2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar - UEFA Qualifiers

[joker_josue]

FIFA has already conducted an enquiry on this and has ruled that Byron Castillo is an Ecuadorian citizen. And as far as I know, whether he was born in Colombia or Ecuador should not matter, in case his Ecuadorian nationality is unchallenged. Naturalized citizens are allowed to participate in the FIFA world cup. I know that Chile football association is trying hard to get Ecuador disqualified. They should be ashamed of themselves. First they can't secure a qualification spot from the CONMEBOL. And now they are trying to get one of the qualified teams suspended.

The problem is not where the player was born and his neutralization in another country. And FIFA accepts neutralized players if he has never played in the A team of another national team. The question here is whether he deceived the authorities and in turn FIFA, this cannot be allowed.

Now, it's still shameful if this is some behind-the-scenes move by other countries. The information made public must be evaluated and a definite decision must be taken, so that this is not always the case.

[nullama]

~snip~
I read about this issue and I wonder if this decision by FIFA will allow for Ukraine, or Italy to make a comeback for the World Cup because I’m sure that FIFA would like to replace them. Furthermore I understand that it’s a complicated situation, but I would really like to see Italy back because it’ll make the World Cup more interesting to watch, and what about other's which team would you’ll like to see be recalled back to the World Cup.

It's not really about selecting any team to join. It's basically a well defined sanction, which means the specific matches where the played was in the field will be changed to a 3 - 0 win for the other team.

If you run the numbers with all the matches the player was in the field, you end up with Chile qualifying in 4th place.

It's not that they're picking a specific team to go to the world cup instead of Ecuador (if this ends up being accepted as true by FIFA).

[Asiska02]

I know that Chile football association is trying hard to get Ecuador disqualified. They should be ashamed of themselves. First they can't secure a qualification spot from the CONMEBOL. And now they are trying to get one of the qualified teams suspended.

Isn't simply the player to be suspended if all of Chile's allegations against Ecuador prove to be true? Does it have to result in the team being eliminated from the World Cup as a whole? Has it ever happened that a qualifying team been disqualified from a competition due to false information provided to the regulatory agencies. The only thing I've heard of is that a player can play for another national team he's nationalized in only if he hasn't represented the one he claims to have been born in, and vice versa. Ecuador have come far to be disqualified now, the allegations against them should not allow such to happen them.

[fullhdpixel]

~snip~
I read about this issue and I wonder if this decision by FIFA will allow for Ukraine, or Italy to make a comeback for the World Cup because I’m sure that FIFA would like to replace them. Furthermore I understand that it’s a complicated situation, but I would really like to see Italy back because it’ll make the World Cup more interesting to watch, and what about other's which team would you’ll like to see be recalled back to the World Cup.

It's not really about selecting any team to join. It's basically a well defined sanction, which means the specific matches where the played was in the field will be changed to a 3 - 0 win for the other team.

If you run the numbers with all the matches the player was in the field, you end up with Chile qualifying in 4th place.

It's not that they're picking a specific team to go to the world cup instead of Ecuador (if this ends up being accepted as true by FIFA).

I agree that it shouldn't be the whole nation that gets a problem, it should be the player and that's it. Put a decision about that player not being able to play in the world cup and that would be the final of it, why would you want to ban a whole nation? I understand the want to see Italy because they were so good so recently and suddenly they are not even in, but to get a Latin American team and then putting in a European team instead? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all.

I would prefer to see something a bit more light, this is a too much of a harsh decision to make based on something so silly, it's not a smart idea to give such a big punishment for something most nations probably do.

[nullama]

~snip~
I agree that it shouldn't be the whole nation that gets a problem, it should be the player and that's it. Put a decision about that player not being able to play in the world cup and that would be the final of it, why would you want to ban a whole nation? I understand the want to see Italy because they were so good so recently and suddenly they are not even in, but to get a Latin American team and then putting in a European team instead? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all.

I would prefer to see something a bit more light, this is a too much of a harsh decision to make based on something so silly, it's not a smart idea to give such a big punishment for something most nations probably do.

The standard procedure when things like this happen is that FIFA basically forfeits the game and gives a 3 - 0 victory to the opposing team.

