Claiming BCH from BTC stored in Electrum and moving everything to Ledger Nano S

[LoyceV]

What I'm wondering is can I simply transfer the BTC from my Electrum into my Ledger Nano S (instead of transferring to a new Electrum address)

Yes.

and then install Electron Cash (on a different machine, although, post-successful-transfer, I doubt it matters, but better be safe than sorry) and use the old Electrum BTC address to claim BCH from?

You can, but you risk sending your BSV to the same address (on a different chain) too.

Just do not use your old seeds or private keys after claiming BCH from Electrum. Because you are going to input your seed/private keys to another wallet which is a fork of Electrum.

Exactly. You should consider your private keys compromised after doing this. This is also how several people lost their Bitcoin, and that's why you should always transfer them before doing anything else.

I don't want to rush, in case the exact sequence of doing things in order to claim fork coins is important.

I'd go from most valuable to least valuable coin, in that order. This way, if one of the wallets turns out to be compromised, you limit your losses.

And regarding BSV, which I'm just reading about... I understand there was a BCH hard fork about two weeks ago. Can I claim BSV too, or do I have to have claimed BCH FIRST, before 15th November? Or is it enough to have owned BTC prior to 15th November, regardless of whether I claimed BCH or not?

You own all these Forkcoins if you have "old" Bitcoins. BSV is not the recent fork, BSV came out of BCH, and BCH recently forked again (into BCHABC. And none of them have replay protection!
The easiest way to split them is by receiving a small amount of each coin, and including that in the transaction.
In short:
1. Secure your Bitcoin by sending to your Ledger.
2. Receive $0.01 worth of BCH from an input that doesn't exist on any of the other chains. Include that $0.01 worth of BCH into your transaction, and it can't be replayed on other chains.
3. Do the same for BSV.
4. Do it for whatever new fork they make too.

There's also Bitcoin Gold and Bitcoin Diamond. I don't think they have replay problems, and depending how many Bitcoins you're holding it may or may not be worth your time. I haven't figured out the many other Forks yet, but I doubt it's still worth it.

[vladman]

@LoyceV Thank you.

Some parts of the process, mainly how to send BTC from Electrum to Ledger I'm clear on. Others, a little less so, all this about claiming BCH and BSV (and potentially others you mention), but I'll figure it out. Like you said, I'll do the most important thing first, which is secure my BTC by transferring it from Electrum to my Ledger. Although, because of the super-high fees, I've put this off for now too, and am trying to figure out the best way forward. Are the fees likely to go down at any point? Is it even possible to know this?

Again, thank you all who have contributed here, you've really helped me out, really appreciate it! 

[LoyceV]

Although, because of the super-high fees, I've put this off for now too, and am trying to figure out the best way forward. Are the fees likely to go down at any point? Is it even possible to know this?

If you have many different inputs (and thus a large transaction size), you may want to read about consolidating small inputs.
You can just set a low fee in Electrum (enable manual editing in the settings), but in that case you'll have to wait until the transaction is confirmed before touching your Forkcoins. See Johoe's Bitcoin Stats for the current best fees, but if you're not in a rush, you can go lower than this (and wait as long as it takes).

[Lucius]

Although, because of the super-high fees, I've put this off for now too, and am trying to figure out the best way forward. Are the fees likely to go down at any point? Is it even possible to know this?

Go back to the first page and read the last post, you obviously missed to read it - and there I tried to explain some things when it comes to fees and how to determine how much to pay in relation to the current number of transactions and all parameters you set in your wallet. You will have to pay the transaction fee sooner or later, and if we take into account your previous post in which you say: "The fee is exorbitant (EDIT: this is even when sliding the slider all the way to the left)!", this means that your transaction is quite large in size, even if you pay 1 satoshi byte which is the smallest value.

In that case, only the time of confirmation plays a role for you - if everything is as you wrote, you can't go cheaper in terms of how much satoshi you will pay in total to empty the wallet.

[vladman]

Thank you @LoyceV and @Lucius!

Yes, there are many small inputs, which I now understand are the reason the fee is high.

@Lucius, no, I didn't miss anything, and I appreciate you trying to help, it's just that initially I didn't know I could manually enter whatever fee (satoshi/byte) I want, I thought I had to go with what Electrum was pre-populating, which was something like 105 sat/B. Yes, of course I understand I have to pay a fee, and I will happily pay more than 1 sat/B, but not 100x more, which results in a very large fee for me, because I really just need the transaction to confirm, but speed isn't of major importance.

