Bitcoin is 88% premine to kids born today 100% to kids born in 2142

[Pizzalover420]

Interesting take on bitcoin.

What you are trying to say is,

Just like how today's zoomers dislike any boomer assets (gold, FIAT, stocks etc) and buying crypto;

Tomorrow's zoomers will dislike today's hot investments (crypto) and will find something else to invest.

Makes sense.

But if nobody buys somebody else's bags and everybody tries to sell their bags to somebody else...

What then?

This is bitcoins future to zoomers bud.
https://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/489940/STG-44%20%7C%20Shroud%20Signed

[Sithara007]

The calculation is wrong.

The OP assumes that mining reward includes only the block reward (i.e BTC6.25 per block). But that is not the case, as it includes the fee reward as well. In short:

Mining reward = Block reward (BTC6.25) + fee reward (BTC0.20-BTC2.00)

So the "premine" amount is definitely not 88% and it is much lower. It is impossible to accurately measure this metric, as we can't predict the future fee levels. But as more and more people use Bitcoin, the fee reward will go up and eventually it will constitute for the majority of the mining reward.

[Pizzalover420]

The calculation is wrong.

The OP assumes that mining reward includes only the block reward (i.e BTC6.25 per block). But that is not the case, as it includes the fee reward as well. In short:

Mining reward = Block reward (BTC6.25) + fee reward (BTC0.20-BTC2.00)

So the "premine" amount is definitely not 88% and it is much lower. It is impossible to accurately measure this metric, as we can't predict the future fee levels. But as more and more people use Bitcoin, the fee reward will go up and eventually it will constitute for the majority of the mining reward.

The calculation is simple
You can have some creating the supply or you can have all creating the supply
So what do you want? be a slave to a central banker, or create the supply yourself?

Fee reward could be used to fund space exploration, roads, healthcare, public pools, parks and other things not just pay miners to do retarded hashes.

No, it`s 100% premined in 2142 to kids born that year and what if there is no transactions for a fee reward? seems most transactions happen off chain anyways.

[mindrust]

I have been arguing about this, however, it only falls on deaf ears. Many of us are certainly in denial or do not understand, I reckon.

This might be the moment for everyone to begin to read on cryptocoins and monetary policies. This one by Grin has certainly opened my mind that there might be other solutions.

https://github.com/mimblewimble/docs/wiki/Monetary-Policy

Grin doesn't solve that at all.

The problem isn't the monetary policy or the financial system.

The problem is the people.

Every new generation wants a fresh start and free money and want to ignore anything that happened before them.

In this case, by the year 2050, there would be shitton of Grin floating around.

They would rather create another and be the early investors instead of joining the GRIN ecosystem.  

It is a different story if you are implying that there will be so many GRIN's and it will be near worthless just like FIAT so everybody will be using it without second thoughts. (doge does it already btw) Even then what really counts is how much share you own from the total money supply and having enormous inflation would still bring the same end result as FIAT did > you'll be poor and will have greater chances of becoming rich with starting your own new thing.

[davis196]

Why not make a currency that everyone mines at the same rate upon creation of supply?
1 hour coin an hour or 1 second coin a second distributed to unique addresses. For the addresses you use a HMID, human id, fingerprint, iris, dna or heartbeat. You don`t even have to give up your name or address.

1.A cryptocurrency which is easy to be mined by lots of people will be pretty much worthless.
Mining costs are an important part of the overall value of Bitcoin.If it was really easy to mine Bitcoins,then would you even care about buying BTC?I don't think so.
2.All the "biorecognition" technology is still at a very early stage.Maybe in the future,people will use their iris,DNA or fingerprints to pay for goods,instead of wallets and addresses,but not today.
I don't get your point about Bitcoin being "88% premined to kids born today".Can you explain more?

[DooMAD]

I been going on about this for 12 years

And this topic is the best you could do?  If this is what 12 years of knowledge and understanding looks like, we're all going to be long dead before you get your coin off the drawing board.  Be honest, you clearly haven't been following Bitcoin for that long.  You'd be better informed than this.

Then first show us how you're going to secure it without mining.  It all sounds very noble, but it's also a fantasy.  If it was as easy as you make it sound, someone smart would have done it already.  There are some extraordinary intellects in the crypto community, who after more than a decade still haven't found a way to make a rival cryptocurrency which people desire more than Bitcoin.  There are obstacles you haven't recognised yet that are barriers to your success.  Those of us who have been around a while have seen it all before.  Everyone wants to believe they can do better, but they don't understand how it even works yet.  I can't help but say what you're proposing sounds a little naive.