Since this happened in a few matches, you need to re calculate all those points in the qualifying stage. After you do that, Ecuador ends up not qualifying and Chile takes its place.

Here's one example of exactly the same happening in 2017:

Nigeria lose 3-0 to Algeria after FIFA forfeit match as punishment for fielding ineligible player

So this can actually happen now.

[posi]

FIFA has already conducted an enquiry on this and has ruled that Byron Castillo is an Ecuadorian citizen. And as far as I know, whether he was born in Colombia or Ecuador should not matter, in case his Ecuadorian nationality is unchallenged. Naturalized citizens are allowed to participate in the FIFA world cup. I know that Chile football association is trying hard to get Ecuador disqualified. They should be ashamed of themselves. First they can't secure a qualification spot from the CONMEBOL. And now they are trying to get one of the qualified teams suspended.

The problem is not where the player was born and his neutralization in another country. And FIFA accepts neutralized players if he has never played in the A team of another national team. The question here is whether he deceived the authorities and in turn FIFA, this cannot be allowed.

Now, it's still shameful if this is some behind-the-scenes move by other countries. The information made public must be evaluated and a definite decision must be taken, so that this is not always the case.

In the first place, I believe it is unfair for a whole team or a nation to suffer punishment because of the fault of an individual. An individual has committed this shameful act, and he is the one who should be punished for it, not the entire nation as a whole. It is very unfortunate that FIFA is even considering the possibility of getting Ecuador banned from taking part in the World Cup. As far as I am concerned, it is really hurtful not only for the fans of Ecuador but also for the whole world. I just hope that Ecuador gets a chance to play in the World Cup and that only the player involved will be punished and not the entire nation as a whole.

[nullama]

~snip~
In the first place, I believe it is unfair for a whole team or a nation to suffer punishment because of the fault of an individual. An individual has committed this shameful act, and he is the one who should be punished for it, not the entire nation as a whole. It is very unfortunate that FIFA is even considering the possibility of getting Ecuador banned from taking part in the World Cup. As far as I am concerned, it is really hurtful not only for the fans of Ecuador but also for the whole world. I just hope that Ecuador gets a chance to play in the World Cup and that only the player involved will be punished and not the entire nation as a whole.

It's not really a ban. It's standard procedure in FIFA.

If a team fields an ineligible player, and FIFA finds out, they forfeit the match where the player was fielded, and the opponent is given a 3 - 0 win.

This happens all the time:

AS Roma forfeit game 3-0 after fielding ineligible player

Nigeria lose 3-0 to Algeria after FIFA forfeit match as punishment for fielding ineligible player

Fifa rules bar players from switching national teams once they have played a competitive international, and French Guiana had been informed of the rule before the tournament. The standard sanction for fielding an ineligible player is to forfeit the game 3-0

Bolivia forfeit two matches for fielding ineligible player

Equatorial Guinea sanctioned for fielding ineligible player

Greece sanctioned for fielding ineligible player in friendly. The match is declared to be lost by forfeit and awarded 3-0 in favor of Turkey, with the HFF also receiving a fine of CHF 4,000 after the FIFA Disciplinary Committee considered the HFF liable for having breached art. 55 par. 2 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code (FDC).

Yemen have forfeited their World Cup qualifier against North Korea, a match they made a Herculean effort to take part in, after fielding an ineligible player, FIFA said on Monday. Yemen, officially the home side for the match played in Qatar, lost 1-0 on the pitch on June 11. But that became a 3-0 walkover after the disciplinary committee of world soccer’s governing body ruled that they fielded Mudir Abdurabu Ali Al Radaei who should have been serving a one-match ban for an accumulation of yellow cards.

And so on.

As you see, it's a very standard procedure. If FIFA decides the Ecuadorian team fielded an ineligible player, then they will forfeit the matches in which he played, and give a 3 - 0 victory to the opponent. And if that happens, and you do the math of the qualifiers, then Chile ends up in 4th place, qualifying to the world cup, instead of Ecuador.

