Bitcoin Forum
December 11, 2016, 12:40:54 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Disappearing Bitcoins[Solved by updating the client]  (Read 2078 times)
BookLover
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 535


^Bitcoin Library of Congress.


View Profile
November 26, 2011, 11:02:52 PM
 #1

Today I unencrypted a wallet to send some BTC but when I booted up the client some of my BTC coins were missing. Huh

Here is the background/technical information:

I had previously used the wallet and not bothered to make a new encrypted backup because I figured I could just use the rescan function.
I only used it two or three times without making a new encrypted backup, so I doubt the key pool ran out.
The version is 0.3.15.4 beta
I did the math on the transactions and it doesn't add up.
The client is on a Windows7 computer.
I didn't create any new addresses.

I have no idea what went wrong and I hope there is a simple answer to this.

P.S. Before you ask I have all the blocks. Wink

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481416854
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481416854

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481416854
Reply with quote  #2

1481416854
Report to moderator
1481416854
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481416854

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481416854
Reply with quote  #2

1481416854
Report to moderator
JoelKatz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386


Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


View Profile WWW
November 27, 2011, 12:07:04 AM
 #2

Unless you know exactly what you're doing (or are using a deterministic wallet), you need to make a new backup of your wallet after every time you send bitcoins. Otherwise, you may not have the private keys necessary to claim the change from your previous transactions.

I am an employee of Ripple.
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
BookLover
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 535


^Bitcoin Library of Congress.


View Profile
November 27, 2011, 12:33:02 AM
 #3

I'm missing something here.  Doesn't the wallet key pool prevent this from happening unless you have over 100 transactions since you last backup??

Could you please give me your definition of a deterministic wallet?

Feel free to ask questions or give opinions, I need all the help I can get.

Stephen Gornick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2002



View Profile
November 27, 2011, 01:50:26 AM
 #4

I did the math on the transactions and it doesn't add up.

Are you saying when you add up the transactions that the client shows, they do not result in the balance that the bitcoin client shows?  Or are you saying the client isn't showing transactions that you know were made?

BookLover
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 535


^Bitcoin Library of Congress.


View Profile
November 27, 2011, 01:58:23 AM
 #5

Both Shocked

gmaxwell
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030



View Profile
November 27, 2011, 08:17:20 AM
 #6

Here is the background/technical information:

Please provide clear step by step details of what you did.  It's completely unclear to me from what you've described why you believe that your backup practices had anything to do with this. Did you delete your wallet at any step or restore from backup at any step?
BookLover
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 535


^Bitcoin Library of Congress.


View Profile
November 27, 2011, 02:38:32 PM
 #7

I copied the encrypted wallet.  Put the encrypted wallet back in the safe.  Unencrypted the copy.  Put the wallet copy in an empty client.  Sent some coins.  Wrote down how many coins were in my wallet. Deleted the copy.  A couple weeks later I got the encrypted wallet back out.  Copied the encrypted wallet again.  Put the encrypted wallet back in the safe.  Unencrypted the second copy.  Put the second wallet copy in an empty client with the rescan function.  Updated the block chain and noticed some coins were missing.

Edit: Realized I left some information out and that it could be misread.

rebel
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30


View Profile
November 27, 2011, 09:46:59 PM
 #8

I didn't create any new addresses.

Personally I think that nothing should be missing - neither transactions nor btc. Even if you did not make that frequent backups.

Please create a new address to see if the missing transactions reappear
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
November 27, 2011, 10:00:11 PM
 #9

have you made more than 100 sends since last backup? 

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
November 27, 2011, 11:00:35 PM
 #10

You created a new address every time you sent coins and automatically sent the change back to yourself. The first 100 times you did this by sending to an address that was in your backup, but eventually those run out.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
paraipan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


Firstbits: 1pirata


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2011, 12:22:08 AM
 #11

I copied the encrypted wallet.  Put the original back in the safe.  Unencrypted the copy.  Put the wallet copy in an empty client.  Sent some coins.  Deleted the copy.

try running with -rescan parameter one time using your main (original) wallet, the transactions are saved in the wallet file so if the original didn't see one of them but has the priv key from reserve then it should appear and balance updated correctly

BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
simonk83
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896