It is naive to accept a supply you don`t mine at the same rate as the one you are trading with.  Nah, it`s just plain stupid.

I'm just injecting a healthy dose of realism into the discussion.  The conversation may have gone better if you had come to us with an actual solution rather than just vague, idealistic wishful thinking.  You've made it clear what you think is wrong, but you have absolutely no idea how to do it right.  Everything you want to change has consequences. You appear to be completely oblivious to that fact.

It's definitely possible to have a coin with a fair distribution, but if you focus on that one aspect to the exclusion of all else, it's going to be a shitcoin.  I've witnessed a thousand of them and I don't see anything different about you that convinces me you can do any better.

Sorry.  You're just not that persuasive.

[20kevin20]

Yes the gold that is already mined is premined to kids not born yet. I would say it is premined because it is owned by someone else and you have to buy it from them.

What do over 60% of the people already live off of, welfare and disability. Imagine a global time faucet if you will. Instead of governments giving handouts a system does. Why let a few create the supply over everyone?

Here's what would happen if everything in your plan went as you imagined: I'd get a coin every heartbeat (or second) and at one point, I'll be giving it to someone else for something in exchange (food? money?). Someone, will wake up one day and say "hey, I want to do business with this coin!" and start selling goods to a bunch of people for your coins. In the end, you and a few dozen/hundred/thousand others will pay that guy and wealth inequality will still exist.

To have a fairly distributed supply means not allowing businesses or individuals to try hoarding coins. That means either everyone will have to reject the existence of exchanges as well or your coin will be centralized and never allow hoarding and exchanges to exist. And the latter means censorship or, if each of us should keep their own coins without ever selling/moving them, the coins would have zero value because they'd be useless. If a coin of yours is worth $1 and a multi-millionaires believe there's insane potential for investment, they may purchase a million coins from multiple people. Inequality. We'd only get back to your previous "crypto - fiat" link.

No matter how you take it, the human greed will never let fairness exist. Otherwise, today we'd be living in an utopian world. We could, but at one point there will still be someone who'll want to be in advantage against others and there goes the fairness you've been trying to form.

[KIZILAGA]

 it is mined 15 million coins in 2 years, makes the total supply %70 mined with early ones. So few mined makes it premine,instamine..Whatever you call it. it is not FAİR.

 Satoshi Nakamto didnt invent Bitcoin for those early nazi-maxis to be the new rich elite,block and badmouth every developer and project than bitcoin.

  i am sure Satoshi has a surprise for them.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Why should that matter to the vast majority of the Bitcoin users? Less than 1% may have tried their luck with mining Bitcoins. So at least for people like me, it doesn't matter whether the premine is 88%, 98% or even 100%. We are fine with such high premine levels. The miners can whine as much as they want, but the algorithm is not going to change. They needs to be satisfied with whatever reward they are getting right now.

[cr1776]

1. Fiat is not a "premine" - they are inflating it away (e.g. printing more) every year.
2. Bitcoin has a fixed total number, fiat does not.
3. "I will...".  Who put you in charge?  With bitcoin, unlike your "I will" coin and fiat, the math is in charge.
4. While I think space exploration is important, who made you god to decide that everyone else should pay for your (or my) choices?  Other people may make different choices.

1. It is 100% premine, it is not distributed to all participants of the nation upon creation.
2. So?
3. I would have 1 vote in the system, I will create it, math will be in charge.
4. The voters vote on where the pooled network fee`s are spent, I`m 1 vote.

You don't know what "premine" means.  It is as if I said "I want to rob X" and I defined "rob" as give some cookies to X when everyone else understands it is taking them.  It helps to understand the terms.

1.  It is distributed to favored groups every year by inflating the value away to pay for things.  Somewhere between 3% and 1,000,000% depending on the nation.  
2. So fiat is therefore not a premise since they print more every year and distribute it.
3. Good luck with that.
4. So you change what you said, okay.

Sounds like someone is butt hurt they were too busy doing something else and only found bitcoin.

[cr1776]

Why not make a currency that everyone mines at the same rate upon creation of supply?
1 hour coin an hour or 1 second coin a second distributed to unique addresses. For the addresses you use a HMID, human id, fingerprint, iris, dna or heartbeat. You don`t even have to give up your name or address.