[Harkorede]

FIFA has already conducted an enquiry on this and has ruled that Byron Castillo is an Ecuadorian citizen. And as far as I know, whether he was born in Colombia or Ecuador should not matter, in case his Ecuadorian nationality is unchallenged. Naturalized citizens are allowed to participate in the FIFA world cup. I know that Chile football association is trying hard to get Ecuador disqualified. They should be ashamed of themselves. First they can't secure a qualification spot from the CONMEBOL. And now they are trying to get one of the qualified teams suspended.

The problem is not where the player was born and his neutralization in another country. And FIFA accepts neutralized players if he has never played in the A team of another national team. The question here is whether he deceived the authorities and in turn FIFA, this cannot be allowed.

Now, it's still shameful if this is some behind-the-scenes move by other countries. The information made public must be evaluated and a definite decision must be taken, so that this is not always the case.

In the first place, I believe it is unfair for a whole team or a nation to suffer punishment because of the fault of an individual. An individual has committed this shameful act, and he is the one who should be punished for it, not the entire nation as a whole. It is very unfortunate that FIFA is even considering the possibility of getting Ecuador banned from taking part in the World Cup. As far as I am concerned, it is really hurtful not only for the fans of Ecuador but also for the whole world. I just hope that Ecuador gets a chance to play in the World Cup and that only the player involved will be punished and not the entire nation as a whole.

The player might likely also face legal actions in Columbia and/or Ecuador over forging of documents which is crime in any country, but it's still going to be the country's FA fault for fielding an ineligible player, and it doesn't matter whether or not they were aware of the situation, it's going to be a case of ignorance not being an excuse, I remember a case of Real Madrid being kicked out of Copa Del Rey some years after field an ineligible player "Dennis Cheryshev" in that year, he was supposed to serve a one match ban while being on-loan at Villarreal the season before, and meanwhile Real Madrid claimed they weren't aware of the players suspension, but that still wasn't enough as excuse to overturn to decision from the governing body.

[Sithara007]

The player might likely also face legal actions in Columbia and/or Ecuador over forging of documents which is crime in any country, but it's still going to be the country's FA fault for fielding an ineligible player, and it doesn't matter whether or not they were aware of the situation, it's going to be a case of ignorance not being an excuse, I remember a case of Real Madrid being kicked out of Copa Del Rey some years after field an ineligible player "Dennis Cheryshev" in that year, he was supposed to serve a one match ban while being on-loan at Villarreal the season before, and meanwhile Real Madrid claimed they weren't aware of the players suspension, but that still wasn't enough as excuse to overturn to decision from the governing body.

I don't agree with you. If the player managed to hide his ineligibility, how it is going to be the association's fault? And what FIFA is doing is certainly abuse of power. In case of Denis Cheryshev, it was his fault that he didn't informed about his suspension to the new club. And instead of punishing the player, the association decided to punish the club. This is similar to national teams getting punished whenever someone does hooliganism in their home matches. Actions of one or two people can't be used to punish an entire team.

[Harkorede]

The player might likely also face legal actions in Columbia and/or Ecuador over forging of documents which is crime in any country, but it's still going to be the country's FA fault for fielding an ineligible player, and it doesn't matter whether or not they were aware of the situation, it's going to be a case of ignorance not being an excuse, I remember a case of Real Madrid being kicked out of Copa Del Rey some years after field an ineligible player "Dennis Cheryshev" in that year, he was supposed to serve a one match ban while being on-loan at Villarreal the season before, and meanwhile Real Madrid claimed they weren't aware of the players suspension, but that still wasn't enough as excuse to overturn to decision from the governing body.

I don't agree with you. If the player managed to hide his ineligibility, how it is going to be the association's fault? And what FIFA is doing is certainly abuse of power. In case of Denis Cheryshev, it was his fault that he didn't informed about his suspension to the new club. And instead of punishing the player, the association decided to punish the club. This is similar to national teams getting punished whenever someone does hooliganism in their home matches. Actions of one or two people can't be used to punish an entire team.

