% result, because it is unethical.
Have you tried filing a fraud report in your country? Most likely there will be no result, but this will complicate the life of scammers in the future.