I understand lower fees mean longer confirmation times. Do I have any reason to worry if my transaction doesn't confirm in a long time, I don't know days, or even weeks? Because during that time, I feel like my BTC is in "limbo", neither here nor there, and that's quite unnerving. Or is being patient the only requirement, and the transaction WILL DEFINITELY eventually confirm, and it's not possible for the BTC sent to "vanish", never reaching the receiving address? 

Thanks!

[LoyceV]

Do I have any reason to worry if my transaction doesn't confirm in a long time, I don't know days, or even weeks? Because during that time, I feel like my BTC is in "limbo", neither here nor there, and that's quite unnerving. Or is being patient the only requirement, and the transaction WILL DEFINITELY eventually confirm, and it's not possible for the BTC sent to "vanish", never reaching the receiving address? 

Bitcoin's can't disappear. As long as your wallet keeps broadcasting the transaction, it'll confirm eventually. However, there's no "DEFINITELY" in this: as long as fees stay high because users keep making more transactions than fit the blocks, low-fee transactions will be ignored (Bitcoin miners choose the transactions that earn them most profit).
Most wallets though stop broadcasting after a while. In that case the unconfirmed transaction disappears from mempool, and your funds show up in your own wallet again.

Whatever you do: don't start messing around with Forkcoins before your Bitcoins are safely confirmed in your wallet.

[bob123]

[...] and it's not possible for the BTC sent to "vanish", never reaching the receiving address? 

This, for sure, is not possible.

If your transaction is marked as RBF, you can always just create a new transaction spending the same funds again.
This way, your transaction won't be "in limbo".

It might not get confirmed for quite some time, but eventually it will. And with RBF, you are always free to create a new transaction (e.g. with a higher fee).

[vladman]

Hi all,

I've put this off for a few days, and I'm back at it now, and ready to send my BTC. It seems that the fees are much lower and that when I was first discussing this with you all, 1st December, for some reason, fees were really high that day.

Anyway, I'm about to send it all in Electrum, and I'm nervous!

Just wanted to check that everything I'm seeing on my screen, and doing, is correct (because it's changed since I last sent any BTC from electrum, many years/versions ago). There just seems to be MANY more steps before your coin is finally sent.

So I entered the receiving address (checked it about 8 times), and clicked the max amount. Then I click the Pay button, and a new window appears, where I can set the fee. I do that. RBF is checked. Then I click Finalize (thinking it's the last step). Another window! Sign. So I click Sign. Another window!!! With the Broadcast button now. I haven't clicked it yet. Is that it, I just click Broadcast and it's sent? Or will there be more windows and confirmations? And does everything sound kosher? 

Thanks!

[vladman]

OH SH111T!

I just did something STUPID, and I don't know if I lost all my BTC. My heart is beating so fast now, and my hands are shaking.

Whilst waiting for one of you here to reply to my last message, asking if everything was looking ok, I decided to CLOSE the last window, and not Broadcast yet, thinking I'll be able to do it once one of you has answered here.

It then said the transaction is unsaved, do I want to save it? I said yes. It then said it's saved offline or something, and that I'll have to broadcast it if I want the network to see it. Ok.

So then I'm back in the main Electrum window, in the Send tab, and I see my transaction listed in the window below, and it says Paid, and has a green tick next to it. This alarms me, as I didn't think I sent it yet, and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing means that I have. So I right-click it, meaning to click details, but click DELETE by mistake, and it's gone!!! No undo (ctrl+z).

I'm praying and hoping it's nothing, and I've just deleted an unbroadcast transaction, and that I haven't lost my BTC irretrievably.

Now, in the History tab in my Electrum, it's a little weird. In the very bottom of the window, it's still showing my full amount of BTC, but in the list of transactions, the most recent one is the one I fudged, says Local [rbf, my fee], then description, then full amount I was going to send, with a minus in front (negative amount), and 0 under balance.

So I'm not sure what's happened, and what I'm looking at. Like I said the bottom left of Electrum is still showing my full balance.

Do I just create the whole transaction again?? And then hit Pay, then Finalize, then Sign, then Broadcast? Or have I fu**ed it all up somehow???

Thank you.

EDIT: If I right-click the Local [rbf, my fee] entry in the History tab, and click View Transaction, I seem to be back at the window, with all the details of my transaction, and the Broadcast button. Is that it? I just hit Broadcast, and it should all be ok?

[Chikito]

Then I click the Pay button, and a new window appears, where I can set the fee. I do that. RBF is checked. Then I click Finalize (thinking it's the last step). Another window! Sign. So I click Sign. Another window!!! With the Broadcast button now. I haven't clicked it yet. Is that it, I just click Broadcast and it's sent? Or will there be more windows and confirmations? And does everything sound kosher?  

If you didn't click advance and set fee by default your payment will be sent directly. But if you click advance then another step like you said, so if you click broadcast your payment will be sent!. no other windows, only tx id appears.