I agree with you that the decision can be argued to be unfair, but unlike the olympics where most of the sports are individual where a culprit can be stripped of a medal, but if it's like a basketball team player that's found doping even after several years, it's the entire team that pays the price and get stripped of their medals, but what do you think should happen ? For instance in the case of Real Madrid where Cheryshev I think even scored in that match. You really just can't void that specific goal or all his part from the entire match that has been concluded. It's always the team's responsibility that all players that are being fielded are eligible and it's FIFA responsibility to them verify these stuffs are accurate, hence the stiff penalties, I'm sure sometimes the players also get individual penalties, but how will FIFA get to know that teams/countries aren't aware of those findings but just choose to ignore simply because they're not to be affected if the truth gets out.

[nullama]

~snip~
I don't agree with you. If the player managed to hide his ineligibility, how it is going to be the association's fault? And what FIFA is doing is certainly abuse of power. In case of Denis Cheryshev, it was his fault that he didn't informed about his suspension to the new club. And instead of punishing the player, the association decided to punish the club. This is similar to national teams getting punished whenever someone does hooliganism in their home matches. Actions of one or two people can't be used to punish an entire team.

It's a pretty standard practice really. Teams get forfeited matches and given a 3 - 0 win to the opponents all the time. This is the garden variety of punishments for fielding an ineligible player. And that's what's on the table.

Now, if things end up being more serious, then there are way more serious consequences.

For example, Chile was banned for two world cups and a player banned for life for El Maracanazo. What a goalkeeper did had extremely harsh consequences for himself and the whole team.

[Sithara007]

It's a pretty standard practice really. Teams get forfeited matches and given a 3 - 0 win to the opponents all the time. This is the garden variety of punishments for fielding an ineligible player. And that's what's on the table.

Now, if things end up being more serious, then there are way more serious consequences.

For example, Chile was banned for two world cups and a player banned for life for El Maracanazo. What a goalkeeper did had extremely harsh consequences for himself and the whole team.

Anyway, rules are rules. I understand that mine or yours opinion doesn't matter and it is FIFA who holds the decision making capability. With two months to go for the tournament, I don't know whether FIFA will take the drastic step of suspending Ecuador. But for me, it will be a tragedy if they are disqualified, especially after putting up such a strong performance in the qualifiers from the toughest confederation. So if they get disqualified, then Chile will qualify and will be replacing Ecuador in Group A?

[nullama]

~snip~
Anyway, rules are rules. I understand that mine or yours opinion doesn't matter and it is FIFA who holds the decision making capability. With two months to go for the tournament, I don't know whether FIFA will take the drastic step of suspending Ecuador.

The appealing hearing is on September 15th, so we will be getting an answer to this very soon.

[Daniel91]

~snip~
Anyway, rules are rules. I understand that mine or yours opinion doesn't matter and it is FIFA who holds the decision making capability. With two months to go for the tournament, I don't know whether FIFA will take the drastic step of suspending Ecuador.

The appealing hearing is on September 15th, so we will be getting an answer to this very soon.

So, today we will know the final decision?
FIFA has not yet announced its decision, as far as I can see on their official website, but this will be a very difficult decision for them and a great precedent, because they have never, until now, expelled a national team that qualified for the World Cup from that championship by administrative decision.
Could this be the last chance for Italy to take part in the World Cup instead of Ecuador based on the FIFA national team ranking?
However, a more realistic possibility is that Chile will  replace Ecuador, as a South American team.

[nullama]

~snip~
So, today we will know the final decision?
FIFA has not yet announced its decision, as far as I can see on their official website, but this will be a very difficult decision for them and a great precedent, because they have never, until now, expelled a national team that qualified for the World Cup from that championship by administrative decision.
Could this be the last chance for Italy to take part in the World Cup instead of Ecuador based on the FIFA national team ranking?
However, a more realistic possibility is that Chile will  replace Ecuador, as a South American team.

Today the hearing is supposed to happen, that is, when people explain everything and questions are asked.

I'm not sure when the official answer will be given. That could be today or in a few days.

I don't think there's any chance that Italy or any other external team would qualify. The only possible outcome is for the matches played by Ecuador to be forfeited. In that case, Chile would classify.

[Sithara007]

Today the hearing is supposed to happen, that is, when people explain everything and questions are asked.

I'm not sure when the official answer will be given. That could be today or in a few days.

I don't think there's any chance that Italy or any other external team would qualify. The only possible outcome is for the matches played by Ecuador to be forfeited. In that case, Chile would classify.