View Profile
November 28, 2011, 12:37:12 AM
 #12

Sorry to hijack, but I'm actually having a bit of an issue getting a transaction to go through.  It's only 1BTC so not a huge deal right now, but I'll be annoyed in the future if 1BTC is suddenly worth $500 or something daft Cheesy

Anyway, I have a secure version of Ubuntu that I use just for my wallet (I'm a Windows guy generally, and Linux confuses me for the most part, but I can just about find my way around Ubuntu).   So the blockchain was halfway through downloading the other day, when I decided to send 1BTC to an address.    Once the blockchain finished (took forever by the way, we really need a way around that) the transaction is unconfirmed.     On Windows it's easy enough to use the rescan option, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in Ubuntu Sad

I deleted everything aside from the wallet, and it's in the slloooooow process of downloading the blockchain again.  I'm not confident it'll confirm this time though either.

Is anyone able to tell me how I add the rescan flag to Bitcoin 0.5 in Ubuntu?   I'm not even sure how to navigate to wherever the bitcoin "executable" is located in the terminal to be honest Smiley
paraipan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


Firstbits: 1pirata


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2011, 12:55:49 AM
 #13

Sorry to hijack, but I'm actually having a bit of an issue getting a transaction to go through.  It's only 1BTC so not a huge deal right now, but I'll be annoyed in the future if 1BTC is suddenly worth $500 or something daft Cheesy

Anyway, I have a secure version of Ubuntu that I use just for my wallet (I'm a Windows guy generally, and Linux confuses me for the most part, but I can just about find my way around Ubuntu).   So the blockchain was halfway through downloading the other day, when I decided to send 1BTC to an address.    Once the blockchain finished (took forever by the way, we really need a way around that) the transaction is unconfirmed.     On Windows it's easy enough to use the rescan option, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in Ubuntu Sad

I deleted everything aside from the wallet, and it's in the slloooooow process of downloading the blockchain again.  I'm not confident it'll confirm this time though either.

Is anyone able to tell me how I add the rescan flag to Bitcoin 0.5 in Ubuntu?   I'm not even sure how to navigate to wherever the bitcoin "executable" is located in the terminal to be honest Smiley

sorry to answer the hijack Smiley if you know how to open a terminal you're already halfway there, so open one up and type "bitcoin -rescan", minimize the terminal and the client should start after taking a bit more time than usual.
When it starts you should see "lost" transactions and balance updated correctly. Close it gracefully from the menu and when you see the prompt again in the terminal window you know bitcoin has closed completely.
Now start it from your usual icon and enjoy having resolved the problems.

BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
simonk83
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896


View Profile
November 28, 2011, 01:54:50 AM
 #14

Sorry to hijack, but I'm actually having a bit of an issue getting a transaction to go through.  It's only 1BTC so not a huge deal right now, but I'll be annoyed in the future if 1BTC is suddenly worth $500 or something daft Cheesy

Anyway, I have a secure version of Ubuntu that I use just for my wallet (I'm a Windows guy generally, and Linux confuses me for the most part, but I can just about find my way around Ubuntu).   So the blockchain was halfway through downloading the other day, when I decided to send 1BTC to an address.    Once the blockchain finished (took forever by the way, we really need a way around that) the transaction is unconfirmed.     On Windows it's easy enough to use the rescan option, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in Ubuntu Sad

I deleted everything aside from the wallet, and it's in the slloooooow process of downloading the blockchain again.  I'm not confident it'll confirm this time though either.

Is anyone able to tell me how I add the rescan flag to Bitcoin 0.5 in Ubuntu?   I'm not even sure how to navigate to wherever the bitcoin "executable" is located in the terminal to be honest Smiley

sorry to answer the hijack Smiley if you know how to open a terminal you're already halfway there, so open one up and type "bitcoin -rescan", minimize the terminal and the client should start after taking a bit more time than usual.
When it starts you should see "lost" transactions and balance updated correctly. Close it gracefully from the menu and when you see the prompt again in the terminal window you know bitcoin has closed completely.
Now start it from your usual icon and enjoy having resolved the problems.