OH SH111T!

I just did something STUPID, and I don't know if I lost all my BTC. My heart is beating so fast now, and my hands are shaking.

Whilst waiting for one of you here to reply to my last message, asking if everything was looking ok, I decided to CLOSE the last window, and not Broadcast yet, thinking I'll be able to do it once one of you has answered here.

It then said the transaction is unsaved, do I want to save it? I said yes. It then said it's saved offline or something, and that I'll have to broadcast it if I want the network to see it. Ok.

So then I'm back in the main Electrum window, in the Send tab, and I see my transaction listed in the window below, and it says Paid, and has a green tick next to it. This alarms me, as I didn't think I sent it yet, and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing means that I have. So I right-click it, meaning to click details, but click DELETE by mistake, and it's gone!!! No undo (ctrl+z).

I'm praying and hoping it's nothing, and I've just deleted an unbroadcast transaction, and that I haven't lost my BTC irretrievably.

Now, in the History tab in my Electrum, it's a little weird. In the very bottom of the window, it's still showing my full amount of BTC, but in the list of transactions, the most recent one is the one I fudged, says Local [rbf, my fee], then description, then full amount I was going to send, with a minus in front (negative amount), and 0 under balance.

So I'm not sure what's happened, and what I'm looking at. Like I said the bottom left of Electrum is still showing my full balance.

Do I just create the whole transaction again?? And then hit Pay, then Finalize, then Sign, then Broadcast? Or have I fu**ed it all up somehow???

Thank you.

EDIT: If I right-click the Local [rbf, my fee] entry in the History tab, and click View Transaction, I seem to be back at the window, with all the details of my transaction, and the Broadcast button. Is that it? I just hit Broadcast, and it should all be ok?

you don't lost anything if you didn't broadcast it.

you don't need create transaction again, just right click ongoing payment, then click pay.

[vladman]

If you didn't click advance and set fee by default your payment will be sent directly. But if you click advance then another step like you said, so if you click broadcast your payment will be sent!. no other windows, only tx id appears.

Hi, firstly, THANK YOU.

I'm not sure what you mean by clicking "advance". I don't remember clicking anything like that. I did manually adjust the fee though.

you don't lost anything if you didn't broadcast it.

you don't need create transaction again, just right click ongoing payment, then click pay.

I guess you're saying that I do what I wrote in the EDIT of that previous post. I can right-click that transaction in the History tab in Electrum, then click View Transaction, and the window with the transaction details and the Broadcast button appears, and I can just click it?

What confuses me here is that there seems to be two places Electrum shows history (previous) transactions. One under the Send tab, where by mistake I deleted it, but also under History, where I can (thankfully) still see it.

And also, the Delete and Details being adjacent in the right-click menu!!!! So easy to click the wrong one by mistake! 

[Chikito]

If you didn't click advance and set fee by default your payment will be sent directly. But if you click advance then another step like you said, so if you click broadcast your payment will be sent!. no other windows, only tx id appears.

Hi, firstly, THANK YOU.

I'm not sure what you mean by clicking "advance". I don't remember clicking anything like that. I did manually adjust the fee though.

here: advance

I guess you're saying that I do what I wrote in the EDIT of that previous post. I can right-click that transaction in the History tab in Electrum, then click View Transaction, and the window with the transaction details and the Broadcast button appears, and I can just click it?

What confuses me here is that there seems to be two places Electrum shows history (previous) transactions. One under the Send tab, where by mistake I deleted it, but also under History, where I can (thankfully) still see it.

And also, the Delete and Details being adjacent in the right-click menu!!!! So easy to click the wrong one by mistake! 

it's just deleted history mean, it doesn't delete your balance.

If your sure the payment address had correct, just click broadcast.

[vladman]

here: advance

That's strange, my Electrum looks different. I'm on version 4.0.5. Downloaded from the official site, signatures checked and verified.

Thank you again.

EDIT: I think I know what's going on. I have "Advanced" checked under Transactions, under Preferences. I guess you don't, but if you don't, and you go to send, you then get the Advanced button in the transaction details window, which gives you the Advanced options, which I have ticked to always see.

Ok, I'll broadcast, and pray! 

[bob123]

OH SH111T!

I just did something STUPID, and I don't know if I lost all my BTC. My heart is beating so fast now, and my hands are shaking.
[...]
I'm praying and hoping it's nothing, and I've just deleted an unbroadcast transaction, and that I haven't lost my BTC irretrievably.

You should really first learn how bitcoin actually works.

The coins are not stored inside of your wallet.
The coins are assigned to your public key on the blockchain. Your wallet holds the private keys.