As far as I know, it is extremely rare for the FIFA appeals committee to overturn a ruling by the FIFA disciplinary committee. And back in June 10, the disciplinary committee had ruled in favor of Ecuador. We can expect a verdict within this week itself (probably within the next 24 hours). The hearing is being conducted from Zurich by a 3-judge bench, and is done remotely. The problem is that the ruling may not be final. If either Chile or Ecuador lose, they can still make another appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

[Daniel91]

Today the hearing is supposed to happen, that is, when people explain everything and questions are asked.

I'm not sure when the official answer will be given. That could be today or in a few days.

I don't think there's any chance that Italy or any other external team would qualify. The only possible outcome is for the matches played by Ecuador to be forfeited. In that case, Chile would classify.

As far as I know, it is extremely rare for the FIFA appeals committee to overturn a ruling by the FIFA disciplinary committee. And back in June 10, the disciplinary committee had ruled in favor of Ecuador. We can expect a verdict within this week itself (probably within the next 24 hours). The hearing is being conducted from Zurich by a 3-judge bench, and is done remotely. The problem is that the ruling may not be final. If either Chile or Ecuador lose, they can still make another appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

And FIFA made the final decision on this case.
https://www.fifa.com/legal/media-releases/fifa-appeal-committee-passes-decision-on-eligibility-of-player-byron-david

''The FIFA Appeal Committee has rendered its decision on the appeals lodged by the Chilean Football Association (FFCH) and the Peruvian Football Association (FPF) against the decision issued by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee on the potential ineligibility of the player Byron David Castillo Segura with regard to his participation in eight qualifying matches of the national team of the Ecuadorian Football Association (FEF) in the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022™.

Having analysed the submissions of all parties and after a hearing had been conducted, the Appeal Committee confirmed the decision of the Disciplinary Committee to close the proceedings initiated against the FEF. Amongst other considerations, it deemed that on the basis of the documents presented, the player was to be considered as holding permanent Ecuadorian nationality in accordance with art. 5 par. 1 of the FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes.

The findings of the decision passed by the Appeal Committee were notified to the parties concerned today. The present decision remains subject to an appeal before the Court of Arbitration for Sport.''

Therefore, this decision is not yet final and Peru can still appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. However, will this final decision be made in time, before the start of the world championship in Qatar?
This is a very unpleasant situation for Ecuador because it may happen that they go to Qatar and find out a few days before the start of the World Cup that they are banned from participating in the World Cup.
The question is whether any other national team can really replace Ecuador so quickly and how much it would affect the regularity of the world championship.
What do you think?

[shogun47]

Today the hearing is supposed to happen, that is, when people explain everything and questions are asked.

I'm not sure when the official answer will be given. That could be today or in a few days.

I don't think there's any chance that Italy or any other external team would qualify. The only possible outcome is for the matches played by Ecuador to be forfeited. In that case, Chile would classify.

As far as I know, it is extremely rare for the FIFA appeals committee to overturn a ruling by the FIFA disciplinary committee. And back in June 10, the disciplinary committee had ruled in favor of Ecuador. We can expect a verdict within this week itself (probably within the next 24 hours). The hearing is being conducted from Zurich by a 3-judge bench, and is done remotely. The problem is that the ruling may not be final. If either Chile or Ecuador lose, they can still make another appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

And FIFA made the final decision on this case.
https://www.fifa.com/legal/media-releases/fifa-appeal-committee-passes-decision-on-eligibility-of-player-byron-david

''The FIFA Appeal Committee has rendered its decision on the appeals lodged by the Chilean Football Association (FFCH) and the Peruvian Football Association (FPF) against the decision issued by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee on the potential ineligibility of the player Byron David Castillo Segura with regard to his participation in eight qualifying matches of the national team of the Ecuadorian Football Association (FEF) in the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022™.

Having analysed the submissions of all parties and after a hearing had been conducted, the Appeal Committee confirmed the decision of the Disciplinary Committee to close the proceedings initiated against the FEF. Amongst other considerations, it deemed that on the basis of the documents presented, the player was to be considered as holding permanent Ecuadorian nationality in accordance with art. 5 par. 1 of the FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes.