Thanks Para.  So there's no need to navigate to the bitcoin directory?  Is Linux smart enough to just understand the Bitcoin entry no matter where I type it in a terminal?
paraipan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


Firstbits: 1pirata


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2011, 02:29:44 AM
 #15

Sorry to hijack, but I'm actually having a bit of an issue getting a transaction to go through.  It's only 1BTC so not a huge deal right now, but I'll be annoyed in the future if 1BTC is suddenly worth $500 or something daft Cheesy

Anyway, I have a secure version of Ubuntu that I use just for my wallet (I'm a Windows guy generally, and Linux confuses me for the most part, but I can just about find my way around Ubuntu).   So the blockchain was halfway through downloading the other day, when I decided to send 1BTC to an address.    Once the blockchain finished (took forever by the way, we really need a way around that) the transaction is unconfirmed.     On Windows it's easy enough to use the rescan option, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in Ubuntu Sad

I deleted everything aside from the wallet, and it's in the slloooooow process of downloading the blockchain again.  I'm not confident it'll confirm this time though either.

Is anyone able to tell me how I add the rescan flag to Bitcoin 0.5 in Ubuntu?   I'm not even sure how to navigate to wherever the bitcoin "executable" is located in the terminal to be honest Smiley

sorry to answer the hijack Smiley if you know how to open a terminal you're already halfway there, so open one up and type "bitcoin -rescan", minimize the terminal and the client should start after taking a bit more time than usual.
When it starts you should see "lost" transactions and balance updated correctly. Close it gracefully from the menu and when you see the prompt again in the terminal window you know bitcoin has closed completely.
Now start it from your usual icon and enjoy having resolved the problems.

Thanks Para.  So there's no need to navigate to the bitcoin directory?  Is Linux smart enough to just understand the Bitcoin entry no matter where I type it in a terminal?

actually yes, but only if you installed bitcoin from an ubuntu ppa (repository) through a packet manager (apt-get for ex.). If you compiled bitcoin for yourself or downloaded an already made binary you will have to navigate to that dir before launching. To fix that just copy the binary file to "/usr/bin" and you should be able to launch it anywhere.

BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
Revalin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g


View Profile
November 28, 2011, 02:51:18 AM
 #16

If you have Bitcoin on your desktop, do "cd Desktop", then "cd whatever your bitcoin dir is", then "./bitcoin -rescan".

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
simonk83
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896


View Profile
November 28, 2011, 03:39:19 AM
 #17

Thanks guys, I'll try that when I get home.   
JoelKatz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386


Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2011, 06:13:45 AM
 #18

I'm missing something here.  Doesn't the wallet key pool prevent this from happening unless you have over 100 transactions since you last backup??
Yes, if the pool isn't empty. But if you've never sent any bitcoins, the pool will be empty. (The client creates 100 *extra* keys when it creates a key for a transaction.) Because these rules are complicated to understand and easy to get wrong, I make my advice clear and simple -- unless you understand the rules exactly, always backup your wallet after sending.

Quote
Could you please give me your definition of a deterministic wallet?
A deterministic wallet is a wallet that generates new keys in a way that is repeatable, rather than creating random new keys. With a deterministic wallet, there is no need to back it up after sending because the new keys it would generate can always be regenerated based solely on the previous wallet.

I am an employee of Ripple.
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
gmaxwell
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030



View Profile
November 28, 2011, 06:17:14 AM
 #19

I'm missing something here.  Doesn't the wallet key pool prevent this from happening unless you have over 100 transactions since you last backup??
Yes, if the pool isn't empty. But if you've never sent any bitcoins, the pool will be empty.

That was never true, at least not since there was a pool—prior to 0.3.23 the pool remained empty until you hit the getaddress button for the first time. Since then, however bitcoin fills the pool instantly on startup even if you've never gotten an address out of it.
gmaxwell
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030



View Profile
November 28, 2011, 06:20:58 AM
 #20

I copied the encrypted wallet.  Put the original back in the safe.  Unencrypted the copy.  Put the wallet copy in an empty client.  Sent some coins.  Deleted the copy.

Are you able to find the transaction for the coins you sent in block explorer? (I don't need to see it, but if you can find it we can check to see if you have the keys for the account used to collect the change from that transaction).

Also, as others asked— how many times did you send+ hit getnewaddress since you made the encrypted copy?  A few or potentially as many as 100?
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!