1.A cryptocurrency which is easy to be mined by lots of people will be pretty much worthless.
Mining costs are an important part of the overall value of Bitcoin.If it was really easy to mine Bitcoins,then would you even care about buying BTC?I don't think so.
2.All the "biorecognition" technology is still at a very early stage.Maybe in the future,people will use their iris,DNA or fingerprints to pay for goods,instead of wallets and addresses,but not today.
I don't get your point about Bitcoin being "88% premined to kids born today".Can you explain more?

And as soon as this "bio recognition" stuff gets going, someone will use CRISPR or something to slightly alter some genes and get a double or 1000 x helping.

[cr1776]

 it is mined 15 million coins in 2 years, makes the total supply %70 mined with early ones. So few mined makes it premine,instamine..Whatever you call it. it is not FAİR.

 Satoshi Nakamto didnt invent Bitcoin for those early nazi-maxis to be the new rich elite,block and badmouth every developer and project than bitcoin.

  i am sure Satoshi has a surprise for them.

What coin are you talking about that mined 15 millions coins in 2 years?  It certainly wasn't bitcoin, the 15 millionth coin was mined in 2015-2016 so 6-7 years after the genesis block.  If you want to have an intelligent discussion, you need to at least be informed.

Please define "fair".  Fair that the people who spent their time on bitcoin mined early?  Fair that people mined it because it was an interesting project that is still in beta and had no guarantee of success?  Fair that the people who paid attention and were able to understand the white paper did so?  

"It is not fair" sounds like a 3 year old complaining.  

[Pizzalover420]

It`s not a hard concept guys.

FIAT - Private family's create all the cash aka Rothschild.
BITCOIN - People with fiat create all the cash (still slaves to fiat creators)
NEW COIN - Everyone creates the cash. (if the bankers buy it, everyone wins)

Why the fuck would you want bitcoin when the guys that make fiat will still enslave you.

1 bitcoin could be worth 1 million USD, the central bankers can still buy all of it for free.
In the end it will be a central banker probably a rothschild that owns the biggest mining farm, he we collect all the coins through network fee`s and you will still be a slave to him.

[Pizzalover420]

Do you think bitcoin will live that long? I very much doubt it.

No I don`t either, it will look like this market https://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/489940/STG-44%20%7C%20Shroud%20Signed
People selling for $1800-250 and 2 bids at $20
That is what a dead market looks like.

It will become outdated, people will opt to a supply they create, a fairly generated one over slaving for rothschild`s or satoshi`s.

My coin will replace fiat, not be a measure of it, it will replace bitcoin to.

You can all doubt me, but I will be the one that actually unenslaves you and your family, your fiat bitcoin gains only mask your slavery.

You think bitcoin is good because it makes you more fiat but in reality fiat is worth nothing, backed by nothing and enslaves you to another man, to give up your limited goods, time and services for a unlimited supply of $hit.

They say bitcoin is like digital gold, and tron is like digital oil, what`s next digital food? what good is digital gold and oil? it`s not.

[Pizzalover420]

And as soon as this "bio recognition" stuff gets going, someone will use CRISPR or something to slightly alter some genes and get a double or 1000 x helping.

Then they would have a new address and not be able to use the old one. Like if someone got a heart transplant, they won`t be able to use their old heart beat sound.

Heck if we used heartbeats in the voting it would stop all the dead and fake voters that have been rigging the elections for years.
We would be able to stop all murder, or find out who did it instantly.

[Pizzalover420]

Yes the gold that is already mined is premined to kids not born yet. I would say it is premined because it is owned by someone else and you have to buy it from them.

What do over 60% of the people already live off of, welfare and disability. Imagine a global time faucet if you will. Instead of governments giving handouts a system does. Why let a few create the supply over everyone?

Here's what would happen if everything in your plan went as you imagined: I'd get a coin every heartbeat (or second) and at one point, I'll be giving it to someone else for something in exchange (food? money?). Someone, will wake up one day and say "hey, I want to do business with this coin!" and start selling goods to a bunch of people for your coins. In the end, you and a few dozen/hundred/thousand others will pay that guy and wealth inequality will still exist.

To have a fairly distributed supply means not allowing businesses or individuals to try hoarding coins. That means either everyone will have to reject the existence of exchanges as well or your coin will be centralized and never allow hoarding and exchanges to exist. And the latter means censorship or, if each of us should keep their own coins without ever selling/moving them, the coins would have zero value because they'd be useless. If a coin of yours is worth $1 and a multi-millionaires believe there's insane potential for investment, they may purchase a million coins from multiple people. Inequality. We'd only get back to your previous "crypto - fiat" link.