The findings of the decision passed by the Appeal Committee were notified to the parties concerned today. The present decision remains subject to an appeal before the Court of Arbitration for Sport.''

Therefore, this decision is not yet final and Peru can still appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. However, will this final decision be made in time, before the start of the world championship in Qatar?
This is a very unpleasant situation for Ecuador because it may happen that they go to Qatar and find out a few days before the start of the World Cup that they are banned from participating in the World Cup.
The question is whether any other national team can really replace Ecuador so quickly and how much it would affect the regularity of the world championship.
What do you think?

Wow, I just read that it is about eight appearances. Usually I think these appeals also destroy sports, but rules must be rules. If we didn't have rules, we wouldn't have sports. That is the counterside. Now this is a complicated case.

Honest opinion: How would you guys decide this case given the rules that are in place?

[nullama]

~snip~
Wow, I just read that it is about eight appearances. Usually I think these appeals also destroy sports, but rules must be rules. If we didn't have rules, we wouldn't have sports. That is the counterside. Now this is a complicated case.

Honest opinion: How would you guys decide this case given the rules that are in place?

In my view it seems that the documentation provided clearly shows the player is Colombian and not Ecuadorian.

Not sure what else is there to consider though, but it looks like FIFA has decided the player is Ecuadorian.

That's the main thing though, if the player is Ecuadorian, nothing is wrong, but if he's really Colombian, then of course the standard match forfeit should be done.

Maybe the legality of the documents are not the area of FIFA to make a decision, and legal or not, it seems that the documents show he's Ecuadorian.

[posi]

~snip~
In the first place, I believe it is unfair for a whole team or a nation to suffer punishment because of the fault of an individual. An individual has committed this shameful act, and he is the one who should be punished for it, not the entire nation as a whole. It is very unfortunate that FIFA is even considering the possibility of getting Ecuador banned from taking part in the World Cup. As far as I am concerned, it is really hurtful not only for the fans of Ecuador but also for the whole world. I just hope that Ecuador gets a chance to play in the World Cup and that only the player involved will be punished and not the entire nation as a whole.

It's not really a ban. It's standard procedure in FIFA.
If a team fields an ineligible player, and FIFA finds out, they forfeit the match where the player was fielded, and the opponent is given a 3 - 0 win.

This happens all the time:

AS Roma forfeit game 3-0 after fielding ineligible player

Nigeria lose 3-0 to Algeria after FIFA forfeit match as punishment for fielding ineligible player

Fifa rules bar players from switching national teams once they have played a competitive international, and French Guiana had been informed of the rule before the tournament. The standard sanction for fielding an ineligible player is to forfeit the game 3-0

Bolivia forfeit two matches for fielding ineligible player

-snip
And so on.

As you see, it's a very standard procedure. If FIFA decides the Ecuadorian team fielded an ineligible player, then they will forfeit the matches in which he played, and give a 3 - 0 victory to the opponent. And if that happens, and you do the math of the qualifiers, then Chile ends up in 4th place, qualifying to the world cup, instead of Ecuador.

-snip

The player might likely also face legal actions in Columbia and/or Ecuador over forging of documents which is crime in any country, but it's still going to be the country's FA fault for fielding an ineligible player, and it doesn't matter whether or not they were aware of the situation, it's going to be a case of ignorance not being an excuse, I remember a case of Real Madrid being kicked out of Copa Del Rey some years after field an ineligible player "Dennis Cheryshev" in that year, he was supposed to serve a one match ban while being on-loan at Villarreal the season before, and meanwhile Real Madrid claimed they weren't aware of the players suspension, but that still wasn't enough as excuse to overturn to decision from the governing body.

@nullama
You are right, I did not know about this ruling earlier, and now that I am aware of it,
I think it makes sense to now hold the association accountable for the player's age and if he is doing anything suspicious or not, as he is the one responsible.

@Harkorede
The fact that you say that a player should be punished if he acts in any way suspicious of his age is absolutely correct,
but I find it quite sad to know that he might even be punished by his own government in his own country.
A crime is a crime, after all, no matter where it is committed.