As long as you have access to your private keys (by having a backup of your mnemonic code), you won't lose access to your coins.
When you somehow fail to send a transaction, the coins can not be lost. They either are assigned to your public key or if you send a transaction, they will be assigned to the recipients public key. There is no in-between. There is no "limbo".

[vladman]

You should really first learn how bitcoin actually works.

The coins are not stored inside of your wallet.
The coins are assigned to your public key on the blockchain. Your wallet holds the private keys.

As long as you have access to your private keys (by having a backup of your mnemonic code), you won't lose access to your coins.
When you somehow fail to send a transaction, the coins can not be lost. They either are assigned to your public key or if you send a transaction, they will be assigned to the recipients public key. There is no in-between. There is no "limbo".

I do understand all that. Still, because I'm aware how a lot of people lose access to their coins, be it due to their own mistakes, or by being hacked, I was extra paranoid, and then still managed to do something stupid myself , although, thankfully, not catastrophic. In the moment immediately after accidentally deleting my transaction, and in my heightened state, I really reacted viscerally, and needing some kind of reassurance I posted here.

I'm very thankful to you and others here who have contributed and helped me along the way.

Right now, I'm still waiting for the transaction to confirm...

Thanks again.

[vladman]

It took about 5 days, and the transaction has now confirmed. Thank you ALL for all your help here, it's been invaluable!

Now, I'll try and claim the BCH and maybe a few other forks too.

Thanks again, and merry Xmas (those that celebrate)!

[vladman]

Hi guys, happy new year to everyone!

I haven't yet had a go at claiming my BCH and I want to try it now.

I'm following the inscructions from this guide (which is from 2017, so potentially out of date, but I wasn't able to find a newer guide). https://medium.com/@itsjameswhite/how-to-claim-bitcoin-cash-from-electrum-to-an-spv-wallet-111c65c5a131

I'm getting stuck at the step 4, panel 5. I'm supposed to copy and paste the private keys from the previously exported private keys file from Electrum. So I copy and paste some addresses, but the button to proceed (Next) remains grayed out, and I am unable to proceed.

However, even though I've never attempted this before, my understanding of the process was that I would create the wallet in Electron Cash by importing my seed (the 12 words) from the Electrum wallet, which contained my BTC before I sent it all to my Ledger Nano S.

So now I'm confused, and not sure how to proceed. Are the instructions in that guide wrong?

I did find another thread on this forum where someone was having the same issue as me, and was indeed advised (by @TryNinja) to create a new wallet in Electron Cash and import his seed instead of copying and pasting the private keys (here's that thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2555007.0), but I'd be really very grateful if someone here could confirm this (as that thread is also 3 years old), and/or clarify exactly what needs to be done.

To summarise, what I'm trying to do, is claim the balance of my BCH, and make it show in the Electron Cash wallet. The next step would then be to split that BCH balance, and claim BSV, but I'm not there yet.

Many thanks as always.

[Lucius]

There is no need to complicate the process with private keys, and all you really need is to enter your seed, and you will get an identical copy of all your addresses/private keys from the Bitcoin blockchain to the BCH chain. When the wallet is synchronized you will have access to the BCH, but before you make any outgoing transaction you need to take care of the split so that you can get the BSV as well.

Let someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the simplest way to do that would be to send any amount of BCH in ElectronCash, which should make two chains split.

[LoyceV]

I'm supposed to copy and paste the private keys from the previously exported private keys file from Electrum. So I copy and paste some addresses, but the button to proceed (Next) remains grayed out, and I am unable to proceed.

This probably means the address (or private key) is incorrect. If it's correct, you can click Next.

However, even though I've never attempted this before, my understanding of the process was that I would create the wallet in Electron Cash by importing my seed (the 12 words) from the Electrum wallet, which contained my BTC before I sent it all to my Ledger Nano S.

You can: just create a new Standard wallet in Electron Cash, and click "I already have a seed". Unless you used 2FA on Electrum, in that case it becomes slightly more difficult.

If you post any of your BCH addresses, I'll dust it so you don't replay your BSV/BCH-A Forkcoins. Just to be sure: you'll need to include my BCH-dust in the transaction you're going to send.

[vladman]

Thanks @Lucius and @LoyceV.

I'm sure the private keys were correct, as I used copy and paste, and was very careful throughout the entire process (and also, I found others had the same problem, not just in this forum, but also in the comments of the guide).

However, it seems the consensus is that it's unnecessary to bother doing it that way anyway, and that I can import the seed, just as I always thought. Just wonder why that guide recommends doing it with private keys, when that's much more fiddly... 

I'll give importing the seed a go, and report back.

Thanks for the help.