No matter how you take it, the human greed will never let fairness exist. Otherwise, today we'd be living in an utopian world. We could, but at one point there will still be someone who'll want to be in advantage against others and there goes the fairness you've been trying to form.

It is fine for people to earn more coins than others by working. I encourage it.
It is not fine for people to generate supply more than others.

[Pizzalover420]

Why not make a currency that everyone mines at the same rate upon creation of supply?
1 hour coin an hour or 1 second coin a second distributed to unique addresses. For the addresses you use a HMID, human id, fingerprint, iris, dna or heartbeat. You don`t even have to give up your name or address.

1.A cryptocurrency which is easy to be mined by lots of people will be pretty much worthless.
Mining costs are an important part of the overall value of Bitcoin.If it was really easy to mine Bitcoins,then would you even care about buying BTC?I don't think so.
2.All the "biorecognition" technology is still at a very early stage.Maybe in the future,people will use their iris,DNA or fingerprints to pay for goods,instead of wallets and addresses,but not today.
I don't get your point about Bitcoin being "88% premined to kids born today".Can you explain more?

1. Actually I got a farm and the coin will always have a worth. I will accept it for my fruits and veggies any day of the week.
You are still stuck in fiat land with your fiat mining cost. No need to be a fiat slave anymore.

2. It will happen within the next 10 years.
Supply is 88% mined today, If I am born today I am born into a 88% premine, soon to be 100%.

[BitcoinFX]

It`s not a hard concept guys.

FIAT - Private family's create all the cash aka Rothschild.
BITCOIN - People with fiat create all the cash (still slaves to fiat creators)
NEW COIN - Everyone creates the cash. (if the bankers buy it, everyone wins)

Why the fuck would you want bitcoin when the guys that make fiat will still enslave you.

1 bitcoin could be worth 1 million USD, the central bankers can still buy all of it for free.
In the end it will be a central banker probably a rothschild that owns the biggest mining farm, he we collect all the coins through network fee`s and you will still be a slave to him.

How do you propose to value New Coin if it is not already the de facto unit of account ?

If everyone creates a New Coin everyday, whilst the mode and means of production are still being controlled by the wealthiest in society, the New Coin majority supply will surely still end up with said "elite" over time ?

Do I require one of those RFID thingies to get my daily New Coin, because if that's the case, it's just going to have to be "everyone" except me.  

...

In Time (2011) Official HD Movie Trailer
- https://youtu.be/YRSBiTF3wNw

[HabBear]

They say bitcoin is like digital gold, and tron is like digital oil, what`s next digital food? what good is digital gold and oil? it`s not.

This is a great point. We need to stop using these analogies. They make sense to explain how cryptocurrencies can be consider an investable asset like a commodity, such as gold, silver, oil. But that's where they analogy ends. These commodities have a practical use in market consumption activities - i.e., gold is used for jewelry and electronics, oil is used to generate power, etc. Cryptocurrencies provide much different purposes in the market place and we should just start talking about them in these terms.

Bitcoin's tangible function (beyond being an investible asset) is to be currency.

Ethereum's tangible function (beyond being an investible asset) is to be a coding language and structure to create blockchain tokens.

Lumen's tangible function (beyond being an investible asset) is to facilitate financial transactions among fiat-based banks and entities around the globe.

-------

To the OP's original question - do you think all cryptocurrencies will become "dead" in 40 years? Or is it just bitcoin that you believe will become obsolete?

[Pizzalover420]

How do you propose to value New Coin if it is not already the de facto unit of account ?

If everyone creates a New Coin everyday, whilst the mode and means of production are still being controlled by the wealthiest in society, the New Coin majority supply will surely still end up with said "elite" over time ?

Do I require one of those RFID thingies to get my daily New Coin, because if that's the case, it's just going to have to be "everyone" except me.  

...

In Time (2011) Official HD Movie Trailer
- https://youtu.be/YRSBiTF3wNw

Ahh some good questions finally.

I would give the new coin value with my farm, kind of like the first bitcoin pizza deal. A universal base wage of 1 hour coin an hour. If 1 hour in Canada min wage is $15, I would sell a basket of cherries for 1 hour coin.

At least it would be a fair ladder to climb. It is fine for people to work and make more.

No, you simply walk into the account sign up place that is being livestreamed to the blockchain, it scans your heartbeat  and gives you like a credit card that you pick a pin for. If your metric has already been used, it won`t give you a card. If you are trying to use  a fake heartbeat, the machine will scan two in the room and not make a account either.